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(The Hill)   In which a Billionaire's lackey explains why giving the poors a universal basic income would DESTROY America and all that we love and hold dear   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Fail, President of the United States, United States, Federal government of the United States, Washington, D.C., Unemployment, United States Congress, U.S. state, United States Constitution  
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2501 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2020 at 3:24 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-12 2:59:43 PM  
I have matches.
 
2020-05-12 3:01:11 PM  
Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

Would you not work if you were receiving UBI?  No, you *would* work even if you were receiving UBI?  Then fark off with that, arrogant prick.
 
2020-05-12 3:02:41 PM  
I mean it is a Libertarian idea. I thought the GOP was full of Libertarians.
 
2020-05-12 3:06:23 PM  
wages slaves go byebye?
 
2020-05-12 3:09:10 PM  

arrogantbastich: wages slaves go byebye?


...but... stonks for the stonks throne! ...whimpers...
 
2020-05-12 3:15:03 PM  
Then let's do it!

I mean, Trump's voters elected him to blow up the system. Drain the swamp. Make America Great Again. He failed. So why not try something totally different. Why not help the people for a change.

Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

1. Did he say that?
2. Would we become a Democracy?
3. Who is the Heartland Institute and why does it sound like a Koch Brother organization?
 
2020-05-12 3:15:55 PM  
Let's compromise. 30K per year per person from the government, abolish minimum wage. Deal?
 
2020-05-12 3:16:23 PM  
We could uncap the social security wage base and implement a 7.65% healthcare tax on employees and a 15.3% employer tax and: 1) fully fund social security; 2) fully fund M4A, and; 3) service all the interest on our debt.

There is no way on earth we could pay every man woman and child in this country even $500/mo without collecting $2T in incomes taxes, which is a tall order given that the feds don't even collect that in total income taxes currently.

You want UBI?  Ok, seems like a good idea.  How you gonna pay for it? Because if your answer is "tax the ultra wealthy," even if we took every penny the 1% makes over $1mm/year we wouldn't come up with 1/2 of the necessary taxation to pay for the program.  And, if your argument is that everybody will be in the boat, it's a farce to think we could pay for UBI by taxing families making less than $100k annually in any substantive amount.

$2k/mo is risable.  Divert all safety net programs to UBI, tax 100% of income > $1mm/year, and soak the corporations and you're not even close.

Just stop it.  There's plenty of ways to rebuild the social safety net without selling people bullshiat we can't afford to do.
 
2020-05-12 3:16:51 PM  
In other words, Americans ought to stay home and get "paid" by the U.S. government.

Refreshing to see opposition to all forms of passive income.
 
2020-05-12 3:20:58 PM  
Moreover, the Green New Deal - a wish list for the far left - contains a UBI to provide "economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work." Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

The GND does not say this, a leaked memo did. Buuuuut what is meant by "those who are unable or unwilling to work" is, for example, a 59 year old coal miner. Dude ain't going to learn to code, no matter how optimistic neoliberal dipsh*ts are. He's put in decades of back-breaking work, likely has chronic health problems -- let's provide him a bridge to retirement. Recognize his lifetime of labor and let him retire with some dignity.
 
2020-05-12 3:26:12 PM  
ih1.redbubble.netView Full Size
 
2020-05-12 3:26:18 PM  
TLDR; we only want white people to have free money.
 
2020-05-12 3:27:18 PM  
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

I love when the rich bring that up, when that's exactly what they've been doing is Reagan.

And here we are...
 
2020-05-12 3:27:51 PM  
Since Reagan...

/ i need a proofreader person
 
2020-05-12 3:29:51 PM  
I say let's go back to the "Good old days" of American exceptionalism.
You know the idealist past where America led the world in Auto ownership, new housing sales, science and medicine..and a space program that could put a man on the moon.
Let's go back to those days....and The top marginal tax rate in 1960 was 91%, which applied to income over $200,000
 
2020-05-12 3:30:43 PM  
America is already destroyed, it happened after workers fought for the 5 day work week and weekend, and the 8-8-8 hour day.

After that all businesses in America failed and she never recovered from such a devastating blow.  It happens any time the working gets more benefits, all the businesses in America collapse into financial ruin and destitution.  Look at all the countries around the world with socialized medical care, each and every one is a wasteland of poverty with the people fleeing to other wealthy countries where jobs are plentiful, places where you can make pennies on the dollar with no benefits and all the wealth just trickles down, truly, lands of prosperity, where everyone is rich and happy.
 
2020-05-12 3:31:20 PM  
FARK CHRIS TALGO

He is why the term pencil necked geek was coined.

That's what the older boys told me.
 
2020-05-12 3:31:32 PM  
In fact, several provisional measures and programs enacted during the Great Depression are still in place today.

Never forget, these assholes would abolish the Regular New Deal in a second if they thought they could get away with it.
 
2020-05-12 3:31:49 PM  
Interesting that he brings up the Great Depression, bc that introduced several measures that were totally impossible and that would wreck the economy forever, such as govt running a deficit, financed by borrowing.

Crises change what is 'possible'
 
2020-05-12 3:33:30 PM  
The only countries that I can think of that pay stipends to their citizens are Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look into it, but lets not ignore the strings that might be attached to that check.
 
2020-05-12 3:33:41 PM  
Writer is afraid the left want to use this opportunity to set up social programs.
I'm failing to see the problem. This guy gets paid for this shiat?
He spent zero time trying to convince anyone why this is bad. Just multiple paragraphs of "whaaaaaaa".
 
2020-05-12 3:33:48 PM  
Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

See?  Benjamin Franklin.  He never said that when the rich people, lawyers and lobbyists can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

So it's okay that tax breaks and tax loopholes and other measures are repeatedly put into place to shrink the middle class, enrich the already wealthy and fark the poor.

Because Benjamin Franklin didn't say it was a bad thing.
 
2020-05-12 3:34:02 PM  
The field of economics would be immeasurably improved if we made a yearly sacrifice of one tenth of the economists who made incorrect predictions, in the way of appeasing the free market.

/It is a fickle god.
 
2020-05-12 3:34:31 PM  

Dubwise: I mean it is a Libertarian idea. I thought the GOP was full of Libertarians.


Insofar as "Libertarian" means "I don't think rules should apply to me, specifically."
 
2020-05-12 3:34:44 PM  
We can't have UBI or Universal Health care because the people making over $35000 a year look up to the Bloombergs of the world.

The 50% of people making under $33,000 a year and the 30 million without health care just make them feel successful because it is how their heroes see it.

There is a reason Mike Bloomberg is a hero to the Republicans and the Democrats.

You aren't winning unless someone else is losing.
 
2020-05-12 3:34:50 PM  
For crying out loud, BEN FRANKLIN NEVER SAID THAT!

Geez, these jokers just repeat the same bullcrap over and over.
 
2020-05-12 3:35:01 PM  
We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.
 
2020-05-12 3:35:33 PM  

UberDave: Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

Would you not work if you were receiving UBI?  No, you *would* work even if you were receiving UBI?  Then fark off with that, arrogant prick.


I'd do everything in my power to not work if I was getting a UBI.  Why the fark would I work if I didn't have to?  I might have to work a couple more years, but I would absolutely be retiring the second I could do so.
 
2020-05-12 3:37:26 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Then let's do it!

I mean, Trump's voters elected him to blow up the system. Drain the swamp. Make America Great Again. He failed. So why not try something totally different. Why not help the people for a change.

Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

1. Did he say that?
2. Would we become a Democracy?
3. Who is the Heartland Institute and why does it sound like a Koch Brother organization?


1) No he did not. Nor did Hamilton, or Jefferson or DeTocqueville: "
Loren Collins heard the aphorism so often that he decided to do some research into its origins. He was able to trace the first known usage of the quote to a 1951 column by Daily Oklahoman newspaperman Elmer T. Peterson, who cites Alexander Fraser Tytler-not de Tocqueville-as the original author.


And in fact, very much to the contrary,  Ben Franklin would give this guy a good cock-punch and his weasel boss too:

CHAPTER 16|Document 12
Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris

25 Dec. 1783Writings 9:138
The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People's Money out of their Pockets, tho' only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors' Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell'd to pay by some Law.
All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.
 
2020-05-12 3:37:31 PM  
Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

By this measure the republic ended when we started routinely bailing out wealthy investors. So now that that's over, I want my farking cut.
 
2020-05-12 3:38:42 PM  
According to Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), "The government has told people we need to shelter in place to keep safe. So it's the government's obligation to provide for basic expenses while we're telling people not to work. It's really that simple." Khanna is just one of many congressional Democrats who are calling for the federal government to send Americans monthly payments for who knows how long.


/Actually, according to Bajoran tradition, he should refer to her as Rep. Ro, since that's her family name.
 
2020-05-12 3:38:50 PM  

LL316: UberDave: Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

Would you not work if you were receiving UBI?  No, you *would* work even if you were receiving UBI?  Then fark off with that, arrogant prick.

I'd do everything in my power to not work if I was getting a UBI.  Why the fark would I work if I didn't have to?  I might have to work a couple more years, but I would absolutely be retiring the second I could do so.


I'd work for small businesses that I actually liked, no matter how much they paid, knowing that I could walk at any time so they had better be fair and nontoxic.
 
2020-05-12 3:39:03 PM  
I personally would drag this little prick to the guillotine....
 
2020-05-12 3:39:08 PM  
UBI is paid for by an implicit wealth tax due to monetary inflation. People who hold cash assets see the value of those assets diminished as more money is printed to pay UBI. Most of those cash assets are held by public pension funds, which will demand higher interest rates on notes to account for the inflation, which means people who need to borrow money to run businesses or buy houses, etc will pay higher interest rates.

Inflation is mostly a progressive tax of sorts in that it affects the middle class and wealthy the most.

If you were to implement UBI, you really should just eliminate the income taxes altogether, print the money you need to pay it AND implement a wealth tax to fund general operations to take some money back out of the system from people in proportionality.

I am against UBI --- but if you are going to do it.. do it the best way.
 
2020-05-12 3:39:28 PM  

LL316: UberDave: Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

Would you not work if you were receiving UBI?  No, you *would* work even if you were receiving UBI?  Then fark off with that, arrogant prick.

I'd do everything in my power to not work if I was getting a UBI.  Why the fark would I work if I didn't have to?  I might have to work a couple more years, but I would absolutely be retiring the second I could do so.


That's a good thing.
 
2020-05-12 3:39:49 PM  
You see, when poor people spend money, it doesn't help the economy near as much as when rich people buy stocks. It's that simple. Some peoples' money is just better see? Having regular people buy beer or cigs or maybe even something nicer like a car or a new sofa, that only helps a few local businessman.   Financial investing, now that really helps. It means slivers of bonuses percolating through multiple levels of management, house painters in the Hamptons getting paid, and helps the defict by taxing returns at a fraction of the working schmos.
 
2020-05-12 3:40:44 PM  
Man.  It's like they really want to end up getting their post-quarantine haircut at Mme Guillotine's.
 
2020-05-12 3:40:44 PM  

Magorn: Nadie_AZ: Then let's do it!

I mean, Trump's voters elected him to blow up the system. Drain the swamp. Make America Great Again. He failed. So why not try something totally different. Why not help the people for a change.

Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

1. Did he say that?
2. Would we become a Democracy?
3. Who is the Heartland Institute and why does it sound like a Koch Brother organization?

1) No he did not. Nor did Hamilton, or Jefferson or DeTocqueville: "
Loren Collins heard the aphorism so often that he decided to do some research into its origins. He was able to trace the first known usage of the quote to a 1951 column by Daily Oklahoman newspaperman Elmer T. Peterson, who cites Alexander Fraser Tytler-not de Tocqueville-as the original author.


And in fact, very much to the contrary,  Ben Franklin would give this guy a good cock-punch and his weasel boss too:

CHAPTER 16|Document 12
Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris
25 Dec. 1783Writings 9:138
The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People's Money out of their Pockets, tho' only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors' Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell'd to pay by some Law.
All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.


BUUUURRRN!
 
2020-05-12 3:42:25 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I have matches.


we're going to need more than matches.
 
2020-05-12 3:43:24 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

1. Did he say that?
2. Would we become a Democracy?
3. Who is the Heartland Institute and why does it sound like a Koch Brother organization?


Republicans have been voting themselves money for decades.  Not quite the same way, but the result is the same, if orders of magnitude bigger.
 
2020-05-12 3:44:09 PM  

Byno: We could uncap the social security wage base and implement a 7.65% healthcare tax on employees and a 15.3% employer tax and: 1) fully fund social security; 2) fully fund M4A, and; 3) service all the interest on our debt.

There is no way on earth we could pay every man woman and child in this country even $500/mo without collecting $2T in incomes taxes, which is a tall order given that the feds don't even collect that in total income taxes currently.

You want UBI?  Ok, seems like a good idea.  How you gonna pay for it? Because if your answer is "tax the ultra wealthy," even if we took every penny the 1% makes over $1mm/year we wouldn't come up with 1/2 of the necessary taxation to pay for the program.  And, if your argument is that everybody will be in the boat, it's a farce to think we could pay for UBI by taxing families making less than $100k annually in any substantive amount.

$2k/mo is risable.  Divert all safety net programs to UBI, tax 100% of income > $1mm/year, and soak the corporations and you're not even close.

Just stop it.  There's plenty of ways to rebuild the social safety net without selling people bullshiat we can't afford to do.


How do you pay for it? Deficit spending. And tax the wealthy 99.99% on ALL WEALTH above $20M.
 
2020-05-12 3:44:36 PM  

Magnanimous_J: The only countries that I can think of that pay stipends to their citizens are Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.

I'm not saying we shouldn't look into it, but lets not ignore the strings that might be attached to that check.


The USA does this too. It's called "Alaska."

We also give people free money all the time through a convoluted mess of programs with poorly enforced eligibility requirements - public housing, welfare, Medicaid, disability, unemployment, food stamps, etc. Wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective to eliminate all of those programs and just give every single person the exact same check every month?
 
2020-05-12 3:47:15 PM  

optikeye: I say let's go back to the "Good old days" of American exceptionalism.
You know the idealist past where America led the world in Auto ownership, new housing sales, science and medicine..and a space program that could put a man on the moon.
Let's go back to those days....and The top marginal tax rate in 1960 was 91%, which applied to income over $200,000


Fun Phact: 200k in 1960 = about 1.7 million today.
 
2020-05-12 3:47:33 PM  
My standard of living is higher than $2000 a month would get me.  I'm in California.  I pay more than that for housing.

I guess my standard of living is actually pretty shiatty.  I just pay too much for things.
 
2020-05-12 3:47:48 PM  
FTFA: "When and how will we know the "crisis" has ended, and the payments will be stopped?"

It's called testing farkwad. And this payment by the government is temporary so the more testing is completed the more temporary it becomes.

I swear, if billionaires could just pay a living wage then we'd have a better case to handle something like this but this cannot be done because it just might lower the altitude of their personal Elysian.

/rant off
 
2020-05-12 3:47:51 PM  

Magorn: Nadie_AZ: Then let's do it!

I mean, Trump's voters elected him to blow up the system. Drain the swamp. Make America Great Again. He failed. So why not try something totally different. Why not help the people for a change.

Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

1. Did he say that?
2. Would we become a Democracy?
3. Who is the Heartland Institute and why does it sound like a Koch Brother organization?

1) No he did not. Nor did Hamilton, or Jefferson or DeTocqueville: "
Loren Collins heard the aphorism so often that he decided to do some research into its origins. He was able to trace the first known usage of the quote to a 1951 column by Daily Oklahoman newspaperman Elmer T. Peterson, who cites Alexander Fraser Tytler-not de Tocqueville-as the original author.


And in fact, very much to the contrary,  Ben Franklin would give this guy a good cock-punch and his weasel boss too:

CHAPTER 16|Document 12
Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris
25 Dec. 1783Writings 9:138
The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People's Money out of their Pockets, tho' only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors' Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell'd to pay by some Law.
All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Convey ...


There's a reason I always thought Benji Frank as one of the more astute and brilliant thinkers among the Founding Fathers.
 
2020-05-12 3:50:19 PM  

dr_blasto: LL316: UberDave: Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

Would you not work if you were receiving UBI?  No, you *would* work even if you were receiving UBI?  Then fark off with that, arrogant prick.

I'd do everything in my power to not work if I was getting a UBI.  Why the fark would I work if I didn't have to?  I might have to work a couple more years, but I would absolutely be retiring the second I could do so.

That's a good thing.


Oh, I'm not arguing against it.  I'd LOVE to never work again.  I was simply responding to UberDave.
 
2020-05-12 3:50:41 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." Could a UBI in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic inadvertently lead to this nightmare scenario?

By this measure the republic ended when we started routinely bailing out wealthy investors. So now that that's over, I want my farking cut.


Sorry, we haven't stopped funneling money to rich people yet. When they're done they'll consider selling you some of it at a ridiculous markup.
 
2020-05-12 3:52:59 PM  
well the rich figured out 100 years ago that they can vote themselves money. so ....
 
2020-05-12 3:54:22 PM  

LL316: dr_blasto: LL316: UberDave: Yes, the architects of the Green New Deal want the U.S. government to pay Americans, even if they just don't want to work.

Would you not work if you were receiving UBI?  No, you *would* work even if you were receiving UBI?  Then fark off with that, arrogant prick.

I'd do everything in my power to not work if I was getting a UBI.  Why the fark would I work if I didn't have to?  I might have to work a couple more years, but I would absolutely be retiring the second I could do so.

That's a good thing.

Oh, I'm not arguing against it.  I'd LOVE to never work again.  I was simply responding to UberDave.


This is the phony Republican talking point New Liberals spout. That somehow a thousand dollars a month makes the wealthy. A welfare queen so-to-speak. These are the scumbags Joe Biden speaks to. The people that are happy with punishing the poor with his war on poverty,crime bill and Bankruptcy abuse law.

What you are seeing isn't a liberal but a repackaged Reagan Republican.
 
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