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(Washington Post)   Well Trump may have accomplished something we haven't been able to do since Vietnam, stop worshipping the military   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Barack Obama, President of the United States, United States Department of Defense, former defense secretary Jim Mattis, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper, Iraq War, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency  
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2298 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2020 at 1:44 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-12 10:34:37 AM  
"since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?
 
2020-05-12 10:45:39 AM  
It hasn't ended. There will always be people who will. Much like fundamental Christians, the pool may be getting smaller, but it gets more concentrated.
 
2020-05-12 11:10:43 AM  

shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?


For the most part returnees were treated like they didn't exist. Read the lyrics of Born in the USA if you want to know what it was really like.
 
2020-05-12 12:37:33 PM  

oldernell: shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?

For the most part returnees were treated like they didn't exist. Read the lyrics of Born in the USA if you want to know what it was really like.


I listened to a historian (and a Vietnam vet) give a lecture on this. One of the factors was the fault of the length of the war, and the nature of the tours the US soldiers had - generally a year. So there was always a trickle of soldiers returning all over the place, and no defined "end" (or declaration, really) of the war until its absolute conclusion, long after the public had soured on the war. And it was a loss- you don't parade for losses. The government did what governments always do- shaft the survivor vets of benefits, much like Korea, which technically, still hasn't ended.
 
2020-05-12 1:09:18 PM  
I grew up with Viet Nam. Had several older friends who were there. Anyone who says there was "worship of the military" in the years after is joking.
 
2020-05-12 1:15:23 PM  

shadow01: I grew up with Viet Nam. Had several older friends who were there. Anyone who says there was "worship of the military" in the years after is joking.


Adding this because the meaning of my original comment apparently wasn't clear.
 
2020-05-12 1:21:01 PM  

mainsail: oldernell: shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?

For the most part returnees were treated like they didn't exist. Read the lyrics of Born in the USA if you want to know what it was really like.

I listened to a historian (and a Vietnam vet) give a lecture on this. One of the factors was the fault of the length of the war, and the nature of the tours the US soldiers had - generally a year. So there was always a trickle of soldiers returning all over the place, and no defined "end" (or declaration, really) of the war until its absolute conclusion, long after the public had soured on the war. And it was a loss- you don't parade for losses. The government did what governments always do- shaft the survivor vets of benefits, much like Korea, which technically, still hasn't ended.


There was also the perception that many returning Vets were drug addicts, damaged and some even dangerous.   Which, in a very sad way, led to many being exactly that.
 
2020-05-12 1:26:55 PM  
We're not getting away from jingoism that easily, subby.
 
2020-05-12 1:30:30 PM  
The worship came from Reagan and the conscious interpolation of Republicans with military virtue and anyone else as unamerican hippies, commies, whatever, greedy and useless (Jewish, etc.).
 
2020-05-12 1:47:26 PM  

shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?


I'm not 100% sure, but I think subby may be confused and referring to MASH.
 
2020-05-12 1:48:38 PM  
But what will the Dependapotamuses do for bumper stickers if the Cult of the Military begins to fade?
 
2020-05-12 1:49:46 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: mainsail: oldernell: shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?

For the most part returnees were treated like they didn't exist. Read the lyrics of Born in the USA if you want to know what it was really like.

I listened to a historian (and a Vietnam vet) give a lecture on this. One of the factors was the fault of the length of the war, and the nature of the tours the US soldiers had - generally a year. So there was always a trickle of soldiers returning all over the place, and no defined "end" (or declaration, really) of the war until its absolute conclusion, long after the public had soured on the war. And it was a loss- you don't parade for losses. The government did what governments always do- shaft the survivor vets of benefits, much like Korea, which technically, still hasn't ended.

There was also the perception that many returning Vets were drug addicts, damaged and some even dangerous.   Which, in a very sad way, led to many being exactly that.


Watching a documentary on RFK has soured me forever to loads of people who were known to shiat on him for being JFK's brother and that was his only value.

/the handling of the investigation on his assassination also really pissed me off
 
2020-05-12 1:51:04 PM  
My dad was a C130 gunship pilot during the Vietnam war. Retired Lt Col may he RIP.
My brother was a munitions loader in the AF.
I was a two year baby that got shiatfaced in Germany for two years on the country's dime.

Soldiers should be respected right up until they shouldn't be.
Nothing more, nothing less.
 
2020-05-12 1:51:29 PM  
They overwhelmingly voted for him once. Let's see what they do this time around. Personally, I'm not anything from them.

/PROVE ME WRONG, KIDS!
 
2020-05-12 1:51:48 PM  
We don't worship the military/police?

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2020-05-12 1:51:54 PM  
The military worship usually ramps up when there is significant military activity.  Fortunately there has been very little action lately.
 
2020-05-12 1:53:11 PM  

Peter Weyland: But what will the Dependapotamuses do for bumper stickers if the Cult of the Military begins to fade?


Nothing. They'll still worship the military while screwing the troops.
 
2020-05-12 1:53:49 PM  

deanis: We don't worship the military/police?

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No Amnesty sticker


Anyone break the news to the poor bastard that Reagan already did that?
 
2020-05-12 1:54:04 PM  
Returning veterans were never spit on at airports. There are zero contemporary reports. Ask yourself that if there was a standing group of hippies at the airport spitting on troops, what do you think would happen?  You know the answer.  The cops would split their heads open.

People got the idea from First Blood.
 
2020-05-12 1:54:33 PM  

shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?


I think more accurately:  In the years since 9/11 when we started another ill-defined, endless war but tried to learn some lessons from Viet Nam.
 
2020-05-12 1:55:27 PM  
Based off what?  Another farking editorial masquerading as journalism?
 
2020-05-12 1:55:55 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: The worship came from Reagan and the conscious interpolation of Republicans with military virtue and anyone else as unamerican hippies, commies, whatever, greedy and useless (Jewish, etc.).


Except Reagan only "served" by making propaganda movies.
 
2020-05-12 1:56:00 PM  

mainsail: It hasn't ended. There will always be people who will. Much like fundamental Christians, the pool may be getting smaller, but it gets more concentrated.


Maybe. But military worship has been pretty much mandatory for decades. If it can be limited to a marginalized minority, the country will be better for it.
 
2020-05-12 1:56:07 PM  

SanityIsAFullTimeJob: The military worship usually ramps up when there is significant military activity.  Fortunately there has been very little action lately.


There are a lot of people who will fall all over themselves to "thank you for your service".

I've never been in any branch of the armed forces, but I once got "thanked" over the phone when I used the NATO alphabet to spell something out.
 
2020-05-12 1:57:23 PM  

palelizard: Peter Weyland: But what will the Dependapotamuses do for bumper stickers if the Cult of the Military begins to fade?

Nothing. They'll still worship the military while screwing the troops.


Both literally and metaphorically.  The real question is whether or not they get to use the Dodge Charger while their husband of convenience is deployed.
 
2020-05-12 2:00:22 PM  
Those heroic depictions are preferable to the chants of "baby killers" heard during the Vietnam War

PROTIP: A great way to not get called "baby killer" is not burn down entire villages.
 
2020-05-12 2:00:29 PM  
The people declaring there was no military worship in this country after Vietnam have obviously never seen a 1980s action movie (or its shiatty recent remake/reboot).
 
2020-05-12 2:01:31 PM  

deanis: We don't worship the military/police?

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"I love my wife" is my favorite.  Always good to demonstrate plausible deniability when you're brought up on domestics.
 
2020-05-12 2:03:46 PM  
CSB: Recently when i was used car shopping i went to this guys house to check out a car & before we can talk about the car or anything else he makes a point to tell me that hes retired armed forces as is his wife & his kid is active duty etc etc etc... and wants to know if im military too.

I ignored all that, i wasnt interested, i was there to see about a car & so i asked him some questions about the car.

He didnt want to talk about the car, he wanted to talk about rock, flag & eagle. I think he was upset i didnt do the "thank you for your service" song and dance.

I dont play that game, you chose to spend your 20s playing GI joe with million dollar toys at my expense.. you made the world less safe for us all...  you got paid for it, AND you got a free education. I dont thank veterans for shiat, they should be thanking me for paying my taxes. 

Anyway, i didnt buy the car, the guys marine corps son had driven the piss out of it & it ran like shiat.
 
2020-05-12 2:08:39 PM  
Bah. They left out Hogan's Heroes.

Fun fact: they filmed it at 40acres, an old film lot where Andy Griffith and Gone With The Wind was filmed along with a few Star Trek episodes. The ST scenes were downtown Mayberry with a new dress. In some scenes in HH you can see the water tower of the town.

Like films and have a few spare hours? There are worse ways to spend your time.

http://www.retroweb.com/40acres.html

/Illsa was filmed at the old HH set
 
2020-05-12 2:09:36 PM  

emersonbiggins: deanis: We don't worship the military/police?

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"I love my wife" is my favorite.  Always good to demonstrate plausible deniability when you're brought up on domestics.


The "I Love My Wife" thing comes from a movement called "The Promise Keepers" who gained some notoriety in the 2000's by making all sorts of merch with that phrase on it.

As a friend's Dad once said, "If you have to constantly be surrounded by reminders that you love your wife, maybe there's something else wrong with your marriage."
 
2020-05-12 2:11:29 PM  

saturn badger: Bah. They left out Hogan's Heroes.

Fun fact: they filmed it at 40acres, an old film lot where Andy Griffith and Gone With The Wind was filmed along with a few Star Trek episodes. The ST scenes were downtown Mayberry with a new dress. In some scenes in HH you can see the water tower of the town.

Like films and have a few spare hours? There are worse ways to spend your time.

http://www.retroweb.com/40acres.html

/Illsa was filmed at the old HH set


Fark user imageView Full Size

Hmm?
I'll include a hero Hogan.
Larry Hogan legalized medical marijuana to help the vets.

/yeah I know, Hogan's Heroes is, what, a tv show?
 
2020-05-12 2:11:31 PM  

saturn badger: Bah. They left out Hogan's Heroes.

Fun fact: they filmed it at 40acres, an old film lot where Andy Griffith and Gone With The Wind was filmed along with a few Star Trek episodes. The ST scenes were downtown Mayberry with a new dress. In some scenes in HH you can see the water tower of the town.

Like films and have a few spare hours? There are worse ways to spend your time.

http://www.retroweb.com/40acres.html

/Illsa was filmed at the old HH set


I didn't know that about Ilsa.
 
2020-05-12 2:13:02 PM  
It started, in the modern post WW2 era when "Support the Troops" became a thing.  Slapping a sticker on the truck or on your FB page is the modern idea of "sacrifice" that requires nothing more (certainly no ration books).   It also became a cudgel to beat anyone who questioned US overseas adventures over the head with.  "You don't support the Troops!!!".

I got that once, then I pointed out that my kid is a Marine.   I'm quite supportive of him, thanks very much.  Then I also mentioned that he is a Democrat.   Then the "Support the Troops" woman suddenly found a way to not be so "supportive".
 
2020-05-12 2:14:40 PM  
Under what rock is Subby and the article author living? What a stupid article.
 
2020-05-12 2:15:46 PM  
Why is it that 7 out of 8 of my Vietnam vets friends are anything but worshipful toward the military.
The original Headline comment I interpret to mean that going into the Viet Nam War America thought the US military could do no wrong. After, not so much.

I mark the Beginning of the Rise of NeoNationalism with Colin Powell restoring the dignity of the Armed Forces by rebuilding it bigger and better than evar, as C of the JC under Reagan , then NSA under GHWBush.

VN taught an important lesson, which was completely forgotten by Clintons second term. Remember Maddy Albright saying " What good is the Worlds greatest military if we never use it"  Sheesh
 
2020-05-12 2:16:05 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: The worship came from Reagan and the conscious interpolation of Republicans with military virtue and anyone else as unamerican hippies, commies, whatever, greedy and useless (Jewish, etc.).


It was an unintended result of the "support our troops". It evolved from a "dont blame the soldier for what politicians send them to do" to being interpreted as putting them on a pedestal.
 
2020-05-12 2:16:11 PM  

chewd: CSB: Recently when i was used car shopping i went to this guys house to check out a car & before we can talk about the car or anything else he makes a point to tell me that hes retired armed forces as is his wife & his kid is active duty etc etc etc... and wants to know if im military too.

I ignored all that, i wasnt interested, i was there to see about a car & so i asked him some questions about the car.

He didnt want to talk about the car, he wanted to talk about rock, flag & eagle. I think he was upset i didnt do the "thank you for your service" song and dance.

I dont play that game, you chose to spend your 20s playing GI joe with million dollar toys at my expense.. you made the world less safe for us all...  you got paid for it, AND you got a free education. I dont thank veterans for shiat, they should be thanking me for paying my taxes. 

Anyway, i didnt buy the car, the guys marine corps son had driven the piss out of it & it ran like shiat.


That's a funny story, thanks for sharing. Some people join the military because 'Murica and such as. My wife and I both joined (before we knew each other) because college didn't work out. Our youngest daughter is in now in the military because the hell she was going to grow roots in the basement which she seemed to be on a path to doing. I think most people end up joining for those types of reasons. It's just a job for most military people. There are lots of government jobs out there that your tax dollars pay for. And by the by our military could use a rather large funding decrease. But good luck getting that through Congress. The critters make bank by getting military contracts in their states.

Anyways most vets aren't like that jack hole you ran across. You would not know we are vets by coming to our house unless you rummaged through a closet. I only bring it up with my students when talking about the benefits. Mostly debt-free college because that right there is a huge benefit.
 
2020-05-12 2:16:24 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Returning veterans were never spit on at airports. There are zero contemporary reports. Ask yourself that if there was a standing group of hippies at the airport spitting on troops, what do you think would happen?  You know the answer.  The cops would split their heads open.

People got the idea from First Blood.


And this book takes that on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spi​t​ting_Image
 
2020-05-12 2:16:38 PM  

Peter Weyland: saturn badger: Bah. They left out Hogan's Heroes.

Fun fact: they filmed it at 40acres, an old film lot where Andy Griffith and Gone With The Wind was filmed along with a few Star Trek episodes. The ST scenes were downtown Mayberry with a new dress. In some scenes in HH you can see the water tower of the town.

Like films and have a few spare hours? There are worse ways to spend your time.

http://www.retroweb.com/40acres.html

/Illsa was filmed at the old HH set

I didn't know that about Ilsa.


I watched enough of it to verify it. The deal was they wanted the set torn down and the Illsa people said we'll do it. The explosions and shiat were real to destroy the set.

But do go look at the site. It is an amazing piece of film history. The gates for one of the bible movies was used for King Kong. Lots of neat stuff there.
 
2020-05-12 2:17:04 PM  

deanis: We don't worship the military/police?

[Fark user image image 397x127]

[images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com image 850x667]
[cdn.shopify.com image 600x476][i.pinimg.com image 850x637]

[thedeathofenthusiasm.files.wordpress.​com image 850x437]


And this
 
2020-05-12 2:18:40 PM  

Purple_Urkle: saturn badger: Bah. They left out Hogan's Heroes.

Fun fact: they filmed it at 40acres, an old film lot where Andy Griffith and Gone With The Wind was filmed along with a few Star Trek episodes. The ST scenes were downtown Mayberry with a new dress. In some scenes in HH you can see the water tower of the town.

Like films and have a few spare hours? There are worse ways to spend your time.

http://www.retroweb.com/40acres.html

/Illsa was filmed at the old HH set

[Fark user image 425x238]
Hmm?
I'll include a hero Hogan.
Larry Hogan legalized medical marijuana to help the vets.

/yeah I know, Hogan's Heroes is, what, a tv show?


Yeah. HH was a POW show with bumbling Nazis. Two of the Nazis in the show were Jews. Col. Klink (one of them) refused the show at first until they looked like bumbling idiots.
 
2020-05-12 2:21:04 PM  

DrD'isInfotainment: Why is it that 7 out of 8 of my Vietnam vets friends are anything but worshipful toward the military.
The original Headline comment I interpret to mean that going into the Viet Nam War America thought the US military could do no wrong. After, not so much.

I mark the Beginning of the Rise of NeoNationalism with Colin Powell restoring the dignity of the Armed Forces by rebuilding it bigger and better than evar, as C of the JC under Reagan , then NSA under GHWBush.

VN taught an important lesson, which was completely forgotten by Clintons second term. Remember Maddy Albright saying " What good is the Worlds greatest military if we never use it"  Sheesh


The other very important lesson VN taught them was never ever show the film from a war on prime time news. Every night we watched people being slaughtered. It was not a good PR move.
 
2020-05-12 2:26:03 PM  
You mean the asshole who has nothing but contempt for any military people (easy to discern by his actions and some of his stupid words) but who also successfully throws out some military-fellating bullshiat when the opportunity presents itself, which his incredibly stupid worshipers lap up like he's just served them the most delicious of nectars.

It is really difficult to decide which flavor of his worshipers are the stupidest of all, but the military ones are really, really close to the top of that list.
 
2020-05-12 2:36:33 PM  

oldernell: shadow01: "since Viet Nam"?, Subby's joking, right?

For the most part returnees were treated like they didn't exist. Read the lyrics of Born in the USA if you want to know what it was really like.


They went on to form the core of the first big wave of homeless in the 80s. It taught me early on that you can't depend on anyone to take care of you, no matter what they say or what you do.
 
2020-05-12 2:36:51 PM  
Growing up at the tail end of  Vietnam, was in the first batch to register for selective service, I always felt the current worshiping of the military started after Desert Storm under Bush the elder and then got bigger right have 9/11.  As for retired/served a single tour the book is all over the place with them.  Some wear it everyday and make sure you know it and other only if you ask for some reason.  And yes I find the "why don't you worship me" types to be assholes for the most part.

/lots of retired military here in OK
//Explains a lot about the state
///Didn't serve but interacted with the Navy during high school while in the Sea Cadet Corps., was fun but also the reason I avoided enlisting.
 
2020-05-12 2:38:19 PM  
Subs sounds a little jelly about not being in the service.
 
2020-05-12 2:41:39 PM  

saturn badger: Yeah. HH was a POW show with bumbling Nazis. Two of the Nazis in the show were Jews. Col. Klink (one of them) refused the show at first until they looked like bumbling idiots.


Minor point, all of the major Nazis were Jewish actors (with Werner Klemperer having converted to Catholicism and then back to Judaism), including the recurring Gestapo officer Hochstetter and Col. Klink's superior General Burkhalter
 
2020-05-12 2:48:12 PM  

HallsOfMandos: The people declaring there was no military worship in this country after Vietnam have obviously never seen a 1980s action movie (or its shiatty recent remake/reboot).


Or watched any show on CBS right now.

Or any movies about the military nowadays. The military doesn't cooperate with a Hollywood studio that doesn't suck up to the military. How many mainstream movies about Vietnam have there been vs movies about WWII in the last 20 years?
 
2020-05-12 2:49:06 PM  
Speaking as a veteran:

Good.
 
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