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(NBC Sports)   The 1990s baseball award voters had no idea what they were doing, voting for the likes of Bob Welch, Terry Pendleton, and Juan Gonzalez ahead of Clemens, Bonds, and Griffey based on defective old-school stats and sentimental storylines   (mlb.nbcsports.com) divider line
    More: Vintage, Atlanta Braves, Cy Young Award, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Boston Red Sox, Braves' Terry Pendleton, Cleveland Indians, Pirates' Barry Bonds  
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461 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 May 2020 at 6:20 PM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-05-07 3:55:39 PM  
The reason why Pendleton beat Bonds and Vaughn beat Belle?  Because the people who vote loved Pendleton and Vaughn while disliking Bonds and utterly despising Belle (utter hatred for Bonds would come later, after his hat size grew).  It's stupid, but that's the reason.  Baseball has always been the cattiest group of mean girls when it comes to this kind of thing, much worse than the other major sports
 
2020-05-07 4:50:52 PM  

Naido: The reason why Pendleton beat Bonds and Vaughn beat Belle?  Because the people who vote loved Pendleton and Vaughn while disliking Bonds and utterly despising Belle (utter hatred for Bonds would come later, after his hat size grew).  It's stupid, but that's the reason.  Baseball has always been the cattiest group of mean girls when it comes to this kind of thing, much worse than the other major sports


All of this is true, and not to gild the lily, but Pendleton interrupting Bonds' MVP streak is one of the more asinine awards in the history of the game; outside of Willie Mays, Mike Trout, and Mickey Mantle, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better career prior to age 30; moreover, there's a strong argument to be made he should have won five if not six MVPs before he started using.

Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.
 
2020-05-07 6:02:04 PM  
joey belle was an asshole, especially to the guys who voted for the awards.  he should've won easily, but nope
 
2020-05-07 6:35:13 PM  
Byno:Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

I hope you are being snarky cause we all know the answer.

I will note, in Cobb's defense, that the worst things said about him (murderer, spike sharpener, etc.) were probably made up and, like some whites of his day, he did change his views on race later in life, at least publicly. (Not that he was a good guy, but that his assholeishness was exaggerated.)
 
2020-05-07 6:49:46 PM  
List is useless for not having Pudge beating Pedro for the 1999 AL MVP
 
2020-05-07 7:37:53 PM  

Byno: Naido: The reason why Pendleton beat Bonds and Vaughn beat Belle?  Because the people who vote loved Pendleton and Vaughn while disliking Bonds and utterly despising Belle (utter hatred for Bonds would come later, after his hat size grew).  It's stupid, but that's the reason.  Baseball has always been the cattiest group of mean girls when it comes to this kind of thing, much worse than the other major sports

All of this is true, and not to gild the lily, but Pendleton interrupting Bonds' MVP streak is one of the more asinine awards in the history of the game; outside of Willie Mays, Mike Trout, and Mickey Mantle, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better career prior to age 30; moreover, there's a strong argument to be made he should have won five if not six MVPs before he started using.

Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.


Cobb wasn't a racist, and wasn't nearly as surly as the fiction his biographer passed off as history.
 
2020-05-07 7:38:28 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Byno:Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

I hope you are being snarky cause we all know the answer.

I will note, in Cobb's defense, that the worst things said about him (murderer, spike sharpener, etc.) were probably made up and, like some whites of his day, he did change his views on race later in life, at least publicly. (Not that he was a good guy, but that his assholeishness was exaggerated.)


He was from a line of abolitionists!
 
2020-05-07 7:47:42 PM  
and for some reason him being surly

My wife served him for years. He's only surly with journalists or folks who are too pushy and intrude. Otherwise he's evidently a pretty nice guy. Tales abound of him being super cool to other cyclists when he was on his bike. Jeff Kent is a far bigger asshole I think, and probably Matt Williams as well. Hell, Will Clark was a salty bastard too.
 
2020-05-07 7:51:04 PM  

This text is now purple: AliceBToklasLives: Byno:Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

I hope you are being snarky cause we all know the answer.

I will note, in Cobb's defense, that the worst things said about him (murderer, spike sharpener, etc.) were probably made up and, like some whites of his day, he did change his views on race later in life, at least publicly. (Not that he was a good guy, but that his assholeishness was exaggerated.)

He was from a line of abolitionists!


It's probably impossible to judge by today's standards since you'd never publicly state a liberal position like that as a public figure, and racial epithets were the norm. How he felt privately I have no idea, but it's not like being super racist by today's standards was unique to Cobb.
 
2020-05-07 7:56:43 PM  
It's bad enough they used an apostrophe for a plurality of years ("1990's, 2000's"), but it takes some real half-assery to not bother to spellcheck for things like the "NL Wast."

It's a piece about baseball 30 years ago. Take a minute to proofread.
 
2020-05-07 8:03:26 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2020-05-07 8:25:08 PM  

Snapper Carr: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x457]


And the standard look for every Rotisserie baseball league was born!
 
2020-05-07 8:33:06 PM  

drewogatory: My wife served him for years.


Did he ever ask you "How's your wife and my kids?"
 
2020-05-07 8:45:49 PM  

Byno: Naido: The reason why Pendleton beat Bonds and Vaughn beat Belle?  Because the people who vote loved Pendleton and Vaughn while disliking Bonds and utterly despising Belle (utter hatred for Bonds would come later, after his hat size grew).  It's stupid, but that's the reason.  Baseball has always been the cattiest group of mean girls when it comes to this kind of thing, much worse than the other major sports

All of this is true, and not to gild the lily, but Pendleton interrupting Bonds' MVP streak is one of the more asinine awards in the history of the game; outside of Willie Mays, Mike Trout, and Mickey Mantle, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better career prior to age 30; moreover, there's a strong argument to be made he should have won five if not six MVPs before he started using.

Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.


Unleaded Bonds was the best player of his era-besides Griffey. Leaded Bonds was the best hitter besides Babe Ruth or Ted Williams.
 
2020-05-07 8:56:11 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: Byno: Naido: The reason why Pendleton beat Bonds and Vaughn beat Belle?  Because the people who vote loved Pendleton and Vaughn while disliking Bonds and utterly despising Belle (utter hatred for Bonds would come later, after his hat size grew).  It's stupid, but that's the reason.  Baseball has always been the cattiest group of mean girls when it comes to this kind of thing, much worse than the other major sports

All of this is true, and not to gild the lily, but Pendleton interrupting Bonds' MVP streak is one of the more asinine awards in the history of the game; outside of Willie Mays, Mike Trout, and Mickey Mantle, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better career prior to age 30; moreover, there's a strong argument to be made he should have won five if not six MVPs before he started using.

Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

Unleaded Bonds was the best player of his era-besides Griffey. Leaded Bonds was the best hitter besides Babe Ruth or Ted Williams.


Leaded Bonds was the best hitter ever, no qualifications.
 
2020-05-07 9:03:52 PM  
I don't think that giving a guy with 27 wins in a season is "atrocious". I get that there are different metrics and that we value Ks more than anything now, but baseball was better when contact was OK (for pitchers when you allowed non-power contact and for hitters when you put the ball in play).

Also, f*ck Roger Clemens; he should lose a Cy for every kid he named a K name.
 
2020-05-07 9:15:21 PM  
it wasn't just sheer hatred for some players.  Mo Vaughn over Edgar Martinez AND Albert Belle?   Vaughn was maybe the third-best player on his own team that season.   Two years running, the AL-MVP vote was a joke.
 
2020-05-07 9:16:04 PM  
Christ, the Smoltz/Brown thing...ooh, a 2.38 to 2.47 ERA advantage and a lot more Ks. BFD. That's basically giving up 3 more runs for the season if they pitched the same amount. So 2 wins is a bad reason to vote Smoltz...but (the equivalent of) 3 runs better for the year is why you should vote Brown?
 
2020-05-07 9:27:07 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Byno:Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

I hope you are being snarky cause we all know the answer.

I will note, in Cobb's defense, that the worst things said about him (murderer, spike sharpener, etc.) were probably made up and, like some whites of his day, he did change his views on race later in life, at least publicly. (Not that he was a good guy, but that his assholeishness was exaggerated.)


No he did not change his views on race.  I read a long interview held with him near the end of his life and he was still hating on the blacks (but he used a different word).
 
2020-05-07 10:23:19 PM  
Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.
 
2020-05-07 10:36:57 PM  
"Stupid lockdown.

"Yeah, I'm bored, too. What should we talk about."

"Hey, let's argue how baseball got everything wrong 30 years ago."
 
2020-05-07 11:09:53 PM  
Maybe it was a sentimental lady voting for Bob Welch?
 
2020-05-08 3:10:40 AM  

edmo: "Stupid lockdown.

"Yeah, I'm bored, too. What should we talk about."

"Hey, let's argue how baseball got everything wrong 30 years ago."


And then let the woke twits turn it into a racism thread, because hey, they're  freaking cool and you need to know it.
 
2020-05-08 6:25:28 AM  

Mole Man: Maybe it was a sentimental lady voting for Bob Welch?


Well, it's got me mystified.
 
2020-05-08 12:10:36 PM  

Porkbelly: AliceBToklasLives: Byno:Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

I hope you are being snarky cause we all know the answer.

I will note, in Cobb's defense, that the worst things said about him (murderer, spike sharpener, etc.) were probably made up and, like some whites of his day, he did change his views on race later in life, at least publicly. (Not that he was a good guy, but that his assholeishness was exaggerated.)

No he did not change his views on race.  I read a long interview held with him near the end of his life and he was still hating on the blacks (but he used a different word).


Al Stump was a fraud.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor​y​/the-knife-in-ty-cobbs-back-65618032/
 
2020-05-08 12:38:01 PM  
Al Stump is responsible for maligning Ty Cobb's legacy.  Ty Cobb is nothing like what Al Stump made him out to be and it is a shame that that is the picture people have of him.
 
2020-05-08 12:47:48 PM  

Porkbelly: AliceBToklasLives: Byno:Bonds was one of the greatest players in the game's history before he ever became acquainted with BALCO, and for some reason him being surly is more of a crime than being a world class asshole and racist like Ty Cobb, for some reason that just eludes me.

I hope you are being snarky cause we all know the answer.

I will note, in Cobb's defense, that the worst things said about him (murderer, spike sharpener, etc.) were probably made up and, like some whites of his day, he did change his views on race later in life, at least publicly. (Not that he was a good guy, but that his assholeishness was exaggerated.)

No he did not change his views on race.  I read a long interview held with him near the end of his life and he was still hating on the blacks (but he used a different word).


He didn't change his views and no he wasn't hating on blacks.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/4​3​506-ty-cobb-was-not-a-racist
 
2020-05-08 12:54:47 PM  

The Drawing Board: List is useless for not having Pudge beating Pedro for the 1999 AL MVP


Just calling it an MVP season belittles 1999.  That was one of the best, if not the best season ever pitched, all things considered.
 
2020-05-08 1:23:04 PM  
MVPs don't get beat by Sid Bream.
 
2020-05-08 3:03:37 PM  

sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.


I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.
 
2020-05-08 3:43:00 PM  

Trainspotr: sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.

I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.


The award is literally named after the pitcher with the most wins in MLB history, not the best pitcher in history.
 
2020-05-08 4:18:44 PM  

Trainspotr: sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.

I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.


First 25 game winner since 1972 and the last 25 game winner since 1990.

2.95 ERA and 127 strikeouts.  That's a hell of a season and deserves the MVP.
 
2020-05-08 4:47:20 PM  

sprgrss: Trainspotr: sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.

I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.

First 25 game winner since 1972 and the last 25 game winner since 1990.

2.95 ERA and 127 strikeouts.  That's a hell of a season and deserves the MVP.


Clemens had a 1.93 ERA and 209 strikeouts. That's a hell of a season.

Welch had 14 starts with 6+ runs of support and only 3 with 2 or fewer. Clemens had 6 and 9, respectively.

Welch gave up 4 or more ER in 9 starts out of 35. Clemens did it only twice in 31 starts.

Clemens had a better pitching season. Welch had a better offense. And that's why Welch won the Cy.
 
2020-05-08 5:15:28 PM  

IAmRight: Trainspotr: sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.

I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.

The award is literally named after the pitcher with the most wins in MLB history, not the best pitcher in history.


It's named after a guy who started his career throwing underhand, without a glove, from a box 55ish feet from home plate. Which has just as much to do with the discussion as your contribution.
 
2020-05-08 7:15:16 PM  

Trainspotr: IAmRight: Trainspotr: sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.

I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.

The award is literally named after the pitcher with the most wins in MLB history, not the best pitcher in history.

It's named after a guy who started his career throwing underhand, without a glove, from a box 55ish feet from home plate. Which has just as much to do with the discussion as your contribution.


It's less stupid than getting mad about a pitching award from 30 years ago going to the guy with the most wins in a season in the past 50.

"But ERA!"

I mean, I'm no fan of RINGZZZZ arguments, so I get the anger against wins being the end-all, be-all. But saying that the best stat of your choice is the only acceptable way to determine awards is every bit as dumb.

It is funny to reward (as in, judge PAST performance) based on stats most likely to predict wins instead of actual wins, though.
 
2020-05-08 9:04:06 PM  

IAmRight: Trainspotr: IAmRight: Trainspotr: sprgrss: Bob Welch earned that Cy Young by winning 27 games.

I'm going to assume that the smart votes you got were meant sarcastically.

The award is literally named after the pitcher with the most wins in MLB history, not the best pitcher in history.

It's named after a guy who started his career throwing underhand, without a glove, from a box 55ish feet from home plate. Which has just as much to do with the discussion as your contribution.

It's less stupid than getting mad about a pitching award from 30 years ago going to the guy with the most wins in a season in the past 50.

"But ERA!"

I mean, I'm no fan of RINGZZZZ arguments, so I get the anger against wins being the end-all, be-all. But saying that the best stat of your choice is the only acceptable way to determine awards is every bit as dumb.

It is funny to reward (as in, judge PAST performance) based on stats most likely to predict wins instead of actual wins, though.


Mad? Who's mad about anything? I'm bored, and it amuses me when people think that stats which rely heavily on what other players do (Wins and RBI) should outweigh stats which focus on what the individual has done. Which is why I funnied the original comment. 

But saying that the best stat of your choice is the only acceptable way to determine awards is every bit as dumb.

On that we agree. People who say that one stat (Wins, for example) is the only acceptable way to determine awards are dumb. Because when you look at pretty much every other pitching stat, it's not clear Welch was the best pitcher on his own team in 1990, let alone the entire AL.
 
2020-05-08 9:41:43 PM  
Wins are what matter.
 
2020-05-09 4:00:41 AM  

Byno: there's a strong argument to be made he should have won five if not six MVPs before he started using


Bonds started using the SECOND he got to the Bay Area.

You saw a difference in him immediately. And the Bay Area was the hotbed of baseball PEDs ALREADY
 
2020-05-09 4:03:03 AM  

Your_Huckleberry: Unleaded Bonds was the best player of his era-besides Griffey. Leaded Bonds was the best hitter besides Babe Ruth or Ted Williams


The ACTUAL unleaded Bonds was a poor man's Andruw Jones without a problem with injuries.
 
2020-05-09 4:16:48 AM  
Bonds always had a top 3 of all time batting eye.

but damn if umps and that elbow armor didn't help almost as much as the drugs.
 
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