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    More: Scary, Cruise missile, United States Marine Corps, wide missile gap, U.S. warships, cruise missiles, Ballistic missile, March of senior U.S., long-range  
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3832 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 06 May 2020 at 2:17 PM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2020-05-06 2:20:22 PM  
9 votes:
If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.
 
2020-05-06 1:56:38 PM  
9 votes:
Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.
 
2020-05-06 3:05:12 PM  
8 votes:

The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.


Kiiiiiinda. The last thing China wants is a conflict with the US over ocean access. The fight would be on their doorstep, we still have more global reach, and they are more dependent on transoceanic trade than we are.

The explicit goal of CPC military buildup is coercive reunification with Taiwan, and the implicit goal is developing the ability to secure China's own sea lanes to its resource suppliers in the Gulf and Africa. The furthest into the Pacific China has any real interest in reaching is Guam, and then only to prevent the US from farking with its actual goals.

Now, obviously this runs counter to the US Navy's core interest of free and open ocean navigation, and nobody outside of China wants TSMC's technology to get expropriated by the mainland. But the countries that China is actually challenging here are Japan and Korea. A China that can independently secure sea lanes in the SCS is also a China that can blockade Japan, Korea, the Philippines, and Vietnam on a whim.
 
2020-05-06 2:28:57 PM  
7 votes:

fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.


Heck most of us Gen-Expendable could tell you what was Ground Zero in our towns. For me it was a high school that if a 10 megaton air burst went off over it the blast alone would take out a SAC base, a Logistics base and a SpecOps base as well as an Army Depot and a nuclear power plant. Amazingly ALL of those things are gone now -- without a nuke. It took the inept flimflammery of Dianne "Forever" Feinstein, our wonderful Republican Senator with a sneaky D in front of her name to accomplish that feat.

/ I despise her, we need real Democrats, and no Harris barely counts as one herself.
 
2020-05-06 2:26:36 PM  
6 votes:
We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.
 
2020-05-06 2:46:32 PM  
5 votes:
China never stopped being hostile, if you've actually been paying attention to their military moves.
 
2020-05-06 3:14:51 PM  
4 votes:
If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?
 
2020-05-06 2:57:30 PM  
4 votes:

OldJames: We can win a missile war, but not a land war
[d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.net image 850x850]


I read the article (yes, I know, I'll flog myself here shortly) but the idea would be to not get in any land wars, but basically turn it into a naval engagement with the help of the Taiwanese and Japanese. Without a good blue-water navy, the Chinese would basically be cut off from doing anything outside of their own country.

It's going to take a NATO-like organization in Asia and the Pacific to force a reformist stance in Beijing. We have someone utterly incapable of making that happen in the White House right now.
 
2020-05-06 2:43:37 PM  
4 votes:

waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?


Area effect weapons.
Don't think every Chinese can run into a battle with a gun either, that's a major fallacy. Do you think they are somehow going to suddenly dump 200 million armed, combat ready soldiers on our shores? Really? How?
Technology is still the answer.
 
2020-05-06 2:38:44 PM  
4 votes:
China might want to slow down on their rhetoric of "watch yourself" a bit. We fully expect to have an adult in charge shorty. We all know Diaper Donny is a joke, but don't count on laughterOL too much longer... he's really screwed the pooch with his whole botched C-19 management, and that's not going to be forgotten in 6 months.
Hell, it will still be here in 6 months...
 
2020-05-06 2:38:32 PM  
4 votes:

waxbeans: powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.

Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?


Because Trump realized (correctly) that it'd be a good issue to campaign on.

Now, he's a creature of the system that got us in bed with China, and he's an orange sac of pus, but it's a brilliant campaign stance, and it brings up some good questions, even if you disagree with the reasons why he's pursuing it. Why are we actively selling out our position as the economic world leader to get cheap plastic shiat? Why are we making things in a land with no environmental protections while we experience environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale? Why are we sending business to a country that would gladly kill us all if we could get away with it, while a decent percentage of our small towns and cities face dilapidation and decay and thousands of Americans die deaths of despair every year that could possibly be mitigated with higher rates of gainful employment and economic growth outside of major urban centers?

Because we've sold out democracy for capitalism, and globalism is the preferred tool for doing that.
 
2020-05-06 2:30:54 PM  
4 votes:
I'm having a hard time feeling upset about this.  I mean, I'm no hawk (per se); but if China is building up its ballistic arsenal and telling the US "no you can't also face a potential threat by meeting our challenge," well, sorry, China, but I have to back the Pentagon on this one.
 
2020-05-06 3:42:38 PM  
3 votes:

waxbeans: I've got 1000 dvdR of porn.
Enough porn to never see all of it in my life time .


A cautionary tale:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-06 3:27:13 PM  
3 votes:

BolshyGreatYarblocks: If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?


FTFA: China derived an advantage because it was not party to a Cold War-era treaty - the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) - that banned the United States and Russia from possessing ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges from 500 kilometers to 5,500 kilometers. Unrestrained by the INF pact, China has deployed about 2,000 of these weapons, according to U.S. and other Western estimates.
 
2020-05-06 3:20:25 PM  
3 votes:

waxbeans: Marine1: OldJames: We can win a missile war, but not a land war
[d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.net image 850x850]

I read the article (yes, I know, I'll flog myself here shortly) but the idea would be to not get in any land wars, but basically turn it into a naval engagement with the help of the Taiwanese and Japanese. Without a good blue-water navy, the Chinese would basically be cut off from doing anything outside of their own country.

It's going to take a NATO-like organization in Asia and the Pacific to force a reformist stance in Beijing. We have someone utterly incapable of making that happen in the White House right now.

Just ignore China's got factories it can change to anything they want to. They can hold up to a blockage.


Factories are notorious targets.
 
2020-05-06 2:52:13 PM  
3 votes:

doomjesse: I know this one... Ask General Custer...because he left the Gatling gun at home? No that's not right we're 'Muricans we don't lose.  Ask General MacArthur because he provoked the Chinese before?


China had decided to enter the war before Mac even landed at Inchon. It was decided once they saw the UN was going to stick it out in South Korea and not evacuate.
 
2020-05-06 2:32:45 PM  
3 votes:

powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.


Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?
 
2020-05-06 6:49:09 PM  
2 votes:
If we go to war with China, so will India. They have had their own border conflicts and China has been trying to build a road to cut part of India off from the rest in the mountains. India has its own carrier and is building another IIRC.

Look, any war in that area involving China is going to quickly engulf all of Asia and the Pacific. Maybe a handful of small inaccessible (islands or mountain) countries will remain largely clear of participation but nobody there prefers China to the US except North Korea. The military junta ruling Myanmar held elections to get into Obama's good graces because China scared them so much. Vietnam, Thailand, even Cambodia would prefer to be on our side if a war broke out.

This could indeed become a different version of NATO. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Myanmar, India, Vietnam, Cambodia, the US, New Zealand, Papau New Guinea, and those are the ones that favor us more than they favor China. Philippines and Indonesia are much more likely to avoid such entanglements with us I think, both are rather reluctant to be seen in our company.

To say all of this rests on the US is kind of...well, insulting to the other countries over there to whom China poses an existential risk. We sell our weapons to many of these countries because of the threat China poses to them. They would be the front lines. Sure, we bring a LOT to the table but without having the other countries there we wouldn't even be discussing this stuff. We'd have one really feasible way to respond to Chinese aggression.
 
2020-05-06 5:22:43 PM  
2 votes:

The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.


TRUTH...shiatty, but TRUTH. We opened the world's sealanes to global commerce and have kept them open since 44 and the Bretton Woods conference. China used that.But now they want to dominate it all to another purpose. Sensible people don't have much faith in the benevolence of totalitarian regimes.
 
2020-05-06 4:32:03 PM  
2 votes:

waxbeans: Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful

People watched the Abomb be sit off. So is it that far fetched?


It depends on how far away you are.
Genie Missile Test
Youtube 1VZ7FQHTaR4
 
2020-05-06 4:17:09 PM  
2 votes:

johnny_vegas: BolshyGreatYarblocks: If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?

Partly it's because the US funds a global presence while the PRC mostly funds an Indo-Pacific presence.


PRC is buying half of Africa... talk to the cabbies in Chicago ... the ones from Nigeria and other countries.. They will tell you China is invading.. .economically
 
2020-05-06 3:47:47 PM  
2 votes:

johnny_vegas: BolshyGreatYarblocks: If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?

Partly it's because the US funds a global presence while the PRC mostly funds an Indo-Pacific presence.


Also partly because we have to pay engineers to design the things, and the CPC mostly just has to pay hackers to steal our designs.
 
2020-05-06 3:26:49 PM  
2 votes:
"Re-arming"? If we're just "re-arming", I REALLY don't want to see the taxes and the fraud for arming.

Wonder how many F-35s being cancelled would fully fund the Post Office.
 
2020-05-06 3:08:08 PM  
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful


I have good wifi, so my fap-in-place plan is secure.  If attacked, I want to be one of the people who "died doing what he loved".
 
2020-05-06 2:32:23 PM  
2 votes:

waxbeans: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Military City USA right here.
Grew up with an airForce base on each side of my neighbor. And many more other military bases in the city.
No way this city didn't get hit, day one.


Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived.  Then I moved to Northern Maine with Loring only a stone's throw away, too.
 
2020-05-06 2:29:03 PM  
2 votes:

fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.


Military City USA right here.
Grew up with an airForce base on each side of my neighbor. And many more other military bases in the city.
No way this city didn't get hit, day one.
 
2020-05-06 8:43:53 PM  
1 vote:
BolloxReader:This could indeed become a different version of NATO. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Myanmar, India, Vietnam, Cambodia, the US, New Zealand, Papau New Guinea, and those are the ones that favor us more than they favor China.

The Pacific Ocean Trade And Treaty Organization

POTATO.
 
2020-05-06 6:44:39 PM  
1 vote:
"The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because, the Cold War's been over for 20 years."
---B. Hussein Obama
 
2020-05-06 5:55:18 PM  
1 vote:

dogsafark: waxbeans: powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.

Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?

it happened when businesses outsourced for cheap labor and now China has a one-source monopoly for the material production of lots of shiat, and for the CCP to enable their longevity, they're trying to dominate everything with the leverage that gives them.


Thanks business ppl. Good job.
 
2020-05-06 3:43:43 PM  
1 vote:

Percise1: . They have numbers, and some tech... that's about all.


That's all Hitler had.
He annex all of Europe!
Hell, if he'd not gone after Russia and if Japan had been less aggressive, he'd been in power for his whole life.
The US didn't care, for way too long. We even sent Jews back.
So yeah, I don't see why China couldn't do the same, if they decide to.
 
2020-05-06 3:43:04 PM  
1 vote:

BolshyGreatYarblocks: If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?


Partly it's because the US funds a global presence while the PRC mostly funds an Indo-Pacific presence.
 
2020-05-06 3:29:00 PM  
1 vote:
Something else to consider in the strategic calculus for Asia:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-06 3:24:41 PM  
1 vote:

waxbeans: Percise1: waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?

Area effect weapons.
Don't think every Chinese can run into a battle with a gun either, that's a major fallacy. Do you think they are somehow going to suddenly dump 200 million armed, combat ready soldiers on our shores? Really? How?
Technology is still the answer.

I don't see, if sufficiently provoked, why they would not annex all of Asia and than, be able to go at it.
China would do what Stalin did. Fling lives at it and win.


Because there are other people that live there? They might take objection to that as well...
I'm not sure why you think China is some monolithic, unstoppable state. They have numbers, and some tech... that's about all.
 
2020-05-06 3:16:47 PM  
1 vote:

ThatsUnfortunate: Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful

I have good wifi, so my fap-in-place plan is secure.  If attacked, I want to be one of the people who "died doing what he loved".


Hope you downloaded all your furrie porn because there will be no internet.
 
2020-05-06 3:05:46 PM  
1 vote:

toetag: xanadian: Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived

I had fun growing up.  Most of my time was spent int the "nuclear triangle" (DC - Richmond - Virginia Beach). I was 5-10 minutes from 3-4 bases, just over in Norfolk, many more Naval stations.

Then we moved to Germany. 1000's of Russian tanks ready to crash the borders.

/not sure if "nuclear triangle" is/was a thing. it's just what we called it.


Back in the 60s my dad spent his stint in the Army in the Berlin Brigade. During his check in process his CO told him the Soviets had 500 artillery pieces pre-targeted to the allied side of Berlin, and that they were only expected to last long enough to get a warning message off.

No he didn't sleep well for the first few months there.
 
2020-05-06 3:02:15 PM  
1 vote:

doomjesse: waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?

I know this one... Ask General Custer...because he left the Gatling gun at home? No that's not right we're 'Muricans we don't lose.  Ask General MacArthur because he provoked the Chinese before?


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor​y​/redacted-testimony-fully-explains-why​-general-macarthur-was-fired-180960622​/

That was insightful
 
2020-05-06 2:57:51 PM  
1 vote:
It was the tail-end of the cold war, but I lived about 60 miles from Oak Ridge. Not sure if that was a high-value target by the mid-80's, but it certainly would have made for fallout fun
 
2020-05-06 2:54:34 PM  
1 vote:

Marine1: Why are we actively selling out our position as the economic world leader to get cheap plastic shiat? Why are we making things in a land with no environmental protections while we experience environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale? Why are we sending business to a country that would gladly kill us all if we could get away with it, while a decent percentage of our small towns and cities face dilapidation and decay and thousands of Americans die deaths of despair every year that could possibly be mitigated with higher rates of gainful employment and economic growth outside of major urban centers?


Thank you for posting that but beware of the fark pro CCP cawk suckers here.
 
2020-05-06 2:53:36 PM  
1 vote:
We can win a missile war, but not a land war
d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.netView Full Size
 
2020-05-06 2:52:27 PM  
1 vote:

waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?


Lots of big bombs that can be delivered via missiles and guarantee destruction and hope the Chinese don't have a death wish.  Seeing as they don't believe in an afterlife with 76 virgins they might not.
 
2020-05-06 2:52:25 PM  
1 vote:

Marine1: waxbeans: powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.

Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?

Because Trump realized (correctly) that it'd be a good issue to campaign on.

Now, he's a creature of the system that got us in bed with China, and he's an orange sac of pus, but it's a brilliant campaign stance, and it brings up some good questions, even if you disagree with the reasons why he's pursuing it. Why are we actively selling out our position as the economic world leader to get cheap plastic shiat? Why are we making things in a land with no environmental protections while we experience environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale? Why are we sending business to a country that would gladly kill us all if we could get away with it, while a decent percentage of our small towns and cities face dilapidation and decay and thousands of Americans die deaths of despair every year that could possibly be mitigated with higher rates of gainful employment and economic growth outside of major urban centers?

Because we've sold out democracy for capitalism, and globalism is the preferred tool for doing that.


Sure.
But,
Don't ignore, the fact that our board leaders/CEOs do all that to save money and deliver shareholders $$$$$$$$.
And that is our so called freedom.
The government may be facilitating all that but they're not forcing anyone to do any of that.
So that is on owners.
Everyone else is just a victim.

Same thing with real estate. Those are choices. People buy all the homes driving up prices. Creating poverty so they can be not for.
and everyone's okay with it because they might get to be the jerk doing that to others.
 
2020-05-06 2:47:40 PM  
1 vote:

xanadian: Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived


I had fun growing up.  Most of my time was spent int the "nuclear triangle" (DC - Richmond - Virginia Beach). I was 5-10 minutes from 3-4 bases, just over in Norfolk, many more Naval stations.

Then we moved to Germany. 1000's of Russian tanks ready to crash the borders.

/not sure if "nuclear triangle" is/was a thing. it's just what we called it.
 
2020-05-06 2:45:43 PM  
1 vote:

Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful


We had "earthquake drills" when I was in school. We'd have been vaporized probably before our optic nerves even registered the flash.

I watched WarGames in a theater that was inside one of the first splat zones...
 
2020-05-06 2:33:37 PM  
1 vote:
We even have a "Missile Gap" in play.

People starving and dying? So what! We have a Missile Gap!
 
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