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(Reuters)   For those missing the Cold War, we've got some good news   (reuters.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Cruise missile, United States Marine Corps, wide missile gap, U.S. warships, cruise missiles, Ballistic missile, March of senior U.S., long-range  
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3826 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 06 May 2020 at 2:17 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-06 1:56:38 PM  
Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.
 
2020-05-06 2:03:09 PM  
We haven't had a missile gap since I was a child.  It's very exciting.
 
2020-05-06 2:04:05 PM  

fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.


Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful
 
2020-05-06 2:20:22 PM  
If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.
 
2020-05-06 2:26:36 PM  
We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.
 
2020-05-06 2:28:57 PM  

fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.


Heck most of us Gen-Expendable could tell you what was Ground Zero in our towns. For me it was a high school that if a 10 megaton air burst went off over it the blast alone would take out a SAC base, a Logistics base and a SpecOps base as well as an Army Depot and a nuclear power plant. Amazingly ALL of those things are gone now -- without a nuke. It took the inept flimflammery of Dianne "Forever" Feinstein, our wonderful Republican Senator with a sneaky D in front of her name to accomplish that feat.

/ I despise her, we need real Democrats, and no Harris barely counts as one herself.
 
2020-05-06 2:29:03 PM  

fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.


Military City USA right here.
Grew up with an airForce base on each side of my neighbor. And many more other military bases in the city.
No way this city didn't get hit, day one.
 
2020-05-06 2:30:12 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful


People watched the Abomb be sit off. So is it that far fetched?
 
2020-05-06 2:30:54 PM  
I'm having a hard time feeling upset about this.  I mean, I'm no hawk (per se); but if China is building up its ballistic arsenal and telling the US "no you can't also face a potential threat by meeting our challenge," well, sorry, China, but I have to back the Pentagon on this one.
 
2020-05-06 2:31:39 PM  

The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.


How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?
 
2020-05-06 2:32:23 PM  

waxbeans: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Military City USA right here.
Grew up with an airForce base on each side of my neighbor. And many more other military bases in the city.
No way this city didn't get hit, day one.


Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived.  Then I moved to Northern Maine with Loring only a stone's throw away, too.
 
2020-05-06 2:32:38 PM  

powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.


There's a very real chance that we don't get adults in the big house, because America is not a country of adults. Neither is China.
 
2020-05-06 2:32:45 PM  

powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.


Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?
 
2020-05-06 2:33:37 PM  
We even have a "Missile Gap" in play.

People starving and dying? So what! We have a Missile Gap!
 
2020-05-06 2:38:32 PM  

waxbeans: powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.

Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?


Because Trump realized (correctly) that it'd be a good issue to campaign on.

Now, he's a creature of the system that got us in bed with China, and he's an orange sac of pus, but it's a brilliant campaign stance, and it brings up some good questions, even if you disagree with the reasons why he's pursuing it. Why are we actively selling out our position as the economic world leader to get cheap plastic shiat? Why are we making things in a land with no environmental protections while we experience environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale? Why are we sending business to a country that would gladly kill us all if we could get away with it, while a decent percentage of our small towns and cities face dilapidation and decay and thousands of Americans die deaths of despair every year that could possibly be mitigated with higher rates of gainful employment and economic growth outside of major urban centers?

Because we've sold out democracy for capitalism, and globalism is the preferred tool for doing that.
 
2020-05-06 2:38:44 PM  
China might want to slow down on their rhetoric of "watch yourself" a bit. We fully expect to have an adult in charge shorty. We all know Diaper Donny is a joke, but don't count on laughterOL too much longer... he's really screwed the pooch with his whole botched C-19 management, and that's not going to be forgotten in 6 months.
Hell, it will still be here in 6 months...
 
2020-05-06 2:39:17 PM  

waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?


I know this one... Ask General Custer...because he left the Gatling gun at home? No that's not right we're 'Muricans we don't lose.  Ask General MacArthur because he provoked the Chinese before?
 
2020-05-06 2:43:37 PM  

waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?


Area effect weapons.
Don't think every Chinese can run into a battle with a gun either, that's a major fallacy. Do you think they are somehow going to suddenly dump 200 million armed, combat ready soldiers on our shores? Really? How?
Technology is still the answer.
 
2020-05-06 2:44:18 PM  

Percise1: waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?

Area effect weapons.
Don't think every Chinese can run into a battle with a gun either, that's a major fallacy. Do you think they are somehow going to suddenly dump 200 million armed, combat ready soldiers on our shores? Really? How?
Technology is still the answer.


They don't have as many ICBMs as we do, but you don't need that many ICBMs to get your point across.
 
2020-05-06 2:45:43 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful


We had "earthquake drills" when I was in school. We'd have been vaporized probably before our optic nerves even registered the flash.

I watched WarGames in a theater that was inside one of the first splat zones...
 
2020-05-06 2:46:32 PM  
China never stopped being hostile, if you've actually been paying attention to their military moves.
 
2020-05-06 2:47:40 PM  

xanadian: Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived


I had fun growing up.  Most of my time was spent int the "nuclear triangle" (DC - Richmond - Virginia Beach). I was 5-10 minutes from 3-4 bases, just over in Norfolk, many more Naval stations.

Then we moved to Germany. 1000's of Russian tanks ready to crash the borders.

/not sure if "nuclear triangle" is/was a thing. it's just what we called it.
 
2020-05-06 2:52:13 PM  

doomjesse: I know this one... Ask General Custer...because he left the Gatling gun at home? No that's not right we're 'Muricans we don't lose.  Ask General MacArthur because he provoked the Chinese before?


China had decided to enter the war before Mac even landed at Inchon. It was decided once they saw the UN was going to stick it out in South Korea and not evacuate.
 
2020-05-06 2:52:25 PM  

Marine1: waxbeans: powhound: We lost the trade war, ain't no way no how anybody "wins" a land war in Asia, and what's left? Nuking the place?

I don't agree with the Chinese aggression against Taiwan and the local islands outside of their territorial waters. That's how Japan started their expansion. It needs to be curbed but at the table, not using a launch button. In other words we will need to wait until we have adults in the big house.

Why did we get in a trade war with people we've had business with since NIXON????? WTF?

Because Trump realized (correctly) that it'd be a good issue to campaign on.

Now, he's a creature of the system that got us in bed with China, and he's an orange sac of pus, but it's a brilliant campaign stance, and it brings up some good questions, even if you disagree with the reasons why he's pursuing it. Why are we actively selling out our position as the economic world leader to get cheap plastic shiat? Why are we making things in a land with no environmental protections while we experience environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale? Why are we sending business to a country that would gladly kill us all if we could get away with it, while a decent percentage of our small towns and cities face dilapidation and decay and thousands of Americans die deaths of despair every year that could possibly be mitigated with higher rates of gainful employment and economic growth outside of major urban centers?

Because we've sold out democracy for capitalism, and globalism is the preferred tool for doing that.


Sure.
But,
Don't ignore, the fact that our board leaders/CEOs do all that to save money and deliver shareholders $$$$$$$$.
And that is our so called freedom.
The government may be facilitating all that but they're not forcing anyone to do any of that.
So that is on owners.
Everyone else is just a victim.

Same thing with real estate. Those are choices. People buy all the homes driving up prices. Creating poverty so they can be not for.
and everyone's okay with it because they might get to be the jerk doing that to others.
 
2020-05-06 2:52:27 PM  

waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?


Lots of big bombs that can be delivered via missiles and guarantee destruction and hope the Chinese don't have a death wish.  Seeing as they don't believe in an afterlife with 76 virgins they might not.
 
2020-05-06 2:53:36 PM  
We can win a missile war, but not a land war
d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.netView Full Size
 
2020-05-06 2:54:34 PM  

Marine1: Why are we actively selling out our position as the economic world leader to get cheap plastic shiat? Why are we making things in a land with no environmental protections while we experience environmental destruction on an unprecedented scale? Why are we sending business to a country that would gladly kill us all if we could get away with it, while a decent percentage of our small towns and cities face dilapidation and decay and thousands of Americans die deaths of despair every year that could possibly be mitigated with higher rates of gainful employment and economic growth outside of major urban centers?


Thank you for posting that but beware of the fark pro CCP cawk suckers here.
 
2020-05-06 2:57:30 PM  

OldJames: We can win a missile war, but not a land war
[d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.net image 850x850]


I read the article (yes, I know, I'll flog myself here shortly) but the idea would be to not get in any land wars, but basically turn it into a naval engagement with the help of the Taiwanese and Japanese. Without a good blue-water navy, the Chinese would basically be cut off from doing anything outside of their own country.

It's going to take a NATO-like organization in Asia and the Pacific to force a reformist stance in Beijing. We have someone utterly incapable of making that happen in the White House right now.
 
2020-05-06 2:57:51 PM  
It was the tail-end of the cold war, but I lived about 60 miles from Oak Ridge. Not sure if that was a high-value target by the mid-80's, but it certainly would have made for fallout fun
 
2020-05-06 3:02:15 PM  

doomjesse: waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?

I know this one... Ask General Custer...because he left the Gatling gun at home? No that's not right we're 'Muricans we don't lose.  Ask General MacArthur because he provoked the Chinese before?


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor​y​/redacted-testimony-fully-explains-why​-general-macarthur-was-fired-180960622​/

That was insightful
 
2020-05-06 3:05:12 PM  

The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.


Kiiiiiinda. The last thing China wants is a conflict with the US over ocean access. The fight would be on their doorstep, we still have more global reach, and they are more dependent on transoceanic trade than we are.

The explicit goal of CPC military buildup is coercive reunification with Taiwan, and the implicit goal is developing the ability to secure China's own sea lanes to its resource suppliers in the Gulf and Africa. The furthest into the Pacific China has any real interest in reaching is Guam, and then only to prevent the US from farking with its actual goals.

Now, obviously this runs counter to the US Navy's core interest of free and open ocean navigation, and nobody outside of China wants TSMC's technology to get expropriated by the mainland. But the countries that China is actually challenging here are Japan and Korea. A China that can independently secure sea lanes in the SCS is also a China that can blockade Japan, Korea, the Philippines, and Vietnam on a whim.
 
2020-05-06 3:05:26 PM  

Percise1: waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?

Area effect weapons.
Don't think every Chinese can run into a battle with a gun either, that's a major fallacy. Do you think they are somehow going to suddenly dump 200 million armed, combat ready soldiers on our shores? Really? How?
Technology is still the answer.


I don't see, if sufficiently provoked, why they would not annex all of Asia and than, be able to go at it.
China would do what Stalin did. Fling lives at it and win.
 
2020-05-06 3:05:46 PM  

toetag: xanadian: Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived

I had fun growing up.  Most of my time was spent int the "nuclear triangle" (DC - Richmond - Virginia Beach). I was 5-10 minutes from 3-4 bases, just over in Norfolk, many more Naval stations.

Then we moved to Germany. 1000's of Russian tanks ready to crash the borders.

/not sure if "nuclear triangle" is/was a thing. it's just what we called it.


Back in the 60s my dad spent his stint in the Army in the Berlin Brigade. During his check in process his CO told him the Soviets had 500 artillery pieces pre-targeted to the allied side of Berlin, and that they were only expected to last long enough to get a warning message off.

No he didn't sleep well for the first few months there.
 
2020-05-06 3:08:08 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful


I have good wifi, so my fap-in-place plan is secure.  If attacked, I want to be one of the people who "died doing what he loved".
 
2020-05-06 3:11:12 PM  

Marine1: OldJames: We can win a missile war, but not a land war
[d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.net image 850x850]

I read the article (yes, I know, I'll flog myself here shortly) but the idea would be to not get in any land wars, but basically turn it into a naval engagement with the help of the Taiwanese and Japanese. Without a good blue-water navy, the Chinese would basically be cut off from doing anything outside of their own country.

It's going to take a NATO-like organization in Asia and the Pacific to force a reformist stance in Beijing. We have someone utterly incapable of making that happen in the White House right now.


Just ignore China's got factories it can change to anything they want to. They can hold up to a blockage.
 
2020-05-06 3:14:51 PM  
If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?
 
2020-05-06 3:16:47 PM  

ThatsUnfortunate: Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful

I have good wifi, so my fap-in-place plan is secure.  If attacked, I want to be one of the people who "died doing what he loved".


Hope you downloaded all your furrie porn because there will be no internet.
 
2020-05-06 3:20:19 PM  

Gleeman: toetag: xanadian: Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived

I had fun growing up.  Most of my time was spent int the "nuclear triangle" (DC - Richmond - Virginia Beach). I was 5-10 minutes from 3-4 bases, just over in Norfolk, many more Naval stations.

Then we moved to Germany. 1000's of Russian tanks ready to crash the borders.

/not sure if "nuclear triangle" is/was a thing. it's just what we called it.

Back in the 60s my dad spent his stint in the Army in the Berlin Brigade. During his check in process his CO told him the Soviets had 500 artillery pieces pre-targeted to the allied side of Berlin, and that they were only expected to last long enough to get a warning message off.

No he didn't sleep well for the first few months there.


Yeah they were pretty much known as a speedbump. Had family stationed there in the mid 70's.
 
2020-05-06 3:20:22 PM  
Only 57 more years to go. Think I'll stock up on bottles, the kinds with nice metal caps.
 
2020-05-06 3:20:25 PM  

waxbeans: Marine1: OldJames: We can win a missile war, but not a land war
[d3qdvvkm3r2z1i.cloudfront.net image 850x850]

I read the article (yes, I know, I'll flog myself here shortly) but the idea would be to not get in any land wars, but basically turn it into a naval engagement with the help of the Taiwanese and Japanese. Without a good blue-water navy, the Chinese would basically be cut off from doing anything outside of their own country.

It's going to take a NATO-like organization in Asia and the Pacific to force a reformist stance in Beijing. We have someone utterly incapable of making that happen in the White House right now.

Just ignore China's got factories it can change to anything they want to. They can hold up to a blockage.


Factories are notorious targets.
 
2020-05-06 3:24:41 PM  

waxbeans: Percise1: waxbeans: The Googles Do Nothing: If we are realistic we need to prepare for a military challenge from China.

How does one prepare for being attacked by a force that has up out numbered 10 to one?

Area effect weapons.
Don't think every Chinese can run into a battle with a gun either, that's a major fallacy. Do you think they are somehow going to suddenly dump 200 million armed, combat ready soldiers on our shores? Really? How?
Technology is still the answer.

I don't see, if sufficiently provoked, why they would not annex all of Asia and than, be able to go at it.
China would do what Stalin did. Fling lives at it and win.


Because there are other people that live there? They might take objection to that as well...
I'm not sure why you think China is some monolithic, unstoppable state. They have numbers, and some tech... that's about all.
 
2020-05-06 3:26:49 PM  
"Re-arming"? If we're just "re-arming", I REALLY don't want to see the taxes and the fraud for arming.

Wonder how many F-35s being cancelled would fully fund the Post Office.
 
2020-05-06 3:27:13 PM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?


FTFA: China derived an advantage because it was not party to a Cold War-era treaty - the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) - that banned the United States and Russia from possessing ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges from 500 kilometers to 5,500 kilometers. Unrestrained by the INF pact, China has deployed about 2,000 of these weapons, according to U.S. and other Western estimates.
 
2020-05-06 3:29:00 PM  
Something else to consider in the strategic calculus for Asia:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-06 3:35:14 PM  

toetag: xanadian: Davis-Monthan was less than a mile from where I lived

I had fun growing up.  Most of my time was spent int the "nuclear triangle" (DC - Richmond - Virginia Beach). I was 5-10 minutes from 3-4 bases, just over in Norfolk, many more Naval stations.

Then we moved to Germany. 1000's of Russian tanks ready to crash the borders.

/not sure if "nuclear triangle" is/was a thing. it's just what we called it.


The great thing about the County is just how damn f*cking close we are to Moscow.

/moose, potatoes and missiles
 
2020-05-06 3:37:02 PM  

waxbeans: Just ignore China's got factories it can change to anything they want to. They can hold up to a blockage.


Blockade. Not really. They still need to import oil and raw materials. They first have to overcome the problem that their currency is nonconvertible so they will have to burn through there forex reserves and gold. Then when you look at where they get their oil from only some of it is through non shipping means i.e. pipeline. And I don't think Russia is going to break their backs to export their oil to China.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-06 3:38:27 PM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: If the Pentagon gets $1 trillion a year (on books and off), every year, how the fark does a country like China with a far smaller military budget outstrip the US in missiles, or in anything?  How is this not proof of massive systemic waste, fraud and abuse justifying a sharp reduction in the Pentagon's budget, and of conducting investigations and prison sentencing for corrupt actors in the US?


Defense contractors.
Entrepreneurs are the real welfare queens.
 
2020-05-06 3:39:38 PM  

The Googles Do Nothing: ThatsUnfortunate: Marcus Aurelius: fredbox: Spending my childhood about 3 miles from a primary target, I definitely miss the adrenaline dump that came with any random set of headlights lighting up my bedroom window.

Duck and cover! and you'll be just fine.

/having a walk in fridge was also helpful

I have good wifi, so my fap-in-place plan is secure.  If attacked, I want to be one of the people who "died doing what he loved".

Hope you downloaded all your furrie porn because there will be no internet.


I've got 1000 dvdR of porn.
Enough porn to never see all of it in my life time .
 
2020-05-06 3:41:32 PM  
Quit flexing the muscle and throw a punch you pansies!
 
2020-05-06 3:42:38 PM  

waxbeans: I've got 1000 dvdR of porn.
Enough porn to never see all of it in my life time .


A cautionary tale:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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