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(Guardian)   Look, I'm not saying it's zombies.... but it's zombies   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Creepy, Oxygen, Hypoxia, oxygen levels, Pneumonia, Heart, Blood, Covid-19 patients, blood sample  
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1609 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 May 2020 at 8:05 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-05-04 6:13:44 PM  
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2020-05-04 6:36:47 PM  
I'm not that surprised to learn there's a chunk of the population who can suffer a significant loss of cognitive capacity without any observable changes in their behavior.
 
2020-05-04 6:59:14 PM  

BumpInTheNight: I'm not that surprised to learn there's a chunk of the population who can suffer a significant loss of cognitive capacity without any observable changes in their behavior.


I'd say that number is just under about 63 million.
 
2020-05-04 8:19:20 PM  
2 weeks ago we forced my father to check his O² levels because he didn't think he was too bad. His doctor didn't think he was too bad.

Upon finding out his O² was lower than dirt, his doc finally consented to testing him for covid19. 8 days later they released him from the hospital. As of a few days ago he was still on oxygen.

They find out more and more side issues with this virus every month. I think we are going to find out that whatever the morbidity actually is, the death count is twice what we are claiming.
 
2020-05-04 8:26:15 PM  
Effects of oxygen hypoxia are not a new thing.
Why You Should Put YOUR MASK On First (My Brain Without Oxygen) - Smarter Every Day 157
Youtube kUfF2MTnqAw
 
2020-05-04 8:32:10 PM  

BumpInTheNight: I'm not that surprised to learn there's a chunk of the population who can suffer a significant loss of cognitive capacity without any observable changes in their behavior.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-05-04 8:44:41 PM  
It's not just attacking the lungs, it's attacking the blood.

I suspect the low morbidity has more to do with most people being able to resist it and quietly develop antibodies. It doesn't take well to humans, but when it does it takes you down in a myriad of ways.  The problem then is that it already swept through the population and we only realized it weeks after the fact when it turned up in the target rich environments of nursing homes.
It slipped under the radar because it was not lethal enough.
 
2020-05-04 8:54:59 PM  
The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.
 
2020-05-04 9:01:33 PM  

dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.


?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.
 
2020-05-04 9:03:04 PM  

khitsicker: Effects of oxygen hypoxia are not a new thing.
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/kUfF2MTn​qAw]


My particular favorite video on hypoxia's effects:

Hypoxia - 4 of spades
Youtube UN3W4d-5RPo


"How are you feeling?"
"Four of spades, four of spades, right now."

It's like his brain just latched onto the last thing he was thinking and shut off everything else.
 
2020-05-04 9:05:07 PM  

Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.

?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.


Are they also measuring CO2?  Low O2 and Low CO2 is probably a different kind of bad than Low O2 and high CO2.  It sounds like a stupid question - and someone may actually know - but someone with clinical insight might be worth asking.
 
2020-05-04 9:14:59 PM  

dionysusaur: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.

?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.

Are they also measuring CO2?  Low O2 and Low CO2 is probably a different kind of bad than Low O2 and high CO2.  It sounds like a stupid question - and someone may actually know - but someone with clinical insight might be worth asking.


Look, I don't want to tell you it is a stupid question.

I will say, if you don't have the answer to your question in this post, your skepticism that clinicians knew what they were doing is kind of weird. Like, Trump seeing if doctors have heard of this UV strategy levels of weird.

It was my understanding that oxygen levels in the blood are low during respiratory failure while co2 is high. So I'm not sure how a device that uses light to test the blood for low oxygen could be giving a false reading of low oxygen when there was really just a "low co2" problem.

But whatever the answer to that is, I'm 99% sure if those correlate as you say they do some docs thought to check that shiat out. But again I'm fairly sure they have a negative correlation, not a positive one.
 
2020-05-04 9:25:40 PM  

Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.

?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.

Are they also measuring CO2?  Low O2 and Low CO2 is probably a different kind of bad than Low O2 and high CO2.  It sounds like a stupid question - and someone may actually know - but someone with clinical insight might be worth asking.

Look, I don't want to tell you it is a stupid question.

I will say, if you don't have the answer to your question in this post, your skepticism that clinicians knew what they were doing is kind of weird. Like, Trump seeing if doctors have heard of this UV strategy levels of weird.

It was my understanding that oxygen levels in the blood are low during respiratory failure while co2 is high. So I'm not sure how a device that uses light to test the blood for low oxygen could be giving a false reading of low oxygen when there was really just a "low co2" problem.

But whatever the answer to that is, I'm 99% sure if those correlate as you say they do some docs thought to check that shiat out. But again I'm fairly sure they have a negative correlation, not a positive one.


Thank you for your clarity - I've been in the ethanol and may have lost some insight.
 
2020-05-04 9:36:04 PM  

dionysusaur: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.

?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.

Are they also measuring CO2?  Low O2 and Low CO2 is probably a different kind of bad than Low O2 and high CO2.  It sounds like a stupid question - and someone may actually know - but someone with clinical insight might be worth asking.

Look, I don't want to tell you it is a stupid question.

I will say, if you don't have the answer to your question in this post, your skepticism that clinicians knew what they were doing is kind of weird. Like, Trump seeing if doctors have heard of this UV strategy levels of weird.

It was my understanding that oxygen levels in the blood are low during respiratory failure while co2 is high. So I'm not sure how a device that uses light to test the blood for low oxygen could be giving a false reading of low oxygen when there was really just a "low co2" problem.

But whatever the answer to that is, I'm 99% sure if those correlate as you say they do some docs thought to check that shiat out. But again I'm fairly sure they have a negative correlation, not a positive one.

Thank you for your clarity - I've been in the ethanol and may have lost some insight.


It's all good. I'll be curling 12 oz in just another 90 minutes myself.
 
2020-05-04 9:36:06 PM  
If you can get in to read it at Medscape (which apparently you can't link to on here):

COVID-19: Home Pulse Oximetry Could Be Game Changer, Says ER Doc

They say just giving people oxygen is better than a ventilator. It's safer and way cheaper.On top of that, you can dramatically increase the blood oxygen level just by flipping someone onto their stomachs instead of leaving them laying on their backs.Some places have has high as an 88% mortality rate once you get put on a ventilator. If I happen to get a case that gets that bad, I'll chance it without the ventilator. Pretty darn good chance of dying for sure on one.
 
2020-05-04 10:19:02 PM  
As of a month ago you could pick up a pulse oximeter for fairly cheap online. I'm guessing those might be gone now, but good to have one handy just in case (and be willing to share if someone near you needs it).
 
2020-05-05 12:57:22 AM  

Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.

?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.

Are they also measuring CO2?  Low O2 and Low CO2 is probably a different kind of bad than Low O2 and high CO2.  It sounds like a stupid question - and someone may actually know - but someone with clinical insight might be worth asking.

Look, I don't want to tell you it is a stupid question.

I will say, if you don't have the answer to your question in this post, your skepticism that clinicians knew what they were doing is kind of weird. Like, Trump seeing if doctors have heard of this UV strategy levels of weird.

It was my understanding that oxygen levels in the blood are low during respiratory failure while co2 is high. So I'm not sure how a device that uses light to test the blood for low oxygen could be giving a false reading of low oxygen when there was really just a "low co2" problem.

But whatever the answer to that is, I'm 99% sure if those correlate as you say they do some docs thought to check that shiat out. But again I'm fairly sure they have a negative correlation, not a positive one.


I think you two are talking past each other, The original point he brought up is that the human body can not detect low blood oxygen. The human body detects when CO2 levels get too high. Hospitals commonly check for oxygen levels.

Normally if you are low O2, then you are high CO2. It is the high CO2 part that makes you feel like you are not getting enough air. However if these patients were somehow both low O2 and low CO2 tests would show the detect the low O2 but the patients would not feel short of breath.

The question then is, how common is it to test blood CO2 levels. As O2 testing is easy and is the more important metric, CO2 testing might not be common. But I have not what the true answer is.
 
2020-05-05 3:22:23 AM  

DeonTain: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: Smackledorfer: dionysusaur: The human body (which is what I am currently driving around in) doesn't have a blood-oxygen sensor, just a CO2 sensor.  If the covid-caused blockages are unusually permeable to CO2, that sensor might not go off.  It makes me suspect that the clinically observed symptoms of low blood oxygen aren't more accurately attributed to high CO2.

?

Do you think clinics aren't using a pulse oximeter after observing symptoms?

/They are non-invasive and cost less than 50 bucks.

Are they also measuring CO2?  Low O2 and Low CO2 is probably a different kind of bad than Low O2 and high CO2.  It sounds like a stupid question - and someone may actually know - but someone with clinical insight might be worth asking.

Look, I don't want to tell you it is a stupid question.

I will say, if you don't have the answer to your question in this post, your skepticism that clinicians knew what they were doing is kind of weird. Like, Trump seeing if doctors have heard of this UV strategy levels of weird.

It was my understanding that oxygen levels in the blood are low during respiratory failure while co2 is high. So I'm not sure how a device that uses light to test the blood for low oxygen could be giving a false reading of low oxygen when there was really just a "low co2" problem.

But whatever the answer to that is, I'm 99% sure if those correlate as you say they do some docs thought to check that shiat out. But again I'm fairly sure they have a negative correlation, not a positive one.

I think you two are talking past each other, The original point he brought up is that the human body can not detect low blood oxygen. The human body detects when CO2 levels get too high. Hospitals commonly check for oxygen levels.

Normally if you are low O2, then you are high CO2. It is the high CO2 part that makes you feel like you are not getting enough air. However if these patients were somehow both low O2 and low CO2 tests would show the detect the low O2 but the patients would not feel short of breath.

The question then is, how common is it to test blood CO2 levels. As O2 testing is easy and is the more important metric, CO2 testing might not be common. But I have not what the true answer is.


But again, surely one of the clinicians involved thought this idea through if random farkers could.

I'm not sure how you get low co2 and low oxygen. If that's a thing, more knowledgeable folk than I or Dionysus have looked into it. I'm not big on appeals to authority but I'm not going to pull a trump "maybe we should use disinfectant in the lungs" either.
 
2020-05-05 11:30:02 AM  

Smackledorfer: But again, surely one of the clinicians involved thought this idea through if random farkers could.

I'm not sure how you get low co2 and low oxygen. If that's a thing, more knowledgeable folk than I or Dionysus have looked into it. I'm not big on appeals to authority but I'm not going to pull a trump "maybe we should use disinfectant in the lungs" either.


I know of two ways you can get low co2 and low oxygen at the same time neither is relevant to covid19 patients however. A common one is carbon monoxide poisoning. Instead of CO2 in the blood you get CO. The other is breathing something like nitrogen gas or helium. The lungs are then still able to expel CO2 but there is no oxygen available to replace it. But like I said neither of those apply to covid19 patients.
 
2020-05-05 12:02:16 PM  

DeonTain: Smackledorfer: But again, surely one of the clinicians involved thought this idea through if random farkers could.

I'm not sure how you get low co2 and low oxygen. If that's a thing, more knowledgeable folk than I or Dionysus have looked into it. I'm not big on appeals to authority but I'm not going to pull a trump "maybe we should use disinfectant in the lungs" either.

I know of two ways you can get low co2 and low oxygen at the same time neither is relevant to covid19 patients however. A common one is carbon monoxide poisoning. Instead of CO2 in the blood you get CO. The other is breathing something like nitrogen gas or helium. The lungs are then still able to expel CO2 but there is no oxygen available to replace it. But like I said neither of those apply to covid19 patients.


Makes sense, I hadn't really considered things outside the realm of breathing standard air at all.
 
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