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(The New York Times)   He is Amash, he is Justin Amash. Justin Amash, a presidential smash? Justin Amash? We'll find out in a flash. If he's Amash, President J. Amash   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Libertarianism, Ron Paul, Democratic Party, Candidate, Libertarian Party, Bob Barr, Elections, Mr. Amash  
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989 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Apr 2020 at 7:25 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-04-29 2:32:08 AM  
Running as a Libertarian will hopefully siphon off Trump voters.
 
2020-04-29 2:57:50 AM  
A relevant portion of Running Against the Devil: A Plot to Save America from Trump -- and Democrats from Themselves.

-----

A meaningful fraction of the Green Party candidates you see in races around the country are creations of people like me. Not all of them, to be sure, but enough. They can break off 3 or 4 percent in the odd race here and there, particularly in swing districts. There are GOP consultants who specialize in finding the local college-age dipshiat who wants to sit in his apartment, smoke weed, and play Fortnite in exchange for a check for his "campaign committee."

...

Some smart Democratic-leaning billionaires need to dump some real qwan into building out some shiny third-party options for the crazies on the right. The cost is relatively low and the friction they cause is delicious. Since we're looking at states where Donald Trump's margins are already razor-thin, I'm going to outline a few quick real and fake third-party options in which a few million dollars would pump enough randomness into the process to make a difference.

AMPLIFY THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY

The Party of Ayn Rand is a real party, on the ballot in fifty states. Good Lord, I know how farking irritating they can be, but there's a smart play here. Some smart investments in boosting the LP in key states could have a massive return on investment...without having to build a new fake conservative-party infrastructure nationally. Libertarian Party voters are almost exclusively going to draw down from Trump's vote total.

The Libertarians mount campaigns of greater or lesser seriousness depending on the political climate of the moment. There are a little over half a million Libertarians registered across the nation, which comprises about a half a percent of all voters.

Trivial, you say? Hold still, because I need to slap some reality into you.

Donald Trump's margin of victory in the swing states that moved the Electoral College into his column was infinitesimal. Of the 137 million votes cast in 2016's election from hell, just 107,000 votes in three states decided the race.

The ticket of Gary ("What is Aleppo?") Johnson and Bill Weld, which reflected skepticism about Donald Trump's commitment to anything even in the same neighborhood of Libertarian Party commitments to free markets and individual liberty, was, by any third-party standard, a success. Johnson and Weld took in over 4.4 million votes, or 3.24 percent of the popular vote total. It was a high-water mark for Libertarian presidential candidates to date. They raised more money, got more media attention, and drew down more votes than any LP nominee had before.

Given their 2016 performance, the LP also secured ballot access for 2018 and 2020 to a degree that no third party in the past century was able to do, and that's important for the 2020 election in big and small ways.

Best-case scenario? Justin Amash follows his heart, runs for the LP nomination, and gives libertarian conservatives and disaffected Republicans a clean conservative option in 2020. Hell, if Amash got on the debate stage à la Ross Perot in 1992, the game would become much more interesting.

-----

There are other segments in there about third parties and spoilers (including Democrats killing their own off) but we'll just go with that since it specifically mentioned this scenario.

Whether you believe in conservative principles or not, if you dislike President Donald Trump your best move is to support Representative Justin Amash. It doesn't matter whether you want Representative Amash to win or even if you somehow truly think he can, what is pertinent are the things you need to focus on in order to not have President Trump get a second term.
 
2020-04-29 3:22:02 AM  
thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2020-04-29 7:12:10 AM  
Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.
 
2020-04-29 7:20:56 AM  
Lot of (I think) unearned optimism in this thread. He's not going to peel off Trump supporters. There are no reasonable Trump supporters. Amash gives non-Trump conservatives a way to not vote for Trump but still not have to vote for the hurrdurr librul Joe Biden, peeling off critical votes in swing states. This happened in 2016, when Trump "won" by eking out about 100,000 votes across six swing states with razor-thin margins, giving him those EC votes and hence the entire election.

If Amash goes beyond an exploratory committee and actually puts his name on the ballot, he will be Jill Stein 2.0 and you can thank him for four more years of this living hell.
 
2020-04-29 7:26:44 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-29 7:30:31 AM  
Do it, buddy - please!
 
2020-04-29 7:30:40 AM  
Someone needs to run as the Christian Right party nominee. Get a Huckabee type loon. That's how you siphon RWNJ votes.

/ that or a true Nazi part candidate
 
2020-04-29 7:31:02 AM  
I don't trust a republicans that pretend not to be republicans. fark them
 
2020-04-29 7:32:11 AM  

solokumba: I don't trust a republicans that pretend not to be republicans. fark them


Your first sentence could be six words shorter
 
2020-04-29 7:38:33 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.


The only people open minded enough to vote 3rd party are Democrats.  Just watch.
 
2020-04-29 7:38:53 AM  

NeedlesslyCanadian: Lot of (I think) unearned optimism in this thread. He's not going to peel off Trump supporters. There are no reasonable Trump supporters. Amash gives non-Trump conservatives a way to not vote for Trump but still not have to vote for the hurrdurr librul Joe Biden, peeling off critical votes in swing states. This happened in 2016, when Trump "won" by eking out about 100,000 votes across six swing states with razor-thin margins, giving him those EC votes and hence the entire election.

If Amash goes beyond an exploratory committee and actually puts his name on the ballot, he will be Jill Stein 2.0 and you can thank him for four more years of this living hell.


Most of those people probably just wouldn't vote for president, maybe not at all. I've always found it odd that, in a country with so many non-voters, there is this baked in assumption in political discussions that third-party voters would vote if their preferred candidate wasn't in the race. I've never been convinced that Jill Stein voters would have EVER voted for Clinton, and it's strange that people just assume they would.
 
2020-04-29 7:39:37 AM  
He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.
 
2020-04-29 7:39:46 AM  

WoodyHayes: A relevant portion of Running Against the Devil: A Plot to Save America from Trump -- and Democrats from Themselves.

-----

A meaningful fraction of the Green Party candidates you see in races around the country are creations of people like me. Not all of them, to be sure, but enough. They can break off 3 or 4 percent in the odd race here and there, particularly in swing districts. There are GOP consultants who specialize in finding the local college-age dipshiat who wants to sit in his apartment, smoke weed, and play Fortnite in exchange for a check for his "campaign committee."

...

Some smart Democratic-leaning billionaires need to dump some real qwan into building out some shiny third-party options for the crazies on the right. The cost is relatively low and the friction they cause is delicious. Since we're looking at states where Donald Trump's margins are already razor-thin, I'm going to outline a few quick real and fake third-party options in which a few million dollars would pump enough randomness into the process to make a difference.

AMPLIFY THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY

The Party of Ayn Rand is a real party, on the ballot in fifty states. Good Lord, I know how farking irritating they can be, but there's a smart play here. Some smart investments in boosting the LP in key states could have a massive return on investment...without having to build a new fake conservative-party infrastructure nationally. Libertarian Party voters are almost exclusively going to draw down from Trump's vote total.

The Libertarians mount campaigns of greater or lesser seriousness depending on the political climate of the moment. There are a little over half a million Libertarians registered across the nation, which comprises about a half a percent of all voters.

Trivial, you say? Hold still, because I need to slap some reality into you.

Donald Trump's margin of victory in the swing states that moved the Electoral College into his column was infinitesimal. Of the 137 million votes c ...


My good man, you just spit all that out, didn't you? I do hope that it didn't hurt you in doing so. May you and yours be safe, well, and protected, and may you live a long and fulfilled life, after having shiat out that turd.
 
2020-04-29 7:40:10 AM  

fusillade762: Running as a Libertarian will hopefully siphon off Trump voters.


I doubt it. The Republican party has gone all in as a cult of Trump.

If anything, it would probably siphon off disillusioned former Trump supporters, who would otherwise hold their nose and vote Biden.
 
2020-04-29 7:42:23 AM  

NeedlesslyCanadian: Lot of (I think) unearned optimism in this thread. He's not going to peel off Trump supporters. There are no reasonable Trump supporters. Amash gives non-Trump conservatives a way to not vote for Trump but still not have to vote for the hurrdurr librul Joe Biden, peeling off critical votes in swing states. This happened in 2016, when Trump "won" by eking out about 100,000 votes across six swing states with razor-thin margins, giving him those EC votes and hence the entire election.

If Amash goes beyond an exploratory committee and actually puts his name on the ballot, he will be Jill Stein 2.0 and you can thank him for four more years of this living hell.


I see what you're saying, but the fact that "there are no reasonable Trump supporters" would seem to suggest that Amash has a chance to peel some of them off - precisely because they are not reasonable, and their support for Trump was never based on reason. They have been pretty die-hard, but Trump fatigue is setting in and Americans are nothing if not fickle.
 
2020-04-29 7:43:05 AM  

emtwo: disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.


You motherfarkers would blame Sanders regardless
 
2020-04-29 7:44:41 AM  

DarnoKonrad: emtwo: disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

You motherfarkers would blame Sanders regardless


Well... obviously. They are still blaming Nader for 2000. Whereas (see my comment above), I doubt most Nader voters were ever going to pull the lever for Gore.
 
2020-04-29 7:45:30 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.


A ton? You underestimate the cult loyalty. I'd be happy if he got 1% of them.
 
2020-04-29 7:46:57 AM  

emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.


Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.
 
2020-04-29 7:47:43 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.


He lost. Get over it.
 
2020-04-29 7:49:24 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.


There's a "theory" among many mainstream liberals that young (particularly white male) Bernie supporters are just one step away from joining the alt-right. It's bizarre and a pretty transparent tool to undermine their point-of-view, but it's out there.
 
2020-04-29 7:50:36 AM  
My concern is that there are many out there who would vote for him because they definitely don't want to vote for Trump, but also, don't really like Biden. Voting for Amash would be internally consistent.  I think there may be enough out there it could siphon votes from Biden. I don't know. I've been up all night. Regardless, Amash running for the presidency: 
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-29 7:50:43 AM  
If I thought he'd only bleed votes from Trump, I'd say "go for it". But he's going to attract people in key states who'd otherwise vote Biden.
 
2020-04-29 7:51:04 AM  

GoldSpider: AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.

He lost. Get over it.


It would be nice if mainstream liberals were to "get over it." They bring Sanders up more than anyone, teeing up that narrative that the real villains of the election are the "Bernie Bros."
 
2020-04-29 7:51:14 AM  

DarnoKonrad: emtwo: disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

You motherfarkers would blame Sanders regardless


Who's "you motherfarkers?" I've voted for Sanders in two primaries now, and I'm not blaming him for anything.
 
2020-04-29 7:52:46 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.


Have you ever talked to real life Sanders supporters? A significant chunk of them self-describe as Libertarian for some reason (mostly ignorance).
 
2020-04-29 7:53:35 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.


You really wish there was a candidate that had no shot at beating Trump, don't you?
 
2020-04-29 7:54:30 AM  

GoldSpider: AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.

He lost. Get over it.


Snackbar is, in this one specific instance, correct. A Sanders supporter who jumps to Justin farking Amash, of all people, was never someone interested in progressive policy.
 
2020-04-29 7:54:56 AM  

eiger: AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.

There's a "theory" among many mainstream liberals that young (particularly white male) Bernie supporters are just one step away from joining the alt-right. It's bizarre and a pretty transparent tool to undermine their point-of-view, but it's out there.


"Who could possibly disagree with us!" they cry, as they deliberately prevent the United States from implementing modern first world socioeconomic policy that would save lives and improve the nation in countless ways.
 
2020-04-29 7:54:58 AM  
gal.patheticcockroach.comView Full Size
 
2020-04-29 7:56:29 AM  

eiger: GoldSpider: AdmirableSnackbar: emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

Yeah, progressives are going to vote for a regressive Tea Party Republican who stands against everything they want. That makes complete sense.

He lost. Get over it.

It would be nice if mainstream liberals were to "get over it." They bring Sanders up more than anyone, teeing up that narrative that the real villains of the election are the "Bernie Bros."


The only people I see "teeing up" that narrative are the Sanders supporters insisting everyone is going to blame them.
 
2020-04-29 7:56:36 AM  

LL316: AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.

You really wish there was a candidate that had no shot at beating Trump, don't you?


Well those were certainly words you wrote.
 
2020-04-29 7:57:51 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: LL316: AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.

You really wish there was a candidate that had no shot at beating Trump, don't you?

Well those were certainly words you wrote.


The majority of the country, by a huge margin, is in the middle.  Bernie lost because the majority of the people don't want to move that far left.  Biden is already the most far left candidate we've ever had.  STFU and be grateful you got what you wanted even if you're too stupid to realize it.
 
2020-04-29 7:59:27 AM  
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2020-04-29 8:05:53 AM  
I'm sure subby didn't meet it, but the headline reminded me of this:

"Shia LaBeouf" Live - Rob Cantor
Youtube o0u4M6vppCI


/actual cannibal Justin Amash
 
2020-04-29 8:08:17 AM  
I don't know what it is about Farkers always going beserk on third parties "spoiling" the ballot for D's.

Listen up: Not every third party voter in America is some dumb wayward liberal that falls for Russian propaganda and the like. You can lament Stein for running for the GP in 2016, and I will agree that she was definitely encouraged to do so by Putin, but the fact of the matter is that Gary Johnson had 3X her vote total consistently, and in the swing states of MI, PA, and WI.

The average Libertarian voter, generally speaking, is a Republican/right winger that's too ashamed to admit it, fed up with the optics of the R party, but not the general principles of it. Amash didn't quit the R's to go to D's, he still kept his right wing principles the whole time and still votes like it. He's running primarily to get the votes of the "Never Trump" crowd, who are still too right wing to ever vote for any Democrat, yet don't want the stench of Trump on them - think of people like Jeff Flake - who said he wouldn't vote for Trump, but at the end of the day, won't vote for Biden. Amash gives them an "out" of sorts to where they can keep their right wing credentials and yet not support Trump.

Biden is much smarter than Fark - he's not going to attack Amash for spoiling the ballot, he'll just stay mum on the issue. You're not going to get every vote available, so the best case scenario is that by being on the ballot, every Amash voter is functionally half a vote for you.
 
2020-04-29 8:08:47 AM  
Bots are hurting to signal boost him as the preferred alternative to Biden, complete with democrats for Amash bots and sock puppets aplenty.
 
2020-04-29 8:13:56 AM  
People who still prefer Trump will NOT change their minds. They are zombies at this point.

A 3rd party candidate will siphon votes from Biden.


Do you want trump??! Because this is how we get trump.
 
2020-04-29 8:14:16 AM  
America needs someone to run to the Alt Right of Trump.
 
2020-04-29 8:16:50 AM  

Antimatter: Bots are hurting to signal boost him as the preferred alternative to Biden, complete with democrats for Amash bots and sock puppets aplenty.


Well you know all those Bernie supporters who think Biden is too right wing are going to look at Amash's record and policy prescriptions and say "why yes, this is far preferable to what Democrats are offering" same as the ones saying Trump is more liberal than Biden (some of the bots may be deployed to do both: argue Biden is the most right wing candidate in the race.)
 
2020-04-29 8:17:03 AM  

emtwo: He's not going to "peel off" Republican votes by running Libertarian. Republicans know who they're voting for in November. He's going to peel off disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.


Headline: Amash running for president

You: You guys know who sucks? Sanders, amirite?
 
2020-04-29 8:17:42 AM  
If you have never seen the original it's worth the click.
Way creepier than I remembered. . .
Bobby Pickett "Monster Mash"
Youtube vNuVifA7DSU
 
2020-04-29 8:18:02 AM  

eiger: DarnoKonrad: emtwo: disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

You motherfarkers would blame Sanders regardless

Well... obviously. They are still blaming Nader for 2000. Whereas (see my comment above), I doubt most Nader voters were ever going to pull the lever for Gore.


Nader got 90,000 votes in Florida.  I think it's safe to assume that, of those 90,000, 538 would have voted for Gore.
 
2020-04-29 8:19:35 AM  

NeedlesslyCanadian: Lot of (I think) unearned optimism in this thread. He's not going to peel off Trump supporters. There are no reasonable Trump supporters. Amash gives non-Trump conservatives a way to not vote for Trump but still not have to vote for the hurrdurr librul Joe Biden, peeling off critical votes in swing states. This happened in 2016, when Trump "won" by eking out about 100,000 votes across six swing states with razor-thin margins, giving him those EC votes and hence the entire election.

If Amash goes beyond an exploratory committee and actually puts his name on the ballot, he will be Jill Stein 2.0 and you can thank him for four more years of this living hell.


Agreed.

He voted to impeach Trump. Anyone that wants to reelect the dotard won't vote for Amash instead.
 
2020-04-29 8:20:48 AM  

Stopheles: eiger: DarnoKonrad: emtwo: disaffected Sanders supporters who have their heads too far up their own asses to vote for Biden.

You motherfarkers would blame Sanders regardless

Well... obviously. They are still blaming Nader for 2000. Whereas (see my comment above), I doubt most Nader voters were ever going to pull the lever for Gore.

Nader got 90,000 votes in Florida.  I think it's safe to assume that, of those 90,000, 538 would have voted for Gore.


About 300,000 registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush. Yet Democrats blame the Nader voters who were ~1/3 that amount. Why do you blame the 90,000 and never have anything to say about the 300,000?
 
2020-04-29 8:21:29 AM  

Antimatter: Bots are hurting to signal boost him as the preferred alternative to Biden, complete with democrats for Amash bots and sock puppets aplenty.


I eagerly await their rebranding of Tea Partier Amash as some sort of progressive icon
 
2020-04-29 8:24:03 AM  

SpectroBoy: People who still prefer Trump will NOT change their minds. They are zombies at this point.

A 3rd party candidate will siphon votes from Biden.


Do you want trump??! Because this is how we get trump.


On one hand I can't fault Amash: I do think he genuinely believes that he can offer something that no other candidate currently running can, and I think him taking the positions he has was not a calculated move (this announcement would have been within days of the impeachment vote in that case.)

That said I don't see how he has a path to victory and it is clear that more high profile candidates make it easier for the candidate with the largest base of true believers to win a plurality (in the same way Biden won the nomination because the field cleared.)

We'll see how it goes: honestly shocked with how 2020 is going that the "Taxation Is Theft" dude whose YouTube commercials look like a PowerThirst ad isn't leading the LP nomination right now.
 
2020-04-29 8:27:18 AM  

DarnoKonrad: AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.

The only people open minded enough to vote 3rd party are Democrats.  Just watch.


This right here. The only reason the Libertarian Party is as popular as it is is because it holds enough left leaning views to attract independants and shave off some centrist Democrats. People think the Libertarians get Republican voters because some Republicans like to describe themselves as Libertarians but then vote Republican anyway. If Republicans were open minded enough to even consider voting third party, the Constitution Party would've got at least 8% of the vote when Evangelicals realized Trump was not a real Christian.
 
2020-04-29 8:41:26 AM  

I want that sauce Morty!: DarnoKonrad: AdmirableSnackbar: Great, he will peel off a ton of votes from Trump so the Democratic candidate is free to push left instead of trying to go after Republican votes.

The only people open minded enough to vote 3rd party are Democrats.  Just watch.

This right here. The only reason the Libertarian Party is as popular as it is is because it holds enough left leaning views to attract independants and shave off some centrist Democrats. People think the Libertarians get Republican voters because some Republicans like to describe themselves as Libertarians but then vote Republican anyway. If Republicans were open minded enough to even consider voting third party, the Constitution Party would've got at least 8% of the vote when Evangelicals realized Trump was not a real Christian.


Which left leaning views do Libertarians have? Outside of marijuana legalization (and even that isn't as liberal as it's proclaimed to be), most Libertarian mores are pretty much standard R ones, without the pretense of being under faith and family values. Moreover, L's generally are the farm team for R's who have lost their luster: most of their candidates are former R's. There's practically no ex-Democrats who jump on the L banner, they usually go straight to R.
 
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