Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Trust.org)   Australia admits coronavirus restrictions may last for a year   (news.trust.org) divider line
    More: Sick, New South Wales, Prime Minister Scott Morrison, Australia, populous state, Australian public life, United States, New Zealand, social distancing  
•       •       •

1764 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 17 Apr 2020 at 6:28 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



68 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2020-04-16 10:22:39 PM  
Good idea
 
2020-04-16 10:33:26 PM  
With what we know and don't know at the moment, that's the most logical thing I've read since this all began.
 
2020-04-16 10:50:08 PM  
Great Scenes: Waltzing Matilda Finale
Youtube l_o8vX8lGss
 
2020-04-17 3:27:51 AM  

optikeye: [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/l_o8vX8l​Gss?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=273&enablejs​api=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.co​m&widgetid=1]


Bummer it is called "Waltzing Matilda"  That is "On the Beach" 1959 post WW III
One of two cities I've lived in showing how bad it can be.

/They filmed on the Beach on a Sunday in 1950s so no one was downtown anyway.
 
2020-04-17 4:14:56 AM  
Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%. Schools in the UK were only shut down when staffing losses meant nearly a quarter of schools could not legally open due to an inability to provide the minimum ratio of adults to children. The lockdowns mostly made official what the virus had already decided: life cannot continue as normal in a pandemic. People will not willingly die to make their boss a bit richer for one last day.

People in areas that have not yet been badly hit often want to see things reopened and want to get back to work. All that would accomplish, though, is bringing the virus to those communities, which in turn will cause the same bottom-up shutdown consumers and workers cause when the virus hits any community.

I don't think a total shutdown is tenable for a year and a half, but there won't be normality for quite a while longer. My hope -- and I think a lot of governments' hopes too -- is that an antibody test / "immunity passport" system will come out soon and reveal that a much higher proportion of the population has had it and recovered with immunity than the official figures show, letting us begin targeted reopening of sectors and workplaces with a view to how prevalent the virus is in that area and how many workers would be able to leave isolation with immunity.

But without something like that, there's just no way of reopening commerce. There's no point saying "look we've got this shopping mall reopened" if absolutely nobody is going to go to it.
 
2020-04-17 6:41:10 AM  

pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%.



Perhaps 75% or more would continue if you lifted it right now or in a week or two, but middle of July, or September, I think you would see that number drop substantially.  Numbers in Washington state showed how drastic people avoided restaurants in the lead up to the eventual closing.  The governor waiting quite a while after people stopped going out, but this was as this thing was ramping up in the area.

If deaths start dropping to a couple deaths a day in each state, I think there are a lot of people who would hit the town if the orders were lifted.
 
2020-04-17 6:41:54 AM  

pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless.


The only sense I can see in it is getting everyone exposed a little bit at a time in a way that doesn't overload the hospitals.  I really doubt that that's possible, the only thing less likely to be listened to that "everyone stays home" is "everyone with a last name starting E-Z stays home".  Once they open up a little bit people will flood back out.

I also keep reading that no one has ever successfully made a vaccine for any coronavirus, which is a bit concerning.  Does anyone know if that's because coronaviruses are particularly difficult to make vaccines for, or because no one could have been bothered to get one to completion.
 
2020-04-17 6:43:56 AM  

pkjun: Until there's a vaccine

readily available testing for the disease and its antibodies...

Really, that's what is needed.

Therepudics are already in development that can mitigate hospitalization and mortality (no not the malaria drug).

A vaccine will be the icing on the cake, but that's also the hardest thing to pull off. A better understanding of who has it and who has had it are shorter term wins.
 
2020-04-17 6:46:00 AM  

Eightballjacket: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%.


Perhaps 75% or more would continue if you lifted it right now or in a week or two, but middle of July, or September, I think you would see that number drop substantially.  Numbers in Washington state showed how drastic people avoided restaurants in the lead up to the eventual closing.  The governor waiting quite a while after people stopped going out, but this was as this thing was ramping up in the area.

If deaths start dropping to a couple deaths a day in each state, I think there are a lot of people who would hit the town if the orders were lifted.


And that'd last for about two weeks, at which point the death rate would spike right back up from "eh" to "terrifying" and everyone would once again refuse to go outside.
 
2020-04-17 6:46:03 AM  

TheAlgebraist: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless.

The only sense I can see in it is getting everyone exposed a little bit at a time in a way that doesn't overload the hospitals.  I really doubt that that's possible, the only thing less likely to be listened to that "everyone stays home" is "everyone with a last name starting E-Z stays home".  Once they open up a little bit people will flood back out.

I also keep reading that no one has ever successfully made a vaccine for any coronavirus, which is a bit concerning.  Does anyone know if that's because coronaviruses are particularly difficult to make vaccines for, or because no one could have been bothered to get one to completion.


Among other factors, Coronaviruses tend to go after your upper respiratory tract, and it's tough for an the immune system to get at.

For reference: https://mobile.abc.net.au/​news/health/​2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-fra​zer/12146616

/Sorry about the link, on mobile...
 
2020-04-17 6:58:10 AM  

TheAlgebraist: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless.

The only sense I can see in it is getting everyone exposed a little bit at a time in a way that doesn't overload the hospitals.  I really doubt that that's possible, the only thing less likely to be listened to that "everyone stays home" is "everyone with a last name starting E-Z stays home".  Once they open up a little bit people will flood back out.

I also keep reading that no one has ever successfully made a vaccine for any coronavirus, which is a bit concerning.  Does anyone know if that's because coronaviruses are particularly difficult to make vaccines for, or because no one could have been bothered to get one to completion.


For the immune system the lungs are considered part of 'outside' the body, so making a vaccine for coronavirus they say is like making a vaccine for your skin - nearly bloody impossible
 
2020-04-17 7:00:23 AM  

agent00pi: TheAlgebraist: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless.

/Sorry about the link, on mobile...


Not at all, very helpful, much obliged.
 
2020-04-17 7:01:19 AM  
Good.

Not even grumpy cat good.  Just flat out this is a good strategy if it actually goes ahead.  Not least that internally we would actually be able to open back up much sooner than that if we can maintain strong quarantine lines at our borders.

That "girt by sea" bit from our anthem can be sung with some more appreciation.  :-)
 
2020-04-17 7:02:01 AM  
Yeah, but this is in Australian years, which is like two weeks everywhere else.
 
2020-04-17 7:02:34 AM  

Greymalkin: Good.

Not even grumpy cat good.  Just flat out this is a good strategy if it actually goes ahead.  Not least that internally we would actually be able to open back up much sooner than that if we can maintain strong quarantine lines at our borders.

That "girt by sea" bit from our anthem can be sung with some more appreciation.  :-)


I don't know, we were girt by cruise ships for a while there.
 
2020-04-17 7:07:31 AM  
Based on my degree in Antipodean Zoology from the Universite de Farque, I would have assumed there was something on that island that could kill the coronavirus.
 
2020-04-17 7:07:56 AM  
After seeing what this shutdown has done for the environment, I wonder if it would be wise to do it once a year regardless.

Of course, we'd have to have some system in place to safeguard incomes, and also some process by which the "essential" workers could also partake in some capacity.

If it were a planned thing, people could stock up, and sans any medical crisis, the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff while keeping maternity wards and ERs open.

Of course that would require a lot of cooperation across multiple levels of society, government and businesses. In other words, soshulisms.
 
2020-04-17 7:08:42 AM  

TheAlgebraist: agent00pi: TheAlgebraist: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless.

/Sorry about the link, on mobile...

Not at all, very helpful, much obliged.


Got to love the ABC.
 
2020-04-17 7:22:29 AM  
Saying that it "could be" a year is indeed speculating on that, bud.
 
2020-04-17 7:35:30 AM  
For a fun game read the replies and then try and guess who is getting paid a full salary to work from home and who got laid off.

Shutting everything down wasn't a cure it was a way to slow things down enough so the hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. We still don't have a cure and we are never going to get down to zero so at some point we just have to say "fark it" and open back up as best we can.
 
2020-04-17 7:37:41 AM  
I'm torn. On be hand we have flattened the curve, but in the other hand the economy is on a precipice of doom the likes of which none of us have had the displeasure of experiencing.
 
2020-04-17 7:38:19 AM  
Well, I guess being up-side-down all the time is not a cure.
 
2020-04-17 7:38:23 AM  
this will be fine for Australia. the gov'mint and the people are not idiots. meanwhile back in murica Two Scoops is well aware that 70% of the economy depends on the masses buying trinkets and baubles to make the world go round. the sooner the better for The orange One, i'm sure. due to reasons i had to go out last saturday. the amount of people out and about was just like pre-rona. we saw maybe 2 people using masks. Mrs and I were the only people using masks and gloves. the stupid prevails in Ohio.
 
2020-04-17 7:40:45 AM  

pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%. Schools in the UK were only shut down when staffing losses meant nearly a quarter of schools could not legally open due to an inability to provide the minimum ratio of adults to children. The lockdowns mostly made official what the virus had already decided: life cannot continue as normal in a pandemic. People will not willingly die to make their boss a bit richer for one last day.


Let people choose to remain in isolation if they want. But if we don't end the forced shutdown of everything soon, we're going to start to realize that we are causing more deaths that we are preventing. Isolation kills people for a variety of reasons. Suicides and drug ODs are the most obvious, but it even causes a substantial increase in surprising things like hearts disease and stroke, which kill many more people than this virus will. Every time mass groups of people are tested we keep learning that huge swaths of them already have been exposed. Boston last week tested the asymptomatic homeless population and found 36% of them already had COVID-19 antibodies! We are quickly reaching the point where the quarantine is losing its justification.
 
2020-04-17 7:40:57 AM  

dexhal: I'm torn. On be hand we have flattened the curve, but in the other hand the economy is on a precipice of doom the likes of which none of us have had the displeasure of experiencing.


I don't think the economy would have kept running at pre COVID rates once the deaths started, though. People would have stopped going out anyway, and at least this way there's support for most people.

Unless I misread your post, and if so, I apologise.
 
2020-04-17 7:48:22 AM  

Tommy Moo: Every time mass groups of people are tested we keep learning that huge swaths of them already have been exposed. Boston last week tested the asymptomatic homeless population and found 36% of them already had COVID-19 antibodies! We are quickly reaching the point where the quarantine is losing its justification.


Well, we might be. Or we might not be. Without testing we can't know.
 
2020-04-17 7:50:28 AM  

RTOGUY: For a fun game read the replies and then try and guess who is getting paid a full salary to work from home and who got laid off.

Shutting everything down wasn't a cure it was a way to slow things down enough so the hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. We still don't have a cure and we are never going to get down to zero so at some point we just have to say "fark it" and open back up as best we can.


"Not throwing wood on this fire wasn't an attempt to extinguish it, it was a way to slow things down so it didn't set the rest of the house on fire. We still don't have an extinguisher and it's never going to burn out so at some point we just have to say 'fark it' and throw as much fuel on it as we can."
 
2020-04-17 7:59:56 AM  

H31N0US: After seeing what this shutdown has done for the environment, I wonder if it would be wise to do it once a year regardless.

Of course, we'd have to have some system in place to safeguard incomes, and also some process by which the "essential" workers could also partake in some capacity.

If it were a planned thing, people could stock up, and sans any medical crisis, the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff while keeping maternity wards and ERs open.

Of course that would require a lot of cooperation across multiple levels of society, government and businesses. In other words, soshulisms.

the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff


Dental infections = elective
Kidney stones = elective
To name just a couple.

Not to mention that nearly every single mental health service has been cancelled or negatively affected.

There will be a greater than zero number of people who die in agony (dental issues can kill you) and/or choose to take their lives to escape an indefinite period of chronic, severe pain. There will also an increase in suicide and self-harm for people who don't have the capacity to deal with long-term isolation.

Now, a good portion of the population who would be most affected by those things is already marginalized; so maybe it won't be much of a leap to ignore those effects, but it deserves a mention and consideration.
 
2020-04-17 8:05:00 AM  
We're doing pretty well in NZ, all things considered. We're working towards a goal of eliminating the virus. So aside from having a mandatory 14-day quarantine for everyone coming through the border until a vaccine is developed, we should at least get back to something approaching normality (except for a massive recession) sooner than most other countries.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-17 8:12:58 AM  

Eightballjacket: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%.


Perhaps 75% or more would continue if you lifted it right now or in a week or two, but middle of July, or September, I think you would see that number drop substantially.  Numbers in Washington state showed how drastic people avoided restaurants in the lead up to the eventual closing.  The governor waiting quite a while after people stopped going out, but this was as this thing was ramping up in the area.

If deaths start dropping to a couple deaths a day in each state, I think there are a lot of people who would hit the town if the orders were lifted.


He thinks.  This is a game changer right here. This guy thinks.
 
2020-04-17 8:13:41 AM  

agent00pi: TheAlgebraist: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless.

The only sense I can see in it is getting everyone exposed a little bit at a time in a way that doesn't overload the hospitals.  I really doubt that that's possible, the only thing less likely to be listened to that "everyone stays home" is "everyone with a last name starting E-Z stays home".  Once they open up a little bit people will flood back out.

I also keep reading that no one has ever successfully made a vaccine for any coronavirus, which is a bit concerning.  Does anyone know if that's because coronaviruses are particularly difficult to make vaccines for, or because no one could have been bothered to get one to completion.

Among other factors, Coronaviruses tend to go after your upper respiratory tract, and it's tough for an the immune system to get at.

For reference: https://mobile.abc.net.au/n​ews/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vacc​ine-ian-frazer/12146616

/Sorry about the link, on mobile...


That's a good article, too many people believe we'll have a vaccine in 12-18 months as if it's guaranteed. To be fair, some of our "leaders" have given that impression.
 
2020-04-17 8:14:19 AM  
At some point, the number of deaths and substantial injury caused by the quarantine will surpass the number from the virus itself. Hunger, hopelessness, mental health issues, and the host of other problems that isolation brings will take a high toll. However, this will occur in marginalized populations, so it will likely be underreported, if at all.

In the meantime, that $1200 will have come and gone and there's no plan for another. Homelessness and food deprivation will be here before another month is up. For those of you saying that "we should help those who need it", that help needs to be here yesterday. Please let us know what the plan is. NC evictions courts reopen today.
 
2020-04-17 8:20:54 AM  

meerclarschild: H31N0US: After seeing what this shutdown has done for the environment, I wonder if it would be wise to do it once a year regardless.

Of course, we'd have to have some system in place to safeguard incomes, and also some process by which the "essential" workers could also partake in some capacity.

If it were a planned thing, people could stock up, and sans any medical crisis, the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff while keeping maternity wards and ERs open.

Of course that would require a lot of cooperation across multiple levels of society, government and businesses. In other words, soshulisms.

the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff

Dental infections = elective
Kidney stones = elective
To name just a couple.

Not to mention that nearly every single mental health service has been cancelled or negatively affected.

There will be a greater than zero number of people who die in agony (dental issues can kill you) and/or choose to take their lives to escape an indefinite period of chronic, severe pain. There will also an increase in suicide and self-harm for people who don't have the capacity to deal with long-term isolation.

Now, a good portion of the population who would be most affected by those things is already marginalized; so maybe it won't be much of a leap to ignore those effects, but it deserves a mention and consideration.


Dental infections are not considered elective to take care of. Kidney stones and a lot of other things are decided in a case by case basis.
 
2020-04-17 8:21:27 AM  
FTA: "It could be a year, but I'm not speculating about that."

Says man who speculated earlier in the same sentence.
 
2020-04-17 8:24:20 AM  

pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%. Schools in the UK were only shut down when staffing losses meant nearly a quarter of schools could not legally open due to an inability to provide the minimum ratio of adults to children. The lockdowns mostly made official what the virus had already decided: life cannot continue as normal in a pandemic. People will not willingly die to make their boss a bit richer for one last day.

People in areas that have not yet been badly hit often want to see things reopened and want to get back to work. All that would accomplish, though, is bringing the virus to those communities, which in turn will cause the same bottom-up shutdown consumers and workers cause when the virus hits any community.

I don't think a total shutdown is tenable for a year and a half, but there won't be normality for quite a while longer. My hope -- and I think a lot of governments' hopes too -- is that an antibody test / "immunity passport" system will come out soon and reveal that a much higher proportion of the population has had it and recovered with immunity than the official figures show, letting us begin targeted reopening of sectors and workplaces with a view to how prevalent the virus is in that area and how many workers would be able to leave isolation with immunity.

But without something like that, there's just no way of reopening commerce. There's no point saying "look we've got this shopping mall reopened" if absolutely nobody is going to go to it.


Disagree. I have multiple facebook "friends" who are already posting that "the rate is dropping, it's over. Reopen the economy! Everyone already has it". (They are, of course, wrong). A few are small business owners & single moms. The pressure is insane. No income, business probably gone forever, trapped at home with bored kids, hair going back to it's natural color, etc.

My prediction is that if they lift the ban many people like this WILL go out, there will be a second spike, and the ban would need to be put back in place, now with more sick people.

This must be what madness feels like.
 
2020-04-17 8:24:40 AM  

meerclarschild: At some point, the number of deaths and substantial injury caused by the quarantine will surpass the number from the virus itself. Hunger, hopelessness, mental health issues, and the host of other problems that isolation brings will take a high toll. However, this will occur in marginalized populations, so it will likely be underreported, if at all.

In the meantime, that $1200 will have come and gone and there's no plan for another. Homelessness and food deprivation will be here before another month is up. For those of you saying that "we should help those who need it", that help needs to be here yesterday. Please let us know what the plan is. NC evictions courts reopen today.


The courts closed order was extended.

https://indyweek.com/news/northcaroli​n​a/north-carolina-court-dates-june/
 
2020-04-17 8:27:14 AM  
There are probably some things that shouldn't return to normal until next year. Parades for example. And restoring normal operations should be a phased process, not everything opening all at once.

But keeping everything shut down for six months or a year? Hell no. Unacceptable. (And no, not because "the economy.")
 
2020-04-17 8:31:59 AM  

sinko swimo: this will be fine for Australia. the gov'mint and the people are not idiots. meanwhile back in murica Two Scoops is well aware that 70% of the economy depends on the masses buying trinkets and baubles to make the world go round. the sooner the better for The orange One, i'm sure. due to reasons i had to go out last saturday. the amount of people out and about was just like pre-rona. we saw maybe 2 people using masks. Mrs and I were the only people using masks and gloves. the stupid prevails in Ohio.


Everywhere. And when that money hit Wednesday traffic was insane in the GNO area. People were everywhere. Anything that was open was packed. When orders are lifted people will immediately flock everywhere.
 
2020-04-17 8:36:05 AM  
I'm pretty sure restaurants, theaters and other social gathering places are screwed. I can't wait to see Dune, but I'm not going to risk my only surviving grandparent over it. I think a lot of people will spend the next year only going out if they absolutely must. It won't be everyone, but it will be enough to reshape the economy.

/my lawn has never looked better
 
2020-04-17 8:42:10 AM  

pkjun: RTOGUY: For a fun game read the replies and then try and guess who is getting paid a full salary to work from home and who got laid off.

Shutting everything down wasn't a cure it was a way to slow things down enough so the hospitals didn't get overwhelmed. We still don't have a cure and we are never going to get down to zero so at some point we just have to say "fark it" and open back up as best we can.

"Not throwing wood on this fire wasn't an attempt to extinguish it, it was a way to slow things down so it didn't set the rest of the house on fire. We still don't have an extinguisher and it's never going to burn out so at some point we just have to say 'fark it' and throw as much fuel on it as we can."


Depends on the kind of fire though doesn't it? If you want to put out a campfire you can stop adding fuel and wait it out. If you are trying to put out a raging house fire and all you have is a garden hose at some point you have to admit the house is lost and watch it burn. This disease is worldwide so just asking people to stay inside is pretty much just a garden hose type of solution.
 
2020-04-17 8:44:26 AM  
We currently have a two week vacation planned to Australia, staring June 21.  I'm thinking maybe that's not happening.   So bummed.
 
2020-04-17 8:45:38 AM  

meerclarschild: At some point, the number of deaths and substantial injury caused by the quarantine will surpass the number from the virus itself. Hunger, hopelessness, mental health issues, and the host of other problems that isolation brings will take a high toll. However, this will occur in marginalized populations, so it will likely be underreported, if at all.

In the meantime, that $1200 will have come and gone and there's no plan for another. Homelessness and food deprivation will be here before another month is up. For those of you saying that "we should help those who need it", that help needs to be here yesterday. Please let us know what the plan is. NC evictions courts reopen today.


The mental health issues will occur in pretty much everyone.  I'm able to work from home and have a stable income and I'm still bored out of my skull.  At some point (sooner than later), people will say F it and leave.  What are they going to do? Throw them in jail?  Yeah that would be helpful.
 
2020-04-17 8:51:39 AM  

colon_canoe: sinko swimo: this will be fine for Australia. the gov'mint and the people are not idiots. meanwhile back in murica Two Scoops is well aware that 70% of the economy depends on the masses buying trinkets and baubles to make the world go round. the sooner the better for The orange One, i'm sure. due to reasons i had to go out last saturday. the amount of people out and about was just like pre-rona. we saw maybe 2 people using masks. Mrs and I were the only people using masks and gloves. the stupid prevails in Ohio.

Everywhere. And when that money hit Wednesday traffic was insane in the GNO area. People were everywhere. Anything that was open was packed. When orders are lifted people will immediately flock everywhere.


That's exactly what I'm expecting to happen when things open.  People will immediately throw huge parties with lots of people, pack Walmart to buy useless garbage, and lick shopping carts for the lulz, and it'll be back to the way it is now.  Also, people will be flocking to nursing homes (which seem to consistently get outbreaks) to visit their loved ones they haven't seen in months. I have no plans to stop social distancing and/or isolating until there is a vaccine available, or this is well and truly dead.

/then again I'm a hermit so its not exactly a stretch
 
2020-04-17 8:53:39 AM  

lindalouwho: meerclarschild: H31N0US: After seeing what this shutdown has done for the environment, I wonder if it would be wise to do it once a year regardless.

Of course, we'd have to have some system in place to safeguard incomes, and also some process by which the "essential" workers could also partake in some capacity.

If it were a planned thing, people could stock up, and sans any medical crisis, the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff while keeping maternity wards and ERs open.

Of course that would require a lot of cooperation across multiple levels of society, government and businesses. In other words, soshulisms.

the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff

Dental infections = elective
Kidney stones = elective
To name just a couple.

Not to mention that nearly every single mental health service has been cancelled or negatively affected.

There will be a greater than zero number of people who die in agony (dental issues can kill you) and/or choose to take their lives to escape an indefinite period of chronic, severe pain. There will also an increase in suicide and self-harm for people who don't have the capacity to deal with long-term isolation.

Now, a good portion of the population who would be most affected by those things is already marginalized; so maybe it won't be much of a leap to ignore those effects, but it deserves a mention and consideration.

Dental infections are not considered elective to take care of. Kidney stones and a lot of other things are decided in a case by case basis.


Dental infections may have been a bad example because they do seem to become more elective to treat the poorer you are.
 
2020-04-17 8:55:12 AM  

pkjun: Eightballjacket: pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%.


Perhaps 75% or more would continue if you lifted it right now or in a week or two, but middle of July, or September, I think you would see that number drop substantially.  Numbers in Washington state showed how drastic people avoided restaurants in the lead up to the eventual closing.  The governor waiting quite a while after people stopped going out, but this was as this thing was ramping up in the area.

If deaths start dropping to a couple deaths a day in each state, I think there are a lot of people who would hit the town if the orders were lifted.

And that'd last for about two weeks, at which point the death rate would spike right back up from "eh" to "terrifying" and everyone would once again refuse to go outside.


The good thing about where the US and Canada are in this situation is that we can see how other countries are going to be effected as they open up, because other countries are already opening and more will open before we do.  In fact, some have never even shut down their bars (Sweden) .
 
2020-04-17 8:56:55 AM  

pkjun: Until there's a vaccine, "reopening the economy" is going to be pointless. People mostly still aren't going to be shopping or going to restaurants or going on vacation; polls in the US and in the UK both show that > 75% of people would continue to isolate even if the orders were listed, and even before the lockdowns were instituted restaurant bookings and retail sales were down 50 to 75%. Schools in the UK were only shut down when staffing losses meant nearly a quarter of schools could not legally open due to an inability to provide the minimum ratio of adults to children. The lockdowns mostly made official what the virus had already decided: life cannot continue as normal in a pandemic. People will not willingly die to make their boss a bit richer for one last day.

People in areas that have not yet been badly hit often want to see things reopened and want to get back to work. All that would accomplish, though, is bringing the virus to those communities, which in turn will cause the same bottom-up shutdown consumers and workers cause when the virus hits any community.

I don't think a total shutdown is tenable for a year and a half, but there won't be normality for quite a while longer. My hope -- and I think a lot of governments' hopes too -- is that an antibody test / "immunity passport" system will come out soon and reveal that a much higher proportion of the population has had it and recovered with immunity than the official figures show, letting us begin targeted reopening of sectors and workplaces with a view to how prevalent the virus is in that area and how many workers would be able to leave isolation with immunity.

But without something like that, there's just no way of reopening commerce. There's no point saying "look we've got this shopping mall reopened" if absolutely nobody is going to go to it.


I agree exactly. My thoughts have been, we started with only a few infected in this country and that led to thousands dead, we can't really get back to normal without some sort vaccine. That does not mean we have to be in full lockdown mode, but it does mean we can't start having large gatherings like sporting events and marathons, etc.

In addition, we haven't COMPLETELY shut down either, maybe we would be better off to start looking at additional workarounds for certain sectors rather than having folks hold out hope for some magical sudden return to normalcy.
 
2020-04-17 8:59:38 AM  

lindalouwho: meerclarschild: At some point, the number of deaths and substantial injury caused by the quarantine will surpass the number from the virus itself. Hunger, hopelessness, mental health issues, and the host of other problems that isolation brings will take a high toll. However, this will occur in marginalized populations, so it will likely be underreported, if at all.

In the meantime, that $1200 will have come and gone and there's no plan for another. Homelessness and food deprivation will be here before another month is up. For those of you saying that "we should help those who need it", that help needs to be here yesterday. Please let us know what the plan is. NC evictions courts reopen today.

The courts closed order was extended.

https://indyweek.com/news/northcarolin​a/north-carolina-court-dates-june/


I hope you are right, but that linked article actually says that evictions are not addressed by the overall closure memo. It's hinted that they may fall under the cases that can be filed by phone.
 
2020-04-17 9:01:02 AM  
Considering people under 45 have very little to worry about with this virus and the statistics show that there is no correlation between gov't ordered shut downs and how the virus performs, nothing but a bunch of ninnies in this thread.

If you removed restrictions, yeah some industries would still suffer because people are smart, but many would be fine.

Yeah more people would be sick, but most of them would be fine and not need a hospital. Considering most hospitals out of NYC are practically empty, we have the capacity anyway.
 
2020-04-17 9:08:10 AM  

sinko swimo: this will be fine for Australia. the gov'mint and the people are not idiots. meanwhile back in murica Two Scoops is well aware that 70% of the economy depends on the masses buying trinkets and baubles to make the world go round. the sooner the better for The orange One, i'm sure. due to reasons i had to go out last saturday. the amount of people out and about was just like pre-rona. we saw maybe 2 people using masks. Mrs and I were the only people using masks and gloves. the stupid prevails in Ohio.


I have good news for you.  Each Governor is in charge of lifting the restrictions, not Trump.  And if you are in Ohio, you and your fellow citizens must have done something correct, your numbers are tiny compared to where I am in Michigan.  A bunch of farkers assured me that Ohio would be as bad or worse than Michigan a couple weeks ago, but yet again, they have been proven incorrect.
 
2020-04-17 9:13:28 AM  

meerclarschild: lindalouwho: meerclarschild: H31N0US: After seeing what this shutdown has done for the environment, I wonder if it would be wise to do it once a year regardless.

Of course, we'd have to have some system in place to safeguard incomes, and also some process by which the "essential" workers could also partake in some capacity.

If it were a planned thing, people could stock up, and sans any medical crisis, the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff while keeping maternity wards and ERs open.

Of course that would require a lot of cooperation across multiple levels of society, government and businesses. In other words, soshulisms.

the hospitals could just cancel elective stuff

Dental infections = elective
Kidney stones = elective
To name just a couple.

Not to mention that nearly every single mental health service has been cancelled or negatively affected.

There will be a greater than zero number of people who die in agony (dental issues can kill you) and/or choose to take their lives to escape an indefinite period of chronic, severe pain. There will also an increase in suicide and self-harm for people who don't have the capacity to deal with long-term isolation.

Now, a good portion of the population who would be most affected by those things is already marginalized; so maybe it won't be much of a leap to ignore those effects, but it deserves a mention and consideration.

Dental infections are not considered elective to take care of. Kidney stones and a lot of other things are decided in a case by case basis.

Dental infections may have been a bad example because they do seem to become more elective to treat the poorer you are.


Yikes. Dental infections wreak havoc on the body if not attended to. Nobody wants sepsis, I know that first-hand. For me it wasn't dental related, post colectomy.

https://happytoothnc.com/abscessed-to​o​th-can-damage-health/
 
Displayed 50 of 68 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter




In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.