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(Yahoo)   US Navy evacuates over 80% of USS Theodore Roosevelt crew as nearly 600 carrier sailors test positive for coronavirus. I guess Capt. Crozier may have been right after all   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, United States Navy, new way, Theodore Roosevelt, Royal Navy, new world, U.S. Navy photo, USS Theodore Roosevelt sailor, Navy Secretary Thomas Modly  
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2164 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 13 Apr 2020 at 3:29 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-04-12 10:06:02 PM  
Oh, well, I'm sure Trump will apologize for how his administration handled this.
 
2020-04-12 10:39:36 PM  
Being fired by Trump for speaking out generally always means you've told the truth
 
2020-04-13 1:06:31 AM  
Yeah but he made Trump look bad which automagically means he deserved it.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-13 2:14:35 AM  
Trump: Promote thst man!

CNO: Sir, you fired him.

Trump: So? Make him a general tomorrow!

CNO: Uh well...sir, we don't have generals in the Navy. We have admirals.

Trump: No, that sounds gay. Make him a general.

CNO: ...of the Navy?

Trump: Right. Fancy uniform, make it gold all over.

CNO: .....

Trump: Why are you drinking in the War Room?
 
2020-04-13 3:33:56 AM  
I, for one, am shocked that a highly decorated military officer's call that became a political football turned out to be entirely correct. I certainly hope they fire his Commander in Chief
 
2020-04-13 3:36:31 AM  
It's not about whether you're right or wrong, it's that you made Donnie look bad before he had a chance to lie his way into looking good.
 
2020-04-13 3:38:13 AM  
media1.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2020-04-13 3:42:30 AM  
First it'll be the Navy, then the village people
 
2020-04-13 3:43:39 AM  
So, what are the actual regs for responding to a virulent and dangerous infection breaking out aboard ship? Are there any? Its not like sickness burning through a ship like wildfire is a new thing. Maybe they could have turned to the regs for biological warfare defense for a plan of action?

I suspect that on board quarantine is basically impossible aboard because of the no symptoms, yet already contagious stage and the environment of a ship with shared air, tight quarters, and touching surfaces for balance as you move around. It is likely that the best course of action was to return to the nearest base and then carry out quarantine on the entire crew while the ship is sterilized by personnel wearing NBC gear.

The ship loses a month of operation on station due to travel time and the quarantine, but when it goes out it should be free of the contagion and would remain so if shore leave was cancelled for the duration of the pandemic, assuming that replacement personnel were also place in quarantine before boarding.
 
2020-04-13 3:46:44 AM  
Diamond Princess:

Fark user imageView Full Size


Not the best berth in the boat, but hey, you get what you pay for.

i.ytimg.comView Full Size


Corner of a Nimitz-class squid habitat. There is probably 4-6 more just like that in that section.

Community transmission is going to be high, especially if it can spread by farts.
 
2020-04-13 3:53:16 AM  
Watched the Billy Mitchell movie earlier today (Amazon Prime). Reminds me very much like this situation. Fire the guy who makes a stand for a higher purpose.

This whole thing farking sucks. Now, just curious, is the entire military on lockdown now? It would be the sensible thing. Leaves canceled? Change of orders postponed, etc?
 
2020-04-13 3:57:23 AM  

ImpendingCynic: It's not about whether you're right or wrong, it's that you made Donnie look bad before he had a chance to lie his way into looking good.


Yup.  Moldy has been thrown under the bus...  and the only way it will go away is if that bus drives back and forth over him until there is nothing identifiable.

Acting SecNav is in the same boat.

The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.
 
2020-04-13 4:04:37 AM  

GrogSmash: ImpendingCynic: It's not about whether you're right or wrong, it's that you made Donnie look bad before he had a chance to lie his way into looking good.

Yup.  Moldy has been thrown under the bus...  and the only way it will go away is if that bus drives back and forth over him until there is nothing identifiable.

Acting SecNav is in the same boat.

The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.


Although, acting SecNav is actually in a worse boat.

He followed orders to fire Moldy.  And discredit him.  And when that blew up, well, suddenly he is holding the giant turd, not Trump.
 
2020-04-13 4:20:13 AM  

wejash: Trump: Promote thst man!

CNO: Sir, you fired him.

Trump: So? Make him a general tomorrow!

CNO: Uh well...sir, we don't have generals in the Navy. We have admirals.

Trump: No, that sounds gay. Make him a general.

CNO: ...of the Navy?

Trump: Right. Fancy uniform, make it gold all over.

CNO: .....

Trump: Why are you drinking in the War Room?


You have no idea how much I hate that that conversation is entirely plausible.
 
2020-04-13 4:22:26 AM  

GrogSmash: The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.


Or, in reality land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships. That's never acceptable.
 
2020-04-13 4:25:06 AM  

Eravior: wejash: Trump: Promote thst man!

CNO: Sir, you fired him.

Trump: So? Make him a general tomorrow!

CNO: Uh well...sir, we don't have generals in the Navy. We have admirals.

Trump: No, that sounds gay. Make him a general.

CNO: ...of the Navy?

Trump: Right. Fancy uniform, make it gold all over.

CNO: .....

Trump: Why are you drinking in the War Room?

You have no idea how much I hate that that conversation is entirely plausible.


that's the thing with Trump: you can make up some random fact about him and it's likely going to be true.

I still wish the Gorilla Channel was a real thing.
 
2020-04-13 4:27:33 AM  
Modly then took a jet to fly to Guam to address the ship's crew - a trip that reportedly cost over $243,000. Using the ship's announcement system, Modly defended his decision to fire Crozier in a 15-minute profanity-laced speech .

"That's your duty. Not to complain. Everyone's scared about this thing," Modly said in the call. "But I'll tell you something, if this ship was in combat and there were hypersonic missiles coming at it, you'd be pretty f---ing scared too. But you do your jobs. And that's what I expect you to do."
 
2020-04-13 4:27:56 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-13 4:35:00 AM  
So, a $9bn nuclear-powered carrier is being guarded by a skeleton crew in Guam?
Sounds like the beginning of a Bond movie.
 
2020-04-13 4:42:44 AM  

Shaggy_C: GrogSmash: The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.

Or, in reality land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships. That's never acceptable.


"My crew is dying.  Please help."

Ignored going through the chain of command.  So WTF is a real commander of men supposed to do?  Shrug?  Wave his hands, saying "Whelp, not my problem anymore!"...  Or farking do something about it.

One disabled carrier does not cripple the entire fleet.  Worst case scenario, it could be fully manned by clean personel within two weeks.  Sure, it disrupts smooth flow, but it is doable.

You do NOT throw a man who, in non wartime, cries for help for the men under his command.  Sure, if this was the middle of WWII, yes, you could make that arguement.

But that farking ship was sitting basically in port.
 
2020-04-13 4:45:41 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-13 4:47:05 AM  
That's a large ejection of seamen
 
2020-04-13 4:47:39 AM  

GrogSmash: Moldy


Might want to try that again.
 
2020-04-13 4:48:13 AM  
Shaggy_C: Or, in "reality" land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships.

You wanted those sailors to die.
 
2020-04-13 4:48:43 AM  

2wolves: GrogSmash: Moldy

Might want to try that again.


Might have the names switched... drinking for 6 hours....
 
2020-04-13 4:50:06 AM  
god, what is wrong with some people :(
 
2020-04-13 4:50:27 AM  

thepeterd: [Fark user image 346x311]


How is Putin doing these days?

Last week there were news videos of him shaking hands and spending a lot of time close to an infected scientist.

I haven't seen him on TV since.
 
2020-04-13 4:51:21 AM  

GrogSmash: 2wolves: GrogSmash: Moldy

Might want to try that again.

Might have the names switched... drinking for 6 hours....


Yup, names switched, my bad!

Argument stands.
 
2020-04-13 5:07:35 AM  

lurkey: So, a $9bn nuclear-powered carrier is being guarded by a skeleton crew in Guam?
Sounds like the beginning of a Bond movie.


More like Under Seige
 
2020-04-13 5:12:03 AM  

Shaggy_C: GrogSmash: The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.

Or, in reality land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships. That's never acceptable.


And if you have ever lead men, men who trusted you with their lives...

What am I saying.  You would be a causality of an ambush.  Men (and woman) serve with their hearts, knowing it is for the greater good...  and trusting their commanders will use them wisely, and not not recklessly kill them.

A commander who deregards the welfare of his men, does not have a command for long.
 
2020-04-13 5:17:24 AM  

Kittypie070: Shaggy_C: Or, in "reality" land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships.

You wanted those sailors to die.


/facepalm

double down and run further the other direction when faced with a reasonable counter argument?  You are a prime example of what's wrong with this country right now.
 
2020-04-13 5:23:31 AM  

bigdanc: Kittypie070: Shaggy_C: Or, in "reality" land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships.

You wanted those sailors to die.

/facepalm

double down and run further the other direction when faced with a reasonable counter argument?  You are a prime example of what's wrong with this country right now.


One disabled carrier does not cripple the fleet.

The morale issue of letting 5000 navy personel catch the plague, while command does nothing ... DOES cripple the fleet.
 
2020-04-13 5:25:22 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-04-13 5:34:56 AM  
Apollo 13:

Something blew up on the Odyssey and now the astronauts are in danger. All they have is Aquarius for a tiny little lifeboat.

It's a crapshoot, whether they live or die.

If you and your guys figure out how to help them, they might make it back to Earth safely.

bigdanc

You're the Flight Director. What do you do?
 
2020-04-13 5:35:46 AM  

70Ford: Modly then took a jet to fly to Guam to address the ship's crew - a trip that reportedly cost over $243,000. Using the ship's announcement system, Modly defended his decision to fire Crozier in a 15-minute profanity-laced speech .

"That's your duty. Not to complain. Everyone's scared about this thing," Modly said in the call. "But I'll tell you something, if this ship was in combat and there were hypersonic missiles coming at it, you'd be pretty f---ing scared too. But you do your jobs. And that's what I expect you to do."


I'm just wondering why it cost so much to fly him out there. Including the cost of his aids or whoever had to go with h maybe?
 
2020-04-13 5:42:35 AM  
If I'm the captain or the flight director, how does trying to save my crew's lives make ME an "example of what's wrong with the country"??
 
2020-04-13 5:50:31 AM  

Kittypie070: If I'm the captain or the flight director, how does trying to save my crew's lives make ME an "example of what's wrong with the country"??


Depends who is on top, and who gets embarassed.

The commander of the ship, who was likely to be an admiral in under five years, destroyed his career to protect his crew.  That is a leader.

The current US administration cannot abide anyone going against the story told by the President, that everything is fine.

Once upon a time the desk said "The buck stops here".  Now it says "I take NO responsibility".
 
2020-04-13 5:59:05 AM  

mrparks: Diamond Princess:

[Fark user image image 425x319]

Not the best berth in the boat, but hey, you get what you pay for.

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Corner of a Nimitz-class squid habitat. There is probably 4-6 more just like that in that section.

Community transmission is going to be high, especially if it can spread by farts.


That looks like Cheifs' berthing. One of the relatively "roomy" areas to live. Most folks on those tubs sleep in rows of six packs, like this.

listverse-wpengine.netdna-ssl.comView Full Size
 
2020-04-13 6:00:24 AM  

Jerkstorebestseller: mrparks: Diamond Princess:

[Fark user image image 425x319]

Not the best berth in the boat, but hey, you get what you pay for.

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Corner of a Nimitz-class squid habitat. There is probably 4-6 more just like that in that section.

Community transmission is going to be high, especially if it can spread by farts.

That looks like Cheifs' berthing. One of the relatively "roomy" areas to live. Most folks on those tubs sleep in rows of six packs, like this.

[listverse-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com image 632x429]


*Chiefs
Preview is my friend
 
2020-04-13 6:01:54 AM  
I'm just wondering why it cost so much to fly him out there. Including the cost of his aids or whoever had to go with h maybe?

The $243,000 was the cost of running the aircraft that took him out there and back. That's not any other costs of the trip - like if they stayed in a hotel while in Guam, security, etc. Which is why I think it's often stated as "over $243,000" because there had to be more than just the aircraft.
 
2020-04-13 6:02:08 AM  

Shaggy_C: GrogSmash: The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.

Or, in reality land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships. That's never acceptable.


Didn't follow the story I see.   That's not what my non-Trump fellating Navy friends tell me.
 
2020-04-13 6:08:04 AM  
Right or wrong didn't seem to be SECNAV's concern.
 
2020-04-13 6:08:51 AM  

bigdanc: Kittypie070: Shaggy_C: Or, in "reality" land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships.

You wanted those sailors to die.

/facepalm

double down and run further the other direction when faced with a reasonable counter argument?  You are a prime example of what's wrong with this country right now.


It's not a reasonable counter argument, since Crozier didn't go to the press.  Blame the leaker, who was higher up in the chain of command.
 
2020-04-13 6:13:05 AM  

studebaker hoch: thepeterd: [Fark user image 346x311]

How is Putin doing these days?

Last week there were news videos of him shaking hands and spending a lot of time close to an infected scientist.

I haven't seen him on TV since.


Weren't there official pics of him visiting a COVID-19 hospital ward wearing a full hazmat suit? I thought that was some point after the infamous handshake, but I could be mistaken.
 
2020-04-13 6:13:53 AM  

Kittypie070: Apollo 13:

Something blew up on the Odyssey and now the astronauts are in danger. All they have is Aquarius for a tiny little lifeboat.

It's a crapshoot, whether they live or die.

If you and your guys figure out how to help them, they might make it back to Earth safely.

bigdanc

You're the Flight Director. What do you do?


Well, if I'm Trump, I fire the acting head of NASA, since my hand-picked toadie just made me look bad.  Then I blame Obama.  Then, if the anonymous engineers still working there fix it, I take full credit.

And then an army of trolls and morons try to validate my decisions online.
 
2020-04-13 6:18:40 AM  

PunGent: bigdanc: Kittypie070: Shaggy_C: Or, in "reality" land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships.

You wanted those sailors to die.

/facepalm

double down and run further the other direction when faced with a reasonable counter argument?  You are a prime example of what's wrong with this country right now.

It's not a reasonable counter argument, since Crozier didn't go to the press.  Blame the leaker, who was higher up in the chain of command.


You're point is valid but the leaker could have been in his command or in as other command not in his chain of command.
 
2020-04-13 6:19:54 AM  

Jerkstorebestseller: mrparks: Diamond Princess:

[Fark user image image 425x319]

Not the best berth in the boat, but hey, you get what you pay for.

[i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Corner of a Nimitz-class squid habitat. There is probably 4-6 more just like that in that section.

Community transmission is going to be high, especially if it can spread by farts.

That looks like Cheifs' berthing. One of the relatively "roomy" areas to live. Most folks on those tubs sleep in rows of six packs, like this.

[listverse-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com image 632x429]


Pretty sweet lockers, though, assuming you get a whole one to yourself.
 
2020-04-13 6:21:29 AM  

sdd2000: [Fark user image 850x850]


Neck vulva.
 
2020-04-13 6:28:07 AM  

gozar_the_destroyer: So, what are the actual regs for responding to a virulent and dangerous infection breaking out aboard ship? Are there any? Its not like sickness burning through a ship like wildfire is a new thing. Maybe they could have turned to the regs for biological warfare defense for a plan of action?

I suspect that on board quarantine is basically impossible aboard because of the no symptoms, yet already contagious stage and the environment of a ship with shared air, tight quarters, and touching surfaces for balance as you move around. It is likely that the best course of action was to return to the nearest base and then carry out quarantine on the entire crew while the ship is sterilized by personnel wearing NBC gear.

The ship loses a month of operation on station due to travel time and the quarantine, but when it goes out it should be free of the contagion and would remain so if shore leave was cancelled for the duration of the pandemic, assuming that replacement personnel were also place in quarantine before boarding.


I think it would realistically be impossible to contain it, on board, or with a real-world month-long shore-based quarantine.

The two week quarantines of cruise ship passengers at military bases so far sounded like disasters, with probably more people infected upon release than when they entered. It's impossible to give exact numbers, since test results are negative for early stages of infection, and by the time Golden Princess passengers were quarantined, most of the passengers refused testing to avoid further detention. But quarantines on military bases, overseen by the CDC and other experts, sound like they just didn't work. It would be different if you had facilities designed for isolation, like in hospital ICUs, with careful air pressure management, filtration, sterilization, and if you kept anyone from entering or exiting people's rooms, but the base housing sounds like it had similar drawbacks as the cruise ships had, with an enormous number of low probability risks for infection, which worked out to a near certainty for failure.

Looking at how sailors from the Roosevelt are isolating in Guam, they didn't have enough room on base for many of them, and the navy has taken over several civilian hotels.

It seems relatively easy to keep a big, relatively self-sufficient ship safe in the first place; nobody comes aboard, load containers of supplies at docks and stay away from them for a few days. Unfortunately the top officer in the Pacific ordered the ship ashore on March 5, and sailors were given shore leave for 4 days of partying at hotels in Vietnam. That was a couple days before the WHO officially declared the virus a global pandemic, but well after sensible people knew it was spreading worldwide, and were stockpiling supplies and isolating if they were able to.
 
2020-04-13 6:36:24 AM  

Shaggy_C: GrogSmash: The man had to violate Chain of Command to get tranction, and make sure it was sent to where it would get leaked.  It makes him a leader, in a buracracy, which is something that cannot be tolerated.

Or, in reality land, he gave America's enemies intel about the beleaguered status of one of our ships. That's never acceptable.


And you know what? That would have been a really easy thing to say in that memo. Don't make public statements that reveal exploitable information about your unit.

It didn't say anything like that. It said don't make public statements that surprise the President or contradict his political messaging on the pandemic.

It would have been easy to say when he was fired, or when they were challenged on firing him. But it's not what they said.

It would have been easy to say in that address to the crew. But it's not what was said.

They could even have tried to backpedal to that position at some point. SecNav's resignation was a GREAT time to try. But they didn't.
 
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