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(NPR)   Three of the United States' aircraft carriers now have crew members infected with COVID-19, which means that if you add up all the other nations' currently active aircraft carriers, we're outnumbered 11 to 9. They're gonna invade us, aren't they?   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Scary, United States Navy, United States Department of Defense, Aircraft carrier, Theodore Roosevelt, aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt, good idea, Gen. John Hyten, Nimitz class aircraft carrier  
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1159 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 10 Apr 2020 at 2:00 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-04-10 1:25:52 PM  
I played Fortress America once. Put me in charge. I can handle this.
 
2020-04-10 1:30:11 PM  
At this point, that might be preferable, depending on who "they" are.  Norway?  Yes, please.  China?  Not so much.
 
2020-04-10 1:39:46 PM  
Just make sure that our remaining carriers are each outfitted with a contingent of F-35s. Those will even the odds. And hopefully this illustrates for all those pacifists out there the importance of maintaining overwhelming naval superiority. I think what we need to see is a significant portion of the $2 trillion COVID-19 bailout being redirected toward emergency carrier construction. It's sad that we have to do it, but by cutting the $250 billion of the COVID-19 bailout that's going to takers instead of job creators and redirecting that toward an emergency Carrier Construction Project, we could look at adding as many as 15 or 16 new carriers (assuming a bulk rate at around $15 billion each), more than doubling our current fleet size. That should help close this alarming readiness gap.
 
2020-04-10 2:03:39 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: At this point, that might be preferable, depending on who "they" are.  Norway?  Yes, please.  China?  Not so much.


They'll heal us to death with a strong social safety net!
 
2020-04-10 2:03:51 PM  
what this "handling" of the virus in the US shows our enemies is that a bio-weapon will destroy us because we dont give a shyte about our people or fellow citizens. And since we put $$ over the health of our citizens we are uniquely unequipped to handle such an attack
 
2020-04-10 2:05:27 PM  
Why would they invade the worlds biggest leper colony?

/another prediction from  V for Vendetta that seems to be coming true.
//he serve in Syria, before AND after
 
2020-04-10 2:05:47 PM  
Our carries are usually way "over there" and not near enough to here to help much if we're invaded. And just like pandemic planning, we seem to be laying off experienced warfighters now.
 
2020-04-10 2:09:20 PM  
The sailors on that coal burning Russian aircraft carrier are gonna die from black lung , so we got that going for us . And the Chinese carriers are made from Chinese parts so that's a win .
 
2020-04-10 2:09:39 PM  
look around and tell me healthcare isn't a national security / national defense issue

we are living a perfect example of why nationalized healthcare is not only needed but should be part of our defense strategy
 
2020-04-10 2:10:20 PM  

edmo: Our carries are usually way "over there" and not near enough to here to help much if we're invaded. And just like pandemic planning, we seem to be laying off experienced warfighters now.


The reason we're not being invaded is BECAUSE our carriers are usually way "over there".  The world is a much more peaceful place because the US Navy controls the seas.  If that goes away because we can no longer maintain a blue water navy, no one's going to have a fun time of it.
 
2020-04-10 2:11:26 PM  
Thanks, Subby. We really needed for the IQ 80 military gearheads to get their chains yanked today.
 
2020-04-10 2:12:11 PM  

kindms: look around and tell me healthcare isn't a national security / national defense issue

we are living a perfect example of why nationalized healthcare is not only needed but should be part of our defense strategy


The military has "nationalized" healthcare.  Not sure it's helping any.
 
2020-04-10 2:12:30 PM  
One of our carriers with the accompanying picket ships could take all those other boats at the same time.
 
2020-04-10 2:14:07 PM  
People are saying this is fake news. Hillary Clinton sold all of our aircraft carriers to the Russians years ago. Nobody knew that.
 
2020-04-10 2:15:39 PM  
Pretty sure our sailors will Fight, even after being diagnosed with the 19.  We're fine
 
2020-04-10 2:17:51 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: kindms: look around and tell me healthcare isn't a national security / national defense issue

we are living a perfect example of why nationalized healthcare is not only needed but should be part of our defense strategy

The military has "nationalized" healthcare.  Not sure it's helping any.


doesnt do much good when the entire civilian support mechanism is sick and dying and you cant feed healthy soldiers in to the meatgrinder
 
2020-04-10 2:18:55 PM  

Mouser: edmo: Our carries are usually way "over there" and not near enough to here to help much if we're invaded. And just like pandemic planning, we seem to be laying off experienced warfighters now.

The reason we're not being invaded is BECAUSE our carriers are usually way "over there".  The world is a much more peaceful place because the US Navy controls the seas.  If that goes away because we can no longer maintain a blue water navy, no one's going to have a fun time of it.


I'm not asserting an opinion, since I'm wildly unqualified (on this.  and in general too, but also on this) - is that based on the assumption that there will be rampant piracy?  Or nations acting and calling it piracy?

Or the Kraken?

/last one was a joke, but I mean the question seriously
 
2020-04-10 2:19:19 PM  
We must not allow a carrier gap!
 
2020-04-10 2:24:01 PM  
Guess Capt. Crozier's concerns weren't misplaced, were they?
 
2020-04-10 2:27:36 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Just make sure that our remaining carriers are each outfitted with a contingent of F-35s. Those will even the odds. And hopefully this illustrates for all those pacifists out there the importance of maintaining overwhelming naval superiority. I think what we need to see is a significant portion of the $2 trillion COVID-19 bailout being redirected toward emergency carrier construction. It's sad that we have to do it, but by cutting the $250 billion of the COVID-19 bailout that's going to takers instead of job creators and redirecting that toward an emergency Carrier Construction Project, we could look at adding as many as 15 or 16 new carriers (assuming a bulk rate at around $15 billion each), more than doubling our current fleet size. That should help close this alarming readiness gap.


Well, ok then......
Suzy in the back, what's your answer?
 
2020-04-10 2:29:11 PM  

zpaul: Pretty sure our sailors will Fight, even after being diagnosed with the 19.  We're fine


Why do random words Require a capital?
 
2020-04-10 2:31:13 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Benevolent Misanthrope: At this point, that might be preferable, depending on who "they" are.  Norway?  Yes, please.  China?  Not so much.

They'll heal us to death with a strong social safety net!


I'd gladly take the Norwegian model, including the high taxes, if it meant everyone had some form of security.  Seriously.
 
2020-04-10 2:31:57 PM  

ZAZ: I played Fortress America once. Put me in charge. I can handle this.


Did you win?

Strike that.  Doesn't matter.

You're still like, twelve up on any Trump guy.
 
2020-04-10 2:34:31 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Just make sure that our remaining carriers are each outfitted with a contingent of F-35s. Those will even the odds. And hopefully this illustrates for all those pacifists out there the importance of maintaining overwhelming naval superiority. I think what we need to see is a significant portion of the $2 trillion COVID-19 bailout being redirected toward emergency carrier construction. It's sad that we have to do it, but by cutting the $250 billion of the COVID-19 bailout that's going to takers instead of job creators and redirecting that toward an emergency Carrier Construction Project, we could look at adding as many as 15 or 16 new carriers (assuming a bulk rate at around $15 billion each), more than doubling our current fleet size. That should help close this alarming readiness gap.


This post has been stolen and is now being formulated into a policy position by The Heritage Foundation.
 
2020-04-10 2:35:12 PM  
Great, now where can I find pleasure, search the world for treasure, learn science technology?
 
2020-04-10 2:35:36 PM  
Well that's what happens when you have someone "acting" as Secretary of the Navy.
 
2020-04-10 2:35:55 PM  

Jster422: Mouser: edmo: Our carries are usually way "over there" and not near enough to here to help much if we're invaded. And just like pandemic planning, we seem to be laying off experienced warfighters now.

The reason we're not being invaded is BECAUSE our carriers are usually way "over there".  The world is a much more peaceful place because the US Navy controls the seas.  If that goes away because we can no longer maintain a blue water navy, no one's going to have a fun time of it.

I'm not asserting an opinion, since I'm wildly unqualified (on this.  and in general too, but also on this) - is that based on the assumption that there will be rampant piracy?  Or nations acting and calling it piracy?

Or the Kraken?

/last one was a joke, but I mean the question seriously


Ask the Taiwanese, for starters.
 
2020-04-10 2:36:01 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Guess Capt. Crozier's concerns weren't misplaced, were they?


No, they weren't.  He still handled it badly, though...according to USN guys I got through to yesterday, since I was curious about their take on the whole mess.  His boss is right there on the carrier with him; he didn't need to send letters to anyone, even privately, even in his own chain of command.

And then the Acting SecNav did an even WORSE job when he relived him, they said; appropriate response is to just cap his rank, never promote him again.

Basically chock full of fail all the way around.
 
2020-04-10 2:37:08 PM  
Just to be clear; on blue water, nothing goes anywhere without The U.S. Navy's knowledge and permission.  And we have two ocean buffers to discourage an invasion.

/And the World's police man is soon retiring from the beat.  Good luck y'all
 
2020-04-10 2:37:24 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: kindms: look around and tell me healthcare isn't a national security / national defense issue

we are living a perfect example of why nationalized healthcare is not only needed but should be part of our defense strategy

The military has "nationalized" healthcare.  Not sure it's helping any.


I agree with you.

You are saying military personnel should be paying out-of-pocket for their own healthcare. Let's implement that immediately.
THAT is what you are saying, right?
See: The military has "nationalized" healthcare. Not sure it's helping any.

YOUR words, Clem
 
2020-04-10 2:41:15 PM  

jso2897: Thanks, Subby. We really needed for the IQ 80 military gearheads to get their chains yanked today.


If you are talking about Farkers you may have a point.  If you are talking about the military in general, you would be wrong
 
2020-04-10 2:42:27 PM  
Sort of.

The US has 11 fleet carriers. The rest of the world had 11. However, the rest of the world had 2 CATOBARs to the US's 11, plus five more STOBARs (one of which is the coal-powered and functionally sunken Kuznetsov).

There are six STOVLs. (Thus the US+allies have 17 fleet carriers, enemy nations have 2, independents have 2, the ocean has 1)

However, the US does not count STOVLs towards their fleet carrier list. We have an additional 9 STOVLs. Our STOVLs are as large as the other nations' STOVL "fleet carriers", except for the British QE class. Hell, they are as big as some of the smaller STOBARS.

So, functionally, the US has 18 carriers left to the rest of the world's 11, and 9 of those are much more capable than those 11.
 
2020-04-10 2:43:08 PM  
If you count our ships comparable to what other nations call "carriers" we have a whole lot more than that. IIRC there are only three or four other active super carriers in the world, outside the US fleet. And that's if you count the Russian one that's constantly breaking down as "active".
 
2020-04-10 2:43:43 PM  

Bslim: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: kindms: look around and tell me healthcare isn't a national security / national defense issue

we are living a perfect example of why nationalized healthcare is not only needed but should be part of our defense strategy

The military has "nationalized" healthcare.  Not sure it's helping any.

I agree with you.

You are saying military personnel should be paying out-of-pocket for their own healthcare. Let's implement that immediately.
THAT is what you are saying, right?
See: The military has "nationalized" healthcare. Not sure it's helping any.

YOUR words, Clem


sure.  You make the same as an E-1 then.  Idiot.
 
2020-04-10 2:43:47 PM  

zpaul: Pretty sure our sailors will Fight, even after being diagnosed with the 19.  We're fine


Commanded by a fascist controlled by Putin?  We're not fine.
 
2020-04-10 2:43:47 PM  

This text is now purple: Sort of.

The US has 11 fleet carriers. The rest of the world had 11. However, the rest of the world had 2 CATOBARs to the US's 11, plus five more STOBARs (one of which is the coal-powered and functionally sunken Kuznetsov).

There are six STOVLs. (Thus the US+allies have 17 fleet carriers, enemy nations have 2, independents have 2, the ocean has 1)

However, the US does not count STOVLs towards their fleet carrier list. We have an additional 9 STOVLs. Our STOVLs are as large as the other nations' STOVL "fleet carriers", except for the British QE class. Hell, they are as big as some of the smaller STOBARS.

So, functionally, the US has 18 carriers left to the rest of the world's 11, and 9 of those are much more capable than those 11.


Fark user imageView Full Size

In American terms, this is not a fleet carrier.

It is still bigger and more capable than fleet carriers in Japan, India, and Spain, and comparable to that fielded by France and Italy.
 
2020-04-10 2:44:09 PM  

Bondith: zpaul: Pretty sure our sailors will Fight, even after being diagnosed with the 19.  We're fine

Why do random words Require a capital?


He's German
 
2020-04-10 2:46:41 PM  

Jster422: Mouser: edmo: Our carries are usually way "over there" and not near enough to here to help much if we're invaded. And just like pandemic planning, we seem to be laying off experienced warfighters now.

The reason we're not being invaded is BECAUSE our carriers are usually way "over there".  The world is a much more peaceful place because the US Navy controls the seas.  If that goes away because we can no longer maintain a blue water navy, no one's going to have a fun time of it.

I'm not asserting an opinion, since I'm wildly unqualified (on this.  and in general too, but also on this) - is that based on the assumption that there will be rampant piracy?  Or nations acting and calling it piracy?

Or the Kraken?

/last one was a joke, but I mean the question seriously


It's an interesting question, and there's not a simple answer to it.  There's ALREADY piracy...better than 3 incidents a week, depending on how you define "incident".  Yes, it would probably get worse if the USN stayed home.

The next question is...so what?  We have about 100-and-change US-flagged cargo ships...and there are about 50,000 worldwide, total, flagged everywhere else, when I checked last year.

Might be time for the US taxpayer to quit subsidizing 99% of them.  We produce our own food and energy; everything else is a luxury.
 
2020-04-10 2:49:48 PM  

johnny_vegas: jso2897: Thanks, Subby. We really needed for the IQ 80 military gearheads to get their chains yanked today.

If you are talking about Farkers you may have a point.  If you are talking about the military in general, you would be wrong


Why would you think I was talking about the military in general?
That's just stupid.
 
2020-04-10 2:52:17 PM  
I thought ACs were outdated floating death traps anyway. Super easy to neutralize with today's smart missile tech.
 
2020-04-10 2:53:38 PM  

RottenEggs: The sailors on that coal burning Russian aircraft carrier are gonna die from black lung , so we got that going for us . And the Chinese carriers are made from Chinese parts so that's a win .


The Chinese surface vessels aren't the problem.  The Chinese anti-ship missiles?  THOSE could be a problem.

Actually, a Pearl Harbor-level problem, for our guys close enough to Taiwan, if they don't bother giving advance warning...depending on which analysts you listen to.

And they've got enough mines to seal the area up again if they take out the onsite carrier group; we don't have enough minesweepers to take it back.
 
2020-04-10 2:53:43 PM  
They have already invaded us with their BIO-TERRORISM!!!!

Get in your bunkers
 
2020-04-10 2:56:52 PM  

H31N0US: I thought ACs were outdated floating death traps anyway. Super easy to neutralize with today's smart missile tech.


Some of the Chinese and Russian missiles put up scary numbers, sure...but nobody REALLY knows until they try...and that kicks off a serious war, depending on who tries it.

Only 100% certain way is an airburst nuke over the carrier group...and that kicks off WW3, with nukes coming right back at the offending party.
 
2020-04-10 2:56:54 PM  

jso2897: johnny_vegas: jso2897: Thanks, Subby. We really needed for the IQ 80 military gearheads to get their chains yanked today.

If you are talking about Farkers you may have a point.  If you are talking about the military in general, you would be wrong

Why would you think I was talking about the military in general?
That's just stupid.


Well, I considered the source
 
2020-04-10 3:00:14 PM  

TomDooley: Well that's what happens when you have someone "acting" as Secretary of the Navy.


Apparently wasn't available.

media-amazon.comView Full Size

 
2020-04-10 3:04:13 PM  

PunGent: And they've got enough mines to seal the area up again if they take out the onsite carrier group; we don't have enough minesweepers to take it back.


Two nations can play a mining game.

China needs an amphibious landing to get to Taiwan; tricky is mines are about.
China's ports can be mined from hostile neighboring countries; the US's cannot.
 
2020-04-10 3:11:32 PM  
Unless the laws of logistics not longer apply no one and I mean no one is invading the continental United States. Not with ever other ship afloat including all the cargo ships in the US reserve could you support an army that could do anything except whither and die on the end of its impossible supply chain. Even if it was unopposed completely it simply could not be done with current military technology. 

The US doesn't use its military to keep us safe, its used to project its will around the globe and keep the other international actors in line so people can continue to make money hand over fist the world over. " Do you think those GIs run into battle crying ' life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'? the die for the DOW and always have. That is what those carriers are for, showing the flag and making others toe the line.
 
2020-04-10 3:24:27 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Benevolent Misanthrope: At this point, that might be preferable, depending on who "they" are.  Norway?  Yes, please.  China?  Not so much.

They'll heal us to death with a strong social safety net!


Oil revenues tend to thin out when you head too far north of a few million people.
 
2020-04-10 3:25:26 PM  

Jster422: Mouser: edmo: Our carries are usually way "over there" and not near enough to here to help much if we're invaded. And just like pandemic planning, we seem to be laying off experienced warfighters now.

The reason we're not being invaded is BECAUSE our carriers are usually way "over there".  The world is a much more peaceful place because the US Navy controls the seas.  If that goes away because we can no longer maintain a blue water navy, no one's going to have a fun time of it.

I'm not asserting an opinion, since I'm wildly unqualified (on this.  and in general too, but also on this) - is that based on the assumption that there will be rampant piracy?  Or nations acting and calling it piracy?

Or the Kraken?

/last one was a joke, but I mean the question seriously


He's overstating the importance of our fleets.  The oceans wouldn't suddenly become the wild west if we don't have the fleets constantly patrolling.  There are other nations that are our allies that patrol areas.

Straight of hormuz and the South china sea would definitely become problem areas, but the world would not suddenly start attacking eachother in the oceans because our ships are docked.

They are more nation state actor deterrents than actual peacekeepers of the oceans.  Who would want to attack us when we have a carrier group within striking distance of your capital at any time?

So yes, our navy does do anti-piracy, it is a deterrent, but more of an all out deterrent from starting wars, not attacking other ships.
 
2020-04-10 3:25:39 PM  
They have corona virus on their ships also...
 
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