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(NPR)   From the company formerly known as TransCanada: Hey, now would be a good time for us to move forward with building that Keystone XL Pipeline, right? We good?   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Petroleum, controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline, TC Energy, Canadian company, Russ Girling, levels of government, rural communities, today's announcement  
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1628 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Mar 2020 at 5:15 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-03-31 4:27:23 PM  
They need to move it now, before the carbon taxes kick in.  Once oil and gas is priced properly, it's all over as a growth industry.  That's why the export ban was lifted.  The oil companies need to export this stuff, badly, before it becomes worth a lot less.

Good luck with the Saudis.  They have their own ideas.
 
2020-03-31 5:17:43 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: They need to move it now, before the carbon taxes kick in.  Once oil and gas is priced properly, it's all over as a growth industry.  That's why the export ban was lifted.  The oil companies need to export this stuff, badly, before it becomes worth a lot less.

Good luck with the Saudis.  They have their own ideas.


By priced properly are you referring to the additional carbon taxes and stuff placed on top or the supply and demand?
 
2020-03-31 5:19:33 PM  
Greed cares not for a pandemic.
 
2020-03-31 5:19:45 PM  
With Canadian oil trading for less than $5/barrel**, of course this makes sense.

** yes, you are reading that correctly Western Canadian Select US$4.69
 
2020-03-31 5:19:58 PM  
What, with oil cheaper than ever?

I would think they would be grateful they were prevented from going through with it.

Oh, and for anyone who approves of Eminent Domain for this project, I would like to know where you stood on Kelo v. New London.
 
2020-03-31 5:20:55 PM  
Need to start now so that future admins cannot shut it down.
 
2020-03-31 5:21:39 PM  
That certainly isn't an essential business.
 
2020-03-31 5:22:07 PM  

fark account name: With Canadian oil trading for less than $5/barrel**, of course this makes sense.

** yes, you are reading that correctly Western Canadian Select US$4.69


The glut be done when this gets done a few years from now.
 
2020-03-31 5:24:21 PM  

lindalouwho: That certainly isn't an essential business.


The campaign funds oil spice must flow.
 
2020-03-31 5:25:44 PM  
Aren't they giving free barrels of oil out if you stop at a convenience store to buy some milk?
 
2020-03-31 5:31:11 PM  
TC Energy, Confederated Slave Holdings, Trans-Atlantic Zeppelin, Amalgamated Spats, Congreve's Inflammable Powders, U.S. Hay and an up-and-coming Baltimore Opera Hat Company.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-03-31 5:31:22 PM  
I could have sworn "tar sand" oil extraction was only viable when oil was ridiculously expensive.  Like back in 2008 when oil was almost $150/barrel.
 
2020-03-31 5:40:22 PM  

Saiga410: The glut be done when this gets done a few years from now.



Keystone xl is about getting oil to foreign markets. There isn't any particular benefit for the US, escept for construction jobs, and for Alberta it's the ability to sell oil without dealing with those treacherous BCers. The price of Canada Select has been lower by about half through boom and bust. If Alberta gains a pipeline to move oil to market, the price may finally rise to somewhere near equilibrium, but it's still low-grade oil.

The glut could end this afternoon if the Saudis and Russians decided to turn the taps down, however the US oil industry needs to be bytch-slapped a lot more before the market is allowed to stabilize.
 
2020-03-31 5:42:48 PM  

fark account name: With Canadian oil trading for less than $5/barrel**, of course this makes sense.

** yes, you are reading that correctly Western Canadian Select US$4.69


At what point does it become unprofitable?  Under a $1 a barrel?
 
2020-03-31 5:46:09 PM  
Hmm. Lost at every level preventing a project. What wrench can we try to throw now!?
I know!  We'll scare people with a virus!  Nevermind that this will be a long project, and couldn't really be much in the works until well past peak, VIRUS!
 
2020-03-31 5:46:15 PM  
The Keystone pipeline is as worthless as far sands oil now...
 
2020-03-31 5:52:45 PM  

whither_apophis: fark account name: With Canadian oil trading for less than $5/barrel**, of course this makes sense.

** yes, you are reading that correctly Western Canadian Select US$4.69

At what point does it become unprofitable?  Under a $1 a barrel?


well whatever youre willing to sell ~160 billion of them for that theyve told us about publically
 
2020-03-31 5:53:21 PM  

jtown: I could have sworn "tar sand" oil extraction was only viable when oil was ridiculously expensive.  Like back in 2008 when oil was almost $150/barrel.


I think Oil needed to be at $50/bbl before the oil sands became worthwhile to process, and that number was from about 2006 - it didn't take long for $50 to disappear in the rear-view mirror. As oil increased in price. the oil sands made more economic sense to exploit, and when the price fell (2016 and now) a lot of dogs were kicked. I can understand why Alberta wants a pipeline, but looking at it through any other lens, environmental, global supply, makes it folly.
 
2020-03-31 6:00:26 PM  
Strange timing for the announcement.

I dunno.  I might feel differently if I was a descendant of career labourers in the oil and gas industry.  But it's hard to see how greenlighting this project squares with the national "zero emissions by 2050" target.

Albertan discourse on this seems so binary.  You either force oil and gas to be viable, or everybody dies.  Labour diversification doesn't seem to come up much.
 
2020-03-31 6:09:41 PM  

in flagrante: Strange timing for the announcement.

I dunno.  I might feel differently if I was a descendant of career labourers in the oil and gas industry.  But it's hard to see how greenlighting this project squares with the national "zero emissions by 2050" target.

Albertan discourse on this seems so binary.  You either force oil and gas to be viable, or everybody dies.  Labour diversification doesn't seem to come up much.


Once you get out of the mountains, Albertans kinda seem a little ... One dimensional.
 
2020-03-31 6:10:36 PM  
Social distancing puts a damper on protests.
 
2020-03-31 6:10:39 PM  
The low prices won't last forever. At some point this pipeline will be economically viable. The longer they wait to build it, the more it will cost them, so they're trying to jump in now. I bet they can hire workers at a discount with everything else closed down.
 
2020-03-31 6:23:44 PM  

Farxist Marxist: jtown: I could have sworn "tar sand" oil extraction was only viable when oil was ridiculously expensive.  Like back in 2008 when oil was almost $150/barrel.

I think Oil needed to be at $50/bbl before the oil sands became worthwhile to process, and that number was from about 2006 - it didn't take long for $50 to disappear in the rear-view mirror. As oil increased in price. the oil sands made more economic sense to exploit, and when the price fell (2016 and now) a lot of dogs were kicked. I can understand why Alberta wants a pipeline, but looking at it through any other lens, environmental, global supply, makes it folly.


Break point on a barrel depends on how established the facility is and the competency of the major running it.

For my employer, costs are as high as 34 dollars a barrel and as low as 7.

As for the quality statement - it depends on what you want to process. Heavy oil is flat out required to produce certain products that can't be obtained by processing lighter oils. And synthetic grades are, again, dependant on the facility.

The newest stuff can command a premium by virtue of the continual development of the facility extracting it. Like most things the process gets better with time and development.
 
2020-03-31 6:25:37 PM  
If you don't think NPR is compromised, consider the fact that they did not even mention how difficult it will be to organize protests in the current environment... Even as they tout TransCanada's assurances that they'll be taking covid advice.
 
2020-03-31 6:26:50 PM  

American-Irish eyes: Marcus Aurelius: They need to move it now, before the carbon taxes kick in.  Once oil and gas is priced properly, it's all over as a growth industry.  That's why the export ban was lifted.  The oil companies need to export this stuff, badly, before it becomes worth a lot less.

Good luck with the Saudis.  They have their own ideas.

By priced properly are you referring to the additional carbon taxes and stuff placed on top or the supply and demand?


Carbon taxes.  Burning oil causes great additional harm to the planet, so it has to cost a lot to use it.  The longer we wait to stop, the more it's going to have to cost to have an effect.  The US government should have a $60/bbl price floor on all domestic oil sales, with the tax revenue going to solar, wind, and electric storage subsidies.

People will wake up to global warming, much like the Coronavirus, when it hits them in the face.
 
2020-03-31 6:34:07 PM  
I mean it makes sense from a financial standpoint. They can save a lot of money hiring regular right wing terrorists to harass and maim peaceful protesters instead of having to pay those pesky markups for actual mercenaries.
 
2020-03-31 6:37:23 PM  
Rather than a Keystone pipeline, can it at least be a Molson pipeline?

The US could fight back with a Bud Light pipeline.
 
2020-03-31 7:06:24 PM  
"The Keystone XL pipeline was a nonstarter a decade ago, and it remains one today," says Hannah McKinnon with Oil Change International, which has long challenged the economics of the project.

The company already has started construction work along the route and expects the Keystone XL pipeline will be in service in 2023.


That sure sounds like a starter to me.
 
2020-03-31 7:39:00 PM  
Maybe they can fill the pipeline with sanitizer.
 
2020-03-31 7:57:49 PM  
Native Americans: Wanna bet, White Man?
 
2020-03-31 8:43:56 PM  
Good day for it now that they gutted Obama's MPG standards.
 
2020-03-31 8:52:17 PM  

Dakai: Native Americans: Wanna bet, White Man?


White Man:  Hey, wanna build a string of casinos along the Interstate?
 
2020-03-31 8:56:30 PM  
If they *are* going ahead with building it, I hope someone got/gets them to agree to running fat fiber with low-cost distribution for rural broadband along the line.

They ought to be running redundant fiber bundles anyway, to facilitate their own monitoring of the pipeline's integrity through its whole length.  The people who's land and water table it risks ought to gain more benefit than just an extra ration of anxiety.
 
2020-03-31 8:59:01 PM  

SansNeural: Dakai: Native Americans: Wanna bet, White Man?

White Man:  Hey, wanna build a string of casinos along the Interstate?


Sure, we'll just take back what's ours one nickel at a time.
 
2020-03-31 9:19:13 PM  
Then the shootings began.
 
2020-03-31 11:15:19 PM  

fark account name: With Canadian oil trading for less than $5/barrel**, of course this makes sense.

** yes, you are reading that correctly Western Canadian Select US$4.69


That's one of the reasons TC is so het up to get the thing built -- one of the major reasons for the Western Canadian Select discount is that it's hell to deliver it anyplace past the terminal in Hardisty.  And the oil sands producers find it more difficult and expensive to shut-in than just about any other land-based oil source, so they're kind of stuck running even at crappy prices.  The thought is that if they can get some of that oil to the high-complexity refiners in the US cheaply they may have a chance at making a buck when the economy recovers.

In fairness, the producers have got their cash costs down -- it was around $20/bbl last I checked and it's doubtless lower now since one of the major inputs is -- heh -- natural gas.

But they're still wrong.  It's going to be a looooong time before the highest-cost oil in the world is economic, if ever.
 
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