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(The Morning Call)   Pennsylvania man with 3 DUIs serves his time and moves to Florida and becomes a felon without committing a crime   (mcall.com) divider line
    More: Florida, United States, Supreme Court of the United States, New Jersey, United States Constitution, Misdemeanor, Criminal law, Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, U.S. Virgin Islands  
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9366 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 23 Feb 2020 at 9:52 AM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2020-02-23 8:29:39 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2020-02-23 8:35:11 AM  
well, you have to work your way up.

Like Sam Malone once said, you gotta be a babe pup before you you can be a babe hound.
 
2020-02-23 8:38:14 AM  
Article shows how he wasn't done serving the time and how the crime followed him, but knowing that would mean having to have read the article... Submitter.

If anything his probation officer should have said something at the time he told them he was moving. I can't believe it wouldn't have been brought up even once.
 
2020-02-23 8:42:25 AM  
From TFA: "...the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision, which allows people to transfer probation or parole to a new state, has a twist - it tells a state to apply its standards to the new resident's crime."

That seems a bit odd, but it's been the law for a while.

Also, WTF is wrong with Pennsylvania that a third offense DUI is still just a misdemeanor?

The way I see the DUI progression should be:

1) First offense -- yeah, you made a mistake. Pay this fine, take these points, learn your lesson.

2) Second offense -- you didn't learn your lesson, so say goodbye to your license for six month, enjoy your probation, pay this much larger fine.

3) Third offense -- fark you. No car, no license for ten years, enjoy your year in jail as a convicted felon, and pay this massive fine.

Any offense after that, attempted murder charges with commiserate incarceration times and permanent revocation of license.
 
2020-02-23 8:53:41 AM  

Man On A Mission: From TFA: "...the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision, which allows people to transfer probation or parole to a new state, has a twist - it tells a state to apply its standards to the new resident's crime."

That seems a bit odd, but it's been the law for a while.

Also, WTF is wrong with Pennsylvania that a third offense DUI is still just a misdemeanor?

The way I see the DUI progression should be:

1) First offense -- yeah, you made a mistake. Pay this fine, take these points, learn your lesson.

2) Second offense -- you didn't learn your lesson, so say goodbye to your license for six month, enjoy your probation, pay this much larger fine.

3) Third offense -- fark you. No car, no license for ten years, enjoy your year in jail as a convicted felon, and pay this massive fine.

Any offense after that, attempted murder charges with commiserate incarceration times and permanent revocation of license.


Pretty much...after I read 3rd DUI, my sympathy went away.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2020-02-23 9:12:01 AM  
It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.
 
2020-02-23 9:27:55 AM  

arrogantbastich: If anything his probation officer should have said something at the time he told them he was moving. I can't believe it wouldn't have been brought up even once.


Case load. I'll bet the probation officers have so much work that they're mostly just ticking boxes and moving paper. Their goal is to not get too far behind, nothing more.
 
2020-02-23 9:46:19 AM  
I'm assuming it's because the Floridians consider it so mundane he was only influence of alcohol while driving a car on a road, and not hopped-up on flash-fried alligator pituitary glands while racing stolen EPCOT trams backwards through a megachurch yard sale.
 
2020-02-23 9:57:45 AM  

Man On A Mission: The way I see the DUI progression should be:


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-02-23 9:57:58 AM  

ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.


In Florida, felons can be denied apartment rentals; and for some crimes, like domestic violence, they cannot obtain leases or be on a lease, even if they completed their sentence. Also, those types of felonies cannot be expunged or sealed.

And yes, this has a very serious impact on homelessness down here.
 
2020-02-23 9:59:19 AM  
Good.
 
2020-02-23 10:00:10 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I'm assuming it's because the Floridians consider it so mundane he was only influence of alcohol while driving a car on a road, and not hopped-up on flash-fried alligator pituitary glands while racing stolen EPCOT trams backwards through a megachurch yard sale.


You sound like you know how to have a good time.
 
2020-02-23 10:06:15 AM  

Gyrfalcon: ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.

In Florida, felons can be denied apartment rentals; and for some crimes, like domestic violence, they cannot obtain leases or be on a lease, even if they completed their sentence. Also, those types of felonies cannot be expunged or sealed.

And yes, this has a very serious impact on homelessness down here.


We also have a ton of ex cons who move down here to make a new "start" and start criming again.

They always end up here in Ocala.
 
2020-02-23 10:19:13 AM  
And we wonder why criminals have a hard time getting back on the path.
 
2020-02-23 10:20:45 AM  

arrogantbastich: Article shows how he wasn't done serving the time and how the crime followed him, but knowing that would mean having to have read the article... Submitter.

If anything his probation officer should have said something at the time he told them he was moving. I can't believe it wouldn't have been brought up even once.


It was.  In the book of papers he was given three seconds to read before signing.
 
2020-02-23 10:21:17 AM  

edmo: And we wonder why criminals have a hard time getting back on the path.


Something to think about before going out drinking with the plan to drive yourself home.
 
2020-02-23 10:24:36 AM  

Man On A Mission: From TFA: "...the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision, which allows people to transfer probation or parole to a new state, has a twist - it tells a state to apply its standards to the new resident's crime."

That seems a bit odd, but it's been the law for a while.

Also, WTF is wrong with Pennsylvania that a third offense DUI is still just a misdemeanor?

The way I see the DUI progression should be:

1) First offense -- yeah, you made a mistake. Pay this fine, take these points, learn your lesson.

2) Second offense -- you didn't learn your lesson, so say goodbye to your license for six month, enjoy your probation, pay this much larger fine.

3) Third offense -- fark you. No car, no license for ten years, enjoy your year in jail as a convicted felon, and pay this massive fine.

Any offense after that, attempted murder charges with commiserate incarceration times and permanent revocation of license.


That's how it is unless there was some sort of plea bargain. My first DUI was an ungraded misdemeanor, loss of license for 30 days, a $1000 fine, and ARD. My second DUI was a M1, which they graciously allowed me to plea down to another ungraded, though I lost my license for a year, did ARD again, had psychological counseling, a stint in rehab in lieu of prison, and about $25000 in total costs. And, for the record, the night I was arrested the second time was the night of my last drink, since this is Fark and I know what's coming.

I was informed that if there was a third time in the next 10 years it would be an automatic felony. Why it wasn't with this guy I don't know. It would have to have been some kind of plea bargain.

In any case, what happened to him wasn't exactly right but he did luck out to begin with. I wonder if now that a Florida upgraded it to a felony if that will follow him everywhere, because I don't think that would be right.
 
2020-02-23 10:28:22 AM  
Oh Heritage Day, the gift that keeps on giving.
 
2020-02-23 10:28:51 AM  

ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.


Would you rent to a felon?  They're nearly impossible to employ.  As a landlord, I won't rent to a felon for this reason, and the fact that, he's you know, a felon still serving out his sentence and paying court costs and at risk of reoffending or going to prison and not completing the lease, so he's a higher risk tenant and must make a larger deposit.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  Just like any other bad credit situation.
 
2020-02-23 10:30:15 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I wonder if now that a Florida upgraded it to a felony if that will follow him everywhere, because I don't think that would be right.


That's what I'd like to know.  If it does, there has to be some constitutional violation there.  He wasn't tried in Florida, his plea agreement/sentencing was not in Florida.  You shouldn't have things upgraded to a felony ex post facto like.
 
2020-02-23 10:31:04 AM  

ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.


He was still on probation/parole.  He transferred his probation/parole to florida which meant he was now subject to florida judicial system.  He saw Florida judges and florida parole officers.  So if he had waited out his parole in Pennsylvania and then moved down it wouldn't have had any effect.
 
2020-02-23 10:33:04 AM  
This is what happens when you mix Pennsylvania with Florida.  Next, let's try a New Jersey / Ohio story so we can compare.
 
2020-02-23 10:36:07 AM  

theflatline: We also have a ton of ex cons who move down here to make a new "start" and start criming again.

They always end up here in Ocala.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-02-23 10:36:40 AM  

theflatline: Gyrfalcon: ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.

In Florida, felons can be denied apartment rentals; and for some crimes, like domestic violence, they cannot obtain leases or be on a lease, even if they completed their sentence. Also, those types of felonies cannot be expunged or sealed.

And yes, this has a very serious impact on homelessness down here.

We also have a ton of ex cons who move down here to make a new "start" and start criming again.

They always end up here in Ocala.


Or Pasco and Polk Counties.
 
2020-02-23 10:38:59 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-02-23 10:40:06 AM  
I mean this all sounds pretty reasonable. Different states have different laws, and if i had priors, i'd want to know how that affects me where i move.

But thinking ahead probably isn't a strong suit of someone with 3 DUI's even if they did get their shiat together eventually.

Should i be able to move from texas to california and keep the same gun laws i had because i got them all in texas?
 
2020-02-23 10:44:02 AM  
I was born in Florida and I was lucky enough to get out of Florida... trust me, don't go to Florida
 
2020-02-23 10:46:38 AM  

Tinderlicious: ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.

Would you rent to a felon?  They're nearly impossible to employ.  As a landlord, I won't rent to a felon for this reason, and the fact that, he's you know, a felon still serving out his sentence and paying court costs and at risk of reoffending or going to prison and not completing the lease, so he's a higher risk tenant and must make a larger deposit.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  Just like any other bad credit situation.


Ditto. Landlord checking in. Most of us aren't swimming in cash and happy to break even on expenses during the year, and look at it as a retirement investment or something to fall back to.

One bad tenant will blow up your numbers for the year, and that assumes stuff goes quickly and your way in court, (which is a big assumption) and your tenant doesn't literally trash the place when stuff goes south (another assumption).

My bank doesn't care you aren't paying your rent or why. They will care though if i don't pay my note to them and turn the screws on me, even if i'm sympathetic to your situation.

And if they did factor in "ok, we feel bad, we will let this slide" my interest rate would be a multiple of what it is. And that in turn would be passed down the line, and your rent would be considerably more.

Would i rent to a guy that had 3 dui's but had shown he has his shiat together? Sure. Would i rent to a guy  that i know the slightest minor infraction lands him in the clink, and he is marginally employable if his current gig falls through? No.
 
2020-02-23 10:47:34 AM  

LineNoise: I mean this all sounds pretty reasonable. Different states have different laws, and if i had priors, i'd want to know how that affects me where i move.

But thinking ahead probably isn't a strong suit of someone with 3 DUI's even if they did get their shiat together eventually.

Should i be able to move from texas to california and keep the same gun laws i had because i got them all in texas?


That's not even remotely the same thing.  It would be like California arresting you for what you legally did in Texas.
 
2020-02-23 10:49:30 AM  

Jeebus Saves: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I wonder if now that a Florida upgraded it to a felony if that will follow him everywhere, because I don't think that would be right.

That's what I'd like to know.  If it does, there has to be some constitutional violation there.  He wasn't tried in Florida, his plea agreement/sentencing was not in Florida.  You shouldn't have things upgraded to a felony ex post facto like.


At some point in the last few years, Kentucky determined that a DUI stays on your record for 10 years (it was previously 5).  They made it retroactive. So suddenly, people who hadn't had DUIs on their record for years had DUIs again, 1st DUIs became 2nd DUIs, etc.  A mess, to say the least
 
2020-02-23 10:55:54 AM  

Jeebus Saves: LineNoise: I mean this all sounds pretty reasonable. Different states have different laws, and if i had priors, i'd want to know how that affects me where i move.

But thinking ahead probably isn't a strong suit of someone with 3 DUI's even if they did get their shiat together eventually.

Should i be able to move from texas to california and keep the same gun laws i had because i got them all in texas?

That's not even remotely the same thing.  It would be like California arresting you for what you legally did in Texas.


Shut up, you'll give California ideas.
 
2020-02-23 10:56:40 AM  

Man On A Mission: From TFA: "...the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision, which allows people to transfer probation or parole to a new state, has a twist - it tells a state to apply its standards to the new resident's crime."

That seems a bit odd, but it's been the law for a while.

Also, WTF is wrong with Pennsylvania that a third offense DUI is still just a misdemeanor?

The way I see the DUI progression should be:

1) First offense -- yeah, you made a mistake. Pay this fine, take these points, learn your lesson.

2) Second offense -- you didn't learn your lesson, so say goodbye to your license for six month, enjoy your probation, pay this much larger fine.

3) Third offense -- fark you. No car, no license for ten years, enjoy your year in jail as a convicted felon, and pay this massive fine.

Any offense after that, attempted murder charges with commiserate incarceration times and permanent revocation of license.


You probably shouldn't voice that opinion in the upper Midwest.

Drunk driving is as sacred to them as deer hunting, ice fishing, and talking with funny accents.
 
2020-02-23 10:59:11 AM  

gar1013: Man On A Mission: From TFA: "...the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision, which allows people to transfer probation or parole to a new state, has a twist - it tells a state to apply its standards to the new resident's crime."

That seems a bit odd, but it's been the law for a while.

Also, WTF is wrong with Pennsylvania that a third offense DUI is still just a misdemeanor?

The way I see the DUI progression should be:

1) First offense -- yeah, you made a mistake. Pay this fine, take these points, learn your lesson.

2) Second offense -- you didn't learn your lesson, so say goodbye to your license for six month, enjoy your probation, pay this much larger fine.

3) Third offense -- fark you. No car, no license for ten years, enjoy your year in jail as a convicted felon, and pay this massive fine.

Any offense after that, attempted murder charges with commiserate incarceration times and permanent revocation of license.

You probably shouldn't voice that opinion in the upper Midwest.

Drunk driving is as sacred to them as deer hunting, ice fishing, and talking with funny accents.


And that's just during the second week of deer camp. By the third week, the casualties really start piling up.
 
2020-02-23 11:11:42 AM  
3rd DUI. I'm surprised that didn't automatically get him put on the ballot for governor of Florida
 
2020-02-23 11:12:45 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: In any case, what happened to him wasn't exactly right but he did luck out to begin with. I wonder if now that a Florida upgraded it to a felony if that will follow him everywhere, because I don't think that would be right.


I was just wondering, if crimes can be reclassified upward when moving between states, can they also be reclassified downward?  And second, just as you wondered, if someone's crime is reclassified as a felony, would it return to a misdemeanor if they returned to the state that crime originally happened in?
 
2020-02-23 11:19:43 AM  
I got my first DUI two years ago, the judge said I was not driving but said i had the intent to drive. I said I had driven before, and will drive again, so I appreciate the "flawgic" of his rationale. He evidently didn't like that, but I had complied with all the required penance and fines. i did complete my counseling, but elected to continue it voluntarily since I find it therapeutic and don't want to characterize myself as just completing the bare minimum. Wife dioesn't liike it at all, volunteering and doing things on my own, she feels it's eroding the power she has over me. But I can still do my own things, right? She doesn't like it my counselor knows so much about me, i.e. wher I live, and most of my possessions. She had commented before that I live in the best neighborhood in the village. My Wife said that statement screamed "Kathy Bates".
 
2020-02-23 11:20:28 AM  
When he completes his probation does is he still a felon? Can he move to another state or back to PA and not be a felon?
 
2020-02-23 11:28:17 AM  

Barfmaker: arrogantbastich: If anything his probation officer should have said something at the time he told them he was moving. I can't believe it wouldn't have been brought up even once.

Case load. I'll bet the probation officers have so much work that they're mostly just ticking boxes and moving paper. Their goal is to not get too far behind, nothing more.


Nice to see Farkers take the word of an inveterate scum bag at face value.  Nigerian Prince on line 2 for you!
 
2020-02-23 11:31:48 AM  

Gyrfalcon: ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.

In Florida, felons can be denied apartment rentals; and for some crimes, like domestic violence, they cannot obtain leases or be on a lease, even if they completed their sentence. Also, those types of felonies cannot be expunged or sealed.

And yes, this has a very serious impact on homelessness down here.


Some sex offenders are literally forced to carve out camps in the woods because of all the restrictions.  Strangely, Epstein was not so affected.
 
2020-02-23 11:40:49 AM  

bighairyguy: This is what happens when you mix Pennsylvania with Florida.  Next, let's try a New Jersey / Ohio story so we can compare.


You joke but if you trace back the roots of most "Florida man" stories this becomes the obvious truth, especially with Ohio.

Add Michigan in there also.
 
2020-02-23 11:41:00 AM  
This is what happens when localities feel and legislate differently about offenses. The bigger issue is if the offender has done the requisite penance they should return to an appropriate set of rights.

But our system isn't very interested in rehabilitation or management. Mostly punishment well past when they've paid their debt.
 
2020-02-23 11:51:01 AM  

Ex-Texan: I got my first DUI two years ago, the judge said I was not driving but said i had the intent to drive. I said I had driven before, and will drive again, so I appreciate the "flawgic" of his rationale. He evidently didn't like that, but I had complied with all the required penance and fines. i did complete my counseling, but elected to continue it voluntarily since I find it therapeutic and don't want to characterize myself as just completing the bare minimum. Wife dioesn't liike it at all, volunteering and doing things on my own, she feels it's eroding the power she has over me. But I can still do my own things, right? She doesn't like it my counselor knows so much about me, i.e. wher I live, and most of my possessions. She had commented before that I live in the best neighborhood in the village. My Wife said that statement screamed "Kathy Bates".


I recall an incident from my childhood after reading your post.

The neighborhood I grew up in used to have a large picnic every summer. Dad's grilling, moms making sides, kids running everywhere. Of course the beers and bourbon flowed. At the end of the gala event, Dad went into the TV room and passed out on the couch. Mother was ANGRY. Woke his half drunk ass up and stated: "I don't understand, you didn't drink before we got married!"  Dad replied: "Does that indicate anything to you madame?"
/Mom was the control freak psycho biatch. Dad was a party waiting to happen. I sure do miss Dad
 
2020-02-23 11:52:09 AM  
When Texas wearies of carpetbaggers it could turn impossible misdemeanors into felonies like getting a parking ticket in Manhattan, or building a fire in the beach in cape cod, or causing a traffic jam in East ButtF*rk Montana.  Your mileage may vary.
 
2020-02-23 12:06:20 PM  
Florida has some harsh driver laws.

3rd and subsequent offense for driving on a suspended or revoked license is a felony with a 5 year mandatory sentence, much less dui.

If you move here and apply for a drivers license, they check every other state to see if there is any reason to deny you.

45 years ago the joke was : go to florida on vacation, leave on probation.
No reason to believe it has gotten any better since.
 
2020-02-23 12:08:41 PM  
Ha ha ha jokes on him, had he been rich, he'd have no convictions or probation!
 
2020-02-23 12:21:45 PM  

Naido: Jeebus Saves: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I wonder if now that a Florida upgraded it to a felony if that will follow him everywhere, because I don't think that would be right.

That's what I'd like to know.  If it does, there has to be some constitutional violation there.  He wasn't tried in Florida, his plea agreement/sentencing was not in Florida.  You shouldn't have things upgraded to a felony ex post facto like.

At some point in the last few years, Kentucky determined that a DUI stays on your record for 10 years (it was previously 5).  They made it retroactive. So suddenly, people who hadn't had DUIs on their record for years had DUIs again, 1st DUIs became 2nd DUIs, etc.  A mess, to say the least


Huh.  I didn't know that.  I got my DUI back in 2005 when I was a dumbass 21 year old.  I pled guilty and joined the Army and supposedly my record was expunged after 5 years.  Guess i should check on that.

/still in Army
//best decision I was ever forced to make.
///Even so, can't wait to be out
 
2020-02-23 12:30:03 PM  

Turbo Cojones: Gyrfalcon: ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.

In Florida, felons can be denied apartment rentals; and for some crimes, like domestic violence, they cannot obtain leases or be on a lease, even if they completed their sentence. Also, those types of felonies cannot be expunged or sealed.

And yes, this has a very serious impact on homelessness down here.

Some sex offenders are literally forced to carve out camps in the woods because of all the restrictions.  Strangely, Epstein was not so affected.


No conviction. It makes a big difference.
 
2020-02-23 12:32:30 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Turbo Cojones: Gyrfalcon: ZAZ: It's strange that Florida's classification of a Pennsylvania crime should have any effect on renting an apartment.

In Florida, felons can be denied apartment rentals; and for some crimes, like domestic violence, they cannot obtain leases or be on a lease, even if they completed their sentence. Also, those types of felonies cannot be expunged or sealed.

And yes, this has a very serious impact on homelessness down here.

Some sex offenders are literally forced to carve out camps in the woods because of all the restrictions.  Strangely, Epstein was not so affected.

No conviction. It makes a big difference.


I believe you meant to say "Billions of dollars and high-placed political and business connections on all sides of the aisle. It makes a big difference."
 
2020-02-23 12:37:44 PM  

arrogantbastich: Article shows how he wasn't done serving the time and how the crime followed him, but knowing that would mean having to have read the article... Submitter.

If anything his probation officer should have said something at the time he told them he was moving. I can't believe it wouldn't have been brought up even once.


I'm giving submitters more leeway these days since so many news sources refuse to allow browsing in private mode, and turning off private mode is much more difficult than turning off adblock.
 
2020-02-23 12:50:49 PM  
I can understand a reason for this.  Otherwise, people may relocate to another state in order to be treated more leniently.
 
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