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    More: Interesting, United States Marine Corps, Military of the United States, Marine Captain Elle Ekman, Soldier, Military, procurement contracts, United States Department of Defense, United States Army  
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2949 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Feb 2020 at 6:45 PM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



26 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2020-02-08 5:36:11 PM  
Sometimes simplicity is sufficient.
 
2020-02-08 5:37:00 PM  

felching pen: Sometimes simplicity is sufficient.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-02-08 6:29:54 PM  

felching pen: felching pen: Sometimes simplicity is sufficient.

[Fark user image image 425x270]


I suspect that isn't a safe place to be when there are roadside bombs around.
 
2020-02-08 6:51:50 PM  
"You'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola company"
Youtube DUAK7t3Lf8s
 
2020-02-08 7:08:59 PM  
So send factory instructors over and certify them.

Years ago when I worked for a newspaper I couldn't rip apart the Macs because of warranty shiat so I was sent to Apple and trained by them. Problem solved.
 
2020-02-08 7:19:07 PM  
Oshkosh? By Gosh!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2020-02-08 7:50:18 PM  

saturn badger: So send factory instructors over and certify them.

Years ago when I worked for a newspaper I couldn't rip apart the Macs because of warranty shiat so I was sent to Apple and trained by them. Problem solved.


Adding one more item defence contractors can use to fleece the American taxpayer
 
2020-02-08 8:04:27 PM  
The first thing I thought of is the Legends of Tomorrow episode where a possessed Ray Palmer puts out an APP and deep in the EULA is a clause that using that APP means Neron (the demon possessing Ray) now owns your soul.

Always read the EULA!
 
2020-02-08 8:07:20 PM  

Driedsponge: saturn badger: So send factory instructors over and certify them.

Years ago when I worked for a newspaper I couldn't rip apart the Macs because of warranty shiat so I was sent to Apple and trained by them. Problem solved.

Adding one more item defence contractors can use to fleece the American taxpayer


How so? Over time it would save taxpayers a lot of money from having to pay a bunch of them in the field. You pay the training fee and you are good to go for at least a few years. I' sure the training would be much cheaper than importing their guys.
 
2020-02-08 8:22:13 PM  

saturn badger: Driedsponge: saturn badger: So send factory instructors over and certify them.

Years ago when I worked for a newspaper I couldn't rip apart the Macs because of warranty shiat so I was sent to Apple and trained by them. Problem solved.

Adding one more item defence contractors can use to fleece the American taxpayer

How so? Over time it would save taxpayers a lot of money from having to pay a bunch of them in the field. You pay the training fee and you are good to go for at least a few years. I' sure the training would be much cheaper than importing their guys.


I suspect the contractors would charge hellaciously ridiculous rates for average training, if they permit it all. I think their real objection is that they would be educating hundreds if not thousands of people in the dark and arcane secrets of the technology they so zealously guard. Imagine how much a retired Army tech could make, going home to Iowa knowing how to hack into GM trucks and Massey Fergoson combines.
 
2020-02-08 8:27:35 PM  
I would have thought that most of the things the military did with their toys would void most any manufacturers warranty.
 
2020-02-08 8:51:36 PM  

Gubbo: felching pen: felching pen: Sometimes simplicity is sufficient.

[Fark user image image 425x270]

I suspect that isn't a safe place to be when there are roadside bombs around.


The much bigger problem is why have unarmored vehicles in an area with road side bombs in the first place.
 
2020-02-08 9:18:46 PM  
The problem is that the warranty repair techs have an order of operations of smaller repairs which must be done before larger ones.  When a brake caliper was busted on my Ford Fusion, and I knew it was a stuck because of the unusually large amount of wear on the brake pad on one side, they wanted to charge me for a routine brake job before investigating further.

/I ended up just doing it all myself of course and will likely not get the extended warranty next time.
 
2020-02-09 12:31:59 AM  
Military procurement for equipment used on the battlefield should be able to be repaired by military personnel on the battlefield. Otherwise it's an unacceptable point of failure.
 
2020-02-09 12:44:41 AM  
Is this change of policy re procurement trump's fault?
 
2020-02-09 3:17:34 AM  

Glorious Golden Ass: The problem is that the warranty repair techs have an order of operations of smaller repairs which must be done before larger ones.  When a brake caliper was busted on my Ford Fusion, and I knew it was a stuck because of the unusually large amount of wear on the brake pad on one side, they wanted to charge me for a routine brake job before investigating further.

/I ended up just doing it all myself of course and will likely not get the extended warranty next time.


Lol, I didn't know Ford had fully independent braking. You shouldn't have been pressing the brake so hard on that corner!
 
2020-02-09 6:37:47 AM  

felching pen: saturn badger: Driedsponge: saturn badger: So send factory instructors over and certify them.

Years ago when I worked for a newspaper I couldn't rip apart the Macs because of warranty shiat so I was sent to Apple and trained by them. Problem solved.

Adding one more item defence contractors can use to fleece the American taxpayer

How so? Over time it would save taxpayers a lot of money from having to pay a bunch of them in the field. You pay the training fee and you are good to go for at least a few years. I' sure the training would be much cheaper than importing their guys.

I suspect the contractors would charge hellaciously ridiculous rates for average training, if they permit it all. I think their real objection is that they would be educating hundreds if not thousands of people in the dark and arcane secrets of the technology they so zealously guard. Imagine how much a retired Army tech could make, going home to Iowa knowing how to hack into GM trucks and Massey Fergoson combines.


Any military contract for outside training is going to pay hellaciously anyway. That's just what happens.
 
2020-02-09 7:44:04 AM  
I wonder if I could get one of those JLTVs for my morning commute. Looks like it would do well against the mounting hoards of assholes who can't keep their eyes off their farking phones for moar than 3 seconds at a time.
 
2020-02-09 8:34:27 AM  

saturn badger: So send factory instructors over and certify them.

Years ago when I worked for a newspaper I couldn't rip apart the Macs because of warranty shiat so I was sent to Apple and trained by them. Problem solved.


The problem is lack of commonality.  You have mechanics (or any technicians) that have to support "engines" or "generators" or "radar" or "lube oil system."  Because acquisition program offices are only motivated to deliver the functional requirement (do this mission) at the lowest possible procurement cost (how much does it cost to buy), they are constantly delivering new systems (guns, trucks, tanks, ships) that are not like the one they bought previously because the contractor du jour gets a better price on this variant of the same thing.  While it will likely do the job, when it breaks, it needs different parts, gets fixed in different ways, has different diagnostic codes, different training and different manuals.

So you have a mechanic that gets a new piece of gear that he doesn't know how to fix every year or so.  These guys sign up for 3-4 year contracts and spend the first year of it in training.  So we either pay the contractor their blood money to support (which is slow and expensive) or take mechanics off the front line to train them for 6 weeks at a time (when we don't have enough techs).  Or we could go back to single source, MILSPEC gear but then we have to deal with people complaining that we have $80 toilet seats while ignoring the fact that it costs like half as much over the lifetime of the part (but that is too complex for people to wrap their heads around).
 
2020-02-09 8:42:33 AM  

ukexpat: Is this change of policy re procurement trump's fault?


trump will tell you it's Obama's.

Bigly.
 
2020-02-09 10:53:37 AM  
The question I always have with crap like this is why the hell are we buying anything from contractors at all?

Military equipment in general and large purchases in specific should be produced in house. We're going to buy millions of rifles, millions of uniforms, thousands of vechicles etc. We design and produce these ourselves and we save billions. We have coherent products that work well together, we have no contracts and can redesign or tweak as needed.

Military equipment
generic prescription medicine
healthcare in general
basic banking
energy production

These should all be produced as non profit basic government services, not contracted to private companies.
 
2020-02-09 12:24:59 PM  
funny no one has mentioned the American farmer - who's been fighting this battle (with John Deere primarily) for that last few years - they're pretty pissed too ,,,,,,,,
 
2020-02-09 12:48:36 PM  

willwall: The question I always have with crap like this is why the hell are we buying anything from contractors at all?

Military equipment in general and large purchases in specific should be produced in house. We're going to buy millions of rifles, millions of uniforms, thousands of vechicles etc. We design and produce these ourselves and we save billions. We have coherent products that work well together, we have no contracts and can redesign or tweak as needed.

Military equipment
generic prescription medicine
healthcare in general
basic banking
energy production

These should all be produced as non profit basic government services, not contracted to private companies.


While I don't disagree in many ways, there are some reasons why some of this was dropped for lots of types of military equipment. Rifles for examples used to be designed and produced by the Ordnance Corps and the federal Springfield Armory (not the same thing as the company that exists today), they would develop the technical data package and design everything needed (tooling, jigs, assembly line setup, etc) to send to a private factory to set up production if excess capacity was needed, and it was all lead centrally by the armory. In theory, sounds great.

Well, institutional rot set in eventually. As an example, the US spent an absurd amount of resources and time developing the M14, far more than any other nation for a similar rifle, and it was basically just a modified existing M1 Garand with a larger magazine and a full auto giggle switch (subsequently deactivated before being issued in most cases) with a higher price tag. The M14 didn't really do what it was asked to do (which was impossible) and compromised in many ways its core purpose as in infantry rifle, arguably superior designs (AR10/FN FAL/etc) were intentionally sabotaged in testing (even after the US made tentative promises to adopt the FN FAL after the Ordnance Corps insisted on staying with a powerful cartridge like 7.62x51 and imposing that on other NATO allies as a result) as were potential successor rifles (M16) to further the careers of the Ordnance Corps that were invested in the M14. As such, we ended up with a situation where Ordnance Corps was actively suppressing efforts to provide better equipment, resulting in overly expensive and less capable equipment being issued to troops and some minor diplomatic kerfluffles. Eventually, this sort of thing got the Ordnance Corps shut down entirely by Macnamara in the 60's, and moved to the model we have today.

Personally, I'd have preferred to see the Ordnance Corps and Springfield Armory purged of their leadership and organizationally redeveloped (instead of dumped entirely), as the services they provided for lots of weapons are things that would have to be rebuilt from scratch if the US ever found itself in a major years long war again. It was a case of the people running them being bad, as opposed to their fundamental concept and purpose being no longer relevant. The wholesale dismantling of the apparatus and privatization has resulted in a proliferation of issues related to privatization down through the present day to this sort of thing.
 
2020-02-09 1:09:57 PM  

zbtop: willwall: The question I always have with crap like this is why the hell are we buying anything from contractors at all?

Military equipment in general and large purchases in specific should be produced in house. We're going to buy millions of rifles, millions of uniforms, thousands of vechicles etc. We design and produce these ourselves and we save billions. We have coherent products that work well together, we have no contracts and can redesign or tweak as needed.

Military equipment
generic prescription medicine
healthcare in general
basic banking
energy production

These should all be produced as non profit basic government services, not contracted to private companies.

While I don't disagree in many ways, there are some reasons why some of this was dropped for lots of types of military equipment. Rifles for examples used to be designed and produced by the Ordnance Corps and the federal Springfield Armory (not the same thing as the company that exists today), they would develop the technical data package and design everything needed (tooling, jigs, assembly line setup, etc) to send to a private factory to set up production if excess capacity was needed, and it was all lead centrally by the armory. In theory, sounds great.

Well, institutional rot set in eventually. As an example, the US spent an absurd amount of resources and time developing the M14, far more than any other nation for a similar rifle, and it was basically just a modified existing M1 Garand with a larger magazine and a full auto giggle switch (subsequently deactivated before being issued in most cases) with a higher price tag. The M14 didn't really do what it was asked to do (which was impossible) and compromised in many ways its core purpose as in infantry rifle, arguably superior designs (AR10/FN FAL/etc) were intentionally sabotaged in testing (even after the US made tentative promises to adopt the FN FAL after the Ordnance Corps insisted on staying with a powerful cartridge like 7.62x51 and imposing that on other NATO allies as a result) as were potential successor rifles (M16) to further the careers of the Ordnance Corps that were invested in the M14. As such, we ended up with a situation where Ordnance Corps was actively suppressing efforts to provide better equipment, resulting in overly expensive and less capable equipment being issued to troops and some minor diplomatic kerfluffles. Eventually, this sort of thing got the Ordnance Corps shut down entirely by Macnamara in the 60's, and moved to the model we have today.

Personally, I'd have preferred to see the Ordnance Corps and Springfield Armory purged of their leadership and organizationally redeveloped (instead of dumped entirely), as the services they provided for lots of weapons are things that would have to be rebuilt from scratch if the US ever found itself in a major years long war again. It was a case of the people running them being bad, as opposed to their fundamental concept and purpose being no longer relevant. The wholesale dismantling of the apparatus and privatization has resulted in a proliferation of issues related to privatization down through the present day to this sort of thing.


Sure institutional issues would be something that would need to be addressed. But there's similar issues with our bidding processes. Look at the f35.

I think that it's easier to deal with the in house issues if you set up a strong quality control process. With outside contractors you need the QA too, but it's difficult to control compliance.

The standard argument that innovation would suffer could be dealt with through a strong incentive plan for providing improvements or new designs. We could even open up some designing to outside contractors but still control the production and have ownership of the final product.
 
2020-02-09 1:53:35 PM  
I totally agree, sadly, such does not look to be the case in anything near the foreseeable future :(
 
2020-02-10 6:03:46 AM  
I hated the ('70s) servmart system in the Navy. The first time I had to use it my Chief told me to order a trashcan for the office. He handed me the catalog & some 1250s (self-replicating, carbons-inclusive ordering cards). It was a trial by fire learning experience. By knock-off, still hadn't found it in the catalog. After looking for every alternate name (waste can, waste paper basket, white can, garbage can, ...) I took the catalog to the mess hall and finally back to barracks, reading alphabetically through the hundreds of pages and thousands of items. Finally I found it under "R": "receptical, paper waste, round, metal, gray, 5 gal." Amidst items "receptical, cigarette ash" & "receptical, electrical socket."

When assigned to a photo lab in Spain, the PH1 told me we were getting low on Kodachrome and to order "500." I looked in the ServMart catalog and ordered "500 bx." Rolls of film each come in boxes, right? What could go wrong?  Evidently Kodak had some crates of film containing 1 doz gross rolls & "bx" meant extra-large box. I learned how to drive a forklift unloading that flatbed, & later reloading it to ship it all back. If it wasn't for the fact that every senior person in my chain-of-command was just as ignorant of what "bx" meant & authorized it, I might've bee in trouble.

In Diego Garcia Island, a Filipino Senior Chief told me his supply horror story: his Chief gave him a stack of documents & told him to burn them. He went to a friend who smoked & asked to borrow his lighter. "Why?" "Chief say he want me to burn all these." No, said the Filipino friend; "burn" means he wants you to make copies of these on the Xerox. "So I learn burn means to use fire & to copy."
    Later, his Chief gave him a grocery bag with red diagonal stripes on it and said, "Take care of this burn bag." His 1st Class PO found him smoothing a lot of crumpled paper & asked WTF? "Chief say to take care of burn bag, so I'm smoothing so they don't make jam in copier." No, this bag is.for classified documents that have to be destroyed; we used to burn these papers but now we use the shredder. "So, now I know 'to burn' means to use fire, to copy & to shred."
    "Then, my Chief finds out I almost made copies of classifieds which would be lots more paperworks. He calls me to his desk and tells me if I do that again, he gonna burn my ass good. I'm so afraid because English is so confusing I don't really know what he going to do to my ass and then I learn 'to burn' can mean to use fire or to copy of to shred or to give me good farking, and I don't want him to do that to my ass! I am so confused but now I know all meanings of word 'to burn'!"

Finally, towards the end of my career at a decommissioning site, I needed  some 1250s but there were none: they'd all been destroyed or returned  in advance of the decommissioning ceremony. I went to a neighboring command who would not give me a 1250. I had to find a 1250 in somebody's unguarded desk at lunch time to order a package (pk 100 ea) of 1250s for the half-doz I needed. After decommissioning, I took the rest & gave them to a very confused  Marine who was soon going to find out why you don't pre-print your acct#s on the 1250s you leave loosely lying around where anyone can use them & charge your command's a counts.

In the old C-Rats meals, my favorite meal was the Tuna because it came with a round Hershey Crackle Bar: "Disk, chocolate, w/crunchy nuggets: Type 7, Style B, Class 2." The meal I would not eat (each case came with 12 different meals) was the one that read "Chicken or Turkey, boned." 1) it should read "de-boned" unless they really were putting bones in the tin, & B) it was the word "or" that scared me: if they factory didn't know what kind of meat was going in the tin, I wasn't eating it.

Finally, while on a Civic Action Team on Ponape, a visiting senior officer was playing racquetball at the local school gym & he had a heart attack & died. I learned It is easier to order a coffin (case, transport for remains, human, deceased) than a farkin' shiate can! I admit I started by searching under "receptical."
 
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