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(Connecticut Post)   Florida... gets something right? And becomes one of the first states to use data-driven analysis to track criminal-justice outcomes   (ctpost.com) divider line
    More: Florida, Criminal law, Criminal justice, criminal justice system's issues, Veto, Status quo, Crime, last year, similar bill Gov. Ned Lamont  
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1858 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2020 at 7:50 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2020-01-13 07:06:43 PM  
FTA: "Anyone who enters the system is at the mercy of a prosecutor's decision-making. And because 97% of all criminal cases are settled with plea bargains, prosecutors almost never have to prove a defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt as they would in a trial conviction."

This is true, but defense attorneys who urge their clients to plead guilty when they're innocent share the blame.

In fact, the end blame lies in the entire overloaded system that cares more about getting cases closed than actual justice. And yes, this includes cops that file cases without thoroughly investigating them just to get them off their desks, and the prosecutors that accept these cases.
 
2020-01-13 07:33:31 PM  

CruiserTwelve: This is true, but defense attorneys who urge their clients to plead guilty when they're innocent share the blame.


If you don't have 6 figures to spend, you can't hire a trial attorney.

I know very few people with that kind of money.
 
2020-01-13 08:06:41 PM  
Florida and Connecticut, subby. The article is in the CT Post, after all.
 
2020-01-13 08:26:34 PM  
Well, they certainly have a large data set to drive their analysis.  And a diverse one as well.
 
2020-01-13 08:29:52 PM  
"Execute bill 880" the governor rasped.  Across the state, hundreds of corrupt prosecutors found themselves the targets of the very judicial system that they thought were their allies.
 
2020-01-13 08:33:21 PM  
Common sense needs to be injected in.  I understand, any politician saying anything less than "off with their heads!" is vulnerable next election, but still.

Sending people back to prison when they haven't broken any laws, aka technical violations, is farking stupid.  Especially when you figure hey, PO feels overworked?  Send a schlub or three back to prison, nobody cares.  Honestly, the rules are so strict every damned one of them can be violated at any time.

Some 10 years ago a boyfriend of a friend got sent back to prison (yeah, I have to call out boy here.  Guessing girl would have had a completely different result).  His crime?  He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere.  He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I only met the guy once, he was in his 40s, dunno why he went to prison for in the first place but I got involved enough to know that yeah, visiting the meat counter of his local megamart got him sent back to prison.

This is beyond stupid.
 
2020-01-13 08:42:29 PM  
Headline: "Florida...gets something right?"

Give it time, subby...give it time.
 
2020-01-13 08:43:39 PM  
If they do it, I'll forget about Floridaman.
 
2020-01-13 08:53:45 PM  

Snotnose: Common sense needs to be injected in.  I understand, any politician saying anything less than "off with their heads!" is vulnerable next election, but still.

Sending people back to prison when they haven't broken any laws, aka technical violations, is farking stupid.  Especially when you figure hey, PO feels overworked?  Send a schlub or three back to prison, nobody cares.  Honestly, the rules are so strict every damned one of them can be violated at any time.

Some 10 years ago a boyfriend of a friend got sent back to prison (yeah, I have to call out boy here.  Guessing girl would have had a completely different result).  His crime?  He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere.  He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I only met the guy once, he was in his 40s, dunno why he went to prison for in the first place but I got involved enough to know that yeah, visiting the meat counter of his local megamart got him sent back to prison.

This is beyond stupid.


The problem is that "common sense" means "officials get to do whatever they want".

Rich white people will have common sense mean that they never get punished for everything.  Poor black people will find something quite different.  We see all this all the time when judges get a lot of power in cases - that rich white kid who raped somebody will always get no time because the judge doesn't want to ruin his life.  But the black guy can burn in hell.

Enforcing things based on how some government official feels will always increase the bias in the process.  Always.
 
2020-01-13 08:55:03 PM  
Unfortunately the data is coloring books.
 
2020-01-13 09:16:36 PM  
As a fix, ban private defense attorneys and pay public defenders more than prosecutors (not a lot, but enough for it to be desirable).  Part of the ban would be to gag private attorneys from speaking in court, and making them trial support only, outside of the courtroom.
This will have the effect of recruiting and retaining good defense attorneys.  The top supporting trial attorneys will have to train and teach the public defender their art, making them better at their jobs even for clients who don't have the support staff.

Of course this is the opposite of what our elected officials are doing, which is expanding the for profit justice system which now includes concentration camps and "arbitration" for labor disputes where plaintiffs can't file suit because the cost is 50x the claimed amount.
 
2020-01-13 09:44:57 PM  
The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.
 
2020-01-13 09:47:38 PM  

Krazikarl: Snotnose: Common sense needs to be injected in.  I understand, any politician saying anything less than "off with their heads!" is vulnerable next election, but still.

Sending people back to prison when they haven't broken any laws, aka technical violations, is farking stupid.  Especially when you figure hey, PO feels overworked?  Send a schlub or three back to prison, nobody cares.  Honestly, the rules are so strict every damned one of them can be violated at any time.

Some 10 years ago a boyfriend of a friend got sent back to prison (yeah, I have to call out boy here.  Guessing girl would have had a completely different result).  His crime?  He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere.  He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I only met the guy once, he was in his 40s, dunno why he went to prison for in the first place but I got involved enough to know that yeah, visiting the meat counter of his local megamart got him sent back to prison.

This is beyond stupid.

The problem is that "common sense" means "officials get to do whatever they want".

Rich white people will have common sense mean that they never get punished for everything.  Poor black people will find something quite different.  We see all this all the time when judges get a lot of power in cases - that rich white kid who raped somebody will always get no time because the judge doesn't want to ruin his life.  But the black guy can burn in hell.

Enforcing things based on how some government official feels will always increase the bias in the process.  Always.


and you know what really  makes me angry? Is that the men and women that get caught up in the system and are minorities and take those psychological tests. Well if they mark the godamn farking truth for THEM .....that the dice is loaded against them, that things are unfair, that the "man" is unfair...all FACTs...well they are labeled with bullshiat diagnoseses based on white rich people's experiences and education and opinions.

I farking hate it when science is abused. Especially the "social" sciences that no one thinks are important but are.
 
2020-01-13 10:07:11 PM  

Krazikarl: The problem is that "common sense" means "officials get to do whatever they want".


If you read my comment, officials doing what they want is the problem.  What a job!  Feel overworked because you have too many "clients" to look over?  Sent a few back to prison.  Why not, nobody cares, they're all scumbags anyway and hey, just look at this rule nobody can follow but hey!  He broke it so off he goes.  And gee, now you have that much less work to do.  Win win, amirite?

/ used to be a "lock 'em up, three strikes for the win!" kinda guy
// then 12-13 years ago I met a guy that got sucked into the meat grinder
/// did a 180 on my views
 
2020-01-13 10:10:11 PM  

Snotnose: His crime? He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere. He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.


I bet there's more to that story. He was probably wearing a GPS enabled ankle monitor that automatically notified his PO if he got within the specified range of wherever he was prohibited from being, likely his victim's house. If being within that range was the difference between freedom and going back to prison, he should have been acutely aware of where he was at every moment.
 
2020-01-13 10:12:56 PM  

Kirablue42: The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.


That sounds good, but how do you ensure that a person will appear in court other than keeping them in custody?
 
2020-01-13 10:30:53 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Kirablue42: The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.

That sounds good, but how do you ensure that a person will appear in court other than keeping them in custody?


Fark user imageView Full Size


Is the method most places who abolish bail end up using. Algorithms based on flight risk, end up being discriminatory.

/dont like the bail system
//dont have a better idea
///slashies incarcerated for failure to appear.
 
2020-01-13 11:07:26 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Snotnose: His crime? He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere. He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I bet there's more to that story. He was probably wearing a GPS enabled ankle monitor that automatically notified his PO if he got within the specified range of wherever he was prohibited from being, likely his victim's house. If being within that range was the difference between freedom and going back to prison, he should have been acutely aware of where he was at every moment.


Or it was a simple case of trespassing. I'm in Florida-bail for that offense is usually 25 dollars (or 2.50 down). Essentially everyone with simple trespassing gets adjudicated and released once you see the magistrate (at least in Broward County). With court costs of course.

I'm talking about trespassing at a place someone, say, shoplifted from. Not farking breaking and entry.
 
2020-01-13 11:08:17 PM  

CruiserTwelve: Kirablue42: The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.

That sounds good, but how do you ensure that a person will appear in court other than keeping them in custody?


Um...a warrant? Which would stack with any conviction and be a deterrence?
 
2020-01-14 01:06:21 AM  

Kirablue42: The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.


CruiserTwelve: Kirablue42: The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.

That sounds good, but how do you ensure that a person will appear in court other than keeping them in custody?


CA is trying this.
 
2020-01-14 01:12:48 AM  

CruiserTwelve: He was probably wearing a GPS enabled ankle monitor that automatically notified his PO if he got within the specified range of wherever he was prohibited from being


He was, that's what got him busted.  I think what got him violated was being too close to a home pre-school.  In other words, no playground, no church steeple.  Just another house.  The guy went with my friend to buy some food and ended up in prison.

I don't really know the whole story, I got it all second hand.

Dunno about you, but I sure feel a lot safer.
 
2020-01-14 01:34:15 AM  

CruiserTwelve: Snotnose: His crime? He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere. He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I bet there's more to that story. He was probably wearing a GPS enabled ankle monitor that automatically notified his PO if he got within the specified range of wherever he was prohibited from being, likely his victim's house. If being within that range was the difference between freedom and going back to prison, he should have been acutely aware of where he was at every moment.


You are likely right about the circumstances but is it realistic to expect your average person (to say nothing of your average criminal) to be mentally aware enough to do this?  Perhaps if the ranges were mapped out for them -- or perhaps if the ranges were a bit more reasonable in some cases -- this would be plausible but I think that an expectation of knowledge of the exact distance limits for any restriction over ~100' is not a reasonable one.
 
2020-01-14 02:13:12 AM  

Daer21: CruiserTwelve: Kirablue42: The best thing to would be to end the bail system, but states that have tried it come up against the companies that run them and any system put in place that makes it unecessary that is successful will invariably have the funding cut. The bail system is just feudalism writ large. The entire jail/prison system is, for that matter.

That sounds good, but how do you ensure that a person will appear in court other than keeping them in custody?

[Fark user image image 425x239]

Is the method most places who abolish bail end up using. Algorithms based on flight risk, end up being discriminatory.

/dont like the bail system
//dont have a better idea
///slashies incarcerated for failure to appear.


one of the alternative bail system ideas I've heard tossed around was "Income-based bail".  This way almost everyone has equal opportunity for bail, and the rich have more of an incentive to show up.  I think one of ideas was using a percentage based on flight risk, severeity of the crime, etc.
 
2020-01-14 02:48:02 AM  

Spermbot: CA is trying this.


That sounds like a workable system. It'll be interesting to see how it works out.
 
2020-01-14 06:50:49 AM  
Florida is full of a lot of crazy, but at a state level we do tend to be early or at least middling adopters of newer technology. Crazy State was one of the earlier to try and put everything online (various services such as tag renewal, Sunbiz.org, etc) and even back in the 2000s you could go into pretty much any DMV and get your new license printed on the spot. Washington (and presumably others?) are still giving out temp pages and then mailing it to you in a week or so. Lame.

The Captain's Ghost: CruiserTwelve: Snotnose: His crime? He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere. He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I bet there's more to that story. He was probably wearing a GPS enabled ankle monitor that automatically notified his PO if he got within the specified range of wherever he was prohibited from being, likely his victim's house. If being within that range was the difference between freedom and going back to prison, he should have been acutely aware of where he was at every moment.

You are likely right about the circumstances but is it realistic to expect your average person (to say nothing of your average criminal) to be mentally aware enough to do this?  Perhaps if the ranges were mapped out for them -- or perhaps if the ranges were a bit more reasonable in some cases -- this would be plausible but I think that an expectation of knowledge of the exact distance limits for any restriction over ~100' is not a reasonable one.


It is unreasonable and it's notoriously strict...anyone who has been locked up or knows anyone who has been has heard the stories. They should have told him when he was fitted for the GPS tracker.

There should be a better automated system for determining whether routes are going to violate...and there may be. Nevertheless, if the choice was between "Wear this ankle thing and stay home" or "go to jail", I'd stay the fark home and live with the restrictions. Food can be bought in bulk quantities and delivered.
 
2020-01-14 08:23:36 AM  

Snotnose: Common sense needs to be injected in.  I understand, any politician saying anything less than "off with their heads!" is vulnerable next election, but still.

Sending people back to prison when they haven't broken any laws, aka technical violations, is farking stupid.  Especially when you figure hey, PO feels overworked?  Send a schlub or three back to prison, nobody cares.  Honestly, the rules are so strict every damned one of them can be violated at any time.

Some 10 years ago a boyfriend of a friend got sent back to prison (yeah, I have to call out boy here.  Guessing girl would have had a completely different result).  His crime?  He was supposed to stay, I dunno, 100, 1,000? yards from somewhere.  He went into a grocery store, bought groceries, and it turned out when he was in the back of the store he violated that range.

I only met the guy once, he was in his 40s, dunno why he went to prison for in the first place but I got involved enough to know that yeah, visiting the meat counter of his local megamart got him sent back to prison.

This is beyond stupid.


You got involved enough to know the GPS violation was what got him sent back, but not enough to know what the original crime was?  Sounds familiar.

I once worked with a guy, decent fella, son of my boss's friend; story was that he was on work release for coming to a woman's defense when her bf was beating her senseless. The victim changed her story to curry favor with the abuser, and this poor guy ended up doing time.  I went to speak on his behalf at a sentence reduction hearing, as he was a good worker, always on time, etc.  Found out that he was wearing the ankle bracelet when he worked construction, he'd been caught stealing, and when he was let go, went to the foreman's house, kicked in his door, and beaten the foreman and his girlfriend. 

The U.S. Criminal Justice system in a shiat show, but a hell of a lot of people who've done time will tell you a backstory just like Nicolas Cage in Con Air.
 
2020-01-14 08:52:35 AM  
In Florida, I'm guessing the data will show the state is full of criminals and they should make the state a big prison
 
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