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(Washington Post)   Is that hope? Don't you dare let me hope   (washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, United States House of Representatives, United States Senate, President of the United States, Richard Nixon, Impeachment, President Trump, GOP senators, United States Congress  
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4838 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2019 at 6:39 AM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-10-12 02:39:18 AM  
a persistent pattern of inherent unfitness

That shiat right there should be carved into Trump's headstone when he eventually meets sheds his mortal coil.
 
2019-10-12 03:07:23 AM  
The betrayal of the Kurds has changed things.
Rising evidence of an attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine may finish him.
 
2019-10-12 03:20:51 AM  
i1.wp.comView Full Size
 
2019-10-12 04:15:25 AM  
...former senator Jeff Flake last month candidly assessed that 35 of his former GOP colleagues would vote to remove Trump from office if the poll were taken in private...

Therein lies the rub.  A vote to remove Trump would be very, very public.  I don't think Republicans have the testicular fortitude to grow a spine and vote against Trump.  Even selling out the Kurds isn't going to get Republicans to vote against Trump and upset the base.

Forty years of RINO purging has distilled the GOP to the 30+ percent of rabid Trump supporters.  No Republican who wishes to remain in office will run afoul of the base.  They can say all they want in private, but they will not cross Trump in public.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2019-10-12 04:34:55 AM  
There would have to be 20 Republicans with enough integrity to face losing their seats in order to do the right thing.  You aren't going to find that in the Senate.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will damage Trump enough that he loses the next election.  That's about the best we can hope for.
 
2019-10-12 06:42:57 AM  
Cheer up, Clint.
 
2019-10-12 06:42:58 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-10-12 06:49:12 AM  
Hope, like cynicism, is a kind of prediction.
I don't feel there is any longer any solid basis for making predictions about the future course of our society.
This future is impenetrable to me - and those who I hear making confident predictions all sound to me as if they are most spectacularly full of shiat.
 
2019-10-12 06:49:14 AM  

vpb: There would have to be 20 Republicans with enough integrity to face losing their seats in order to do the right thing.  You aren't going to find that in the Senate.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will damage Trump enough that he loses the next election.  That's about the best we can hope for.


The best we can realistically hope for, perhaps.

The best we can hope for is that Trump, through some bizarre accident, achieves both immortality and a crippling, incurable cancer that renders him completely paralyzed and in constant pain.
 
2019-10-12 06:49:31 AM  
Well, this is certainly mathematically true since my belief is that there is exactly a 0% chance they will ever vote to convict and I suppose there's a non zero probability that every Trump party member might be abducted by aliens and have their brain reprogrammed like Steve Dallas
 
2019-10-12 06:51:31 AM  

vpb: There would have to be 20 Republicans with enough integrity to face losing their seats in order to do the right thing.  You aren't going to find that in the Senate.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will damage Trump enough that he loses the next election.  That's about the best we can hope for.


Donnie is attacking Republican senators who don't approve of his actions.. AND the ones that aren't saying anything one way or the other.  That can reach 20 pretty quickly, and even the ones defending him now must be getting a bit tired of looking completely ridiculous in public.
 
2019-10-12 06:53:01 AM  
Did McConnell die and I missed it?
 
2019-10-12 06:53:03 AM  
Hope? Yeah sure
giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.comView Full Size
 
2019-10-12 06:54:09 AM  
Jeff Flake could have done much better as a current senator who protested. He chose not that role. In the poet's words "screw you."

His words are not wrong. Do not let his ambivalence be lost upon you.

In public service we serve, but doubt and shame color this gratitude in ways you wouldn't believe. Shocked though any one person may be, that old machine does chug along.

I'd like to think any one of us does well. I think we do in fact. I'm just a little bit disappointed in Jeff. He seemed like a nice boy.
 
2019-10-12 06:54:11 AM  
Alexander, Enzi and Roberts are retiring. They have no reason for fealty to the slob in chief. So that's 17.
 
2019-10-12 06:54:19 AM  
Depends on how much he's pissing off people with REAL money...and he KEEPS trying to throw folks with history in Washington under the bus, and he's not making any more friends. If you keep shrinking the list of your allies, and not making any more, and you keep stepping on the toes of the folks you have on your side, it's not hard to imagine folks turning.
 
2019-10-12 06:59:15 AM  
We'll Trump turned on Fox, so they could start pulling back from him. They only started to cuddle up to him in the primaries when he started to win.
 
2019-10-12 07:01:12 AM  
I'm going to be extra suspicious of these kinds of predictions from the media that was sure Trump would pivot and become presidential soon. They have BSAB'd themselves into being credible mush heads.
 
2019-10-12 07:01:34 AM  

Catlenfell: Did McConnell die and I missed it?


Senate trial mandate is a little different than "Oh, that House bill. I'm sure it's here on my desk somewhere." Any shenanigans from McConnell in a Senate trial will see the Chief Justice take him to the woodshed.
 
2019-10-12 07:07:37 AM  
If the Senate trial is held after the primaries are behind them they might fear the public more than the president.
 
2019-10-12 07:12:02 AM  
"Historically . . ."

Yeah, I wouldn't put too much hope in precedent. The Senate has ignored and enabled so much of Trump's shiat that it defies belief.
 
2019-10-12 07:13:07 AM  
It all depends on Moscow Mitch, and his personal power; if he makes the calculation that he is more likely to stay on as Senate Majority leader, that is the Rs hold the Senate, without Trump than with him, than Trump is gone.
 
2019-10-12 07:15:33 AM  
When Franklin said words to the effect "If we don't hang together, we will all hang separately", it was the literal truth. This crowd CAN'T give up power. Ever. They're dead or life in prison the moment they're vulnerable. I don't think this is going to play out in any constitutionally approved manner. Simplest would be the Secret Service turning, but I'm afraid it will come down to the loyalties of the military.

Imagine the scenario: DT is impeached and convicted in the Senate, and pardoned by Pence. Does he
a) say, well, I guess that's it, and retire to Mar-a-Lago, to the waiting arms of a dozen State Prosecutors or
b) does he claim that this an illegal action of the Deep State, dissolves Congress, and declares martial law?
 
2019-10-12 07:19:30 AM  
It's so good! When it hits your lips, it's so good!
 
2019-10-12 07:20:57 AM  

wademh: The betrayal of the Kurds has changed things.
Rising evidence of an attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine may finish him.


This is the Warm Take of the Week but I'm not sure it's true.

The GOP have been looking for a reason to abandon Trump but if this were it they'd have jumped completely when the bombs started falling.  Instead they're still hanging on to "let's wait and see" positions.  Those cracks in the armor don't appear unless DT is exposed for his dealings in Ukraine, and unless the House mounts up and actually launches the impeachment.

So it's possible the reverse is true.  Republicans may have found ways to defend Trump's actions in Syria, just like they have EVERY OTHER DUMB THING HE'S DONE, if not for the fact that the impeachment is ongoing and people are coming forward in greater numbers to testify.

This is why we said IMPEACH NOW instead of waiting for the Senate to magically transform.  The snowball effect from pulling threads invokes all sorts of metaphors.
 
2019-10-12 07:22:14 AM  

wademh: The betrayal of the Kurds has changed things.
Rising evidence of an attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine may finish him.


How about leaving a company of Americans out there to get shelled?  Think that might up the ante?

Also, I feel absolutely filthy at Kurdish blood somehow raising my optimism.  What the hell do you do with that?
 
2019-10-12 07:25:13 AM  
Until you de-nazificate the entire Republican party and a little less than 50% of your country. Nope.. no hope. Will all be a repeat in 10 years when the Americans forget any of this happened.
 
2019-10-12 07:26:37 AM  

Catlenfell: Did McConnell die and I missed it?


McConnell is already dead. The problem is, nobody can find his phylactery, and without that, we cannot permanently end his undeath.
 
2019-10-12 07:43:01 AM  

Dickbong: Until you de-nazificate the entire Republican party and a little less than 50% of your country. Nope.. no hope. Will all be a repeat in 10 years when the Americans forget any of this happened.


Or at the bare least a re-education program of some kind. The brainwashing is real and until you "fix" these people. You will never grow out of this. And that is just one of the many things that will continue to destroy the US and their credibility.
 
2019-10-12 07:45:11 AM  

Captain Scratch: When Franklin said words to the effect "If we don't hang together, we will all hang separately", it was the literal truth. This crowd CAN'T give up power. Ever. They're dead or life in prison the moment they're vulnerable. I don't think this is going to play out in any constitutionally approved manner. Simplest would be the Secret Service turning, but I'm afraid it will come down to the loyalties of the military.

Imagine the scenario: DT is impeached and convicted in the Senate, and pardoned by Pence. Does he
a) say, well, I guess that's it, and retire to Mar-a-Lago, to the waiting arms of a dozen State Prosecutors or
b) does he claim that this an illegal action of the Deep State, dissolves Congress, and declares martial law?


Find me in the Constitution where any of that is stated. It's not there. Once removed from office, he is removed from office. All a pardon does is save him from being prosecuted from federal crimes.

Now of Pence goes off an actually pardons him, and/or goes off and declares martial law, those are both impeachable offenses. One is obstruction of justice. The other is abuse of power.

But it may be a little early for coffee in your part of the world, is it not Comrade?
 
2019-10-12 07:54:49 AM  
Is that Hope?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-10-12 08:01:21 AM  

lordjupiter: wademh: The betrayal of the Kurds has changed things.
Rising evidence of an attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine may finish him.

This is the Warm Take of the Week but I'm not sure it's true.

The GOP have been looking for a reason to abandon Trump but if this were it they'd have jumped completely when the bombs started falling.  Instead they're still hanging on to "let's wait and see" positions.  Those cracks in the armor don't appear unless DT is exposed for his dealings in Ukraine, and unless the House mounts up and actually launches the impeachment.

So it's possible the reverse is true.  Republicans may have found ways to defend Trump's actions in Syria, just like they have EVERY OTHER DUMB THING HE'S DONE, if not for the fact that the impeachment is ongoing and people are coming forward in greater numbers to testify.

This is why we said IMPEACH NOW instead of waiting for the Senate to magically transform.  The snowball effect from pulling threads invokes all sorts of metaphors.


If the House votes to impeach and all Democrats and Independents vote for impeachment, there only really needs to be 16 Republicans to vote for it to seal the deal. Assuming they're not planning on hanging around, have moderate constituents or just don't give a fark, it might not be that unrealistic. This is pretty much the GOP's only chance to get rid of Donald Trump. Otherwise they might be stuck with him for another term and that's pretty scary.

Of course he'll still be making the rounds on talk shows and become a regular on Alex Jones...he'll probably say the whole thing was "rigged" and try to rouse a rabble. He'll have his stupid rallies until his dying day and always use the Presidential seal. When he's out of office, he'll completely go batshiat crazy and say everything he wants about anyone he doesn't like. On his way out, he'll steal anything that's not nailed down.

But he'll kind of slowly dwindle into obscurity and we'll kind of be done with him. Unfortunately we won't be done with the lobotomy patients who supported him in the first place.
 
2019-10-12 08:02:42 AM  

fragMasterFlash: a persistent pattern of inherent unfitness

That shiat right there should be carved into Trump's headstone when he eventually meets sheds his mortal coil.


"The President's new at this. He's new to government. So, he probably wasn't steeped in the long-running protocols that establish the relationships between DOJ, FBI and White Houses. He's just new to this."
-- Paul Ryan, two years ago, excusing Trump's all-encompassing ignorance, but failing to address his refusal to listen to the experts

Wonder what his excuse would be today.
 
2019-10-12 08:05:23 AM  

apocryphaandmyth: wademh: Also, I feel absolutely filthy at Kurdish blood somehow raising my optimism.  What the hell do you do with that?


Throw it on the White House lawn.
 
2019-10-12 08:07:11 AM  
Hope left a long time ago, man.  She left with Dave.
 
2019-10-12 08:13:32 AM  

Dickbong: Dickbong: Until you de-nazificate the entire Republican party and a little less than 50% of your country. Nope.. no hope. Will all be a repeat in 10 years when the Americans forget any of this happened.

Or at the bare least a re-education program of some kind. The brainwashing is real and until you "fix" these people. You will never grow out of this. And that is just one of the many things that will continue to destroy the US and their credibility.


Won't happen either way.  Although the most attention starved buttheads are being identified or self identifying with their attendance at rallies, there are multitudes quietly nodding their heads.  They don't put bumper stickers on their cars, they just vote for white men first, white women second, and move away when their voting options are no longer either of the previous two.  Sitting at the neighborhood pool this year and listening to people lament the vicious attacks on our president, while remembering the comments from the same people in 2007-2016 about the state of our country, has been quite revealing.  People that 10 years ago would be up in arms over tax cuts for anyone are ok with soaring deficits now, and that's just one example.

Once the pictures of average Kurds mourning their dead start popping up, it will only get worse, because Kurds aren't routinely blue eyed blondes.  The pastiest, deliberately trying to turn their skin leathery brown, people will be the ones least offended by already brown people suffering.

With two Senate seats suddenly on the line, my mailbox is already starting to fill up with junk.  It references not letting House harlots like AOC and Pelosi run our country, while completely devoid of anything that might be policy or initiative or character.

Forget hope, start thinking French Resistance to Vichy.  Putin and Xi are having a blast and we're the entertainment.
 
2019-10-12 08:15:50 AM  
You know what hope is?
Hope is a bastard
Hope is a liar, a cheat and a tease
Hope comes near you - kick its backside
Got no place in days like these



Picture Window
Youtube QhG3A7PnpZc
 
2019-10-12 08:16:10 AM  
counterpoint: nothing is normal anymore and law, convention, tradition and "rules" are meaningless. kind of like how General Relativity slowly breaks down and produces unexpected results in the world of the very small.

therefore, arguments from history, precedent, and prior experience are moat in this timeline. we have long since passed "unprecedented" and should be shocked by no development, however positive or negative it ends up being for "our side"
 
2019-10-12 08:18:47 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: vpb: There would have to be 20 Republicans with enough integrity to face losing their seats in order to do the right thing.  You aren't going to find that in the Senate.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will damage Trump enough that he loses the next election.  That's about the best we can hope for.

The best we can realistically hope for, perhaps.

The best we can hope for is that Trump, through some bizarre accident, achieves both immortality and a crippling, incurable cancer that renders him completely paralyzed and in constant pain.


Send him to Elantris?
 
2019-10-12 08:26:55 AM  

vpb: There would have to be 20 Republicans with enough integrity to face losing their seats in order to do the right thing.  You aren't going to find that in the Senate.

Hopefully, impeachment hearings will damage Trump enough that he loses the next election.  That's about the best we can hope for.


This.

It's fun to fantasize, but let's not let the attractiveness of our dreams distract us from what experience has taught us.  Again and again and again.

The Republican Party has been galvanized and weaponized against the US to great effect.

Whatever particular wall those Senators feel their back is up against-kompromat or a propaganda-hysterical base, or both-they aren't budging.

Alea iacta est.
 
2019-10-12 08:29:18 AM  

lordjupiter: wademh: The betrayal of the Kurds has changed things.
Rising evidence of an attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine may finish him.

This is the Warm Take of the Week but I'm not sure it's true.

The GOP have been looking for a reason to abandon Trump but if this were it they'd have jumped completely when the bombs started falling.  Instead they're still hanging on to "let's wait and see" positions.  Those cracks in the armor don't appear unless DT is exposed for his dealings in Ukraine, and unless the House mounts up and actually launches the impeachment.

So it's possible the reverse is true.  Republicans may have found ways to defend Trump's actions in Syria, just like they have EVERY OTHER DUMB THING HE'S DONE, if not for the fact that the impeachment is ongoing and people are coming forward in greater numbers to testify.

This is why we said IMPEACH NOW instead of waiting for the Senate to magically transform.  The snowball effect from pulling threads invokes all sorts of metaphors.


You're not going to see many in the GOP flip on an event unless we can get all the proper dramatic theme music to make it a hot smoking gun. Grassley did a mini-flip on Trump's attacks on whistleblowers because that's been a big issue for him for a long time.

Instead, you've got a whole bunch of people looking around at each other trying to figure out who else is willing to admit that the Emperor's New Clothes are see through and that he has a little dick. They are fundamentally cowards who have been hiding behind solidarity. Now they are cowards who are also afraid of being one of the last ones to abandon Trump.

Further, they are trying to figure out what is going to happen afterwards because there's really nobody who is an heir apparent.
 
2019-10-12 08:29:36 AM  

khatores: lordjupiter: wademh: The betrayal of the Kurds has changed things.
Rising evidence of an attempted quid pro quo with Ukraine may finish him.

This is the Warm Take of the Week but I'm not sure it's true.

The GOP have been looking for a reason to abandon Trump but if this were it they'd have jumped completely when the bombs started falling.  Instead they're still hanging on to "let's wait and see" positions.  Those cracks in the armor don't appear unless DT is exposed for his dealings in Ukraine, and unless the House mounts up and actually launches the impeachment.

So it's possible the reverse is true.  Republicans may have found ways to defend Trump's actions in Syria, just like they have EVERY OTHER DUMB THING HE'S DONE, if not for the fact that the impeachment is ongoing and people are coming forward in greater numbers to testify.

This is why we said IMPEACH NOW instead of waiting for the Senate to magically transform.  The snowball effect from pulling threads invokes all sorts of metaphors.

If the House votes to impeach and all Democrats and Independents vote for impeachment, there only really needs to be 16 Republicans to vote for it to seal the deal. Assuming they're not planning on hanging around, have moderate constituents or just don't give a fark, it might not be that unrealistic. This is pretty much the GOP's only chance to get rid of Donald Trump. Otherwise they might be stuck with him for another term and that's pretty scary.

Of course he'll still be making the rounds on talk shows and become a regular on Alex Jones...he'll probably say the whole thing was "rigged" and try to rouse a rabble. He'll have his stupid rallies until his dying day and always use the Presidential seal. When he's out of office, he'll completely go batshiat crazy and say everything he wants about anyone he doesn't like. On his way out, he'll steal anything that's not nailed down.

But he'll kind of slowly dwindle into obscurity and we'll kind of be done with him. Unfortunatel ...


maybe. but think about this; if he's gone, I hope the other x-presidents light into him unfiltered. you know they want to now, but understand how that would look. Carter came closest. He might be a loud bastard, but I think he loses a rhetorical battle to the combined forces of Obama, Bush, and Clinton. who will, by speaking out, give permission to those who either refrained from speaking out of respect for those guys or who softened their language for similar reasons.

If they actually co-ordinate they can nullify whatever he says. There were no living x-presidents when nixon left office. i wonder what johnson and hoover and eisenhower would have had to say publicly (they died during nixon's term, so it was at least possible they could be alive a couple years longer to accommodate a thought experiment). i think they would have spoken out once he was out of office, when it could not be interpreted as partisan from a guy who is never facing an election again. and he would not have "rehabilitated his legacy" because they would have sidelined him for life.

there is a reason former presidents don't fight back too hard, because they understand the need to not be scrutinized in public by one of the 5 (average lately) living people who held the job. in some ways, they are the only ones entitled to criticize, and their criticism would carry much weight. and they don't because they also understand how that makes the US less safe and provides a distraction that isn't needed.
 
2019-10-12 08:30:23 AM  
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2019-10-12 08:40:30 AM  

Seabon: It all depends on Moscow Mitch, and his personal power; if he makes the calculation that he is more likely to stay on as Senate Majority leader, that is the Rs hold the Senate, without Trump than with him, than Trump is gone.


Trump is their useful idiot until he's no longer useful. The only reason McConnell hasn't dumped him yet is that there is a chance RBG may die before the end of 2020. In that case you would see the GOP try to rush through another Supreme Court pick using the exact opposite argument they used against Merrick Garland. Mitch would not only be aware of the hypocrisy, he would enjoy the fact that that he could get away with it.
 
2019-10-12 08:42:30 AM  
What are the Republicans options for the election if they were to vote to oust him?

I'm pretty sure they don't believe they can win 2020 with Pence.

We need to get to a point where they believe Trump is so toxic they have a better chance ousting Trump and running another candidate.

We need more, more whistleblowers, more testimony...........

I hope we can get that.
I hope to see Trump convicted in the Senate
I hope he is then convicted by the SDNY
I hope he goes to jail without a cell phone.
I hope he achieves complete enlightenment and sees how stupid he is
I hope...........
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-10-12 08:43:52 AM  
Possibly stupid Question, but thought I had: if NY courts and leadership decided, they could theoretically enact eminent domain on his NY properties, right? Just take Trump tower from him, tear it down and sell the land again right?
 
2019-10-12 08:52:06 AM  
Pence is predictable.

Sell enough GOP senators on the idea that they can keep the parts they like (the economy, stupid) and ditch the batshiat parts, and Trump goes under the bus.

The 2020 campaign then becomes the party that got rid of their creep versus the party that circled the wagons around their creep. And his wife.
 
2019-10-12 08:53:42 AM  

NeuroticRocker: Possibly stupid Question, but thought I had: if NY courts and leadership decided, they could theoretically enact eminent domain on his NY properties, right? Just take Trump tower from him, tear it down and sell the land again right?


Not really.

https://eminentdomain.uslegal.com/sta​t​e-laws-on-eminent-domain/new-york/
 
2019-10-12 08:59:49 AM  

tkgeisha: What are the Republicans options for the election if they were to vote to oust him?

I'm pretty sure they don't believe they can win 2020 with Pence.

We need to get to a point where they believe Trump is so toxic they have a better chance ousting Trump and running another candidate.

We need more, more whistleblowers, more testimony...........

I hope we can get that.
I hope to see Trump convicted in the Senate
I hope he is then convicted by the SDNY
I hope he goes to jail without a cell phone.
I hope he achieves complete enlightenment and sees how stupid he is
I hope...........
[Fark user image image 605x415]


I truly wish there were some way to make him feel the impact of what he's doing to people. To break through his narcissism and sociopathy and really make him have a full understanding of how horrible he is.
 
2019-10-12 09:00:36 AM  
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