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(The Drive)   Chinese Navy accused of stealing U.S. Navy operational tactics   (thedrive.com) divider line
    More: News, Republic of China, People's Republic of China, Taiwan, Political status of Taiwan, South China Sea, Standard Mandarin, unidentified Chinese naval ship, Qing Dynasty  
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6645 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 02 Aug 2019 at 6:29 AM (43 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2019-08-02 6:37:58 AM  
They started removing Taiwanese and Japanese flag patches from their jackets?

/DNRTFA
 
2019-08-02 6:41:06 AM  
Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.
 
2019-08-02 6:58:39 AM  

Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.


China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?
 
2019-08-02 6:59:22 AM  
The Chinese government would be offended by this article. It should read that a Chinese naval vessel crashed into a Chinese cargo ship in the China Strait.
 
2019-08-02 7:07:25 AM  
Playing bumper boats.
 
2019-08-02 7:07:50 AM  

Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.


The fact that they are pulling pansy-assed maneuvers instead of actual open warfare says far, far more about where they view their tactical and strategic standing.

Lest we forget the the last time Russian forces tried to tangle with US forces
 
2019-08-02 7:23:11 AM  
A+ headline, subby.
 
2019-08-02 7:24:24 AM  
Crashing?
 
2019-08-02 7:26:51 AM  
....

Oh except this is an enemy ship, so yeah, not nearly as cool as US Navy style.

Expect Chinese [redundant] Taipei to be the normal next year.
 
2019-08-02 7:43:03 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

The fact that they are pulling pansy-assed maneuvers instead of actual open warfare says far, far more about where they view their tactical and strategic standing.

Lest we forget the the last time Russian forces tried to tangle with US forces


This has been a fact at least since the 80s...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-08-02 8:08:10 AM  
At least someone is reading the manuals.
 
2019-08-02 8:11:55 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-08-02 8:14:21 AM  

Shaggy_C: The Chinese government would be offended by this article. It should read that a Chinese naval vessel crashed into a Chinese cargo ship in the China Strait.


Like how our super nimble EP-3 chased down and collided with a Chinese fighter jet?
 
2019-08-02 8:18:42 AM  
I just ate Chinese last night, so I'm getting a kick.

/was horny again an hour later.
//girlfriend found oout so she currantttly kkicning me.
 
2019-08-02 8:26:36 AM  
no they stole their operational Tictacs. its a misprint.
 
2019-08-02 8:32:06 AM  

dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?


Or the entire period from 1922-1989.
 
2019-08-02 8:33:57 AM  

dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?


Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.
 
2019-08-02 8:58:20 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.


"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"
 
2019-08-02 8:58:31 AM  
This needs to be translated into Chinese:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-08-02 9:00:49 AM  
The People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) ship "requested [Yutai Number One] to go to Xiamen for investigation

The point of this whole charade.
They were probably ordered to ram the ship to create probably cause to detain the ship for an 'investigation' at a chinese port.  During which something 'suspicious' will be found.  Maybe a container of supplies for the Hong Kong rebels being shipped from Taiwan or something equally stupid and obviously planted.  Upon which whole new rounds of propaganda and political maneuvering would be based.
 
2019-08-02 9:01:55 AM  
probable cause.  damn you autocorrect
 
2019-08-02 9:06:43 AM  
What's "This is a lighthouse. Your call." in Chinese?
 
2019-08-02 9:07:05 AM  

Deep Contact: Playing bumper boats.


Is that a Jaws 3-D reference?
 
2019-08-02 9:08:42 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"


you couldnt even land a marine battalion on most of those islands.  the last dozen guys off the boat would practically be shoving people into the ocean off the other side.  one bomber full of 2000 pounders would put them underwater again probably.  they exist solely as 'land' markers on a map to fark with how international boundaries are drawn.  in a war they are either already useless or would become useless on day 1.
 
2019-08-02 9:16:14 AM  
They shot down an airliner and then the propeller fell off?

/dnrtfa
 
2019-08-02 9:48:28 AM  

oopsboom: Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"

you couldnt even land a marine battalion on most of those islands.  the last dozen guys off the boat would practically be shoving people into the ocean off the other side.  one bomber full of 2000 pounders would put them underwater again probably.  they exist solely as 'land' markers on a map to fark with how international boundaries are drawn. in a war they are either already useless or would become useless on day 1.


its gerrymandering on an oceanic scale!
 
2019-08-02 9:51:56 AM  
What We Know About A Mysterious Collision Between A Chinese Warship And A Taiwanese Cargo Ship

They all got off the vessels and started running around them?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-08-02 9:55:47 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"


Actually, that is brilliant.


You can sink an aircraft carrier.

You can't sink an island.

Yes, you can bomb the piss out of an island, but if your carrier aircraft are within range of the island, your aircraft carrier is within range of the aircraft and missiles based on that island.

A bomb through the deck of an aircraft carrier basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking weeks or months.

A bomb on an island airfield basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking minutes or hours.


The idea of building up a number of islands with airfields and missiles and bases for things like large numbers of relatively inexpensive but capable submarine hunting ships is a pretty damned good strategy for China.

The other thing to consider here is that you can't achieve surprise anymore with a lightning carrier strike anymore because of radar satellites..   No more Doolittle raids, no more Pearl Harbors.    You can't hide something as big as a carrier group from satellite radar.   China currently has 2 satellite radars aloft and is planning 9 more.

That would give them essentially full coverage of any area on the ocean every 1.5 hours, essentially.   How far can a ship move at 35 knots in an hour and a half?   Just a little over 52 nautical miles.

They'd see us coming a long way off.
 
2019-08-02 10:01:09 AM  
TheGreatGazoo:

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

Anything Made can be Unmade.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-08-02 10:08:57 AM  

dittybopper: You can't sink an island.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Can.

Just not easily.
 
2019-08-02 10:09:00 AM  
dittybopper:

You can't sink an island.

Would like a word:
Fark user imageView Full Size

/suddenly I see the brilliance of our climate policy
 
2019-08-02 10:09:41 AM  

MythDragon: Shaggy_C: The Chinese government would be offended by this article. It should read that a Chinese naval vessel crashed into a Chinese cargo ship in the China Strait.

Like how our super nimble EP-3 chased down and collided with a Chinese fighter jet?


Chinese Fighter collided with us. They were trying to pull a classic Soviet/Russian unsafe flying habit and the pilot got killed.
 
2019-08-02 10:20:22 AM  

Lifeless: What's "This is a lighthouse. Your call." in Chinese?


"This is a righthouse. Your car."
 
2019-08-02 10:25:30 AM  
pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2019-08-02 10:35:11 AM  

oopsboom: Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"

you couldnt even land a marine battalion on most of those islands.  the last dozen guys off the boat would practically be shoving people into the ocean off the other side.  one bomber full of 2000 pounders would put them underwater again probably.  they exist solely as 'land' markers on a map to fark with how international boundaries are drawn.  in a war they are either already useless or would become useless on day 1.


I disagree.

First, think about the logistics of landing there.   You've got to load up your Marines into assault ships and sail them all the way to the islands under the watchful eye of radar satellites, which means they'll see you coming from a long, long way.   Right now the PRC only has 2 radar satellites, but that's still roughly 4 to 6 good passes per satellite per day.

It's something like 6,700 miles from San Diego to the South China sea.   An LHA ship like the USS America, traveling at 20 knots, is going to take (whips out slide rule)...   just about 2 weeks to get to the operational area.

Meanwhile, the area is is just around 500 nautical miles from China.   They can fly in troops and munitions and supplies very quickly, maybe within 2 hours at most.   If they need to be really sneaky, it's a 2 or 3 day trip by submarine from Hainan island, and we'd have a real problem interdicting that.   The area is shallow and restricted and within easy access to PLAN and PLAAF ASW forces, so sending in our subs would be a very risky maneuver.

One other thing that few people consider is that it the area is full of choke points.   You essentially can't get to the area of the South China Sea without being spotted from land, or from an innocent looking "fishing boat" for those areas where the choke points are too wide.

You put a squad of guys with a radio at those choke points and you simply have them watch the choke point.   Maybe they're dressed up as tourists.   So they watch and if they see US ships traversing, they report it to Beijing.   You'll detect them immediately, of course, and maybe even be able to sort of locate them (but HF radio direction finding is never as accurate as people think it is).   But by the time you get there, they've left already and gone to ground or intermingled with the local population.

You can have a radio powerful enough to reliably communicate the 350 to 1,200 miles from the choke points to PRC territory along with a battery and everything else you need in a small backpack weighing perhaps 20 lbs.   You can string a directional wire antenna up in the trees, and if you need to bug out in a hurry, just leave it there.  It's not like the WWII days when Coastwatchers needed teams of men to haul hundreds of pounds worth of radio, batteries, generator, and fuel for the generator.

Same with the fishing boat.   In that case you'll probably be able to board or sink it, but not after it's already warned Beijing.   It's essentially expendable, as are the handful of crew.

You don't even have to have a very sophisticated encryption scheme.   The fact of your transmission gives the game away (a radio signal from 5 or 10 miles away while you're passing through a choke point is a no-brainer).   So you give them a relatively simple code printed on a single sheet of paper.
 
2019-08-02 10:43:35 AM  

dittybopper: Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"

Actually, that is brilliant.


You can sink an aircraft carrier.

You can't sink an island.

Yes, you can bomb the piss out of an island, but if your carrier aircraft are within range of the island, your aircraft carrier is within range of the aircraft and missiles based on that island.

A bomb through the deck of an aircraft carrier basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking weeks or months.

A bomb on an island airfield basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking minutes or hours.


The idea of building up a number of islands with airfields and missiles and bases for things like large numbers of relatively inexpensive but capable submarine hunting ships is a pretty damned good strategy for China.

The other thing to consider here is that you can't achieve surprise anymore with a lightning carrier strike anymore because of radar satellites..   No more Doolittle raids, no more Pearl Harbors.    You can't hide something as big as a carrier group from satellite radar.   China currently has 2 satellite radars aloft and is planning 9 more.

That would give them essentially full coverage of any area on the ocean every 1.5 hours, essentially.   How far can a ship move at 35 knots in an hour and a half?   Just a little over 52 nautical miles.

They'd see us coming a long way off.


why the hell do you think we would ever put our Navy at the tip of the spear, especially as a landing against Islands, considering that we could use standoff measures from the Navy, far more effectively.

That is absurdly stupid, even for fark.

Clearly we would airdrop the Marines

Its like you have never heard of the (Ch)Air Force
 
2019-08-02 10:53:11 AM  

dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?


Georgia shot first:

http://www.ft.com/content/830d20ec-adc​5-11de-bb8a-00144feabdc0
 
2019-08-02 11:16:35 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"


Oh, and they also are the world leader in guided munitions. Maybe we should encourage them to elect incompetent cowards to positions of responsibility.
 
2019-08-02 11:23:06 AM  

ColonelCathcart: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Georgia shot first:



Yeah, well, Roscoe P. Coltrane always was an asshole.
 
2019-08-02 11:25:23 AM  

HumanSVD: MythDragon: Shaggy_C: The Chinese government would be offended by this article. It should read that a Chinese naval vessel crashed into a Chinese cargo ship in the China Strait.

Like how our super nimble EP-3 chased down and collided with a Chinese fighter jet?

Chinese Fighter collided with us. They were trying to pull a classic Soviet/Russian unsafe flying habit and the pilot got killed.


He was being sarcastic.

But the Chinese really did see it that way, because that's what their government told them.   I used to haunt Usenet back then, and the Great Firewall wasn't so much a thing, and man, those PRC citizens simply couldn't accept that their pilot farked up.
 
2019-08-02 11:40:52 AM  

This text is now purple: dittybopper: You can't sink an island.

[Fark user image 720x480]

Can.

Just not easily.


So can they.    And in fact, theirs are probably newer, because until very recently our newest warheads were manufactured in the late 1980's.  Remember that when you get all flippant about using nuclear weapons.
 
2019-08-02 11:47:00 AM  
The islands exist to lay more of a claim on the South China Sea, which is why the USN sails right next to them to constantly delegitimize their claim that they're actual islands under international law.

They are not viable as military outposts agains the US, no matter what ditty's inane fixation with satellites says. If we get into a shooting war with China, enough to actually land troops against them you can bet those satellites are gone.

Then the nukes get involved, and now you see why the islands are a political, not military move. At best they're there to keep one of the local nations from occupying them and embarassing China.
 
2019-08-02 11:47:15 AM  

dittybopper: Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"

Actually, that is brilliant.


You can sink an aircraft carrier.

You can't sink an island.

Yes, you can bomb the piss out of an island, but if your carrier aircraft are within range of the island, your aircraft carrier is within range of the aircraft and missiles based on that island.

A bomb through the deck of an aircraft carrier basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking weeks or months.

A bomb on an island airfield basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking minutes or hours.


The idea of building up a number of islands with airfields and missiles and bases for things like large numbers of relatively inexpensive but capable submarine hunting ships is a pretty damned good strategy for China.

The other thing to consider here is that you can't achieve surprise anymore with a lightning carrier strike anymore because of radar satellites..   No more Doolittle raids, no more Pearl Harbors.    You can't hide something as big as a carrier group from satellite radar.   China currently has 2 satellite radars aloft and is planning 9 more.

That would give them essentially full coverage of any area on the ocean every 1.5 hours, essentially.   How far can a ship move at 35 knots in an hour and a half?   Just a little over 52 nautical miles.

They'd see us coming a long way off.


You are very wrong.  on a carrier, we know when satellites are overhead.  and it's a big damn ocean.
 
2019-08-02 12:15:10 PM  

dittybopper: Evil Twin Skippy: TheGreatGazoo: dittybopper: Flappyhead: Amazing how China and Russia are both elbowing their borders.  It's almost like they're not worried about repercussions.

China has been doing this for a while, and so has Russia.  Did you forget that they annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine during Obama's watch?  What about the Georgian war?

Don't forget the man made islands China is putting military outposts on.

"We are up against a foe with aircraft carriers and who literally wrote the book on amphibious warfare and island landings."

"We should build a bunch of islands, and rely on them to project our power."

"BRILLIANT!"

Actually, that is brilliant.


You can sink an aircraft carrier.

You can't sink an island.

Yes, you can bomb the piss out of an island, but if your carrier aircraft are within range of the island, your aircraft carrier is within range of the aircraft and missiles based on that island.

A bomb through the deck of an aircraft carrier basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking weeks or months.

A bomb on an island airfield basically puts it out of business until it's repaired, taking minutes or hours.


The idea of building up a number of islands with airfields and missiles and bases for things like large numbers of relatively inexpensive but capable submarine hunting ships is a pretty damned good strategy for China.

The other thing to consider here is that you can't achieve surprise anymore with a lightning carrier strike anymore because of radar satellites..   No more Doolittle raids, no more Pearl Harbors.    You can't hide something as big as a carrier group from satellite radar.   China currently has 2 satellite radars aloft and is planning 9 more.

That would give them essentially full coverage of any area on the ocean every 1.5 hours, essentially.   How far can a ship move at 35 knots in an hour and a half?   Just a little over 52 nautical miles.

They'd see us coming a long way off.


Considering that the carriers have trained for decades for strikes on the Kola Peninsula, I have a feeling that some strategies do exist for approaching a heavily defended shore without being annihilated before you get there. Landing Marines may be an issue, but ground troops may not be necessary to achieve the mission of rendering those islands useless.
 
2019-08-02 12:19:54 PM  

cartersdad: You are very wrong.  on a carrier, we know when satellites are overhead.  and it's a big damn ocean.


...and?

What are you gonna do, submerge the carrier group when you know the satellite's coming?
 
2019-08-02 12:38:48 PM  

dittybopper: This text is now purple: dittybopper: You can't sink an island.

[Fark user image 720x480]

Can.

Just not easily.

So can they.


Well, sure.

But it's harder to sink Hawaii than a man-made sandbar in the SCS.
 
2019-08-02 1:25:29 PM  

BigNumber12: cartersdad: You are very wrong.  on a carrier, we know when satellites are overhead.  and it's a big damn ocean.

...and?

What are you gonna do, submerge the carrier group when you know the satellite's coming?


It's called moving them.  either you move them before or after.  and if it war time, planes are always in the air.  so unless you sneak a sub in, you are not coming anywhere near a carrier.  Australia did a mock airstrike on our group once.  we had a week window, so didn't know when.  by the time we were alerted, we launched all our aircraft.  final score, US Navy 324, Australia, 4.  closest they got was 75 miles away.  On the other hand, a sub did pop up on us once in the Indian ocean.
 
2019-08-02 1:38:15 PM  
That the Chinese naval vessel offered to escort the Taiwanese container ship to a Chinese port may simply have reflected a standard operating procedure.

When you get in accident of course you want them to go to your mechanic but, no, they always go to the goddamn dealership.
 
2019-08-02 2:00:19 PM  

cartersdad: BigNumber12: cartersdad: You are very wrong.  on a carrier, we know when satellites are overhead.  and it's a big damn ocean.

...and?

What are you gonna do, submerge the carrier group when you know the satellite's coming?

It's called moving them.


Satellites can see a wider area than the carrier can move between passes. Ditty explicitly laid that out for you. Given how few carriers we have in the Pacific at any given time, China most likely already tracks every single one's movement from the moment it leaves port.

Do you seriously think the ~35 kn moving objects are an insurmountable obstacle to satellite surveillance?

cartersdad: and if it war time, planes are always in the air.  so unless you sneak a sub in, you are not coming anywhere near a carrier. Australia did a mock airstrike on our group once.  we had a week window, so didn't know when.  by the time we were alerted, we launched all our aircraft.  final score, US Navy 324, Australia, 4.  closest they got was 75 miles away. On the other hand, a sub did pop up on us once in the Indian ocean.


You seem to be under the impression that naval warfare's still in the pre-WWII era where engagements are conducted within visual range.

We are simply not going to use a carrier in a confined area against an adversary that's armed itself specifically for area denial against surface combatants, and can reach out and touch you from hundreds of miles away. We're far too risk-averse for that.
 
2019-08-02 2:16:01 PM  

BigNumber12: cartersdad: BigNumber12: cartersdad: You are very wrong.  on a carrier, we know when satellites are overhead.  and it's a big damn ocean.

...and?

What are you gonna do, submerge the carrier group when you know the satellite's coming?

It's called moving them.

Satellites can see a wider area than the carrier can move between passes. Ditty explicitly laid that out for you. Given how few carriers we have in the Pacific at any given time, China most likely already tracks every single one's movement from the moment it leaves port.

Do you seriously think the ~35 kn moving objects are an insurmountable obstacle to satellite surveillance?

cartersdad: and if it war time, planes are always in the air.  so unless you sneak a sub in, you are not coming anywhere near a carrier. Australia did a mock airstrike on our group once.  we had a week window, so didn't know when.  by the time we were alerted, we launched all our aircraft.  final score, US Navy 324, Australia, 4.  closest they got was 75 miles away. On the other hand, a sub did pop up on us once in the Indian ocean.

You seem to be under the impression that naval warfare's still in the pre-WWII era where engagements are conducted within visual range.

We are simply not going to use a carrier in a confined area against an adversary that's armed itself specifically for area denial against surface combatants, and can reach out and touch you from hundreds of miles away. We're far too risk-averse for that.


You seem to be under the impression that SURTASS, SOSUS, LFA Sonar, P3's dropping sonobuoys and other modern long-range ASW measures don't exist.
 
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