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(Some Science-Based Guy)   Michigan legislators: you're free to peddle quack medicine, long as you get a license for it   (sciencebasedmedicine.org) divider line
    More: Asinine, Alternative medicine, Traditional Chinese medicine, practice of acupuncture, Acupuncture, practitioners of pseudoscientific medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, Michigan acupuncturists, alternative medicine  
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789 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jun 2019 at 10:10 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



22 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2019-06-24 09:17:15 PM  
That site is... suspect.
 
2019-06-24 10:13:25 PM  

adamgreeney: That site is... suspect.


How so?  Honest question.
 
2019-06-24 10:19:44 PM  
Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing. I don't think so, but have fun shouting that from the rooftops in Beijing. The main problem I have is that this uses acupuncture as a foot in the door to allow seriously dangerous quackery such as homeopathy.
 
2019-06-24 10:22:37 PM  

adamgreeney: That site is... suspect.


Dr. David Gorski is also known as Orac, a well known, well respected debunker of quackery. If he says something, it's worth paying attention.
 
2019-06-24 10:28:01 PM  

adamgreeney: That site is... suspect.


Only if you're a quack or practice quackery.  Science-Based Medicine (SBM) is a great blog.  Skeptical Raptor is another good one.
 
2019-06-24 10:32:13 PM  

baron von doodle: Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing. I don't think so, but have fun shouting that from the rooftops in Beijing. The main problem I have is that this uses acupuncture as a foot in the door to allow seriously dangerous quackery such as homeopathy.


Oddly enough, homeopathy originally was considered a huge advance over medical practices that included bloodletting and various concotions containing mercury.  The University of Michigan had a School of Homeopathy until around 1922, when people realized that the scientific method could be applied to medicine.
 
2019-06-24 10:44:12 PM  
Finally step# 2!!!
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-06-24 10:47:25 PM  

kudayta: adamgreeney: That site is... suspect.

How so?  Honest question.



It's worded in such away that it could have been posted on RedState or InfoWars and nobody would have noticed.
 
2019-06-24 10:53:02 PM  

baron von doodle: Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing. I don't think so, but have fun shouting that from the rooftops in Beijing. The main problem I have is that this uses acupuncture as a foot in the door to allow seriously dangerous quackery such as homeopathy.


Read far enough through the article, and that's the point. I like the idea that someone making trusted decisions about my well being would be licensed through recognized standards of skill and training to do so. Especially invasive stuff.
 
2019-06-24 11:11:04 PM  
Every once in a while I need to share this image.  As a public service...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-06-24 11:22:33 PM  
Acupuncture releases endorphins, which fit in the same receptors as opioids.  Thus the help with pain management. Plenty of studies show that acupuncture works, but plenty show that it does not.

> Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing.

Acupuncture and Chinese medicine is one of the best researched mass placebos in history, for the most part. Nothing wrong with a placebo. They can work EVEN IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE PLACEBO EFFECT.

Good book:
lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
Suggestible You: The Curious Science of Your Brain's Ability to Deceive, Transform, and Heal

The bad thing is, 1) They don't work for everyone. 2) They work very well on some things, not at all on other things. For example, Tai Chi has proven medical benefits. Tai Chi does not cure tuberculosis. If Tai Chi cured tuberculosis, hardly any Chinese person would have ever died from TB, but they did. In other words, placebos have limits.
 
2019-06-24 11:31:34 PM  

baron von doodle: Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing.


Acupuncture was indistinguishable from bloodletting until the 1930s.  The only reason it has any market traction is the cheap prices compared to real medicine. You know the insurance company would rather send those malingering psychosomatic morons to a cheap quack for a hit of placebo woowoo than to pay for expensive diagnostic lab work that confirms the problem is between the patient's ears.
 
2019-06-24 11:43:29 PM  

dennysgod: kudayta: adamgreeney: That site is... suspect.

How so?  Honest question.


It's worded in such away that it could have been posted on RedState or InfoWars and nobody would have noticed.


I think I'd notice if InfoWars did a piece arguing against quackery.  RedState, maybe not.  I don't read enough RedState anymore to know.
 
2019-06-25 12:09:15 AM  

GoodHomer: adamgreeney: That site is... suspect.

Dr. David Gorski is also known as Orac, a well known, well respected debunker of quackery. If he says something, it's worth paying attention.


I was questioning it too, so I went searching.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/scienc​e​-based-medicine/

http://www.skepdic.com/sciencebasedme​d​icine.html - Some criticism about the site relying too much on randomized controlled trials to determine their outcomes. But still says a lot that this is the best criticism I could find about it.

It's legit folks.

---
To the topic at hand itself
--


This is yet another terrible, yet logical "progression" of our "post-truth" world.

Because why stop at questioning actual recorded video and audio because it doesn't say the things we want it to? Why stop at questioning meteorological experts who would have much more to loose from lying than gain from being successful at it when it confirms beyond any doubt our current methods of generating energy are going to make the planet itself harder to live on?

No reason to not question and dismiss medical doctors who've spent years of their lives learning the science in favor of a guy who claims water has "memories" at that point, right?
 
2019-06-25 12:56:21 AM  

TheWhoppah: baron von doodle: Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing.

Acupuncture was indistinguishable from bloodletting until the 1930s.  The only reason it has any market traction is the cheap prices compared to real medicine. You know the insurance company would rather send those malingering psychosomatic morons to a cheap quack for a hit of placebo woowoo than to pay for expensive diagnostic lab work that confirms the problem is between the patient's ears.


I forking said "theoretically".
 
2019-06-25 12:59:06 AM  
 
2019-06-25 01:05:45 AM  
Quack science. My mother (74) knew that I had knee issues. I have told her, repeatedly, to not buy me things. She bought me silver (the metal) knee salve and silver supplements.

I doubt that there was.any actual silver, but if there was.... Assuming that I consumed silver.... It. Hmm. I know it would not be positive. At worst I might wind up with heavy metal poisoning.
 
2019-06-25 03:52:45 AM  

baron von doodle: Quack science. My mother (74) knew that I had knee issues. I have told her, repeatedly, to not buy me things. She bought me silver (the metal) knee salve and silver supplements.

I doubt that there was.any actual silver, but if there was.... Assuming that I consumed silver.... It. Hmm. I know it would not be positive. At worst I might wind up with heavy metal poisoning.


Yeah, don't take silver metal internally unless you want to turn blue...

Fark user imageView Full Size


Baaaaaasically you're a walking overdeveloped photograph.
 
2019-06-25 08:16:06 AM  
Is there scientific proof we can heal ourselves? | Lissa Rankin, MD | TEDxAmericanRiviera
Youtube LWQfe__fNbs
 
2019-06-25 08:43:33 AM  

baron von doodle: Acupuncture is theoretically a time proven thing. I don't think so, but have fun shouting that from the rooftops in Beijing. The main problem I have is that this uses acupuncture as a foot in the door to allow seriously dangerous quackery such as homeopathy.


Acupuncture? No.
Screeching FTA : ELECTROACUPUNCTURE, PRICKING THERAPY, DRY NEEDLING, AND INTRAMUSCULAR STIMULATION
So dry needling has some significant PRJ studies behind it. The theory is it stops muscle spasms by interfering with the electrical signals sent by the nerves holding it in a contracted state.

That being said the article is mostly right on the other things.
 
2019-06-25 10:25:37 AM  

baron von doodle: Quack science. My mother (74) knew that I had knee issues. I have told her, repeatedly, to not buy me things. She bought me silver (the metal) knee salve and silver supplements.

I doubt that there was.any actual silver, but if there was.... Assuming that I consumed silver.... It. Hmm. I know it would not be positive. At worst I might wind up with heavy metal poisoning.


Colloidal silver! That has some... Interesting side effects. Silver isn't really a heavy metal, and it's not particularly poisonous, though too much of anything is a problem. Of course, it also doesn't do anything useful, either. However, again, there are interesting side effects:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-06-25 10:28:55 AM  

Greek: baron von doodle: Quack science. My mother (74) knew that I had knee issues. I have told her, repeatedly, to not buy me things. She bought me silver (the metal) knee salve and silver supplements.

I doubt that there was.any actual silver, but if there was.... Assuming that I consumed silver.... It. Hmm. I know it would not be positive. At worst I might wind up with heavy metal poisoning.

Colloidal silver! That has some... Interesting side effects. Silver isn't really a heavy metal, and it's not particularly poisonous, though too much of anything is a problem. Of course, it also doesn't do anything useful, either. However, again, there are interesting side effects:
[Fark user image image 264x191]


I have a warped mind. I think that Jamie Hyneman should take lots of colloidal silver and turn himself blue. Then he'd REALLY look like a walrus. Either him or Wilford Brimley.
 
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