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(Kotaku)   Twitch bans Lithuanian streamer for cosplaying Apex Legends Lifeline with blackface. Let's unpack all of this 2019 statement on Kotaku   (kotaku.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Race, White people, Black people, African American, Lifeline cosplay, Blackface, Miscegenation, United Kingdom  
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971 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Apr 2019 at 11:34 PM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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4 days ago  
This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.  Someone has been prevented and penalized for something they enjoy and does not harm anyone because they are white. Cosplay is IN SUPPORT of a character, the exact opposite of discriminator behavior.

Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place.  They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

/trans
//almost sued my company
///for actual discrimination
 
4 days ago  
halotosis

This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.

There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" Twitch has policies against hate speak and all that sh*t because there is far too much of it out there and they are protecting their brand with a zero tolerance policy. I don't agree with it as cosplay comes in many different forms but it is not my company to run.

If you take anything from this person on the internet, take this. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination... it is just discrimination. Race, color, creed, gender, age, sexual preference, or the way you like potatoes. It is just discrimination.
 
4 days ago  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: halotosis

This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.

There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" Twitch has policies against hate speak and all that sh*t because there is far too much of it out there and they are protecting their brand with a zero tolerance policy. I don't agree with it as cosplay comes in many different forms but it is not my company to run.

If you take anything from this person on the internet, take this. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination... it is just discrimination. Race, color, creed, gender, age, sexual preference, or the way you like potatoes. It is just discrimination.


You might not understand this... but it wasn't the offensive behavior that almost got my company sued... it was was they did to try to "protect" me.  Them protecting me was more offensive to me than the original offense.  Basically, corporate got wind of a situation and hurt people I didn't want to see hurt.  All in the name of preventing discrimination.  Good times.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.  Someone has been prevented and penalized for something they enjoy and does not harm anyone because they are white. Cosplay is IN SUPPORT of a character, the exact opposite of discriminator behavior.

Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place.  They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

/trans
//almost sued my company
///for actual discrimination


No, it just regular discrimination.  Twitch didn't have a problem with her when she was white, but when she was black all of a sudden it was a problem.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.


Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.
 
4 days ago  

rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.


And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."
 
4 days ago  
'Internet.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."


True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.
 
4 days ago  

rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.


Again, context matters...  This is stupid.  It's makeup (us trans folk get treated like this all the time for wearing a costume, makeup, whatever).  The only reason you are offended is someone told you you should be.  Blackface hasn't been a thing in this country likely in your or my lifetime.  White knights, endlessly virtue signalling.
 
4 days ago  
halotosis

Random Anonymous Blackmail: halotosis

This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.

There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" Twitch has policies against hate speak and all that sh*t because there is far too much of it out there and they are protecting their brand with a zero tolerance policy. I don't agree with it as cosplay comes in many different forms but it is not my company to run.

If you take anything from this person on the internet, take this. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination... it is just discrimination. Race, color, creed, gender, age, sexual preference, or the way you like potatoes. It is just discrimination.

You might not understand this... but it wasn't the offensive behavior that almost got my company sued... it was was they did to try to "protect" me. Them protecting me was more offensive to me than the original offense. Basically, corporate got wind of a situation and hurt people I didn't want to see hurt. All in the name of preventing discrimination. Good times.


I wasn't referring to your situation, as I know nothing about it. I was referring to your statement of reverse discrimination. I intentionally only copied that part of your statement to alleviate any confusion on my opinion toward it. I apologize if I created any.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.

Again, context matters...  This is stupid.  It's makeup (us trans folk get treated like this all the time for wearing a costume, makeup, whatever).  The only reason you are offended is someone told you you should be.  Blackface hasn't been a thing in this country likely in your or my lifetime.  White knights, endlessly virtue signalling.


Ooh, I think I found the person from the Midwest!
 
4 days ago  

rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.

Again, context matters...  This is stupid.  It's makeup (us trans folk get treated like this all the time for wearing a costume, makeup, whatever).  The only reason you are offended is someone told you you should be.  Blackface hasn't been a thing in this country likely in your or my lifetime.  White knights, endlessly virtue signalling.

Ooh, I think I found the person from the Midwest!


I find you offensive.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."


This is true, I work with a woman from Zimbabwe and this topic came up and she couldn't understand what the problem was with white people wearing makeup to make themselves look black. I had to explain the context of old Hollywood' use of blackface clown/caricature makeup and that it's hard for people to disassociate that from people just wearing a costume.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.

Again, context matters...  This is stupid.  It's makeup (us trans folk get treated like this all the time for wearing a costume, makeup, whatever).  The only reason you are offended is someone told you you should be.  Blackface hasn't been a thing in this country likely in your or my lifetime.  White knights, endlessly virtue signalling.

Ooh, I think I found the person from the Midwest!

I find you offensive.


And I find your ignorance of active racism in the USA and Europe to be offensive.
 
4 days ago  

rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.

Again, context matters...  This is stupid.  It's makeup (us trans folk get treated like this all the time for wearing a costume, makeup, whatever).  The only reason you are offended is someone told you you should be.  Blackface hasn't been a thing in this country likely in your or my lifetime.  White knights, endlessly virtue signalling.

Ooh, I think I found the person from the Midwest!

I find you offensive.

And I find your ignorance of active racism in the USA and Europe to be offensive.


You are perpetuating racism, bigotry, etc.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.

Again, context matters...  This is stupid.  It's makeup (us trans folk get treated like this all the time for wearing a costume, makeup, whatever).  The only reason you are offended is someone told you you should be.  Blackface hasn't been a thing in this country likely in your or my lifetime.  White knights, endlessly virtue signalling.

Ooh, I think I found the person from the Midwest!

I find you offensive.

And I find your ignorance of active racism in the USA and Europe to be offensive.

You are perpetuating racism, bigotry, etc.


I'm the real racist for pointing out the racism in others? LOL, that's a tired conservative talking point. Just step away from the keyboard.
 
4 days ago  

rebelyell2006: halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."

True, there is a lot of casual and unthinking racism in Europe. And they don't even realize what they are doing. But then again, that sounds like my grandparents.


What the fark.
 
4 days ago  
This one seems like a bit of a stretch in that there doesn't seem to be anything mocking, hateful or caricaturish about her costume.
 
4 days ago  
I presume the character is depicted as black. It becomes a damned if you do/don't. If you use makeup to acknowledge the skin color, you're doing blackface. If you don't, you're whitewashing.
 
4 days ago  
Intent is important when deciding whether it's racism.

This definitely wasn't racism.

It could easily be argued that it was a poor choice as it is a reminder of racism, but it could also be argued that it very likely isn't in Lithuania. Whilst respecting people's cultures is important (I'm talking about Americans, here, not blacks, I don't see why people with dark skin would care unless they're from a culture where it's been a problem) it's impossible to know the history and culture of all of them.

This didn't need punishment, just Twitch saying to her, "Sorry, we're an American company and blackface is a major issue in our country, we're going to have to stop your stream and remove anything related to it."

She would have likely responded, "That sucks, I didn't mean any harm and not happy about it, but I can understand why you're doing this, I'll avoid this in the future on your platform."
 
4 days ago  
I guess Twitch won't be the appropriate platform for my new "Mr. Popo Plays" show.
 
4 days ago  

dyhchong: Intent is important when deciding whether it's racism.

This definitely wasn't racism.

It could easily be argued that it was a poor choice as it is a reminder of racism, but it could also be argued that it very likely isn't in Lithuania. Whilst respecting people's cultures is important (I'm talking about Americans, here, not blacks, I don't see why people with dark skin would care unless they're from a culture where it's been a problem) it's impossible to know the history and culture of all of them.

This didn't need punishment, just Twitch saying to her, "Sorry, we're an American company and blackface is a major issue in our country, we're going to have to stop your stream and remove anything related to it."

She would have likely responded, "That sucks, I didn't mean any harm and not happy about it, but I can understand why you're doing this, I'll avoid this in the future on your platform."


Lithuania literally has only a couple hundred black people in it now, and had no part of the slave trade and was never a colonial power. They used to have a larger empire, but they weren't colonizers. And, depending on how much she knows of Japanese culture, and how much she's gotten into cosplay, I can see it might be confusing to her to see all the Japanese cosplayers in blond wigs, blue contacts and pale makeup and not see that as a similar thing. It has to explained to non-Japanese people that even though Japanese are making characters that have what looks like characteristics of white people to them, secretly those blond, blue eyed characters are supposed to be Japanese. I sure didn't intuit that on my own, I had to find that out. I have no idea what nerd culture is like in Lithuania and if this is something she understands, or if in her perception other cosplayers are doing this all the time, even though they're really not.

To an American, all these things are obvious. To her, I don't know.
 
4 days ago  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: halotosis

This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.

There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" Twitch has policies against hate speak and all that sh*t because there is far too much of it out there and they are protecting their brand with a zero tolerance policy. I don't agree with it as cosplay comes in many different forms but it is not my company to run.

If you take anything from this person on the internet, take this. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination... it is just discrimination. Race, color, creed, gender, age, sexual preference, or the way you like potatoes. It is just discrimination.


AHAHAHAHHAHA.

They have a well documented history of having quick a bit of tolerance, depending on who is doing what.
 
4 days ago  

DeathByGeekSquad: Random Anonymous Blackmail: halotosis

This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.

There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" Twitch has policies against hate speak and all that sh*t because there is far too much of it out there and they are protecting their brand with a zero tolerance policy. I don't agree with it as cosplay comes in many different forms but it is not my company to run.

If you take anything from this person on the internet, take this. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination... it is just discrimination. Race, color, creed, gender, age, sexual preference, or the way you like potatoes. It is just discrimination.

AHAHAHAHHAHA.

They have a well documented history of having quick a bit of tolerance, depending on who is doing what.


*quite

/morning
//faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark
 
4 days ago  
Anyone claiming this isn't racist black?
Or is this just a bunch of white people explaining why it is cool to wear racist stereotypes?


Yeah and the prince was just wearing a nazi costume to that party back in the day.

Seriously blackface is bad period.

Anyone preaching differently is just ignoring the history as even a cursory internet search finds that it is considered offensive.

Can I dress up in whatever offensive stereotype I want and it is all cool as long as it is not racist in my country? The answer is not anymore.

If you are going to be international you need to learn about the customs of the places you will broadcasting to.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: rebelyell2006: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place. They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

Except nowadays, it isn't Hollywood people doing it, but asshole edgelords who otherwise seem normal until you look at their Facebook pages or go to their parties.

And you are being culturally egocentric in thinking the entire world shares the culture of the US and even thinks blackface is a "thing."


img.fark.netView Full Size


the Dutch concur.
 
4 days ago  

thiefofdreams: Anyone claiming this isn't racist black?
Or is this just a bunch of white people explaining why it is cool to wear racist stereotypes?


Yeah and the prince was just wearing a nazi costume to that party back in the day.

Seriously blackface is bad period.

Anyone preaching differently is just ignoring the history as even a cursory internet search finds that it is considered offensive.

Can I dress up in whatever offensive stereotype I want and it is all cool as long as it is not racist in my country? The answer is not anymore.

If you are going to be international you need to learn about the customs of the places you will broadcasting to.


But she wasn't dressing up as an offensive stereotype - she wasn't performing in a minstrel show or anything.  No coal black makeup and exaggerated red lips.  She was dressed up as a character in a video game.
 
4 days ago  

thiefofdreams: Anyone claiming this isn't racist black?
Or is this just a bunch of white people explaining why it is cool to wear racist stereotypes?


Yeah and the prince was just wearing a nazi costume to that party back in the day.

Seriously blackface is bad period.

Anyone preaching differently is just ignoring the history as even a cursory internet search finds that it is considered offensive.

Can I dress up in whatever offensive stereotype I want and it is all cool as long as it is not racist in my country? The answer is not anymore.

If you are going to be international you need to learn about the customs of the places you will broadcasting to.


I'm black, and this isn't blackface.

Blackface is a specific kind of comedic act, not simply dressing up as any dark skinned character. So imagine someone dressing up as Trump then doing self deprecating acts on stage to make fun of him, but instead of dressing as Trump they dress and act as what they perceive to be a stereotypical black person though their bigoted views. Of course that is insulting to the victim and it's meant to be, which is what makes it racist when the victim is now an entire class of people.

Now if they dressed as Trump under different circumstances (with the wig, the suit, and the red tie), you might have said they are a fan of his or doing a respectful impersonation. Not unlike Some kid wearing an Obama mask on Halloween, which isn't necessarily doing blackface since he's just dressing as a former president. This is a perfectly normal and acceptable thing.
If he puts on the same Obama costume and runs around eating a banana shouting "ooga ooga", then that's a different and a very insulting thing he's doing. It's not any less insulting if he takes the mask off and continues the banana while adding "just like Obama".

Now the problem then is you look at someone using makeup, take her actions out of context,  and bust out your color chart to decide what is racism.
You've divorced their appearance from their actions in order to create an argument against them, which is kinda racist when you think about it. Because it doesn't take into account who they are or what their intentions are, its entirely based on their color.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: halotosis

This is exactly what reverse discrimination looks like.

There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" Twitch has policies against hate speak and all that sh*t because there is far too much of it out there and they are protecting their brand with a zero tolerance policy. I don't agree with it as cosplay comes in many different forms but it is not my company to run.

If you take anything from this person on the internet, take this. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination... it is just discrimination. Race, color, creed, gender, age, sexual preference, or the way you like potatoes. It is just discrimination.


Someone doesn't understand vectors.
 
4 days ago  
Elves are racist.
 
4 days ago  

way south: thiefofdreams: Anyone claiming this isn't racist black?
Or is this just a bunch of white people explaining why it is cool to wear racist stereotypes?


Yeah and the prince was just wearing a nazi costume to that party back in the day.

Seriously blackface is bad period.

Anyone preaching differently is just ignoring the history as even a cursory internet search finds that it is considered offensive.

Can I dress up in whatever offensive stereotype I want and it is all cool as long as it is not racist in my country? The answer is not anymore.

If you are going to be international you need to learn about the customs of the places you will broadcasting to.

I'm black, and this isn't blackface.

Blackface is a specific kind of comedic act, not simply dressing up as any dark skinned character. So imagine someone dressing up as Trump then doing self deprecating acts on stage to make fun of him, but instead of dressing as Trump they dress and act as what they perceive to be a stereotypical black person though their bigoted views. Of course that is insulting to the victim and it's meant to be, which is what makes it racist when the victim is now an entire class of people.

Now if they dressed as Trump under different circumstances (with the wig, the suit, and the red tie), you might have said they are a fan of his or doing a respectful impersonation. Not unlike Some kid wearing an Obama mask on Halloween, which isn't necessarily doing blackface since he's just dressing as a former president. This is a perfectly normal and acceptable thing.
If he puts on the same Obama costume and runs around eating a banana shouting "ooga ooga", then that's a different and a very insulting thing he's doing. It's not any less insulting if he takes the mask off and continues the banana while adding "just like Obama".

Now the problem then is you look at someone using makeup, take her actions out of context,  and bust out your color chart to decide what is racism.
You've divorced their appeara ...


This is a very good explanation of why I said the people calling this racism are the ones perpetuating racism.  Want something to point at as racist, be upset about, let's talk about police violence, separating migrant children from their families, our biased justice system, the prison industrial complex or the asshat we have as president.

Also, this is the rich mans game... divide and conquer, black vs white.  They've been at this for a long, long time... pit us against each other so we don't pay attention the real problem for most common people, them.  Don't play it, we all win.
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place.  They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.


So when a white fraternity in the southern US holds "Plantation Days" with bros smearing shoe polish on their faces, that's not offensive?

halotosis: /trans

... which gives you exactly zero authority in dictating whether something is racist or not.
 
4 days ago  

chascarrillo: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place.  They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

So when a white fraternity in the southern US holds "Plantation Days" with bros smearing shoe polish on their faces, that's not offensive?

halotosis: /trans

... which gives you exactly zero authority in dictating whether something is racist or not.


I deal with bullshiat discrimination and threats to my safety, my career, etc on a daily basis... I have a pretty farking good idea what it looks like and a cosplay girl ain't it.  Problem deminimus.  CONTEXT MATTERS... what you describe above is absolutely offensive, because intent matters.
 
4 days ago  
By definition, and individual character is not a "stereotype". I can see why blackface is a touchy subject, but I would say there is a distinction between "blackface" (which tends to involve a specific look) and trying to look like a specific character. I don't think we are there yet, but I would like to get to the point where a kid who is into astronomy could dress up as Neil deGrasse Tyson for Halloween without being declared a racist.

Sometimes we want to look like the people we idolize. It would be pretty sad if we can only idolize those who share our race.

//Of course, this was a game character, so WTF?
 
4 days ago  
Twitch has the right to ban her, fine.  But if you are personally outraged at her actions, you are part of the problem, not the solution.  For fark's sake use your brains.  At least some of you in this thread are doing so.
 
4 days ago  
Don't let the energy creatures win.

static.comicvine.comView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

halotosis: chascarrillo: halotosis: Blackface should really only be offensive if hollywood/mainstream media engages in it... since it was their problem in the first place.  They were intentionally discriminating against black actors.

So when a white fraternity in the southern US holds "Plantation Days" with bros smearing shoe polish on their faces, that's not offensive?

halotosis: /trans

... which gives you exactly zero authority in dictating whether something is racist or not.

I deal with bullshiat discrimination and threats to my safety, my career, etc on a daily basis... I have a pretty farking good idea what it looks like and a cosplay girl ain't it.  Problem deminimus.  CONTEXT MATTERS... what you describe above is absolutely offensive, because intent matters.


Since the discrimination you face isn't the same as the racism against African Americans, that means racism doesn't exist anymore? I wouldn't consult an astrophysicist on matters of macroeconomics.
 
4 days ago  

wildcardjack: I presume the character is depicted as black. It becomes a damned if you do/don't. If you use makeup to acknowledge the skin color, you're doing blackface. If you don't, you're whitewashing.


Yup.

And if you just say "don't wear the makeup or the costume of a character if you are not of the ethnicity of the character involved," then that's racist as well.

Clearly, the winning move is "stay indoors and don't breathe."
 
4 days ago  

MrBonestripper: wildcardjack: I presume the character is depicted as black. It becomes a damned if you do/don't. If you use makeup to acknowledge the skin color, you're doing blackface. If you don't, you're whitewashing.

Yup.

And if you just say "don't wear the makeup or the costume of a character if you are not of the ethnicity of the character involved," then that's racist as well.

Clearly, the winning move is "stay indoors and don't breathe."


The simple question to ask yourself is "how central is the character's race to the character?"  If it's very central, and that's not your race, then don't do that cosplay.  Few people are going get what you're doing with your white Black Panther cosplay.

But if race is not central to the character, then cosplay away . . . but don't try to reproduce the racial characteristics.  I went to a con just two weeks ago and saw tons of Lifeline cosplay.  None of it by black cosplayers, but everyone was cool with it because they all embodied the character through costume and not by trying to make themselves blacker.  A character like Lifeline makes this pretty easy because there are tons of distinctive costume elements you can use.

If this girl did everything except darken her skin for that cosplay, she would have been fine.
 
4 days ago  
Blackface cosplay...

img05.deviantart.netView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

GameSprocket: By definition, and individual character is not a "stereotype". I can see why blackface is a touchy subject, but I would say there is a distinction between "blackface" (which tends to involve a specific look) and trying to look like a specific character. I don't think we are there yet, but I would like to get to the point where a kid who is into astronomy could dress up as Neil deGrasse Tyson for Halloween without being declared a racist.

Sometimes we want to look like the people we idolize. It would be pretty sad if we can only idolize those who share our race.

//Of course, this was a game character, so WTF?


If you just want to limit black face to the specific embodiment of black face in old timey minstrel shows, I think that misses the point.  We find those things distasteful because they represented a culture of comedy that portrayed black people as ignorant and foolish.  That still happens when people dress up as black characters, even if they're not specifically wearing shoe polish black makeup with huge, exaggerated lips like in olden days.

The biggest reason why kids can't dress up as Neil deGrasse Tyson for Halloween is that, but for his race, he mostly just looks like a guy.  That's why we don't dress up as a lot of real life notable men of learning and accomplishment.  Even though there's no stigma against cosplaying as white people, you don't see Halloween costumes for Richard Feynman or Robert Oppenheimer.  They wore basically normal clothes for the period.  You really don't even see much Carl Sagan, but that's just a Tweed jacket and the Sagan-voice.  You do get Einstein costumes, because he had the distinctive hair.

Costuming is about emphasizing distinctive elements of the character.  When you dress up as Einstein, you throw on the wild wig, and stick out your tongue like that one picture.  Everyone knows that's Einstein.  What do you do for Tyson?  He mostly wears New Balance shoes, JC Penny slacks, and t-shirts, polos or button downs.  He also tends to take his shoes off when he speaks publicly, a lot of people don't know that.  You can't make a costume with that.  So what else is there to emphasize?  He wears his hair kinda normal for a black dude, but you can use that.  He's got a mustache, you can use that too.  So now you've got a normal looking with normal, buzzed-short hair and a mustache.  Still not a costume.  So what else?  Oh, I know! He's a famous black dude in science!  Give him a science prop like a book or a little mini telescope or something, and blacken him up!  Everyone will get that costume!  Annnnnnd now we're back at stereotypes.
 
4 days ago  

Nuuu: So what else?  Oh, I know! He's a famous black dude in science!  Give him a science prop like a book or a little mini telescope or something, and blacken him up!  Everyone will get that costume!  Annnnnnd now we're back at stereotypes.


Stereotyping 'scientist' with science props does not transfer to racial stereotyping just because the costume is portraying a black man.  What stereotypes are you against here?

It would be offensive to make a big, pink-lipped, jet black face with a science prop tacked on.  That is making fun of Tyson's blackness, and is not ok.  Using science props to portray a silly representation of his scientistness is not the same farking thing.
 
4 days ago  

King Something: 'Internet.


Serious business.
 
3 days ago  

Dr. Locrian: Nuuu: So what else?  Oh, I know! He's a famous black dude in science!  Give him a science prop like a book or a little mini telescope or something, and blacken him up!  Everyone will get that costume!  Annnnnnd now we're back at stereotypes.

Stereotyping 'scientist' with science props does not transfer to racial stereotyping just because the costume is portraying a black man.  What stereotypes are you against here?

It would be offensive to make a big, pink-lipped, jet black face with a science prop tacked on.  That is making fun of Tyson's blackness, and is not ok.  Using science props to portray a silly representation of his scientistness is not the same farking thing.


This isn't that hard.  As I showed, if you try to costume like Neil deGrasse Tyson without using his race, you can get the whole package exactly right and still not have a recognizable character, because he basically dresses like a normal guy, wears his hair like a normal guy, and talks like a normal guy.  People who are upset they can't dress up as NDT aren't complaining that they're not allowed to wear New Balance sneakers, JC Penny slacks and a polo to the costume party.  And that's the same reason nobody's longing for the day it's socially acceptable to dress up like Richard Feynman, another great mind who mostly looked and dressed normal.  The problem is not that people are forbidden from dressing as their heroes.  It's just most heroes of science and learning from the recent past, just kinda look like dudes.

But everyone recognizes that there are few famous black scientists.  And that's a stereotype about black people in science.  So if you dress up as "black science man" are you going to get recognized as NDT?  Probably.  Should you exploit that stereotype to make that costume distinguishable from literally every dude over 40?  How about no.
 
3 days ago  

wildcardjack: I presume the character is depicted as black. It becomes a damned if you do/don't. If you use makeup to acknowledge the skin color, you're doing blackface. If you don't, you're whitewashing.


It's smart because they banned all Twitch streamers that played black characters while not wearing blackface
 
3 days ago  
Highly sensitive US cultural nuances applied out of context to foreigner living on the other side of the planet, Ric Romero reports at 11.

Don't miss Ric's followup report on subsequent internet firestorms.
 
3 days ago  

zbtop: Highly sensitive US cultural nuances applied out of context to foreigner living on the other side of the planet, Ric Romero reports at 11.

Don't miss Ric's followup report on subsequent internet firestorms.


There aren't even real nuances involved in this. It's probably just some ugly dude clicking a report button because a twitch streamer hasn't paid him any attention.
Blackface is something that people, who think they understand what other cultures want, will get riled up about in order to attack their opponents. 
These are often things that we often don't care about. If you want a list of things that matter to me then fixing schools, ending the drug war, and reducing the cost of living would probably top my list. Because the rent is too damn high and voter turnout is too damn low.
I watched years of bugs bunny and disney cartoons growing up and probably seen blackface references hundreds of times. Never once has it bothered me to a point beyond thinking that "wow, things were different back then". It's not a concern in this era. Some girl cosplaying as a dark skinned character from a video game is not a thing that I'd have wasted brain cells on if it didn't appear on fark.
The number of black men disproportionately jailed  for smoking weed bothers me alot. I notice we don't get the ardent support for fixing that. Maybe some sponsorship from twitch or the big tech companies to end abusive police prac...   Oh wait, they're investigating Elon Musk cause he smoked a joint and shiatposted on twitter. Nevermind.
This has nothing to do with black people. Its about white people who hate other white people and want to drag us into it for their own leverage.
 
3 days ago  

wildcardjack: I presume the character is depicted as black. It becomes a damned if you do/don't. If you use makeup to acknowledge the skin color, you're doing blackface. If you don't, you're whitewashing.


It is indeed. So, IMO, just stay the fark away from it. I'd rather not cosplay my favorite character than have my character assassinated by trying.
 
3 days ago  

way south: There aren't even real nuances involved in this. It's probably just some ugly dude clicking a report button because a twitch streamer hasn't paid him any attention.
Blackface is something that people, who think they understand what other cultures want, will get riled up about in order to attack their opponents. 
These are often things that we often don't care about. If you want a list of things that matter to me then fixing schools, ending the drug war, and reducing the cost of living would probably top my list. Because the rent is too damn high and voter turnout is too damn low.
I watched years of bugs bunny and disney cartoons growing up and probably seen blackface references hundreds of times. Never once has it bothered me to a point beyond thinking that "wow, things were different back then". It's not a concern in this era. Some girl cosplaying as a dark skinned character from a video game is not a thing that I'd have wasted brain cells on if it didn't appear on fark.
The number of black men disproportionately jailed  for smoking weed bothers me alot. I notice we don't get the ardent support for fixing that. Maybe some sponsorship from twitch or the big tech companies to end abusive police prac...   Oh wait, they're investigating Elon Musk cause he smoked a joint and shiatposted on twitter. Nevermind.
This has nothing to do with black people. Its about white people who hate other white people and want to drag us into it for their own leverage.


Your posts in this thread have been cogent, worthwhile commentary, which is why I'm going to have to completely ignore them while I whitesplain that this girl's costume is literally hitler.
 
3 days ago  
So where were all of you in the Governor Northam threads?
 
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