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(The New Yorker)   Can London's knife-crime crisis be stopped? This may be a repeat from 1888   (newyorker.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Emergency department, Youth, Hospital, Homerton, Myocardial infarction, Franklyn Addo, East London, knife crime  
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1818 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2019 at 9:38 PM (7 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



67 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2019-04-15 09:39:09 PM  
Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.
 
2019-04-15 09:40:26 PM  

Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.


Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!
 
2019-04-15 09:41:45 PM  
You can start with some common sense knife control laws. Nobody needs a knife. Food can be sold precut.
 
2019-04-15 09:42:43 PM  

Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!


thetruthaboutguns.comView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 09:46:11 PM  
What you need is a gun that shoots knives but you have to buy the DLC.
 
2019-04-15 09:51:07 PM  

TomTudbury: Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!

[thetruthaboutguns.com image 640x459]


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 09:53:41 PM  

Trocadero: TomTudbury: Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!

[thetruthaboutguns.com image 640x459]

[i.imgur.com image 850x753]


That chainsaw isn't going to help your grouping, yo.
 
2019-04-15 09:54:35 PM  
Don't be shart dick, bin that sharp stick!
 
2019-04-15 09:54:35 PM  
Give half motorcycles and the other half scooters, and let 'em sort it out.
 
2019-04-15 09:57:12 PM  
Is there any evidence that guns reduce knife crime. I mean after you control for rural vs. urban, poverty, etc. You know the things that really predict crime.

How many people are dying due to knife crime in Britain? Nevermind, I found it.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 09:57:28 PM  

Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.


Oh no, a knife! That guy may be able to kill... one person! Two on a good day!
 
2019-04-15 10:07:55 PM  

maxandgrinch: Give half motorcycles and the other half scooters, and let 'em sort it out.


The Brits would still manage to fark it all up

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 10:12:33 PM  

Trocadero: TomTudbury: Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!

[thetruthaboutguns.com image 640x459]

[i.imgur.com image 850x753]


Mine is more portable.

Although, I really don't know how efficient a laser sight on a Derringer would be.

*Zip* gotcha covered!

Then the slug veers left.
 
2019-04-15 10:17:56 PM  
If I know any British history, the crime rates are lower in 2019 than they were in 1888 or 1919, even.

For example, in the 1950s, there were one eighth as many prostitutes in London as Mayhey boumnd in the 1850s. One eighth. Of course in the 1950s, women started giving it away for free, but hey, one eighth is nothing to scoff at.

The murder rates in Glasgow and Edinburgh make Detroit, Chicago and other American hives of villany look like Shangri-La on a fast day.
 
2019-04-15 10:18:27 PM  
*Murder rates in the 1830's I mean.
 
2019-04-15 10:19:04 PM  
The world is actually becoming vastly safer, healthier and more law-abiding all the time unless you count Republicans and Tories.
 
2019-04-15 10:19:45 PM  
I don't think they can succeed, but they should at least take a stab at it.
 
2019-04-15 10:20:10 PM  

iaazathot: Is there any evidence that guns reduce knife crime. I mean after you control for rural vs. urban, poverty, etc. You know the things that really predict crime.

How many people are dying due to knife crime in Britain? Nevermind, I found it.

[img.fark.net image 592x367]


So Tuesday afternoon in Georgetown, DC, then?
 
2019-04-15 10:21:38 PM  
Listen here Jack...
 
2019-04-15 10:23:51 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 10:38:28 PM  
Ooh, I wonder how many e's or i's will have u,laughs in this article. My guess is 11 combined.
 
2019-04-15 10:39:30 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 10:41:09 PM  

Jabberwookiee: What you need is a gun that shoots knives but you have to buy the DLC.


Specifically, the Tiny Tina DLC for BL2. Because Mr Torgue Said So. https://borderlands.fandom.com/wi​ki/SW​ORDSPLOSION!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wezzj​7​enrYE
 
2019-04-15 11:09:54 PM  
Duh.. All you need is more good guys with knives..
 
2019-04-15 11:17:24 PM  

Jabberwookiee: What you need is a gun that shoots knives but you have to buy the DLC.


What about dogs with mouths full of bees, and when they bark they shoot bees at you?
 
2019-04-15 11:27:45 PM  

Trocadero: TomTudbury: Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!

[thetruthaboutguns.com image 640x459]

[i.imgur.com image 850x753]


/k in a nutshell.
 
2019-04-15 11:37:07 PM  
Oh look, yet another Fark headline asking a question to which the answer is, "no".
 
2019-04-15 11:45:33 PM  
It's a lesson we've had to learn over and over again for centuries: When you disarm the powerless, you embolden those who would prey on them.
 
2019-04-15 11:50:16 PM  
Blue Öyster Cult said it best, "Don't Fear the Ripper...."
 
2019-04-16 12:06:27 AM  

Trocadero: TomTudbury: Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!

[thetruthaboutguns.com image 640x459]

[i.imgur.com image 850x753]


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-16 12:36:46 AM  

Next week's Tom Sawyer: It's a lesson we've had to learn over and over again for centuries: When you disarm the powerless, you embolden those who would prey on them.


You think powerful people are stabbing London's disarmed powerless? London's elite may not be puritans, but there's no evidence that they're behind the rise in violent crime. The article makes it sound like it's the same sort of violent crime we have in the US: mostly less wealthy, less educated people hurting one another. It also doesn't mention anyone being disarmed except at "knife arches" in front of a couple nightclubs, and the article's main source said knives are involved in only 20% of the violent crime victims he sees. I'm really mystified how you arrived at your "lesson" from the article.
 
2019-04-16 12:54:43 AM  
It's almost as if attacking an issue from the supply side without dealing with the demand side doesn't fix the problem.

Spend more time on why people are murdering each other and less on the how and the former will reduce the latter.
 
2019-04-16 01:01:16 AM  

T Baggins: It also doesn't mention anyone being disarmed except at "knife arches"


Well, it's a relief that sort of thing isn't happening then, I suppose

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2019-04-16 01:05:09 AM  
you may wish caution if you are taking notes though

preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2019-04-16 01:15:39 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-16 01:23:20 AM  

Trocadero: TomTudbury: Declassify Issue: Epicedion: Simple, give everyone guns and then you won't have to worry about knives much anymore.

Guns with bayonets were the days - one or the other, World!

[thetruthaboutguns.com image 640x459]

[i.imgur.com image 850x753]


Nice bazookas.
 
2019-04-16 01:53:30 AM  
In January, two twenty-one-year-old rappers, Skengdo and A.M., were given nine-month suspended jail sentences for performing a song whose lyrics contravened a court order banning rhymes that describe "intrusions on to any other gang or group's perceived territory," or certain London postcodes.

Exhibit 1,623,482 for "Why to have a First Amendment."
 
2019-04-16 01:54:17 AM  
"People from black, Asian, and minority ethnic (BAME) communities, which represent 43% of London's population, made up half of all knife crime victims and offenders..."

They won't single out 'Muslims', but I will.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/uk/uk-​k​nife-crime-graphics-gbr-intl/index.htm​l

https://www.economist.com/britain/201​9​/03/07/fatal-stabbings-are-at-record-l​evels-in-britain-why
 
2019-04-16 02:11:05 AM  

Krieghund: maxandgrinch: Give half motorcycles and the other half scooters, and let 'em sort it out.

The Brits would still manage to fark it all up

[i.pinimg.com image 500x573]


You never know, we could get another halfway decent rock opera out it.
 
2019-04-16 03:51:09 AM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: "People from black, Asian, and minority ethnic (BAME) communities, which represent 43% of London's population, made up half of all knife crime victims and offenders..."

They won't single out 'Muslims', but I will.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/uk/uk-k​nife-crime-graphics-gbr-intl/index.htm​l

https://www.economist.com/britain/2019​/03/07/fatal-stabbings-are-at-record-l​evels-in-britain-why


Well, that is awfully enlightened of you.

Care to provide any more sources, perhaps ones that actually give any reason to "single out 'Muslims'"?

/*eyeroll*
 
2019-04-16 05:58:01 AM  
Here's a quick statistical breakdown:
There were according to The Metropolitan Police 132 homicides in London in 2018 a number too low to gain really accurate statistical data when it comes to race except in extremes; and a difference from 43% population to 50% involvement in stabbings (as either stabber or stabbee) is simply not enough to conclusively say something is off. It hints that there might be something, but far more likely it follows the good old societal lines where if you're poor you're more likely to be involved in an attack.

Also, with 132 murders and 8.1 million inhabitants that's a murder rate of 1.63, which would mean that if London was in the US it would be the fifth safest city with more than 100,000 inhabitants, barely beating out Santa Clarita, CA with its 1.85

You're twice as likely to be murdered if you live in Honolulu as you do if you live in London.

Just to have a comparison.
So that's a city with 43% immigrant population that is way, way, WAY safer than any city you're living in. Unless you live in Norway; or Irvvine (CA), Chula Vista(CA), Fremont(CA) or Boise(ID).


BolshyGreatYarblocks: "People from black, Asian, and minority ethnic (BAME) communities, which represent 43% of London's population, made up half of all knife crime victims and offenders..."

They won't single out 'Muslims', but I will.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/uk/uk-k​nife-crime-graphics-gbr-intl/index.htm​l

https://www.economist.com/britain/2019​/03/07/fatal-stabbings-are-at-record-l​evels-in-britain-why

 
2019-04-16 06:16:03 AM  

T Baggins: Next week's Tom Sawyer: It's a lesson we've had to learn over and over again for centuries: When you disarm the powerless, you embolden those who would prey on them.

You think powerful people are stabbing London's disarmed powerless? London's elite may not be puritans, but there's no evidence that they're behind the rise in violent crime. The article makes it sound like it's the same sort of violent crime we have in the US: mostly less wealthy, less educated people hurting one another. It also doesn't mention anyone being disarmed except at "knife arches" in front of a couple nightclubs, and the article's main source said knives are involved in only 20% of the violent crime victims he sees. I'm really mystified how you arrived at your "lesson" from the article.


I never said the powerful or elite are the ones doing stabbing. They're simply the ones passing laws to ensure poor victims cannot protect themselves, and then patting themselves on the back for doing something about the crime.

And if you're not aware of the extraordinary powers being given to police there to disarm people (think stop and frisk on steroids), then you might want to read up on it.
 
KIA
2019-04-16 06:51:06 AM  

iaazathot: Is there any evidence that guns reduce knife crime. I mean after you control for rural vs. urban, poverty, etc. You know the things that really predict crime.

How many people are dying due to knife crime in Britain? Nevermind, I found it.

[img.fark.net image 592x367]


You start by asking about knife crime but then change only to knife homicides.  Knife crime, according to Bolshy's link above https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/05/​uk/uk-k​nife-crime-graphics-gbr-intl/index.htm​l in London is at a rate of 167 per 100,000 - 14,723 in the 12 months prior to March 2018 or over 1000 a month.
 
2019-04-16 07:33:12 AM  

Next week's Tom Sawyer: I never said the powerful or elite are the ones doing stabbing. They're simply the ones passing laws to ensure poor victims cannot protect themselves, and then patting themselves on the back for doing something about the crime.


Poor people are not supposed to need to protect themselves. That is what cops are supposed to be there to do. In an equal society the poor have just the same rights as the rich to protection.
 
2019-04-16 07:33:44 AM  

jjorsett: In January, two twenty-one-year-old rappers, Skengdo and A.M., were given nine-month suspended jail sentences for performing a song whose lyrics contravened a court order banning rhymes that describe "intrusions on to any other gang or group's perceived territory," or certain London postcodes.

Exhibit 1,623,482 for "Why to have a First Amendment."


[Chorus]
Attempted?
Should've been a murder
How you gonna run with your burner?
How you-how you gonna run with your burner?
We're active (boop, boop, boop)
Let's go halves on a burger (halves)
Big MAC-10, can I get fries?

/boop boop boop
 
2019-04-16 07:59:09 AM  

wickedragon: Next week's Tom Sawyer: I never said the powerful or elite are the ones doing stabbing. They're simply the ones passing laws to ensure poor victims cannot protect themselves, and then patting themselves on the back for doing something about the crime.

Poor people are not supposed to need to protect themselves. That is what cops are supposed to be there to do. In an equal society the poor have just the same rights as the rich to protection.


The poor do have the same right to protection as the rich: None. This is true in the United States (see: Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) as well as in the UK (see: Michael and Others v South Wales Police and Another CA [2012] EWCA Civ 981). In neither country do the police have a duty to protect you.

Which means what separates the rich from the poor are: the rich people have the means to live in areas where there is low crime, can hire private security (including off duty police officers) when needed, and can use private transportation to get where they are going; making it highly unlikely they will ever need to defend themselves.

And yet, the rich have the audacity to tell people without these privileges to go out into the world without so much as a knife to defend themselves against a would-be mugger or rapist? It's one of the most disgusting examples of class arrogance imaginable.
 
2019-04-16 09:05:11 AM  
Homicides per million inhabitants:

Capital city of the UK: 16
Capital city of the US: 205

St Louis, 593; Baltimore, 512; Detroit, 452; New Orleans 445

New York, "America's safest city", 34

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_​United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
 
2019-04-16 09:43:46 AM  

Next week's Tom Sawyer: The poor do have the same right to protection as the rich: None. This is true in the United States (see: Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) as well as in the UK (see: Michael and Others v South Wales Police and Another CA [2012] EWCA Civ 981). In neither country do the police have a duty to protect you.


I've read the Warren case previously and found the conclusion abhorrent.
I read the Michael and Others case now, and I can't say that the conclusion seems to be the same. In the Warren case it's clearly stated that the police have no obligation to risk their own safety to help you. In the Michael and Others it's only really stated that should the police fail to protect you by arresting a perp before he commits a crime when they should reasonably know that a crime is imminent that they aren't personally liable for their failing to do so.
In one case (Warren) the police are watching an attack happening and take no action, in the other they have had a phone call about someone making a threat and fail to arrest the person before he makes good on those threats.

In both cases the police are "Not good", but the Michael and Others case can hardly be read as the police having no obligation to protect you from harm they can reasonably protect you from; but rather that the police should not be required to be omniscient on the threat of personal liability.
 
2019-04-16 09:56:51 AM  

Sidoko: Homicides per million inhabitants:

Capital city of the UK: 16
Capital city of the US: 205

St Louis, 593; Baltimore, 512; Detroit, 452; New Orleans 445

New York, "America's safest city", 34

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_​United_States_cities_by_crime_rate


Due to differences in reporting standards, crime rates cannot be directly compared between the US and the UK. The numbers change too much if you swap standards.
 
2019-04-16 09:58:12 AM  
Clearly more laws are needed to end this scourge.  No citizen has need to carry a knife on their person when outside the home.
 
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