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(Cyprus Mail)   Greece tells UK it wants to take its marbles and go home   (cyprus-mail.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Parthenon, national museum, British diplomat, British Museum, Greece's president, Acropolis Museum, Acropolis of Athens, Elgin Marbles  
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3125 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2019 at 5:57 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2019-04-15 06:04:35 PM  
I always figured that Greece had lost it's marbles.
 
2019-04-15 06:06:47 PM  
This will never happen. Save your breath.

I've seen these marbles in the British Museum and the feeling is astonishing. You're a mote on the timeline of history.
 
2019-04-15 06:11:08 PM  

sunderland56: I always figured that Greece had lost it's marbles.


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2019-04-15 06:11:19 PM  
In centuries past England was full of kleptomaniacs.
 
2019-04-15 06:12:38 PM  
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2019-04-15 06:14:55 PM  
These sculptures were taken way back in the days of the Ottoman Empire, which is now just a footnote in history.
 
2019-04-15 06:17:13 PM  

cyberspacedout: These sculptures were taken way back in the days of the Ottoman Empire, which is now just a footnote in history.


The Ottoman Empire, full of furniture for some reason.
 
2019-04-15 06:17:17 PM  
Get Greece to commission some replicas out of the same kind of stone, split the cost then return the originals.

/historical artifacts probably should be returned to the country they are from. Make a copy if you want a cool museum exhibit.
 
2019-04-15 06:18:38 PM  
it seems obvious that they need to return these marbles -- the Turks never had the right to sell them -- but there are other cases where it's not so clear, and they may be concerned about precedent.

Athens has a nice museum (now) and is a safe place to visit, modulo, perhaps, some food poisoning; but it gets different when you think about stuff plundered from, say, Egypt, which is unsafe to visit and whose national museum is a dirty warehouse. And the Assyrian reliefs from Nineveh would have been destroyed by ISIS by now, had they not been safely tucked away in London, where anyone can visit them for free. So yeah it'd be fair for the British to return the Elgin marbles. But ironically it's better for humanity if they keep a lot of the stuff that they stole.
 
2019-04-15 06:20:48 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Get Greece to commission some replicas out of the same kind of stone, split the cost then return the originals.

/historical artifacts probably should be returned to the country they are from. Make a copy if you want a cool museum exhibit.


Why should lawfully sold antiquities be different from people and resources exported from an occupied country?
 
2019-04-15 06:23:33 PM  

cyberspacedout: These sculptures were taken way back in the days of the Ottoman Empire, which is now just a footnote in history.


Only a hundred years later. Of course, the world is still dealing with the fallout of their fall and the lazy diplomacy of the Allies.
 
2019-04-15 06:32:57 PM  

gaslight: I've seen these marbles in the British Museum and the feeling is astonishing.


Astonishing? It's bloody depressing. They're in a gloomy, dismal hall, completely out of context. There is absolutely no excuse for our keeping them - we should hand them back at once, with fulsome apologies and a cheque to cover the cost of the Athens museum.
 
2019-04-15 06:34:25 PM  

SloppyFrenchKisser: In centuries past England was full of kleptomaniacs.


A few weeks ago I asked a child of my acquaintance if she'd like to visit the British Museum. "That's the big building full of stolen stuff, isn't it?" she replied. Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings ...
 
M-G
2019-04-15 06:35:12 PM  

gaslight: This will never happen. Save your breath.

I've seen these marbles in the British Museum and the feeling is astonishing. You're a mote on the timeline of history.


When you're in Greece, it all starts to get boring after a while.  There are only so many sculptures or pieces of column you can look at.
 
2019-04-15 06:42:09 PM  

AlgaeRancher: /historical artifacts probably should be returned to the country they are from. Make a copy if you want a cool museum exhibit.


madgonad: Why should lawfully sold antiquities be different from people and resources exported from an occupied country?


You're replying to a post suggesting that they be treated the same. I'd have thought that the word "lawful" made a difference, thought we'd have to accept that the laws of occupying powers don't count.
 
2019-04-15 06:43:33 PM  

M-G: When you're in Greece, it all starts to get boring after a while. There are only so many sculptures or pieces of column you can look at.


And the Louvre is just one bloody painting after another. As for Beethoven, when you've heard one violin playing a note you've heard them all.
 
2019-04-15 06:51:37 PM  

orbister: AlgaeRancher: /historical artifacts probably should be returned to the country they are from. Make a copy if you want a cool museum exhibit.

madgonad: Why should lawfully sold antiquities be different from people and resources exported from an occupied country?

You're replying to a post suggesting that they be treated the same. I'd have thought that the word "lawful" made a difference, thought we'd have to accept that the laws of occupying powers don't count.


Occupying another country is not cool.

Occupying another country and selling or even buying their stuff is just being a Jerk.
 
2019-04-15 06:56:42 PM  

AlgaeRancher: orbister: AlgaeRancher: /historical artifacts probably should be returned to the country they are from. Make a copy if you want a cool museum exhibit.

madgonad: Why should lawfully sold antiquities be different from people and resources exported from an occupied country?

You're replying to a post suggesting that they be treated the same. I'd have thought that the word "lawful" made a difference, thought we'd have to accept that the laws of occupying powers don't count.

Occupying another country is not cool.

Occupying another country and selling or even buying their stuff is just being a Jerk.


And neither of those things is unlawful. In fact, once you successfully conquer something, you get to make the rules, that's why conquering was so damn appealing for so long. Oh, and for no reason whatsoever...

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2019-04-15 07:14:03 PM  
I don't remember being in a British prison, but I was pretty drunk.
 
2019-04-15 07:16:18 PM  
Greece would probably just take them to a pawn shop given their fiscal discipline.
 
2019-04-15 07:30:15 PM  
<itbelongsinamuseum.jpg>
 
2019-04-15 08:34:28 PM  
The Brit government has to be one of the biggest hypocrites in history considering they demand people live by the law, and yet they have an entire museum full of stolen artifacts from assorted countries that they refuse to return.
 
2019-04-15 08:42:59 PM  
Even amongst the British, the British Museum are referred to as grave robbers. Greece is an independant, stable democracy now, it really is time for the marbles to be displayed in the place they were meant to belong.

The Greeks don't help their own cause, though. If they accepted in principle that Elgin had rescued them from mistreatment by Turkish invaders that treated them as nothing more than raw material, they might be able to arrange a return. Instead, all they do is fling insults and guarantee no cooperation will be forthcoming.

The marbles are regularly loaned out to museums around the world, the only place than can never exhibit them is Greece. Agree to recognise the BM's right of ownership in principle and I'm sure a "long-term loan" could be agreed.
 
2019-04-15 09:06:46 PM  
Why would you want them? They're all broken.
 
2019-04-15 09:29:01 PM  

orbister: SloppyFrenchKisser: In centuries past England was full of kleptomaniacs.

A few weeks ago I asked a child of my acquaintance if she'd like to visit the British Museum. "That's the big building full of stolen stuff, isn't it?" she replied. Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings ...


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2019-04-15 09:55:07 PM  
Oh, they've been saying that for two hundred years now!
 
2019-04-15 09:59:32 PM  
cyberspacedout: These sculptures were taken way back in the days of the Ottoman Empire, which is now just a footnoterest in history.
 
2019-04-16 01:42:48 AM  
Yes, return them to Greece so their government can have them "accidentally" stolen and sold on the black market, by all means.
 
2019-04-16 03:49:33 AM  

BarryJV: The marbles are regularly loaned out to museums around the world


One statue has been loaned out once, to the Hermitage.
 
2019-04-16 05:26:21 AM  

gaslight: This will never happen. Save your breath.

I've seen these marbles in the British Museum and the feeling is astonishing. You're a mote on the timeline of history.


If Britain wants a trade deal with the EU post-Brexit, there will be a long shopping list of requirements by the EU27 otherwise it'll be vetoed.

To be frank - the Elgin marbles are the most minuscule item on that shopping list
 
2019-04-16 10:48:13 AM  

Gordon Bennett: cyberspacedout: These sculptures were taken way back in the days of the Ottoman Empire, which is now just a footnoterest in history.


I laughed into a coughing fit and then got really dizzy.
It shouldn't have been that funny, but thanks.
 
2019-04-16 01:42:27 PM  
Speaking from 4 years of archeological training here - The UK's refusal to return the marbles and Egyptian artifacts was historically based on the fact that Greece did not have the museum technology to protect them as well as the UK can. That and the fact that political turmoil with extremists who might destroy them is still very possible in both countries. They could easily be destroyed in a skirmish or be targeted. I know extremists are in London too, no need to quibble about that, but the UK has a point. (I absolutely applaud the heroic Egyptians who made a human chain around the Cairo Museum in the recent turmoil to protect the artifacts, but the fact that they had to illustrates my point.)

I think, personally, now that Greece has a very up to date museum, that they should be returned ONLY if there are solid protocols in place to protect them from damage by fire or military action. In Egypt, sadly, as hard as they do try, they cannot. I have to say that my parents visited the Cairo museum a few years ago they saw mummy cases piled up on the floor and mummies out where they could deteriorate. They have so many thousands of artifacts that they cannot take care it all. Priceless history just out in the air and piled up everywhere. Even though the items were obtained under what we now condemn as the superior attitude that was a part of British Colonialism, hopefully more enlightened now, it should still be very important to preserve all the artifacts where there is absolute respect for the history they hold worldwide.
 
2019-04-16 02:04:00 PM  

Breaker Breaker: Speaking from 4 years of archeological training here - The UK's refusal to return the marbles and Egyptian artifacts was historically based on the fact that Greece did not have the museum technology to protect them as well as the UK can.


British "protection" meant exposing them to London's polluted air for a century and then seriously damaging them by scraping the surfaces off in the 30's in an attempt to make them look whiter. They were originally painted.
 
2019-04-16 05:20:25 PM  

orbister: gaslight: I've seen these marbles in the British Museum and the feeling is astonishing.

Astonishing? It's bloody depressing. They're in a gloomy, dismal hall, completely out of context.

Gloomy dismal hall? The room is astonishingly beautiful.

There is absolutely no excuse for our keeping them - we should hand them back at once, with fulsome apologies and a cheque to cover the cost of the Athens museum.
Hahaha. Like the British government has any money.
 
2019-04-17 06:03:27 AM  

gaslight: Gloomy dismal hall? The room is astonishingly beautiful.


The marbles themselves are beautiful, but they are display in a drab grey room:

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