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(Task and Purpose)   Secretary of the Army finally clarifies that no, soldiers on exercise runs don't have to wear bright yellow reflective safety belts in broad daylight on closed training courses. Hero tag sends Obvious tag to do KP duty   (taskandpurpose.com) divider line
    More: Hero, United States Marine Corps, Flag of the United States, Soldier, Police car, Laguna Beach, California, Police, In Broad Daylight, Commandant of the Marine Corps  
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1389 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Apr 2019 at 4:15 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2019-04-14 11:32:36 PM  
That only took 20 years.
 
2019-04-15 12:02:29 AM  
Up next, some soldier gets hit by a car while out jogging on the road in broad daylight.
 
2019-04-15 02:07:05 AM  
But without my PT belt, I am not invincible.  This is how soldiers die!  PT saved my life in Afghanistan!

(/sarcasm)

Now if they could turn their attention to the real problem, which is saying people like me can't serve in the Army, despite grandfathering me in.  That'd be great.
 
2019-04-15 04:36:14 AM  
Oh lawd, CSMs around the force are gonna lose their damned minds.
 
2019-04-15 04:36:55 AM  
But also: January 14, 2019 at 05:42 PM

Old news is so exciting.
 
2019-04-15 06:42:54 AM  
Sergeant Major says that it's part of the unit PT uniform, and this merely suoplements the minimum set by the Army.  Now put your damned PT belts on.  You never know when an Airman with a atray zamboni might appear.
 
2019-04-15 07:00:42 AM  
They should wear bright yellow reflective symbols if they're transgender, though.  Some way of telling them apart would be nice.  There is absolutely no historical precedent for this leading to anything bad.  Pinky swear.

/ Poe's Law?
 
2019-04-15 07:14:55 AM  
Hey.  I still have my reflective yellow armband we used to have to wear marching from the barracks to the school building on Fort Devens in the winter months, because it was dark and the column of 100 or so soldiers might not be seen by someone driving, since we blended in with the trees and shiat.

That was 34 years ago?  Crap.

/Generally marched back in time for lunch.
//Then PT, and extra training.
 
2019-04-15 07:16:30 AM  

dragonchild: They should wear bright yellow reflective symbols if they're transgender, though.  Some way of telling them apart would be nice.  There is absolutely no historical precedent for this leading to anything bad.  Pinky swear.

/ Poe's Law?


Not enough vinegar for Poe Slaw.  More like Poe Salad.
 
2019-04-15 07:16:46 AM  
The Army's obsession with the reflective belt is insane.  This is a moment of sanity that I'm sure will be undone by the next guy to sit in that office.

The real reason behind it is that when accidents happen, suddenly leadership is all about "how can we prevent it from happening again" or "what did you do to prevent it?". . .and making Soldiers wear a reflective belt is the stock answer to preventing accidents.

You knew it was insane when 10+ years ago you had people on FOB's in Iraq having to wear them and only troops out on patrols could take them off.  You're in a combat zone, going around wearing bright colored reflective equipment "for safety".  Telling troops they can't enter the chow hall unless they are wearing a brightly colored reflective belt was the peak of absurdity.  That's how stupid it was.

Or, to illustrate:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 07:48:51 AM  
Have the Marines had to deal with this sort of crap since I've been out? '86~90 I never saw a reflective belt or arm band. There might have been some vests worn by a handful of people on a long hump, but not on marches that were held entirely on base or in training areas (NTA in Okinawa comes to mind, and fark Osprey Hill)
 
2019-04-15 07:53:39 AM  

Silverstaff: The Army's obsession with the reflective belt is insane.  This is a moment of sanity that I'm sure will be undone by the next guy to sit in that office.

The real reason behind it is that when accidents happen, suddenly leadership is all about "how can we prevent it from happening again" or "what did you do to prevent it?". . .and making Soldiers wear a reflective belt is the stock answer to preventing accidents.

You knew it was insane when 10+ years ago you had people on FOB's in Iraq having to wear them and only troops out on patrols could take them off.  You're in a combat zone, going around wearing bright colored reflective equipment "for safety".  Telling troops they can't enter the chow hall unless they are wearing a brightly colored reflective belt was the peak of absurdity.  That's how stupid it was.

Or, to illustrate:

[img.fark.net image 500x321]


That's awesome. Thanks! Heh...
 
2019-04-15 08:08:37 AM  

dittybopper: Hey.  I still have my reflective yellow armband we used to have to wear marching from the barracks to the school building on Fort Devens in the winter months, because it was dark and the column of 100 or so soldiers might not be seen by someone driving, since we blended in with the trees and shiat.

That was 34 years ago?  Crap.

/Generally marched back in time for lunch.
//Then PT, and extra training.


Damn, I know the Army is serious about its marching, but making you time travel to get lunch?
 
2019-04-15 08:57:09 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 09:05:33 AM  
When I read the headline, I assumed that the secretary was publicly debunking a myth, that somehow civilians thought that the army was so stupid that they had soldiers wearing reflectors and he was just setting them straight. But no, it's a real thing. This truly is the worst timeline.
 
2019-04-15 09:18:38 AM  

Boojum2k: dittybopper: Hey.  I still have my reflective yellow armband we used to have to wear marching from the barracks to the school building on Fort Devens in the winter months, because it was dark and the column of 100 or so soldiers might not be seen by someone driving, since we blended in with the trees and shiat.

That was 34 years ago?  Crap.

/Generally marched back in time for lunch.
//Then PT, and extra training.

Damn, I know the Army is serious about its marching, but making you time travel to get lunch?


Yeah, well, we had to double-time it.
 
2019-04-15 09:21:34 AM  
It's been a long time since I needed base/post stickers. Does Uncle Sam still require motorcycle riders to wear additional reflective gear?

In the 1990s we could get away with a reflective loop worn at an angle across the body, like a sash. I remember hearing something about moving to a full hi-viz vest but got out before that became a thing (if it ever did).
 
2019-04-15 09:24:09 AM  

006andahalf: You never know when an Airman with a atray zamboni might appear.


That's hardly a reasonable example.

An Airman would never be caught in anything as slow, ugly, and useful as a zamboni.
 
2019-04-15 09:25:46 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: It's been a long time since I needed base/post stickers. Does Uncle Sam still require motorcycle riders to wear additional reflective gear?

In the 1990s we could get away with a reflective loop worn at an angle across the body, like a sash. I remember hearing something about moving to a full hi-viz vest but got out before that became a thing (if it ever did).


When I was stationed in Hawaii back in the 1980's, motorcycle riders were required to wear a full reflective vest.
 
2019-04-15 09:41:19 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: It's been a long time since I needed base/post stickers. Does Uncle Sam still require motorcycle riders to wear additional reflective gear?

In the 1990s we could get away with a reflective loop worn at an angle across the body, like a sash. I remember hearing something about moving to a full hi-viz vest but got out before that became a thing (if it ever did).


Unless they changed it very recently, yes.  I wasn't a motorcycle rider, but I always saw them in full reflective vest.

They got rid of those base/post stickers for windshields though a bit over a decade ago, they decided having every car that's supposed to be on a military base having a decal on the windshield that said what post it goes to and the rank of the normal occupant was a huge OPSEC issue.
 
2019-04-15 09:44:41 AM  
Hardy har har!

There are a great many things to miss about the Army, primarily being around people with the mindset that there is nothing they can't do if they keep going. There are also, unfortunately, a great many things to not miss.

LesserEvil: Have the Marines had to deal with this sort of crap since I've been out? '86~90 I never saw a reflective belt or arm band. There might have been some vests worn by a handful of people on a long hump, but not on marches that were held entirely on base or in training areas (NTA in Okinawa comes to mind, and fark Osprey Hill)


We recentlyish had two of our kids at work go through Parris Island, when they came back I deliberately made a habit of touching my face and putting my hands in my pockets in front of them. They were not amused at my shenanigans, rants about the stupidity of certain practices ensued.
 
2019-04-15 09:47:33 AM  

This text is now purple: 006andahalf: You never know when an Airman with a atray zamboni might appear.

That's hardly a reasonable example.

An Airman would never be caught in anything as slow, ugly, and useful as a zamboni. doing PT.


FTFY
 
2019-04-15 10:03:50 AM  

Silverstaff: Unless they changed it very recently, yes. I wasn't a motorcycle rider, but I always saw them in full reflective vest.

They got rid of those base/post stickers for windshields though a bit over a decade ago, they decided having every car that's supposed to be on a military base having a decal on the windshield that said what post it goes to and the rank of the normal occupant was a huge OPSEC issue.



I guess the hi-viz pendulum was swinging and I got lucky with the timing. The vest would have been a PITA.

I recall (1990s) there being a rectangular blue and white DoD numbered sticker, with a blue border for enlisted and a red border for officers. Then there could be a sticker below that with the base/post name, and a couple smaller stickers (one on either side) to indicate the month and year of expiration.

Or I just could have found a picture. This is from 2013, and is mostly similar to what I remember. It's from an article announcing that the windshield stickers were going away. :-)

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 10:06:56 AM  

WoodyHayes: We recentlyish had two of our kids at work go through Parris Island, when they came back I deliberately made a habit of touching my face and putting my hands in my pockets in front of them. They were not amused at my shenanigans, rants about the stupidity of certain practices ensued.


On behalf of the great unwashed - huh?
/ Ignorant civilian here
// ROTC my freshman year was as close as I ever got
/// I was amazed by the number of people who thought they had the right to tell me what to do
 
2019-04-15 10:13:14 AM  

doctorguilty: WoodyHayes: We recentlyish had two of our kids at work go through Parris Island, when they came back I deliberately made a habit of touching my face and putting my hands in my pockets in front of them. They were not amused at my shenanigans, rants about the stupidity of certain practices ensued.

On behalf of the great unwashed - huh?
/ Ignorant civilian here



Military and Air Force people in uniform generally aren't supposed to stand or walk around with their hands in their pockets.

I don't know what the deal is with the face touching.
 
2019-04-15 10:15:59 AM  

WoodyHayes: This text is now purple: 006andahalf: You never know when an Airman with a atray zamboni might appear.

That's hardly a reasonable example.

An Airman would never be caught in anything as slow, ugly, and useful as a zamboni. doing PT.

FTFY


I assumed the argument was about real soldiers being accosted by a renegade zamboni operator.
 
2019-04-15 10:41:05 AM  
USAF Basic Training February 1976.  At night we had to flashlights with an orange cone on the end.  Lackland Lasers they were called.
 
2019-04-15 10:49:56 AM  
However, the soldiers have to carry a caption board stating that they're on exercise runs in broad daylight on closed training courses, and to not try this at home.
 
2019-04-15 11:10:58 AM  

subsetzero: USAF Basic Training February 1976.  At night we had to flashlights with an orange cone on the end.  Lackland Lasers they were called.


We had to have those in Army Basic Training in early 2010.

More specifically, in a formation run we had to have each soldier wearing a reflective belt like it was a sash (right shoulder to left hip), and on the corners of each running formation we had our "turn signals" who were in full reflective vest and orange cone lights.

This is so we could have our morning 6:15 run on a road course on-post that was closed from 6 AM to 8 AM as a designated PT route.  Ran that route three times a week for 8 weeks, never once saw a car on the route, but we were sure as heck prepared to warn any random car that found its way onto that closed road that the ~200 troop company that was running through was there, in case they didn't see us.
 
2019-04-15 11:16:27 AM  

subsetzero: USAF Basic Training February 1976.  At night we had to flashlights with an orange cone on the end.  Lackland Lasers they were called.


They were still in use in 1990.
 
2019-04-15 11:21:52 AM  

dittybopper: Hey.  I still have my reflective yellow armband we used to have to wear marching from the barracks to the school building on Fort Devens in the winter months, because it was dark and the column of 100 or so soldiers might not be seen by someone driving, since we blended in with the trees and shiat.

That was 34 years ago?  Crap.

/Generally marched back in time for lunch.
//Then PT, and extra training.


The road guards for each platoon had to wear a reflective orange vest when I went through basic at Ft Mac 30 years ago (also, crap!).

I was lucky to never have to be a road guard, as I was in 2nd squad.

/miss it some days
//then I look at the paycheck, and the fact that I can tell my manager things I could never say to an officer (he's a retired Marine Lt. Col), and feel better
///three slashies for DD-214
 
2019-04-15 11:40:08 AM  

Twonk: dittybopper: Hey.  I still have my reflective yellow armband we used to have to wear marching from the barracks to the school building on Fort Devens in the winter months, because it was dark and the column of 100 or so soldiers might not be seen by someone driving, since we blended in with the trees and shiat.

That was 34 years ago?  Crap.

/Generally marched back in time for lunch.
//Then PT, and extra training.

The road guards for each platoon had to wear a reflective orange vest when I went through basic at Ft Mac 30 years ago (also, crap!).

I was lucky to never have to be a road guard, as I was in 2nd squad.

/miss it some days
//then I look at the paycheck, and the fact that I can tell my manager things I could never say to an officer (he's a retired Marine Lt. Col), and feel better
///three slashies for DD-214


When I was in from 96-05, the road guards still had the full vest and the flashlights with cones when it was dark in the mornings.

The PT belt thing had just gotten started during that time, and I'm sad to see it got worse. We just had to have it on anytime we were in our PT uniform. As someone else mentioned, even though it's no longer Army wide policy, division or unit commanders or CSM's can always just say "It supplements the required uniform" and require it anyways.

Also during that time, folks on motorcycles had to wear a full reflective vest on post.
 
2019-04-15 11:52:08 AM  

propasaurus: Up next, some soldier gets hit by a car while out jogging on the road in broad daylight.


Yep, and then they'll come back.

They aren't that big of a deal.  Just wear the stupid things.

Boojum2k: subsetzero: USAF Basic Training February 1976.  At night we had to flashlights with an orange cone on the end.  Lackland Lasers they were called.

They were still in use in 1990.


In use in TRADOC for the Army in the early/mid 2000s as well.
 
2019-04-15 12:02:36 PM  

doctorguilty: WoodyHayes: We recentlyish had two of our kids at work go through Parris Island, when they came back I deliberately made a habit of touching my face and putting my hands in my pockets in front of them. They were not amused at my shenanigans, rants about the stupidity of certain practices ensued.

On behalf of the great unwashed - huh?
/ Ignorant civilian here
// ROTC my freshman year was as close as I ever got
/// I was amazed by the number of people who thought they had the right to tell me what to do


Ooooooooh, ROTC? ROTC story, coming right up!

This was after I got out. It was pouring something fierce, really hard. Walls of water are being shot up on sidewalks from every car and truck out there. I'm down on campus with perhaps thirty minutes to kill and I see some poor bastard walking on the sidewalk, I can tell it is a ROTC uniform. The ROTC "Class A," whatever their name is for the purdy stuff.

Side note: I'm sure ROTC "Class A" uniforms differ per branch but I'm not sure how to identify in what ways. It was raining pretty damn hard, even if I knew how to tell the difference I probably wasn't close enough anyways.

So I'm driving by and I see this fellow, nobody is behind me so I stopped.

Me: "ROTC?"

Him: "Yeah."

Me: "Army?"

Him : "No, Air Force."

I laughed my ass off and put my window back up before driving off. If he was Navy ROTC I'm pretty sure I would have picked him up and dropped him off at his destination. Obviously I have no idea what he thought of the matter, but somewhere across this great country I hope there is some Air Force occifer who has a hatred of the Army that I helped contribute to.

Englebert Slaptyback: doctorguilty: WoodyHayes: We recentlyish had two of our kids at work go through Parris Island, when they came back I deliberately made a habit of touching my face and putting my hands in my pockets in front of them. They were not amused at my shenanigans, rants about the stupidity of certain practices ensued.

On behalf of the great unwashed - huh?
/ Ignorant civilian here


Military and Air Force people in uniform generally aren't supposed to stand or walk around with their hands in their pockets.

I don't know what the deal is with the face touching.


I hadn't heard the no face touching thing either outside of a different one of our work kids who joined up and is now a Drill Instructor out on the west coast. I don't remember if he said it was an actual policy or just something that is informally enforced at the discretion of a DI with a certain pet peeve but he told me to do it in front of our kids, that it would probably make them go bonkers and he was right. It was something about not getting germs in your eyes, that you weren't supposed to touch your face.

Okay, fine I suppose, that is technically right but in the real world who cares as long as you're not picking up poop and smearing it in your eyes. It is probably more about instilling personal discipline which I get, though that seems like a weird vehicle to help get there at first glance but kind of makes sense if the end goal is kept in mind.
 
2019-04-15 12:19:21 PM  

WoodyHayes: I hadn't heard the no face touching thing either outside of a different one of our work kids who joined up and is now a Drill Instructor out on the west coast. I don't remember if he said it was an actual policy or just something that is informally enforced at the discretion of a DI with a certain pet peeve but he told me to do it in front of our kids, that it would probably make them go bonkers and he was right. It was something about not getting germs in your eyes, that you weren't supposed to touch your face.

img.fark.netView Full Size

... okay....
 
2019-04-15 01:08:41 PM  
Now get Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller to do "no hands in your pockets" next.

And deny Gunny the pleasure of sneaking up behind a junior enlisted and shouting "Hey Devil, get your dadgum hands out your pockets!" to watch him piss himself?  Not gonna happen.
 
2019-04-15 01:21:34 PM  

JNowe: Now get Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller to do "no hands in your pockets" next.

And deny Gunny the pleasure of sneaking up behind a junior enlisted and shouting "Hey Devil, get your dadgum hands out your pockets!" to watch him piss himself?  Not gonna happen.


In TRADOC on Ft Gordon we called them "Air Force Gloves".  We had a Drill Sergeant who would take a long route to march us to the school house in the morning if we had time just so he could tell us to "air force march" past their dorm area.  We'd put our hands in our pockets, march sloppily out of time, and talk loudly about room service until we were past the building.

It's a fun memory of shenanigans.
 
2019-04-15 01:31:51 PM  

JNowe: Now get Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller to do "no hands in your pockets" next.

And deny Gunny the pleasure of sneaking up behind a junior enlisted and shouting "Hey Devil, get your dadgum hands out your pockets!" to watch him piss himself?  Not gonna happen.


Best instant discipline story I heard happened in Quantico. The commandant's staff car was driving past a Corporal and a PFC, and the PFC, seeing the flag on the staff car, snapped a quick salute, while the Corporal didn't. The car stopped, and the commandant got out, walked up to the two marines, and swapped their rank insignia (they were both wearing utilities) and hopped back in the car.

I'm not sure about how true the story was, but I paid a LOT more attention to the cars that drove through Quantico (where I was attending Computer Science School).
 
2019-04-15 01:40:17 PM  

NkThrasher: JNowe: Now get Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller to do "no hands in your pockets" next.

And deny Gunny the pleasure of sneaking up behind a junior enlisted and shouting "Hey Devil, get your dadgum hands out your pockets!" to watch him piss himself?  Not gonna happen.

In TRADOC on Ft Gordon we called them "Air Force Gloves".  We had a Drill Sergeant who would take a long route to march us to the school house in the morning if we had time just so he could tell us to "air force march" past their dorm area.  We'd put our hands in our pockets, march sloppily out of time, and talk loudly about room service until we were past the building.

It's a fun memory of shenanigans.


I was at Little Creek for AIT (music school back then).  We used to sing cadences on the way to class every morning mocking the sailors and Marines we were in training with.

/proudest moment of my military career was when the drills give me command of the company for one morning's march
//didn't screw up the countermarch
///or forget to face left after commanding the company to right face.
 
2019-04-15 02:09:13 PM  

This text is now purple: 006andahalf: You never know when an Airman with a atray zamboni might appear.

That's hardly a reasonable example.

An Airman would never be caught in anything as slow, ugly, and useful as a zamboni.


Counterpoint: the USAFA hockey rink.  Can't make that shiat up-- "PT belts required on ice."

Favorite instant rank change/karma story comes from a friend who was on USS Indepndence.  A dude was getting masted and knew he would get knocked down so he wore his nameplate from his previous rank beneath his current.  When the Captain announced the demotion, the guy with a grin pulls the tag off to reveal the old one.  With a straight face and nary a pause the Captain looks at him and says, "do you have another on beneath that?"
 
2019-04-15 02:46:41 PM  
G.I. Jerks - PT Belts Overseas
Youtube REaeZklm8BA
 
2019-04-15 02:48:43 PM  
pics.me.meView Full Size
 
2019-04-15 03:00:08 PM  
d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.netView Full Size

This is the safest man in the entire military.
 
2019-04-15 03:15:44 PM  

LesserEvil: JNowe: Now get Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller to do "no hands in your pockets" next.

And deny Gunny the pleasure of sneaking up behind a junior enlisted and shouting "Hey Devil, get your dadgum hands out your pockets!" to watch him piss himself?  Not gonna happen.

Best instant discipline story I heard happened in Quantico. The commandant's staff car was driving past a Corporal and a PFC, and the PFC, seeing the flag on the staff car, snapped a quick salute, while the Corporal didn't. The car stopped, and the commandant got out, walked up to the two marines, and swapped their rank insignia (they were both wearing utilities) and hopped back in the car.

I'm not sure about how true the story was, but I paid a LOT more attention to the cars that drove through Quantico (where I was attending Computer Science School).


Small world, I too attended the CSS.
 
2019-04-15 07:54:08 PM  

MythDragon: [d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net image 604x453]
This is the safest man in the entire military.


Except sniper school.
 
2019-04-15 08:07:00 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Silverstaff: Unless they changed it very recently, yes. I wasn't a motorcycle rider, but I always saw them in full reflective vest.

They got rid of those base/post stickers for windshields though a bit over a decade ago, they decided having every car that's supposed to be on a military base having a decal on the windshield that said what post it goes to and the rank of the normal occupant was a huge OPSEC issue.


I guess the hi-viz pendulum was swinging and I got lucky with the timing. The vest would have been a PITA.

I recall (1990s) there being a rectangular blue and white DoD numbered sticker, with a blue border for enlisted and a red border for officers. Then there could be a sticker below that with the base/post name, and a couple smaller stickers (one on either side) to indicate the month and year of expiration.

Or I just could have found a picture. This is from 2013, and is mostly similar to what I remember. It's from an article announcing that the windshield stickers were going away. :-)

[img.fark.net image 840x560]


I think you have the colors reversed. Blue was for 0s, red was enlisted.
 
2019-04-15 10:39:12 PM  

dittybopper: Hey.  I still have my reflective yellow armband we used to have to wear marching from the barracks to the school building on Fort Devens in the winter months, because it was dark and the column of 100 or so soldiers might not be seen by someone driving, since we blended in with the trees and shiat.

That was 34 years ago?  Crap.

/Generally marched back in time for lunch.
//Then PT, and extra training.


One of the best things about being in 10th group on Devens was that there was pretty much zero unit marching around. We just formed up at our WW2 barracks compound up by the water tower for first formation and then dispersed to our respective work areas when done.
 
2019-04-15 10:46:55 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: doctorguilty: WoodyHayes: We recentlyish had two of our kids at work go through Parris Island, when they came back I deliberately made a habit of touching my face and putting my hands in my pockets in front of them. They were not amused at my shenanigans, rants about the stupidity of certain practices ensued.

On behalf of the great unwashed - huh?
/ Ignorant civilian here


Military and Air Force people in uniform generally aren't supposed to stand or walk around with their hands in their pockets.

I don't know what the deal is with the face touching.


In the Army we called pockets "Air Force gloves" because Airmen commonly have their hands in them.
 
2019-04-16 02:12:27 AM  

WoodyHayes: I laughed my ass off and put my window back up before driving off. If he was Navy ROTC I'm pretty sure I would have picked him up and dropped him off at his destination. Obviously I have no idea what he thought of the matter, but somewhere across this great country I hope there is some Air Force occifer who has a hatred of the Army that I helped contribute to.


And now we know why the A-10 is going away.

"This thing is only good for close air support.  We don't need close air support, the army does.  Fark 'em."
 
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