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(The New York Times)   National media is finally reporting on an issue the American West has been fighting for years. The mass abuse of Native American women. Can we have an "About Time" tag?   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: News, Rape, Native American women, Federal Bureau of Investigation, bipartisan bill, Catherine Cortez Masto, Police, Sexual intercourse, Lisa Murkowski  
•       •       •

2715 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2019 at 7:35 AM (6 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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6 days ago  
National media is in the clickbait business.
Don't kid yourselves.
 
6 days ago  
Look for Yertle to sit on said bill...
 
6 days ago  

vudukungfu: National media is in the clickbait business.
Don't kid yourselves.


What we need is a nationwide campaign to draw attention to their plight. Some way for the Native Americans to go viral.
 
6 days ago  
croesius:
What we need is a nationwide campaign to draw attention to their plight. Some way for the Native Americans to go viral.

Maybe we should send out a blanket of support which might end their trail of tears
 
6 days ago  
I'm glad you managed to make this about you submitter by turning it into some kind of "Fake News!"/"Coastal elites!" Diatribe. fark you submitter.
 
6 days ago  

Voiceofreason01: I'm glad you managed to make this about you submitter by turning it into some kind of "Fake News!"/"Coastal elites!" Diatribe. fark you submitter.


I didn't submit it but

No u
 
6 days ago  

croesius: vudukungfu: National media is in the clickbait business.
Don't kid yourselves.

What we need is a nationwide campaign to draw attention to their plight. Some way for the Native Americans to go viral.


Like using blankets? It worked before.
 
6 days ago  
Local media hasn't exactly been covering it either.  The TV stations in the cities rarely report on what happens outside of the cities, and almost never on what happens to Native Americans in the cities.

It is shameful that this and other issues are.not being reported on when you learn just a tiny bit of what is going on.
 
6 days ago  
The American West has been fighting it?  Who do you think has been doing it, out there in that red :( MAGA heartland?
 
6 days ago  
This has been out in the open and spoken about in Canada for generations. I don't know if humanity has the capacity to not be assholes to indigenous populations. Not excusing it, but I'm jaded and cynical enough to think being decent towards those who are less powerful is beyond us as a species. Also, fark those who abuse indigenous folks.
 
6 days ago  

gilatrout: Local media hasn't exactly been covering it either.  The TV stations in the cities rarely report on what happens outside of the cities, and almost never on what happens to Native Americans in the cities.

It is shameful that this and other issues are.not being reported on when you learn just a tiny bit of what is going on.


Our federal government is busy investgating and outraging at each other to bother fixing anything. Check back in 2020.  Maybe we will be able to do stuff.
 
6 days ago  

MizzouFTW: Voiceofreason01: I'm glad you managed to make this about you submitter by turning it into some kind of "Fake News!"/"Coastal elites!" Diatribe. fark you submitter.

I didn't submit it but

No u


Oh I sorry I forgot: Last year Missouri got funding to put up posters about human trafficking while also not funding investigations or enforcement. #maga
 
6 days ago  

gilatrout: It is shameful that this and other issues are.not being reported on when you learn just a tiny bit of what is going on.


Politics gets in the way. Nobody likes talking about the endemic child sexual abuse in Australian Aboriginal communities or among British/Irish travellers either, and both police and social workers completely ignored for decades the mass abuse of white children by Asian men across several British cities. You don't have to be rich to be above the law.
 
6 days ago  
This isn't an "American West" problem. It's all of our problems, and the only reason they focus on the West is that the East drove them off their lands long enough ago that they don't feel responsible for their current state.
 
6 days ago  

FreakyBunny: Also, fark those who abuse indigenous folks.


Predators tend to prey within the bounds of their own racial and ethnic groups.

/Not saying outgroup predation isn't a disproportionate problem for indigenous communities, but I'll be surprised if it accounts for a very large number of these cases.
 
6 days ago  

Chthonic Echoes: FreakyBunny: Also, fark those who abuse indigenous folks.

Predators tend to prey within the bounds of their own racial and ethnic groups.

/Not saying outgroup predation isn't a disproportionate problem for indigenous communities, but I'll be surprised if it accounts for a very large number of these cases.


You are wrong.
 
6 days ago  
Huh. So I take it there's native American porn?
 
6 days ago  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
6 days ago  
And, of course, Republicans will block any attempts to codify useful protections because reasons.
 
6 days ago  

Chthonic Echoes: Predators tend to prey within the bounds of their own racial and ethnic groups.


https://www.bustle.com/p/the-true-sto​r​y-behind-wind-river-is-this-hidden-inj​ustice-against-native-american-women-7​5304

"Sexual assault of a Native woman by a non-Native couldn't be prosecuted because it was a state crime on federal land. At the same time, if you were a Native accused of assaulting a non-Native, you could be prosecuted twice, once by the federal government and once by the tribal police. It was a double standard of medieval proportions."

In most racial/ethnic groups, that may be true. But when your ethnic group happens to have its own government, outside the jurisdiction of the federal government, there's actually a benefit for non-Native Americans to commit crimes on reservations.
 
6 days ago  
Arm them.
 
6 days ago  

FreakyBunny: This has been out in the open and spoken about in Canada for generations. I don't know if humanity has the capacity to not be assholes to indigenous populations. Not excusing it, but I'm jaded and cynical enough to think being decent towards those who are less powerful is beyond us as a species. Also, fark those who abuse indigenous folks.


fark those who abuse indigenous folks

Does that include other indigenous folks? I ask this because the majority of abuse and rape of native women is committed by native men.

That's an inconvenient fact though, which is why headlines and articles like this tend to reference exclusively the victims and rarely or never the perpetrators.
 
6 days ago  

RobotSpider: But when your ethnic group happens to have its own government, outside the jurisdiction of the federal government, there's actually a benefit for non-Native Americans to commit crimes on reservations.


It's almost like the current system of Native Americans having quasi-countries that are also part of the US and located within other states yet on Federal land is a deeply flawed government arrangement.
 
6 days ago  

RobotSpider: Sexual assault of a Native woman by a non-Native couldn't be prosecuted because it was a state crime on federal land.


So if you rape someone in a national park you can't be prosecuted because it's a state crime on Federal land?
 
6 days ago  
Of all the people that should be getting reparations and should be a cause for shame for America, especially White America, it's the disgusting way that our forefathers treated Native Americans, and the continuing legacy of how we treat them.

I am always mindful of the plight of African Americans and other minorities, of course, because that, too, was a horrible and disgusting period of our history that we are still fighting to fully acknowledge and move on from. I acknowledge that, and while i don't feel guilt for it given that my family has a long history of fighting *against* slavery, including losses in the Civil War on the "right" side of the conflict/never having owned slaves, it's part of the history of America.

What we did to the Native Americans, though. That's blood on all of our hands. We took the land, we broke treaty after treaty with the Native peoples, we denied them rights and even the basic dignities of humanity, to a degree that even Slaves were considered more valuable.  We massacred them without thought, and we gleefully built our society on their blood and bones, ignoring their plight because we gave them a pittance of a stipend, herded them onto small parcels of land we laughingly called a reservation that somehow was to make up for everything we took, and we systematically refuse to acknowledge it in any way even coming close to what we've bothered to do for slavery.

It's disgusting. It's heartbreaking. And the fact that the issues plaguing Native Americans continues without so much as a peep most of the time as compared to any other group, is just...mindboggling. We still view Native Americans as a side show. An anachronism. A novelty from the "Old West", like Cowboys and all the other romanticized elements from that period.

They deserve at least as much of a voice as African Americans, if not more. They deserve far more than what we give them.

And this article? This examination of the abuse of Native American women? It's an afterthought. Where the hell is the public outrage for the massive problems with drugs and alcoholism? The massive amounts of poverty? The lack of education? The fact that these are people we have not only marginalized as part of society, but have actively worked to ignore because they have chosen to maintain independent status after a century of abuse and genocide.

The Manifest Destiny attitude and the policies pushed by the wealthy towards the Native Americans when we started expansion into the west and built our settlements would make Hitler blush.
 
6 days ago  

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: RobotSpider: But when your ethnic group happens to have its own government, outside the jurisdiction of the federal government, there's actually a benefit for non-Native Americans to commit crimes on reservations.

It's almost like the current system of Native Americans having quasi-countries that are also part of the US and located within other states yet on Federal land is a deeply flawed government arrangement.


It's a convenient one that has been carefully built so that no one has to take responsibility for them and can wash their hands of their problems. It's not *their* fault that the legalities are a mess and make it almost impossible to enforce the law.
 
6 days ago  

aagrajag: That's an inconvenient fact though, which is why headlines and articles like this tend to reference exclusively the victims and rarely or never the perpetrators.


I get what you're saying, but there's another side as well.

There's a need to focus on both, but as separate entities.  Understanding the commonalities among highly targeted groups is important.  And that analysis needs to be done separately from understanding the offenders.  Keeping them separate in media coverage helps to keep the public from drawing connections between what victims do (dress, social behavior, etc) and those that prey on them.  In essence, it lowers victim blaming and stops readers from placing them in a mental community far away from themselves.

In this case, talking about Native American men preying on Native American women causes most readers to court it off in their head.  It's a problem in their community.  They have to deal with it.  It distances it and makes it alien.  Part of the "other" phenomenon.  The same thing that makes people turn blind eyes to domestic abuse.  It's a family issue, and we shouldn't interfere.  Generalizing it as "child abuse" gets people more involved in the problem.

But yeah, you're right.  There's no enough talking about the epidemic of abusers in some communities, and how to address it.  I just don't want to see them tied off in a neat little package and left off to the side.
 
6 days ago  

RobotSpider: Chthonic Echoes: Predators tend to prey within the bounds of their own racial and ethnic groups.

https://www.bustle.com/p/the-true-stor​y-behind-wind-river-is-this-hidden-inj​ustice-against-native-american-women-7​5304

"Sexual assault of a Native woman by a non-Native couldn't be prosecuted because it was a state crime on federal land. At the same time, if you were a Native accused of assaulting a non-Native, you could be prosecuted twice, once by the federal government and once by the tribal police. It was a double standard of medieval proportions."

In most racial/ethnic groups, that may be true. But when your ethnic group happens to have its own government, outside the jurisdiction of the federal government, there's actually a benefit for non-Native Americans to commit crimes on reservations.


I'm sure that's very true, and it needs to be addressed.

But . . . if *quick Google search* . . . serial killers, for example, are found in among all racial groups,  andin 90% of cases victim and perpetrator belong to the same racial group and law enforcement isn't catching any indigenous serial killers . . . you can connect the dots.

This was a problem for a long time in African American communities: racism toward victims combined with inadequate resources to investigate disappearances/murders led to the mistaken belief that there were no African American serial killers.
 
6 days ago  

Kit Fister: Where the hell is the public outrage for the massive problems with drugs and alcoholism? The massive amounts of poverty? The lack of education? The fact that these are people we have not only marginalized as part of society, but have actively worked to ignore because they have chosen to maintain independent status after a century of abuse and genocide.


Not disagreeing with a word you wrote but where do you go from here? Given that things should be made better, how can they be made better? Is it time to abandon the system of reservations and tribal law (models for the Bantustans) and incorporate native americans fully into the government and legal systems of the rest of the country? Or maybe go the other way and devolve even more, as I believe Canada has?
 
6 days ago  

Kit Fister: I am always mindful of the plight of African Americans and other minorities, of course, because that, too, was a horrible and disgusting period of our history that we are still fighting to fully acknowledge and move on from. I acknowledge that, and while i don't feel guilt for it given that my family has a long history of fighting *against* slavery, including losses in the Civil War on the "right" side of the conflict/never having owned slaves, it's part of the history of America.

What we did to the Native Americans, though. That's blood on all of our hands.


Black versus native is a fun intersectional battle. We treated natives worse (arguable). But they kept black slaves. Fight!
 
6 days ago  
American Native or Native American?
 
6 days ago  

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: RobotSpider: Sexual assault of a Native woman by a non-Native couldn't be prosecuted because it was a state crime on federal land.

So if you rape someone in a national park you can't be prosecuted because it's a state crime on Federal land?


Those are also federal crimes. You will be charged in federal court, however. (In most cases; states may have limited jurisdiction within federally-owned land, depending on the cirumstances)

https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPag​e​?handle=hein.journals/lawlr2&div=12&id​=&page=
https://www.outsideonline.com/2353856​/​national-park-service-investigative-se​rvices-branch
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te​x​t/16/24
https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/​c​gi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3814&contex​t=californialawreview

There is an interesting edge case in the law that regards the Idaho and Montana portions of Yellowstone, though. You may have a due process argument that prevents prosecution.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2014​/​02/can-you-commit-a-crime-within-idaho​-s-part-of-yellowstone-and-not-be-char​ged.html
 
6 days ago  

This text is now purple: Kit Fister: I am always mindful of the plight of African Americans and other minorities, of course, because that, too, was a horrible and disgusting period of our history that we are still fighting to fully acknowledge and move on from. I acknowledge that, and while i don't feel guilt for it given that my family has a long history of fighting *against* slavery, including losses in the Civil War on the "right" side of the conflict/never having owned slaves, it's part of the history of America.

What we did to the Native Americans, though. That's blood on all of our hands.

Black versus native is a fun intersectional battle. We treated natives worse (arguable). But they kept black slaves. Fight!


Once again the plight of Asian Americans gets ignored.
 
6 days ago  

orbister: Kit Fister: 
Not disagreeing with a word you wrote but where do you go from here? Given that things should be made better, how can they be made better? Is it time to abandon the system of reservations and tribal law (models for the Bantustans) and incorporate native americans fully into the government and legal systems of the rest of the country? Or maybe go the other way and devolve even more, as I believe Canada has?


I don't think there is a right answer yet, but here's some thoughts from a middle-aged white Canadian:

Starting Premise:
Putting a white-man's suburb in the middle of the bush country and saying to the natives 'there's home' has NOT worked AT ALL

So, what to do?
Let them run things themselves!  Except.......
... you have a culture that was destroyed and a cycle of poverty that makes education a hard thing to come by.    Millions of dollars go to native Band Councils each year... yet there doesn't seem to be good accounting on that but boy howdy does the band chief have a nice car.   So maybe that isn't working either.

Proposal:  two options, simultaneous:

1) Retain all their tax rights and university college benefits BUT live 'off rez' in fully assimilated urban / suburban places.

2) Bulldoze the white-man suburbs in the bush and say that the native reservations are for living on traditional lands in traditional ways.   It's there, go to it.  Live like your ancestors without any government meddling.
 
6 days ago  

Chthonic Echoes: But . . . if *quick Google search* . . . serial killers, for example, are found in among all racial groups,  andin 90% of cases victim and perpetrator belong to the same racial group and law enforcement isn't catching any indigenous serial killers . . . you can connect the dots.


James Allen Red Dog.
 
6 days ago  

genner: This text is now purple: Kit Fister: I am always mindful of the plight of African Americans and other minorities, of course, because that, too, was a horrible and disgusting period of our history that we are still fighting to fully acknowledge and move on from. I acknowledge that, and while i don't feel guilt for it given that my family has a long history of fighting *against* slavery, including losses in the Civil War on the "right" side of the conflict/never having owned slaves, it's part of the history of America.

What we did to the Native Americans, though. That's blood on all of our hands.

Black versus native is a fun intersectional battle. We treated natives worse (arguable). But they kept black slaves. Fight!

Once again the plight of Asian Americans gets ignored.


We gave them Hawaii.
 
6 days ago  

ObscureNameHere: 2) Bulldoze the white-man suburbs in the bush and say that the native reservations are for living on traditional lands in traditional ways.   It's there, go to it.  Live like your ancestors without any government meddling.


Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.
 
6 days ago  

This text is now purple: Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.


How's that working out?
 
6 days ago  
This is a major problem, and only comes close to being equaled by the number of Native Men that are murdered/go missing every year. The tribes tried cooperation agreements to get more resources, in case the crime was committed on Native land. Unfortunately there was a dramatic rise in Natives (men and women) being killed by cops, because then they could apply their Rambo inspired tactics on the Res. That led to the end of cooperation agreements pretty quick.
 
6 days ago  

orbister: This text is now purple: Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.

How's that working out?


Versus low-speed genocide? Reasonably well.
 
6 days ago  

orbister: This text is now purple: Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.

How's that working out?


Any time you create a special set of rules for different people, you have to expect a different set of outcomes.  The whole notion of Brown v Board of Education is that separate but equal never is.  To the contrary, it gives a government sanctioned means to hide injustice.
 
6 days ago  

This text is now purple: orbister: This text is now purple: Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.

How's that working out?

Versus low-speed genocide? Reasonably well.


Are those our only choices today?
 
6 days ago  
Tias nastiness was going on in Montana when I was in high school. Being a Californian I was shocked, angered and disgusted ( and it set off a psychotic war on my part -- Me vs All The Nazis, KKK & Skinheads ). A baby was murdered by the white supremacists during my time there. They caught the monster ( KKK guy too ) but it didn't stop any of the mistreatment, abuse and outright bodily harm perpetrated against the natives. Boy oh boy though when those schmucks started going after the very small population of Jews in town all the shiates hit all the fans. There's a documentary called "Not In Our Town" and an organization formed. Things changed ... until 2016. Now, I don't know.

/ NotCSB
 
6 days ago  

Persnickety: This text is now purple: orbister: This text is now purple: Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.

How's that working out?

Versus low-speed genocide? Reasonably well.

Are those our only choices today?


Surveying the history of other quasi-sovereign outgroups?

Yeah, pretty much. Full-on independence is a death-sentence. Nations just don't tolerate adverse enclaves like that. Not for long.
But then, full absorption is a backdoor means of cultural elimination.

Really, no one has come up with a good long-term solution for this sort of thing. Genocide and/or full displacement remains both really popular and really effective.
 
6 days ago  

Persnickety: orbister: This text is now purple: Or you could, you know, let them make their own decisions.

How's that working out?

Any time you create a special set of rules for different people, you have to expect a different set of outcomes.  The whole notion of Brown v Board of Education is that separate but equal never is.  To the contrary, it gives a government sanctioned means to hide injustice.


Brown v Board doesn't apply to the natives.
Article I, Section 2 and Article I, Section 8 specifically call out Indians as a separate class -- not fully citizen nor fully alien.

Native jurisprudence is a mess; something even SCOTUS acknowledges.
 
6 days ago  
And then there's folks like this goddamn dipshiat:
https://splinternews.com/jicarilla-ap​a​che-nation-to-hold-special-election-af​ter-1834008873
Rez politics really can end up looking like the freakin' worst small-town corruption.
 
6 days ago  

gilatrout: Local media hasn't exactly been covering it either.  The TV stations in the cities rarely report on what happens outside of the cities, and almost never on what happens to Native Americans in the cities.

It is shameful that this and other issues are.not being reported on when you learn just a tiny bit of what is going on.


not here.  the local media and local politicians bring it up all the time.  The problem being a lot of the abuse is due to poverty, drugs, and alcohol on/off the Reservations, something that the Local and State governments can't cure.
 
6 days ago  

ObscureNameHere: orbister: Kit Fister: 
Not disagreeing with a word you wrote but where do you go from here? Given that things should be made better, how can they be made better? Is it time to abandon the system of reservations and tribal law (models for the Bantustans) and incorporate native americans fully into the government and legal systems of the rest of the country? Or maybe go the other way and devolve even more, as I believe Canada has?

I don't think there is a right answer yet, but here's some thoughts from a middle-aged white Canadian:

Starting Premise:
Putting a white-man's suburb in the middle of the bush country and saying to the natives 'there's home' has NOT worked AT ALL

So, what to do?
Let them run things themselves!  Except.......
... you have a culture that was destroyed and a cycle of poverty that makes education a hard thing to come by.    Millions of dollars go to native Band Councils each year... yet there doesn't seem to be good accounting on that but boy howdy does the band chief have a nice car.   So maybe that isn't working either.

Proposal:  two options, simultaneous:

1) Retain all their tax rights and university college benefits BUT live 'off rez' in fully assimilated urban / suburban places.

2) Bulldoze the white-man suburbs in the bush and say that the native reservations are for living on traditional lands in traditional ways.   It's there, go to it.  Live like your ancestors without any government meddling.


You say putting " a white mans suburb in the bush hasn't worked... but don't seem to ask what hasn't worked. Are you saying "towns don't work"? History seems to show otherwise. Central to the effectiveness of a town is its governance system.

First Nations in Canada are governed by the tri-level Indian Act, Canadian law, which creates a stand alone governance system that only has democracy at the mayor level. Undemocratically appointed or hired Canadians control this governance system at the top two of the three levels.

So if you value the boons of democracy and believe that those people governed by a law should control that law, then you should realize that this is NOT the Indian Act governance system. First Nations can't fix their problems, because Canadians undemocratically control their government. Law affects lives.
 
6 days ago  

thepeterd: [img.fark.net image 220x165]


Nobody said anything about Italian Americans. Get your own thread .
 
6 days ago  

Kit Fister: And this article? This examination of the abuse of Native American women? It's an afterthought. Where the hell is the public outrage for the massive problems with drugs and alcoholism? The massive amounts of poverty? The lack of education? The fact that these are people we have not only marginalized as part of society, but have actively worked to ignore because they have chosen to maintain independent status after a century of abuse and genocide.


Add to the laundry list, white people basically stealing native children and indoctrinating them into Christian ways. There was a thing on NPR a few months ago about that.

BF is mostly Mohawk so I've been learning first hand (although I already knew some of it). It's heartbreaking and I really hate it when people display intense ignorance about it...
 
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