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(CNBC)   Boeing has tested its new 737 software on 96 flights spanning 159 hours, including a flight with CEO Dennis Muilenberg on board. That's one way to prevent a crash   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Flight, Aircraft, Federal Aviation Administration, Boeing, Application software, System software, Wing, George W. Bush  
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387 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Apr 2019 at 1:22 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



30 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2019-04-13 11:39:31 AM  
I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.
 
2019-04-13 12:09:35 PM  
let's see him drink fracking fluid on one of those planes.
 
2019-04-13 01:23:57 PM  
I GUESS IT'S ALL GOOD THEN!

or not
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2019-04-13 01:25:59 PM  
Let's see him try without a parachute.
 
2019-04-13 01:34:44 PM  
Next time the CEO flies, let's get one of the maintenance technicians to stick a wad of chewing gum onto the AoA sensor before the plane takes off. The real question is how well the software reacts under fault conditions.
 
2019-04-13 02:00:01 PM  
No story about this affair is worth shiat until I see one where that CEO is personally being charged with manslaughter for the deaths of those two plane loads of people in the name of profits.
 
2019-04-13 02:02:08 PM  
Did he earn miles for the trip?
 
2019-04-13 02:15:34 PM  

Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.


You say that now, but what are you going to do when the flight with a 737 Max is $300 cheaper than all of the other flights on the day you want to fly?

Boeing will be fine because there is only one other maker of jumbo jets. And Airbus only has so much capacity - even if an airline wanted to cancel all of its Boeing orders, it would take years for Airbus to fulfill them.
 
2019-04-13 02:17:26 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Next time the CEO flies, let's get one of the maintenance technicians to stick a wad of chewing gum onto the AoA sensor before the plane takes off. The real question is how well the software reacts under fault conditions.


Indeed. I'm guessing he flew in Maxes equipped with the optional safety equipment, at a cool, low elevation airport, with pilots who received specialized training in simulators, using perfectly functioning AOA sensors.

If he wants to show his confidence, take off from Addis Ababa with no optional equipment, a pilot who just finished 200 flight hours to get a license, and a refurb angle of attack sensor that's been giving incorrect readings on preceding flights.
 
2019-04-13 02:35:45 PM  
Boeing should never have been allowed to certify themselves.
Ever.
 
2019-04-13 02:46:27 PM  

Znuh: Boeing should never have been allowed to certify themselves.
Ever.


And Pete Carroll should have let Lynch run the ball.
 
2019-04-13 02:55:16 PM  
I bet it now almost rarely falls out of the sky
 
2019-04-13 03:11:47 PM  

Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.


That's why they'll be re-named Seven Blurty Sevens.
 
Azz [TotalFark]
2019-04-13 03:12:31 PM  

DRTFA: Znuh: Boeing should never have been allowed to certify themselves.
Ever.

And Pete Carroll should have let Lynch run the ball.


And Bill Buckner should have fielded more balls during practice that day
 
2019-04-13 03:13:15 PM  

T Baggins: Ivo Shandor: Next time the CEO flies, let's get one of the maintenance technicians to stick a wad of chewing gum onto the AoA sensor before the plane takes off. The real question is how well the software reacts under fault conditions.

Indeed. I'm guessing he flew in Maxes equipped with the optional safety equipment, at a cool, low elevation airport, with pilots who received specialized training in simulators, using perfectly functioning AOA sensors.

If he wants to show his confidence, take off from Addis Ababa with no optional equipment, a pilot who just finished 200 flight hours to get a license, and a refurb angle of attack sensor that's been giving incorrect readings on preceding flights.


The optional equipment and AoA sensors are one and the same.

And they didn't install another AoA if you paid more money. They "unlocked" it. Both sensors are there.

Boeing is unlocking all of them "for free" and changing the system so it only tries to save you from a stall a few times and then quits.

Honestly the changes are so incredibly minor. The real sin they committed is the lax pilot training of this emergency. Everyone at the top is at fault here, Boeing, the FAA, and the airlines who all wanted this expedited because actual training is expensive.

If the pilots simply knew about the damn thing, like we all do, they would know you just hit the switch it off and be done with it.
 
2019-04-13 03:13:46 PM  

thornhill: Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.

You say that now, but what are you going to do when the flight with a 737 Max is $300 cheaper than all of the other flights on the day you want to fly?

Boeing will be fine because there is only one other maker of jumbo jets. And Airbus only has so much capacity - even if an airline wanted to cancel all of its Boeing orders, it would take years for Airbus to fulfill them.


China's probably about two years from cookie-cuttering jets copied from both Airbus and Boeing's stolen data.
 
2019-04-13 03:30:50 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: thornhill: Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.

You say that now, but what are you going to do when the flight with a 737 Max is $300 cheaper than all of the other flights on the day you want to fly?

Boeing will be fine because there is only one other maker of jumbo jets. And Airbus only has so much capacity - even if an airline wanted to cancel all of its Boeing orders, it would take years for Airbus to fulfill them.

China's probably about two years from cookie-cuttering jets copied from both Airbus and Boeing's stolen data.


And they will get certified by the FAA and the EU regulators in about how long? The certification process is not designed to allow new entrants all that easily.
 
2019-04-13 06:16:09 PM  

Esc7: T Baggins: Ivo Shandor: Next time the CEO flies, let's get one of the maintenance technicians to stick a wad of chewing gum onto the AoA sensor before the plane takes off. The real question is how well the software reacts under fault conditions.

Indeed. I'm guessing he flew in Maxes equipped with the optional safety equipment, at a cool, low elevation airport, with pilots who received specialized training in simulators, using perfectly functioning AOA sensors.

If he wants to show his confidence, take off from Addis Ababa with no optional equipment, a pilot who just finished 200 flight hours to get a license, and a refurb angle of attack sensor that's been giving incorrect readings on preceding flights.

The optional equipment and AoA sensors are one and the same.

And they didn't install another AoA if you paid more money. They "unlocked" it. Both sensors are there.

Boeing is unlocking all of them "for free" and changing the system so it only tries to save you from a stall a few times and then quits.

Honestly the changes are so incredibly minor. The real sin they committed is the lax pilot training of this emergency. Everyone at the top is at fault here, Boeing, the FAA, and the airlines who all wanted this expedited because actual training is expensive.

If the pilots simply knew about the damn thing, like we all do, they would know you just hit the switch it off and be done with it.


The planes already had two AOA sensors, both active, and those are not the same as the optional safety features and equipment. There are many safety options, only two of which are going to be provided for free: the screen display of AOA data, and the AOA disagree indicator. (The features still seem kind of stupid, since the software can almost always infer which sensor is broken, and unless it can't infer it, it should just say indicate which is correct...on the other hand their computer systems seem designed with a 1970s mindset, and their programmers would probably have screwed up the implementation of any post-1970s ideas).

And the Ethiopian Airlines pilots were familiar with Boeing's post-Lion-Air instructions, which they followed precisely, repeatedly, but what the instructions left out is that they only work if the plane is crashing itself slowly, and they were flying at full power, probably because they were at just 1500 or so feet, taking off from a high altitude airport, when the warnings went crazy and the plane began crashing itself. With the benefit of knowledge they didn't possess, they should have reduced power, increasing their descent rate but decreasing their airspeed, until they could manually adjust the trim and possibly pull up just before impact, or perhaps cycled power to the pitch trim off and on every ten seconds, so that they'd have automatic trim power for a few seconds before the MCAS re-engaged and restarted its self destruct sequence. Following Boeing's instructions actually made the plane crash faster, since the MCAS would try to point the nose down even further each time they cycled trim power, although extending passenger terror for an extra minute before crashing isn't necessarily desirable anyway.
 
2019-04-13 06:16:09 PM  

thornhill: Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.

You say that now, but what are you going to do when the flight with a 737 Max is $300 cheaper than all of the other flights on the day you want to fly?

Boeing will be fine because there is only one other maker of jumbo jets. And Airbus only has so much capacity - even if an airline wanted to cancel all of its Boeing orders, it would take years for Airbus to fulfill them.


People can get upset all they want but there's no chance of no Boeing. Doesn't something like 80 percent of worldwide air cargo fly Boeing? Yeah, they could put thumbtacks in all the seats and they'd still have us.
 
2019-04-13 07:43:27 PM  
DM;NB

(Doesn't Matter, Not Boarding)
 
2019-04-13 07:47:58 PM  
Southwest just grounded their through August 5th.
 
2019-04-14 12:34:53 AM  

T Baggins: If he wants to show his confidence, take off from Addis Ababa with no optional equipment, a pilot who just finished 200 flight hours to get a license, and a refurb angle of attack sensor that's been giving incorrect readings on preceding flights.


This.  They equip the plane with the sensor from one of the crashes.
 
2019-04-14 12:47:22 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Next time the CEO flies, let's get one of the maintenance technicians to stick a wad of chewing gum onto the AoA sensor before the plane takes off. The real question is how well the software reacts under fault conditions.


No need.  Out of 380 planes in the air, at least two had AoA sensors fail.  Each plane has two.

1/380 failure rate.

It'll fail on its own.

Which reminds me, why isn't anybody looking at such an unreliable sensor?
 
2019-04-14 12:59:02 AM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: China's probably about two years from cookie-cuttering jets copied from both Airbus and Boeing's stolen data.


China already has a "homegrown" airliner in the 737/A320 niche (the Comac C919) that's in flight testing but has had some struggles.

The really difficult thing in modern aviation is the engines. And you can't just hack a computer somewhere and steal the plans for those, because the plans aren't the big secret; it's the metallurgy and the fabrication techniques, which you can't just go and get step-by-step instructions for. In some cases it's literally a "there's a couple guys in the factory who've been working metals their entire lives and know how to do it just right" thing. Which is speculated to be why China (via state-owned aerospace company AICC) signed a deal to take over the Antonov An-225 line; part of the deal is Antonov's guys teach the Chinese how to make the engines, which doesn't quite get them to the level of modern engine manufacture, but does let them skip a few generations' worth of trial and error.
 
2019-04-14 03:08:17 AM  

rga184: Ivo Shandor: Next time the CEO flies, let's get one of the maintenance technicians to stick a wad of chewing gum onto the AoA sensor before the plane takes off. The real question is how well the software reacts under fault conditions.

No need.  Out of 380 planes in the air, at least two had AoA sensors fail.  Each plane has two.

1/380 failure rate.

It'll fail on its own.

Which reminds me, why isn't anybody looking at such an unreliable sensor?


Uh... that's not how defect rates are calculated, for obvious reasons.  The defect rate needs some measure of usage.  Per-flight, per-mile-flown, per-hour-flown, etc.
 
2019-04-14 07:07:09 AM  

thornhill: Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.

You say that now, but what are you going to do when the flight with a 737 Max is $300 cheaper than all of the other flights on the day you want to fly?

Boeing will be fine because there is only one other maker of jumbo jets. And Airbus only has so much capacity - even if an airline wanted to cancel all of its Boeing orders, it would take years for Airbus to fulfill them.


I'll add this: If your company is anything like mine, I am required to get on the cheapest flight offered. I am picturing this playing out where someone by email objects to their employer that they do not want to fly on the 737 Max, it crashes, and the next of kin sue not only Boeing, but the employer too.
 
2019-04-14 09:34:40 AM  

Endive Wombat: thornhill: Chris Ween: I think its too late.

I will check the type of plane before getting on it now.

You say that now, but what are you going to do when the flight with a 737 Max is $300 cheaper than all of the other flights on the day you want to fly?

Boeing will be fine because there is only one other maker of jumbo jets. And Airbus only has so much capacity - even if an airline wanted to cancel all of its Boeing orders, it would take years for Airbus to fulfill them.

I'll add this: If your company is anything like mine, I am required to get on the cheapest flight offered. I am picturing this playing out where someone by email objects to their employer that they do not want to fly on the 737 Max, it crashes, and the next of kin sue not only Boeing, but the employer too.


Good luck with that lawsuit.

The employer would have to know that the plane was unsafe. If the FAA gives it the all-clear, that's going to be enough.
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2019-04-14 01:20:39 PM  
The software won't change the dangerous design flaws. If this plane pitches up too steeply for any reason it's going to stall, regardless of software - so faults a normal plane could recover from will be fatal on board this new design.
 
2019-04-14 03:58:45 PM  

Xai: The software won't change the dangerous design flaws. If this plane pitches up too steeply for any reason it's going to stall, regardless of software - so faults a normal plane could recover from will be fatal on board this new design.


Well, apparently you don't understand how this works.
 
2019-04-14 05:58:56 PM  

Xai: The software won't change the dangerous design flaws. If this plane pitches up too steeply for any reason it's going to stall, regardless of software - so faults a normal plane could recover from will be fatal on board this new design.


theengineeringmanager.comView Full Size


Ok thanks for your input.
 
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