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(The Cut)   What if the GOP's family leave proposal is the best we can get? Isn't it better than nothing?   (thecut.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Leave, Bill Clinton, Family Medical Leave Act, Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, Business law, Cradle Act, basic parental-leave policies, Social Security  
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1122 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Mar 2019 at 10:59 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-03-25 05:14:37 PM  
I know a lot of women with crap boyfriends who thought the same way subby.
 
2019-03-25 05:34:30 PM  
It is less than nothing.  You aren't gaining anything.  You are literally working longer so that you can bribe your employer to not fire you for daring to be a parent.  There are payday loan places with better deals than that.  So, you have a child, get all of that extra stress, then have to eat into your retirment years with more stressful work.  And if you have multiple kids, you will never not be a wage-slave.  Somehow, even third world shiatholes can function while providing basic parental leave, but the richest nation on Earth can't do the same without farking over the working class.  And now we are trying to suck the dicks of the farkers cracking the whip!
 
2019-03-25 05:45:24 PM  

phalamir: It is less than nothing.  You aren't gaining anything.  You are literally working longer so that you can bribe your employer to not fire you for daring to be a parent.  There are payday loan places with better deals than that.  So, you have a child, get all of that extra stress, then have to eat into your retirment years with more stressful work.  And if you have multiple kids, you will never not be a wage-slave.  Somehow, even third world shiatholes can function while providing basic parental leave, but the richest nation on Earth can't do the same without farking over the working class.  And now we are trying to suck the dicks of the farkers cracking the whip!


In theory, you'll only have to work up to six additional months past your original retirement date. However, I bet that cap is the first thing that goes away as part of the inevitable Social Security "reform" bill.
 
2019-03-25 05:55:05 PM  

shadow01: I know a lot of women with crap boyfriends who thought the same way subby.


Have a smart, because we still don't have a sad and true button
 
2019-03-25 06:04:57 PM  
Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.
 
2019-03-25 06:06:20 PM  

Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.


6 weeks? Try aim a little higher to match the rest of 1st World
 
2019-03-25 06:19:40 PM  

Gubbo: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.

6 weeks? Try aim a little higher to match the rest of 1st World


6 weeks IS better than nothing.

And while we're at it, when the hell did Americans embrace the "can't do" attitude. We settle for crap from so many directions and from so many sources, not just our government. Why are we even asking ourselves if this is the best we can do like we don't deserve good things. Other countries have nice things like single payer/public healthcare and family leave because their people DEMAND it for themselves. But America is too busy screwing each over and telling each other to go fark themselves so we get crap.
 
2019-03-25 06:21:39 PM  

Ambivalence: Gubbo: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.

6 weeks? Try aim a little higher to match the rest of 1st World

6 weeks IS better than nothing.

And while we're at it, when the hell did Americans embrace the "can't do" attitude. We settle for crap from so many directions and from so many sources, not just our government. Why are we even asking ourselves if this is the best we can do like we don't deserve good things. Other countries have nice things like single payer/public healthcare and family leave because their people DEMAND it for themselves. But America is too busy screwing each over and telling each other to go fark themselves so we get crap.


You're talking about a country where there were protests demanding austerity which weren't immediately laughed off.
 
2019-03-25 06:26:17 PM  

Ambivalence: Gubbo: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.

6 weeks? Try aim a little higher to match the rest of 1st World

6 weeks IS better than nothing.

And while we're at it, when the hell did Americans embrace the "can't do" attitude. We settle for crap from so many directions and from so many sources, not just our government. Why are we even asking ourselves if this is the best we can do like we don't deserve good things. Other countries have nice things like single payer/public healthcare and family leave because their people DEMAND it for themselves. But America is too busy screwing each over and telling each other to go fark themselves so we get crap.


The can't do attitude comes from every business owner who says (lies) things are too expensive and will cause businesses to close.

Paying a living wage is too expensive
Proper healthcare is too expensive
Family leave is too expensive
Health and safety regulation is too expensive
 
2019-03-25 06:56:09 PM  
No. It is worse than the status quo.

Any other stupid, yet easily answered questions tonite Subs?
 
2019-03-25 07:27:59 PM  
"The hidden agenda of this proposal is to remake Social Security so it's less useful for retirees. Carrie Lukas, president of the Independent Women's Forum, a Koch-connected organization that has been pushing this plan, gave the game away in a February 2018 post at the right-wing Federalist website.

She noted that the proposal might end up "requiring people to give up retirement benefits of greater value than the parental leave benefits they use." Why would that be a good thing? Because "public opinion will undergo a sea change to embrace personal accounts or other substantial Social Security reforms." That's part of the right-wing playbook, in which "Social Security reforms" typically mean lower benefits and the shift of more cost and risk to the working class."

The Republican proposal for paid family leave is a sham that would wreck your retirement
 
2019-03-25 08:02:02 PM  
How many tax cuts for the wealthy are in it?  Are there tax credits to be manipulated?
 
2019-03-25 08:39:47 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: "The hidden agenda of this proposal is to remake Social Security so it's less useful for retirees. Carrie Lukas, president of the Independent Women's Forum, a Koch-connected organization that has been pushing this plan, gave the game away in a February 2018 post at the right-wing Federalist website.

She noted that the proposal might end up "requiring people to give up retirement benefits of greater value than the parental leave benefits they use." Why would that be a good thing? Because "public opinion will undergo a sea change to embrace personal accounts or other substantial Social Security reforms." That's part of the right-wing playbook, in which "Social Security reforms" typically mean lower benefits and the shift of more cost and risk to the working class."

The Republican proposal for paid family leave is a sham that would wreck your retirement


"The Urban Institute estimated that a parental leave program would cost between $7.2 billion and $15 billion in 2025, based on participation estimates ranging from 24% to 50% of new parents. Is this really outside the financial capability of the richest nation on the planet, with a gross domestic product of some $20 trillion? Is it not a better investment then sending more than $1.5 trillion over the next 10 year to the top 1% of U.S. earners via a massively unnecessary tax cut?"

Another reference: We left $8B on the table last year because the IRS has been so gutted they didn't have the resources to collect it.
 
2019-03-25 10:53:21 PM  
It's basically a zero sum deal therefore it IS nothing.
 
2019-03-25 11:02:42 PM  

Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses the

individuals can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave

FTFY
 
2019-03-25 11:08:53 PM  
I love how we love to say we are the greatest country in the world, but you can bet your ass if the French were treated the way we were treated they would just shut the whole f'ing country down until they got what they wanted.

And don't act like we can't do that here. Less than a dozen air traffic controllers didn't show up for work at LaGuardia and Trump ended the Government shutdown immediately.

We have power and we are too lazy or too chicken s### to use it.
 
2019-03-25 11:09:11 PM  
Well, that depends:

Mirroring a failed Republican bill from last year, the Child Rearing and Development Leave Empowerment Act - the Cradle Act - would allow new parents to borrow from their Social Security to fund time away from work.

How much can you borrow?  Because there's a huge difference between keeping the same pay your normally have and getting enough to buy half a pack of diapers.
 
2019-03-25 11:10:31 PM  

phalamir: There are payday loan places with better deals than that.


Probably not payday loans, but if you've got decent credit I would wonder if just going to your bank and taking out a loan for the same amount wouldn't end up being a better deal.
 
2019-03-25 11:12:05 PM  
The GOP should just stop beating around the bush all just come out with the "Get Back in the Kitchen Act" of 2019
 
2019-03-25 11:12:28 PM  
No. It is in fact worse than nothing.
 
2019-03-25 11:13:47 PM  
Let the red states do this.  They don't care about their social welfare anymore as long as it sticks it to the libs.
 
2019-03-25 11:14:17 PM  
What if the shiat sandwich, with authentic stray dog turd from the alley, is the best thing on the menu you can get? Isn't that better than nothing?

This country likes to think it's the best in the world. How come a significant chunk doesn't want to do anything to earn/"keep" that title?
 
2019-03-25 11:15:33 PM  
Given how good many other 1st world countries have theirs set up, if this is the best we can do we might as well either accept our new title of 2nd or lower world countries and/or give this shiat up.

A lot of this is the Republican party getting so thoroughly hijacked by extremists that we can't have anything that's nice anymore simply because of "ZOMG SOCIALIZM!!!!!". And other times while other countries do things after traumatic events (Hello New Zealand!), we can't touch anything because we have to think about the poor, delicate little companies it'll hurt. Granted those "poor" and "delicate" companies make shiatloads of money annually, but it's not enough.
 
2019-03-25 11:16:08 PM  
And then conservatives wonder why young people aren't popping out more kids these days....
 
2019-03-25 11:16:36 PM  

fernt: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses the individuals can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave

FTFY


fark you fernt. I made your mom so wet that Trudeau deployed a 24 hour infantry unit to stack sandbags around my bed.
 
2019-03-25 11:17:56 PM  

Iczer: A lot of this is the Republican party getting so thoroughly hijacked by extremists that we can't have anything that's nice anymore simply because of "ZOMG SOCIALIZM!!!!!".


everyone keeps missing the point - the cruelty isn't a side effect, its the main attraction.  this is BY DESIGN, conservatives don't want women in the workplace.  they want them at home, barefoot and pregnant.  making family leave policies as restrictive and damaging as possible is just one more way to 'convince' women not to enter the work place.
 
2019-03-25 11:18:02 PM  

Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.


Agreed.  But we are talking about Republicans - the self-described pro-family, pro-birth party - that does everything in its power to make it hard on pregnant women.
 
2019-03-25 11:18:35 PM  
But they're still pro-life right?
 
2019-03-25 11:19:07 PM  
The point of SS is that something is there even when one plans poorly or not at all.

Any options remove that contingency is a huge mistake.
 
2019-03-25 11:20:37 PM  

Graffito: But we are talking about Republicans - the self-described pro-family, pro-birth party - that does everything in its power to make it hard on pregnant women.


yes, but again - this is by design.
 
2019-03-25 11:25:04 PM  
Nope, it will give the gop a won.
 
2019-03-25 11:25:58 PM  

Smackledorfer: The point of SS is that something is there even when one plans poorly or not at all.

Any options remove that contingency is a huge mistake.


That's precisely why Republicans want to kill it. If you're a man, they want you working to generate money for the nobility from the moment you can understand directions to the moment you die. No vacations, no retirement, no hope of moving beyond your station. If you're a woman, they want you popping out more cogs for the machine.

If you weren't born at least a multi-millionaire, you are completely expendable to the GOP.
 
2019-03-25 11:29:01 PM  
Wait, GOP families are leaving?

GREAT! I'll help you pack!
 
2019-03-25 11:30:32 PM  
This is how you fix a low birth rate?

/keep shooting yourself in the foot, nazis
 
2019-03-25 11:30:44 PM  
When a headline asks a question, the answer is usually "No".
 
2019-03-25 11:31:05 PM  

Weaver95: Iczer: A lot of this is the Republican party getting so thoroughly hijacked by extremists that we can't have anything that's nice anymore simply because of "ZOMG SOCIALIZM!!!!!".

everyone keeps missing the point - the cruelty isn't a side effect, its the main attraction.  this is BY DESIGN, conservatives don't want women in the workplace.  they want them at home, barefoot and pregnant.  making family leave policies as restrictive and damaging as possible is just one more way to 'convince' women not to enter the work place.


I don't agree with that, necessarily.

Seems that the GOP is just fine with women in the workplace, so long as they have to work several low-income jobs just to make end's meat.
 
2019-03-25 11:37:59 PM  

fernt: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses the individuals can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave

FTFY


Your act is tired Fark off.
 
2019-03-25 11:40:42 PM  

Saiga410: Nope, it will give the gop a won.


i predicted within a few months the GOP would squander any gains they got from the Muller "clearance" at this pace less then a week
 
2019-03-25 11:42:44 PM  

phalamir: It is less than nothing.  You aren't gaining anything.  You are literally working longer so that you can bribe your employer to not fire you for daring to be a parent.  There are payday loan places with better deals than that.  So, you have a child, get all of that extra stress, then have to eat into your retirment years with more stressful work.  And if you have multiple kids, you will never not be a wage-slave.  Somehow, even third world shiatholes can function while providing basic parental leave, but the richest nation on Earth can't do the same without farking over the working class.  And now we are trying to suck the dicks of the farkers cracking the whip!


And yet, the vast majority of Americans would rather have that than vote for "that woman" or vote for a Democrat who is just sooooooo uninspiring.
 
2019-03-25 11:43:16 PM  
They really think we are stupid and their voters are.
 
2019-03-25 11:43:51 PM  

puffy999: I don't agree with that, necessarily.


everything the Republicans do has an extra edge to it - every policy they support tends to harm certain types/classes of people: the poor, women, minorities. LGBT, non christians.  conservatives are needlessly, pointlessly, constantly and tirelessly cruel to any/all of the above.  they do this in every way they can think of - politically, administratively, socially...its even baked into their religion.

given so many restrictive, punitive and deliberately cruel policies to so many people for so little justification its impossible NOT to conclude that the GOP/conservatives are cruel on PURPOSE.  that this petty, vindictive spite is the POINT of their actions, not an unintended side effect.
 
2019-03-25 11:43:53 PM  
Well, with the GOP you always have to see where they are screwing you. And I'm not talking about some give and take to get a deal done. If it looks like they are proposing something for the working class, they are going to take 2x as much in the back end.
 
2019-03-25 11:48:42 PM  

Gubbo: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.

6 weeks? Try aim a little higher to match the rest of 1st World


Right now, there is no requirement for paid maternity leave. Some companies offer some, others provide only unpaid time. I have worked at the unpaid leave places when I was younger, and parents came back far too soon because they could not afford the lost wages.

Does the Republican bill suck? Most certainly. Is it better than a lot families currently have.
 
2019-03-25 11:48:57 PM  
I've got a baby on the way in a few months. For comparison, in NZ, my wife is eligible for 22 weeks paid leave (transferable, capped at $560 per week), followed by up to one year of unpaid leave and a $60/week payment until the child's first birthday. My employer generously offers me 10 weeks at full salary, to be taken in up to 4 periods over one year.

On top of that, one inpatient infertility treatment surgery, IVF, midwife pre- and post-natal care and birth at the hospital cost a grand total of $0.
 
2019-03-25 11:50:36 PM  

fernt: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses the individuals can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave

FTFY


Or, you know, none of this.  And it's pretty clear that you are either of a mind that babies are "women's work" so it doesn't affect you or are so repugnant that procreating isn't in the cards.  Here's a farking tip, kids are expensive.  And yet so much of our society is dependent upon having kids. They are literally the future.  This is especially true if we make it impossible for people to immigrate here.  So no.

Social security is for the utter floor of old age pensions.  This is "keep old ladies from dying on park benches" money.  401K is the fark you that replaced actual pensions because republicans hate labor but love over inflating the stock market.  You do not borrow from SS to have kids.  That's more republican farkery.  They are for two different life events and if you start farking with them then the actuarials get all wonky.  Besides, SS is running out of money and needs to be restructured just to do the thing it does.  Putting more on it is like the shiat they did to the IRS while slashing its budget.

So no, this is worse than anything else.  It should be killed with harpoons.
 
2019-03-25 11:53:00 PM  

Weaver95: puffy999: I don't agree with that, necessarily.

everything the Republicans do has an extra edge to it - every policy they support tends to harm certain types/classes of people: the poor, women, minorities. LGBT, non christians.  conservatives are needlessly, pointlessly, constantly and tirelessly cruel to any/all of the above.  they do this in every way they can think of - politically, administratively, socially...its even baked into their religion.

given so many restrictive, punitive and deliberately cruel policies to so many people for so little justification its impossible NOT to conclude that the GOP/conservatives are cruel on PURPOSE.  that this petty, vindictive spite is the POINT of their actions, not an unintended side effect.


I agree.

I honestly think they want women to be broodmares AND slaves in work AND slaves at home, though.

Like, how  "How to Lie with Statistics" became a textbook instead of a warning, I swear some GOPer read the article about the woman who had kids, 3 jobs, and slept 2 hours a day and said "you know, that's a purdygood ide'er."
 
2019-03-25 11:54:21 PM  
So why have kids? Really.
 
2019-03-25 11:59:33 PM  

Weaver95: Iczer: A lot of this is the Republican party getting so thoroughly hijacked by extremists that we can't have anything that's nice anymore simply because of "ZOMG SOCIALIZM!!!!!".

everyone keeps missing the point - the cruelty isn't a side effect, its the main attraction.  this is BY DESIGN, conservatives don't want women in the workplace.  they want them at home, barefoot and pregnant.  making family leave policies as restrictive and damaging as possible is just one more way to 'convince' women not to enter the work place.


Agreed. This is driven by business because fewer women in the workplace will prove that fewer individuals are needed thus not needing to pay more and keep that sweet cash.

We are a morally bankrupt nation.
 
2019-03-26 12:03:12 AM  

Ambivalence: Gubbo: Ambivalence: Having a child is a very rare event. Once or twice in the life of most women. Sometimes more, sometimes never. There is no reason why businesses can't buy some kind of maternity/paternity insurance to pay their employees' wages during a 6 week baby leave.

Parents shouldn't have to steal from their retirement to pay for baby leave.

6 weeks? Try aim a little higher to match the rest of 1st World

6 weeks IS better than nothing.

And while we're at it, when the hell did Americans embrace the "can't do" attitude. We settle for crap from so many directions and from so many sources, not just our government. Why are we even asking ourselves if this is the best we can do like we don't deserve good things. Other countries have nice things like single payer/public healthcare and family leave because their people DEMAND it for themselves. But America is too busy screwing each over and telling each other to go fark themselves so we get crap.


Four decades of the idea that we are at the mercy of the job creators, and government the enemy so we can't let its dirty fingers do anything for us. You know, Republicans. Welcome to late stage capitalism, employee, now pick up that can.
 
2019-03-26 12:06:27 AM  
Recession is Coming.
//All thanks to Trump
Soon, many of you won't have to worry about jobs... especially you rural Republicans.
//but we meant to cut other people's welfare
 
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