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(Slate)   Graffiti loving, non-property owner feigns confusion over the difference between a fine and restitution   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Police, little San Diego suburb, Constable, San Diego County Jail, law enforcement's ability, police departments, elaborate graffiti, first time  
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5435 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2019 at 12:15 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-03-24 10:35:51 AM  
good.jpg Not getting any sympathy from me.

TFA goes on to mention police AI, surveillance, tracking, etc. Yes, there are real concerns. There are license plate readers all over the place and the cops are storing that info. That is likely unconstitutional.

However, that is far different than the city taking pictures at every grafitti crime scene for use later. That is actual evidence of a crime, minor as some would argue it to be. Driving around is certainly not a crime so it's a different concern when that info is stored.
 
2019-03-24 11:40:46 AM  
Graffiti goes against the principle of "if you're good at something never do it for free". If you're any good put it on a canvas and make money, or at least get the property owners to pay you to decorate their wall. Also, if you suck at it, don't do it publicly.
 
2019-03-24 12:21:50 PM  
Moral of the story: Change your moniker just as often as you change your password

/And don't reuse your moniker on every site
 
2019-03-24 12:23:25 PM  
I like how Slate tries to paint the graffito as a victim and tries to paint him in a sympathetic light by trying to say that his graffiti was therapy for his depression.
 
2019-03-24 12:24:21 PM  
Put that on canvas and sell it.
 
2019-03-24 12:24:52 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-24 12:25:42 PM  
Yep, you may call it 'street art', but I'm calling in vandalism and I'm also calling the cops when you assholes tag the fence again.
 
2019-03-24 12:28:58 PM  
Was his tag, "Marv" or "Harry"?
 
2019-03-24 12:30:46 PM  
This seems to be pretty easy to abuse. Tagger A dislikes Tagger B so Tagger A does a lot of tagging using B's style and signature then leaks to the authorities that Tagger A is at this location right now tagging whatever. Then Tagger A gets blamed for Tagger B's 'work' and pays out the wazoo.
 
2019-03-24 12:35:33 PM  

Interceptor1: This seems to be pretty easy to abuse. Tagger A dislikes Tagger B so Tagger A does a lot of tagging using B's style and signature then leaks to the authorities that Tagger A is at this location right now tagging whatever. Then Tagger A gets blamed for Tagger B's 'work' and pays out the wazoo.


Unless Tagger A gets caught in the act, in which case he's really hosed.
 
2019-03-24 12:36:11 PM  

EvilEgg: Graffiti goes against the principle of "if you're good at something never do it for free". If you're any good put it on a canvas and make money, or at least get the property owners to pay you to decorate their wall. Also, if you suck at it, don't do it publicly.


You have to start somewhere. I used to carve things into rocks (not national monuments or anything like that, tho that is quite easy), sand bluffs, streets, sidewalks, friends cars... Then made the switch (but never caught) to something that actually pays and spent a lot of years being a volunteer for art museums and working as a designer, into printing and a stint as an advertising manager. You have to be seen to get noticed so the risk is inherent and there's too little urban space allowed for expression, with too many design restrictions, even in my rural burg.

I can understand the cost as I've had to remove garbage art from buildings that were nothing more than unintelligible signatures by oversized 5 year olds. It's not cheap.

Anyway, a shameless plug for a personal friend that went from tagging to stencil art that now resides in restaurants worldwide, universities, and NFL stadiums: https://www.mathewcurran.co​m/
 
2019-03-24 12:37:58 PM  
ftfa: ''$10,000 is also the maximum fine allowed by California law for crimes that include robbery and rape.''

What?  A CA robber could seriously injure & permanently disable someone and yet the highest fine would be $10,000?!?

/ I do believe that all punishments for crimes should also include required restitution to the victim.   It doesn't matter if the victim was insured - if you damaged their family or their stuff then you should have to pay for it to be fixed/restored.
 
2019-03-24 12:38:44 PM  

sprgrss: I like how Slate tries to paint the graffito as a victim and tries to paint him in a sympathetic light by trying to say that his graffiti was therapy for his depression.


It can be therapy. Why do you dismiss it as nonsense? Hobbies help sooth and clear your mind. Let the guy do what he's gotta do to cope. Or are you suggesting more expensive therapy with also expensive prescription drugs?
 
2019-03-24 12:40:58 PM  

Dork Gently: Interceptor1: This seems to be pretty easy to abuse. Tagger A dislikes Tagger B so Tagger A does a lot of tagging using B's style and signature then leaks to the authorities that Tagger A is at this location right now tagging whatever. Then Tagger A gets blamed for Tagger B's 'work' and pays out the wazoo.

Unless Tagger A gets caught in the act, in which case he's really hosed.


Gamgbangers and wannabes do more of that. Open hostility between street artists is pretty uncommon.
 
2019-03-24 12:41:01 PM  
I suppose it depends on how good a defence lawyer you have. I would think that merely catching someone in the act of tagging once would not provide for fines for other past tags beyond a reasonable doubt. But there is a LOT that prosecutors get away with when overworked, underfunded public defenders have to manage the case.

Something like this might even have to make it to the Supreme Court which most teen taggers could never afford.

Still, that's arguing technicalities. The truth is if you habitually vandalize property requiring the sort of city resources the subject of the article did, you deserve to have to pay back every dollar.

Baring a statute of limitations to automatically drop instances from an historical account, I am actually in favor of this technology. Graffiti is such an inconsiderate, destructive act, it would be great to keep those that do it accountable. If they're adults.

When I was a kid, I threw a rock through a window while playing with a friend. Dad found out and I had to work to pay back the cost to replace the window and more... I never did anything like that again. Kids do stupid stuff, but shouldn't be responsible for the consequences forever.

Unfortunately uncorrected bad behavior in childhood often translates to bad behavior in adulthood, so ???
 
2019-03-24 12:43:26 PM  
So if a rapist is caught in the act and his DNA matches several previous cases should they only charge him for the one?
 
2019-03-24 12:43:31 PM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size

The law, asshole. Stop breaking it you must.
 
2019-03-24 12:44:24 PM  
"He had started tagging in his early teens as part of learning to cope with a severe case of depression. "

Here's an alternative. Instead of vandalizing other people's property:
66.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-24 12:47:46 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Moral of the story: Change your moniker just as often as you change your password

/And don't reuse your moniker on every site


Wrong.   You are condoning illegal behavior.  Changing your password protects you. Changing your moniker means that you are still defacing the property of others
The moral of the story should be to stop tagging.   Respect other people's property and rights. Maybe build a fence around your house and have at that, on your side of the fence.. Put it on canvas and try to sell it.  Actions have consequences. The guy that was tagging everything around here got a liberal helping of birdshot from one property owner, and a beatdown from another.  I approve.
 
2019-03-24 12:48:19 PM  
I manage ~30 social / affordable / co-op properties and I've been keeping track of graffiti for years. Firstly, it's a good way to find out what gangs are active in an area, secondly my budgets are tight and I don't have the funds to remove graffiti but I get fined if I don't, so when I catch someone in the act you're dammed right I stick them (or their parents) with the bill. I also let all my tenants know the relationship between graffiti and repairs not being made: If I have to spend $3000 to remove tags that's $3000 in other repairs I can't make, so if you want stuff fixed then keep your kids under control and don't turn a blind eye to tagging. As a bonus sometimes my tenants decide to deal with the graffiti "artists" themselves.

Easiest catch: We started seeing a very unique tag around a property. A few months later I was doing unit inspections and saw that same tag in some kid's bedroom and in the basement where he and his friends hung out. It's not like he was hiding it either because the tags were in plain view in the house as well as a huge collection of spray paint and markers. The police even found pics of all his tags on his phone. Mom is paying $200/month against a ~$5000 bill as a good lesson to not turn a blind eye to her kid's assholery.

Best bit of schadenfreude: A neighbor near one of my properties was the first person to complain about graffiti. Whenever a tag appeared she's call the on-site staff, my assistant, me, the city, etc. daily until it was gone. We caught her little bastard kid red handed one night and hung her with ~$2500 in clean-up charges. She put her house up for sale after that.
 
2019-03-24 12:49:57 PM  
I want someone to paint graffiti on my privacy fence.  I need to post that and hopefully someone will do it for me.
 
2019-03-24 12:51:02 PM  

Interceptor1: This seems to be pretty easy to abuse. Tagger A dislikes Tagger B so Tagger A does a lot of tagging using B's style and signature then leaks to the authorities that Tagger A is at this location right now tagging whatever. Then Tagger A gets blamed for Tagger B's 'work' and pays out the wazoo.


It's unlikely they would get a good match.  It's like someone faking a signature on a document. One person reflexively makes a signature, the other is drawing a picture of the signature.  It may look the same overall, but if you check strokes, density, overspray, it's different.
 
2019-03-24 12:52:01 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: sprgrss: I like how Slate tries to paint the graffito as a victim and tries to paint him in a sympathetic light by trying to say that his graffiti was therapy for his depression.

It can be therapy. Why do you dismiss it as nonsense? Hobbies help sooth and clear your mind. Let the guy do what he's gotta do to cope. Or are you suggesting more expensive therapy with also expensive prescription drugs?


I dismiss it as nonsense because it is nothing more than an excuse for him to go out and damage other people's property.
 
2019-03-24 12:55:02 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: sprgrss: I like how Slate tries to paint the graffito as a victim and tries to paint him in a sympathetic light by trying to say that his graffiti was therapy for his depression.

It can be therapy. Why do you dismiss it as nonsense? Hobbies help sooth and clear your mind. Let the guy do what he's gotta do to cope. Or are you suggesting more expensive therapy with also expensive prescription drugs?


Maybe start painting happy trees, perhaps? Basically any type of art that doesn't cause harm to other people's property.
 
2019-03-24 12:57:02 PM  

nanim: ftfa: ''$10,000 is also the maximum fine allowed by California law for crimes that include robbery and rape.''

What?  A CA robber could seriously injure & permanently disable someone and yet the highest fine would be $10,000?!?

/ I do believe that all punishments for crimes should also include required restitution to the victim.   It doesn't matter if the victim was insured - if you damaged their family or their stuff then you should have to pay for it to be fixed/restored.


Fines and restitution are different. Fines go to the State as punishment, restitution goes to the victims as compensation for their injuries- be it physical, mental, or property. The taggers in TFA are actually paying restitution for the cost of cleaning up their vandalism, not a fine to the State as a deterrent.

The article also seems to interrelate "tagging" with "graffiti." Graffiti is more of an artistic expression compared to tagging which is just spray painting your signature all over the damn place. It would be easier to document tagging than graffiti, because the whole idea is it is your signature. This existed as a tactic by law enforcement well before databases though. They just used binders of photographs instead of computers at least as far back as '92, because that's when my bosses son got caught and charged with multiple counts.

TFA also glosses over what seems to be a glaring issue with charging him with 100+ acts. Wouldn't you have to prove each and every instance beyond a reasonable doubt? It's not DNA or a fingerprint after all.

There are a lot of issues related to our criminal justice system, which this article seemed to take as a starting point before missing all the details that mattered.
 
2019-03-24 12:57:39 PM  
Commit multiple crimes, leave evidence, eventually get caught, get prosecuted and sentenced for each crime - pretty simple really.
If a serial rapist leaves genetic evidence with each crime and eventually gets caught by a DNA database you prosecute and sentence them for each instance.
 
2019-03-24 12:59:11 PM  
From TFA: "For comparison, $10,000 is also the maximum fine allowed by California law for crimes that include robbery and rape. So it seems hard to imagine that lawmakers would choose for an $87,000 fine to be the possible consequence of a first-time graffiti arrest."

What if forensic evidence links the perpetrator to 217 other rape cases, dumbass?  That article was written by an imbecile.
 
2019-03-24 12:59:36 PM  
An anonymous street artist vandal painting colorful graffiti on vandalizing a public wall.

Fixed the image caption.
 
2019-03-24 01:01:46 PM  
Painting over all Kyle's handiwork, prosecutors claimed, had cost the county almost $100,000, and that sort of damage came with life-changing consequences. Ultimately, he made a plea deal: one year of incarceration, five years of probation, and more than $87,000 in restitution.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-24 01:02:32 PM  

Big Lee: From TFA: "For comparison, $10,000 is also the maximum fine allowed by California law for crimes that include robbery and rape. So it seems hard to imagine that lawmakers would choose for an $87,000 fine to be the possible consequence of a first-time graffiti arrest."

What if forensic evidence links the perpetrator to 217 other rape cases, dumbass?  That article was written by an imbecile.


No it was written by the best of the smartest. That's how he landed a job with Slate...hmm
Ok nevermind, maybe you do have a point there. Carry on.
 
2019-03-24 01:10:06 PM  

FarkingStan: When I was a kid, I threw a rock through a window while playing with a friend. Dad found out and I had to work to pay back the cost to replace the window and more... I never did anything like that again. Kids do stupid stuff, but shouldn't be responsible for the consequences forever.


So if your dad only found out 10 years later, should you have been able to get away with zero consequences?
 
2019-03-24 01:13:00 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Moral of the story: Change your moniker just as often as you change your password

/And don't reuse your moniker on every site


That kinda defeats the purpose of a moniker
 
2019-03-24 01:17:35 PM  
non-property owner

I've been reading too much philosophy.  My brain struggled for 90 seconds trying to grasp how one can own something that by definition is unowned.  (I suppose maybe Marx... )

blog.chron.comView Full Size


Then Russel Monroe whispered in my right ear:

non property-owner

Ahh...

comicallyquirky.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-24 01:20:07 PM  

Interceptor1: This seems to be pretty easy to abuse. Tagger A dislikes Tagger B so Tagger A does a lot of tagging using B's style and signature then leaks to the authorities that Tagger A is at this location right now tagging whatever. Then Tagger A gets blamed for Tagger B's 'work' and pays out the wazoo.


This situation can easily be avoided by both Taggers not vandalizing people's property.
 
2019-03-24 01:23:12 PM  
Fark this guy!  Fark him and anyone like him.  If you feel sorry for him read below CSB:

In the mid 2000's I owned a small IT business with a couple of guys.  We had a warehouse in one of the cities surrounding Denver, CO.  Some idiot thought it would be fun to tag the side of our warehouse, the entire side.  All good until 2 days later Code Enforcement tells us that we have 30 days to repaint our warehouse or get fined (they had an ordinance to reduce graffiti, thinking was that if a building was tagged it would attract others to tag other buildings).

It cost us $10K to repaint, the business didn't have that kind of cash and you can't cut the salaries of your employees, so the 3 owners had to take a cut in their take home pay of about $1,500 a month to cover the cost.

Now, if the idiot in this story wants to come apologize to my wife for making her cry every night wondering how the bills were going to get paid for 2 months!  If he wants to come explain to my 6 year old daughter (then) why we are having beans and rice for dinner for the third time this week.  I might, get a little forgiveness in my heart...
 
2019-03-24 01:31:07 PM  
I work on a Navy Base and it's protected by a fence with wooden slats that could be a target for tagging or grafitti, and there are certianly things in the area that get tagged.

But nobody tags the fence, because nobody can out paint the US Navy.  If you tag a navy fence, it's going to be painted over by 0800.
 
2019-03-24 01:32:57 PM  
Guy deserves everything he got.  On the other hand it is also an argument for strong community policing.  Find prosecute, and punish people at the first offense, and they may learn something.  Wait until you can prove 100k in damages and they will likely never see a path out and won't choose to reform.
 
2019-03-24 01:34:50 PM  
I don't like graffiti, but if a 16 year old kid tags a bunch of places I don't think he should have to pay the full price to have it repaired.  I get the idea of restitution, and I'm for it... with limits.  There is a level where if you go after the full cost you are going to trap that kid with penalties that are going to ruin his life.  Maybe we need graffiti insurance.  You can call restitution something different than punishment but at some point that's all it is.  Someone does $100k in damage, make them pay something, but $100k for most people is going to change the course of their lives.

Some countries have fine systems based on income.  I'd be happier with something like that.  Fix damages relative to their income... you can leave it open ended... charge a percentage of their future earnings.  Straight restitution and a rich kid's parents are going to pay it off for them and a poor kid's family isn't going to be able to send any of their kids to college.  Charge both kids the same percentage of future earnings put the excess into a general fund to clean up graffiti.  Require kids who get caught to spend time helping paint over it.  If they actually can paint, get them to work on public murals.
 
2019-03-24 01:38:10 PM  

Brandi Morgan: But nobody tags the fence, because nobody can out paint the US Navy. If you tag a navy fence, it's going to be painted over by 0800.


It's also pretty well known that the Navy has guns. Lots of them. And they know how to use them.
 
2019-03-24 01:40:46 PM  
I used to think "hey this 'Gato' farker who tags my building's mailbox ever two weeks leaves his 'name' everywhere he goes; how come the police can't stop him"

Guess they just needed a computer.
 
2019-03-24 01:42:43 PM  
It's $1000 a week to rent a bucket lift.  It's $200 for a paint sprayer.  It couldn't have been more than $300 in paint.  You had employees.  Were any of them a janitor or facilities maintenance person who you could put on the task?  Hell did any of the owners have an able back and the gumption to do what it took to keep the business going?  IT might be white collar but if you run a business you better be prepared to wear a blue collar every once in a while.


MaelstromFL: Fark this guy!  Fark him and anyone like him.  If you feel sorry for him read below CSB:

In the mid 2000's I owned a small IT business with a couple of guys.  We had a warehouse in one of the cities surrounding Denver, CO.  Some idiot thought it would be fun to tag the side of our warehouse, the entire side.  All good until 2 days later Code Enforcement tells us that we have 30 days to repaint our warehouse or get fined (they had an ordinance to reduce graffiti, thinking was that if a building was tagged it would attract others to tag other buildings).

It cost us $10K to repaint, the business didn't have that kind of cash and you can't cut the salaries of your employees, so the 3 owners had to take a cut in their take home pay of about $1,500 a month to cover the cost.

Now, if the idiot in this story wants to come apologize to my wife for making her cry every night wondering how the bills were going to get paid for 2 months!  If he wants to come explain to my 6 year old daughter (then) why we are having beans and rice for dinner for the third time this week.  I might, get a little forgiveness in my heart...

 
2019-03-24 01:44:39 PM  

D_PaulAngel: nanim: ftfa: ''$10,000 is also the maximum fine allowed by California law for crimes that include robbery and rape.''

What?  A CA robber could seriously injure & permanently disable someone and yet the highest fine would be $10,000?!?

/ I do believe that all punishments for crimes should also include required restitution to the victim.   It doesn't matter if the victim was insured - if you damaged their family or their stuff then you should have to pay for it to be fixed/restored.

Fines and restitution are different. Fines go to the State as punishment, restitution goes to the victims as compensation for their injuries- be it physical, mental, or property. The taggers in TFA are actually paying restitution for the cost of cleaning up their vandalism, not a fine to the State as a deterrent.

The article also seems to interrelate "tagging" with "graffiti." Graffiti is more of an artistic expression compared to tagging which is just spray painting your signature all over the damn place. It would be easier to document tagging than graffiti, because the whole idea is it is your signature. This existed as a tactic by law enforcement well before databases though. They just used binders of photographs instead of computers at least as far back as '92, because that's when my bosses son got caught and charged with multiple counts.

TFA also glosses over what seems to be a glaring issue with charging him with 100+ acts. Wouldn't you have to prove each and every instance beyond a reasonable doubt? It's not DNA or a fingerprint after all.

There are a lot of issues related to our criminal justice system, which this article seemed to take as a starting point before missing all the details that mattered.


The effects of graffiti or tagging are the same : defacing the property of others. Stop doing it.
 
2019-03-24 01:45:06 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Moral of the story: Change your moniker just as often as you change your password

/And don't reuse your moniker on every site


They are destroying other peoples property for recognition its how the scene works, changing the moniker removes the ego part. Good job on the policing part, they get what they deserve. It costs 1000's of dollars to fix that bullshiat and the comparison to a rape fine is BS, vandalism doesn't come with 25 years to life, and past speeding offenses you didn't get caught for didn't cost anyone any money either other then the speeder in increased fuel prices.
 
2019-03-24 01:50:47 PM  

dasc: It's $1000 a week to rent a bucket lift.  It's $200 for a paint sprayer.  It couldn't have been more than $300 in paint.  You had employees.  Were any of them a janitor or facilities maintenance person who you could put on the task?  Hell did any of the owners have an able back and the gumption to do what it took to keep the business going?  IT might be white collar but if you run a business you better be prepared to wear a blue collar every once in a while.


MaelstromFL: Fark this guy!  Fark him and anyone like him.  If you feel sorry for him read below CSB:

In the mid 2000's I owned a small IT business with a couple of guys.  We had a warehouse in one of the cities surrounding Denver, CO.  Some idiot thought it would be fun to tag the side of our warehouse, the entire side.  All good until 2 days later Code Enforcement tells us that we have 30 days to repaint our warehouse or get fined (they had an ordinance to reduce graffiti, thinking was that if a building was tagged it would attract others to tag other buildings).

It cost us $10K to repaint, the business didn't have that kind of cash and you can't cut the salaries of your employees, so the 3 owners had to take a cut in their take home pay of about $1,500 a month to cover the cost.

Now, if the idiot in this story wants to come apologize to my wife for making her cry every night wondering how the bills were going to get paid for 2 months!  If he wants to come explain to my 6 year old daughter (then) why we are having beans and rice for dinner for the third time this week.  I might, get a little forgiveness in my heart...


You should therefore donate your time and money to do what you quoted.   Out of curiosity, what would be your reaction if you owned that building and had to pay all that due to some selfish asshole with a can of spray paint ?
 
2019-03-24 01:51:14 PM  
I've got zero sympathy for taggers and graffiti painters who violate personal space and damage other people's property like this. They don't make a grumpy cat "good" jpeg large enough to communicate my satisfaction at reading how that shiatstain tagger got punished.
 
2019-03-24 02:08:20 PM  
I actually like graffiti. Well, decent graffiti. Done in places where graffiti is tolerated. Easily identified by years of layered graffiti in those places. In my city, that's typically under bridges by railroad tracks.

The other stuff, what this person is doing, is just a costly nuisance. The restitution verdict massively sucks for him, but is entirely appropriate. It sounds like a great policy that I hope keeps spreading.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-24 02:10:35 PM  

HoratioGates: I don't like graffiti, but if a 16 year old kid tags a bunch of places I don't think he should have to pay the full price to have it repaired.  I get the idea of restitution, and I'm for it... with limits.  There is a level where if you go after the full cost you are going to trap that kid with penalties that are going to ruin his life.  Maybe we need graffiti insurance.  You can call restitution something different than punishment but at some point that's all it is.  Someone does $100k in damage, make them pay something, but $100k for most people is going to change the course of their lives.

Some countries have fine systems based on income.  I'd be happier with something like that.  Fix damages relative to their income... you can leave it open ended... charge a percentage of their future earnings.  Straight restitution and a rich kid's parents are going to pay it off for them and a poor kid's family isn't going to be able to send any of their kids to college.  Charge both kids the same percentage of future earnings put the excess into a general fund to clean up graffiti.  Require kids who get caught to spend time helping paint over it.  If they actually can paint, get them to work on public murals.


You're right, the victims of the crime should be the ones to pay - if they didn't want to fork out the money they shouldn't have been victimized by the criminal.  They were just ASKING for it by wearing those nicely painted walls.

You say paying to fix the damage that is done will  "change the course of their lives" - maybe that's a good thing.  If you are causing thousands of dollars of damage with your anti-social activities then the course of your life NEEDS to be changed.  Damaging other people's property causes real damages - this isn't compensation for "pain and suffering", it's actual money out of actual people's pockets.  Why should I have to pay for it because the kid refuses to take responsibility for his actions?

I fully support your idea of having the vandals work off the restitution by painting over graffiti, but there are still monetary concerns - paint, supplies and supervision cost money.  As long as the whole debt is worked off I'm fine with it, but if these vandals are so smart and talented then it would probably be more efficient for them to get jobs in the private sector to earn the money to pay their restitution.  I doubt a junior maintenance worker for the city of San Diego makes a ton of money -- it would probably take a few years of working full time to pay off a debt of that magnitude.
 
2019-03-24 02:20:39 PM  

abiigdog: Vlad_the_Inaner: Moral of the story: Change your moniker just as often as you change your password

/And don't reuse your moniker on every site

They are destroying other peoples property for recognition its how the scene works, changing the moniker removes the ego part. Good job on the policing part, they get what they deserve. It costs 1000's of dollars to fix that bullshiat and the comparison to a rape fine is BS, vandalism doesn't come with 25 years to life, and past speeding offenses you didn't get caught for didn't cost anyone any money either other then the speeder in increased fuel prices.


Hear, hear.

Speeding is a public safety issue and tickets and fines for it are (supposed to be) a deterrent.

Tagging is a property crime.  Ego on display - "My 'art' and recognition is more important than your aesthetics/business/livelihood."
 
2019-03-24 02:20:40 PM  

nanim: ftfa: ''$10,000 is also the maximum fine allowed by California law for crimes that include robbery and rape.''

What?  A CA robber could seriously injure & permanently disable someone and yet the highest fine would be $10,000?!?

/ I do believe that all punishments for crimes should also include required restitution to the victim.   It doesn't matter if the victim was insured - if you damaged their family or their stuff then you should have to pay for it to be fixed/restored.


The fine is separate from incarceration and restitution.
 
2019-03-24 02:21:04 PM  

natazha: Interceptor1: This seems to be pretty easy to abuse. Tagger A dislikes Tagger B so Tagger A  location right now tagging whatever. Then Tagger A gets blamed for Tagger B's 'work' and pays out the wazoo.

It's unlikely they would get a good match.  It's like someone faking a signature on a document. One person reflexively makes a signature, the other is drawing a picture of the signature.  It may look the same overall, but if you check strokes, density, overspray, it's different.


While I agree with you I have to say that I seriously doubt the software is smart enough to determine a forgery. I also doubt the police care since they've got someone to blame and that's good enough for them.

/ I seem to have a low opinion of the world today
 
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  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

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