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(NBC News)   The cockpit voice recorder of October's doomed Lion Air jet depicts the pilots' frantic fight against the computer to stay aloft   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Air safety, Lion Air, Lion Air flight, controls of Lion Air flight JT610, Aviation accidents and incidents, preliminary report, first time, first officer  
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5073 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Mar 2019 at 1:35 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-03-20 12:37:09 PM  
I'm assured by the usual Fark geniuses that having a jetliner programmed to override the pilot and crash is completely normal and also the pilot's fault.
 
2019-03-20 01:21:35 PM  
I'm Afraid I Can't Do That, Dave. - HAL in "2001"
Youtube Mme2Aya_6Bc

Daisy, Daisy ....
 
2019-03-20 01:27:53 PM  
And here I was hoping to actually get to read the transcript of the CVR (even better hear it). Subby is a tease.
 
2019-03-20 01:36:13 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-20 01:36:30 PM  
They should've tried turning if off and turning it back on...
 
2019-03-20 01:40:27 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I'm assured by the usual Fark geniuses that having a jetliner programmed to override the pilot and crash is completely normal and also the pilot's fault.


Boeing had better do some effective squirming/PR; now. Every day it's looking more and more like they're guilty of negligent homicide (save your law stuff, I'm just talking perception).
 
2019-03-20 01:40:36 PM  
This is the first article I've read that lists the "faulty sensor" as a fact rather than a speculation.
 
2019-03-20 01:41:57 PM  
NBC News has not heard the cockpit voice recording or seen the transcript.

But we got you to click and read out bullsh*t anyway.  Suckers.
 
2019-03-20 01:41:59 PM  
For once, I am glad that I didn't get the chance to go on vacation this spring.
 
2019-03-20 01:43:43 PM  
Transcript
"Something wrong"
'We too low'
"Holy Fark"
*bang* *ding* 'ow'
 
2019-03-20 01:43:59 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I'm assured by the usual Fark geniuses that having a jetliner programmed to override the pilot and crash is completely normal and also the pilot's fault.


The problem is that the computer is programmed to sometimes crash the plane.  All the pilots have to do is override the computer.  That's certainly easier than fixing that computer.

That's just Stick and Rudder Flying 101, boys.

Trust me.  I know.  I could land on the aircraft carrier in Konami's Top Gun.
 
2019-03-20 01:44:45 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: I'm assured by the usual Fark geniuses that having a jetliner programmed to override the pilot and crash is completely normal and also the pilot's fault.


It does sound like they were not familiar enough with the system to understand the mode of failure.

I am not a pilot, and I don't fully understand the situation and why turning the damned thing off was not an option, but a more experienced air crew would likely have a better chance to live through this.
 
2019-03-20 01:45:29 PM  
Straighten up and fly right
 
2019-03-20 01:45:48 PM  
Reminds me of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air​_Fran​ce_Flight_447
In that case, however, the faulty data led to the crew accidentally causing a crash.
 
2019-03-20 01:46:14 PM  
Murdered by a software glitch.

This will set back self driving cars a decade.
 
2019-03-20 01:49:00 PM  

Private_Citizen: Murdered by a software glitch.

This will set back self driving cars a decade.


I'd still trust a Boeing programed car before I trusted an Orlando I-4 driver.
 
2019-03-20 01:49:04 PM  

Private_Citizen: Murdered by a software glitch.

This will set back self driving cars a decade.


GrumpyCatGood.jpg
 
2019-03-20 01:50:04 PM  

Yaw String: And here I was hoping to actually get to read the transcript of the CVR (even better hear it). Subby is a tease.


No shiat.  At least a goddamn translation.  I don't care what Sully thinks right now, I heard his on-point commentary 2-3 days ago.
 
2019-03-20 01:50:39 PM  
"they bought their tickets, they knew..."

/nm, I can't
 
2019-03-20 01:53:21 PM  
For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane's wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.

Was turning off the autopilot not an option?
 
2019-03-20 01:53:25 PM  

Private_Citizen: Murdered by a software glitch.

This will set back self driving cars a decade.


Teslas shiatty autopilot already murdered several people (not to mention a bunch of close calls) yet  people are still hyped for some reason
 
2019-03-20 01:54:13 PM  
I use to own a Dell. So I know all about fighting computers.
 
2019-03-20 01:56:16 PM  

NutWrench: For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane's wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.

Was turning off the autopilot not an option?


The MCAS only operates when the autopilot is off and the pilot is hand-flying.  There are two switches on the throttle pedestal that would have turned off the automatic trim control.
 
2019-03-20 01:56:31 PM  
They said the aircraft was flying on instruments.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-20 01:56:58 PM  
" The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water "

Yes, that does ultimately sound like the pilot's fault.  They're supposed to be bonafide experts on their aircraft.
 
2019-03-20 01:57:11 PM  

NutWrench: For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane's wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.

Was turning off the autopilot not an option?


MCAS is independent of the autopilot.
 
2019-03-20 01:57:54 PM  

NutWrench: For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane's wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.

Was turning off the autopilot not an option?


this isn't the autopilot, it's a separate system designed to compensate for the different flight characteristics of this model of the aircraft. Only if it's fed faulty data it's not obvious how to turn it off unless you've been told about it beforehand. And it seems like Boeing didn't tell enough people about that.
 
2019-03-20 02:01:19 PM  

MORB: Private_Citizen: Murdered by a software glitch.

This will set back self driving cars a decade.

Teslas shiatty autopilot already murdered several people (not to mention a bunch of close calls) yet  people are still hyped for some reason


Because commuting sucks and Fark isn't going to comment for me!
 
2019-03-20 02:02:15 PM  
That had to have been absolutely terrifying.  I'm glad I'm not able to listen to the recording
 
db2
2019-03-20 02:03:20 PM  
Investigators examining the Indonesian crash are considering how a computer ordered the plane to dive in response to data from a faulty sensor
Do you mean to tell me there's a single sensor responsible for sending a "trim way the hell down" instruction, and not at least a trio of sensors that automatically ignore any one of them that starts sending values that don't agree with the other two?
 
2019-03-20 02:03:27 PM  
The Computer is your friend.  Friend Computer wants only what is best for the plane and the people on it.  If Friend Computer decides the plane needs to become one with the ground, then only a commie mutant traitor would try to fight it.
 
2019-03-20 02:05:18 PM  

db2: Investigators examining the Indonesian crash are considering how a computer ordered the plane to dive in response to data from a faulty sensor
Do you mean to tell me there's a single sensor responsible for sending a "trim way the hell down" instruction, and not at least a trio of sensors that automatically ignore any one of them that starts sending values that don't agree with the other two?


Those two extra sensors would probably add $500 to the cost  of the airplane.

You want cheap fares, the carrier has to cut a few corners...
 
2019-03-20 02:06:50 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: " The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water "

Yes, that does ultimately sound like the pilot's fault.  They're supposed to be bonafide experts on their aircraft.


Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their the manual or include it as a part a part of training.
 
2019-03-20 02:08:59 PM  

Yaw String: NotThatGuyAgain: " The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water "

Yes, that does ultimately sound like the pilot's fault.  They're supposed to be bonafide experts on their aircraft.

Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their the manual or include it as a part a part of training.


Damn my iPad skills are for shiat.

Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their the manual, or include it as a part of training.
 
2019-03-20 02:10:12 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: " The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water "

Yes, that does ultimately sound like the pilot's fault.  They're supposed to be bonafide experts on their aircraft.


But the whole point is that Boeing has been accused of not even informing anyone - including pilots - about this issue.
 
2019-03-20 02:10:38 PM  

Yaw String: Yaw String: NotThatGuyAgain: " The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water "

Yes, that does ultimately sound like the pilot's fault.  They're supposed to be bonafide experts on their aircraft.

Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their the manual or include it as a part a part of training.

Damn my iPad skills are for shiat.

Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their the manual, or include it as a part of training.


Third try (I wish I could edit)

Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their manual, or include it as a part of their training.
 
2019-03-20 02:12:38 PM  

Promo Sapien: This is the first article I've read that lists the "faulty sensor" as a fact rather than a speculation.


Except for all the articles that mentioned the very same jet having the same issue several times in the days previous to the crash.

Lion Air farking KNEW it had a bad sensor and let it fly.
 
2019-03-20 02:14:23 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: " The pilots of a doomed Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX scoured a handbook as they struggled to understand why the jet was lurching downwards, but ran out of time before it hit the water "

Yes, that does ultimately sound like the pilot's fault.  They're supposed to be bonafide experts on their aircraft.


Boeing did not tell pilots or airlines the MCAS system existed. They also did not mention it in any manuals or documentation listing differences between the 737 and 737-MAX available to pilots. They said "It's just like the 737, all your 737 pilots don't need to do anything." and left it at that.

Hard to be an expert when critical information is being deliberately withheld.
 
2019-03-20 02:17:57 PM  
Pilots are supposed to be experts on the plane.  Definitely all the pilot's fault.  I didn't even read the manual and I beat both Zaxxon and River Raid.
 
2019-03-20 02:19:00 PM  

Yaw String: And here I was hoping to actually get to read the transcript of the CVR (even better hear it). Subby is a tease.


What the fark?  You really want to read, or better still, hear people unsuccessfully try and save their lives.  What the fark is wrong with you?
 
2019-03-20 02:20:22 PM  

almejita: Yaw String: And here I was hoping to actually get to read the transcript of the CVR (even better hear it). Subby is a tease.

What the fark?  You really want to read, or better still, hear people unsuccessfully try and save their lives.  What the fark is wrong with you?


That is one of the ways we learn. From other's mistakes.
 
2019-03-20 02:20:43 PM  

NutWrench: For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane's wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.

Was turning off the autopilot not an option?


They had 9 minutes of a stall warning they knew to be wrong?  Was there no procedure for a faulty trim setting, or setting the trim by hand?

Yeah, Boeing farked up by not including MCAS in the specs, but it's also a systemic issue of training and experience.  Airlines hire what they can afford; good pilots go to work for good companies.  Sully got the big bucks because he had been a fighter pilot and had 20+ years in commercial aviation.  Those 2 factors allowed him to make all the right calls in the 2 minutes or so that mattered.

Pay $250K/yr with benefits, and a lot of military pilots would be retiring from their respective services to go fly out of Asia or Africa.
 
2019-03-20 02:20:44 PM  
"If it's Boeing, I'm not going..."
 
2019-03-20 02:20:49 PM  

devine: It does sound like they were not familiar enough with the system to understand the mode of failure.


If they didn't notice the trim settings of the aircraft they were amazingly incompetent and/or negligent pilots.
 
2019-03-20 02:21:19 PM  

Private_Citizen: Murdered by a software glitch.

This will set back self driving cars a decade.


This was not a GLITCH.  This was software that sent commands, unknown to the pilot, to override the pilot if manual adjustments to the angle of attack (as registered by the sensor) were made.

This is the most bigliest lawsuit waiting to happen in the history of lawsuits.  Who do you think a jury will side with: Hal.  Dave. (and know Dave was uninformed of the mission)
 
2019-03-20 02:22:39 PM  

Yaw String: Hard to be an expert when the manufacturer doesn't bother to mention that this system is onboard, and didn't put in their the manual or include it as a part a part of training.


Disabling electric trim has been in the flight manual for 52 years. Half a century. Longer than lots of people's adult lifespan.
 
2019-03-20 02:23:15 PM  
I guess, on the bright side, Seattle real estate may become more affordable.
 
2019-03-20 02:23:27 PM  
But were they able to figure out whether the pilot had the steak or the fish?

Because I'm pretty sure the doctor on board had the lasagna.
 
2019-03-20 02:23:58 PM  

Cyrene Valantion: NutWrench: For the next nine minutes, the jet warned pilots it was in a stall and pushed the nose down in response, the report showed. A stall is when the airflow over a plane's wings is too weak to generate lift and keep it flying.

Was turning off the autopilot not an option?

this isn't the autopilot, it's a separate system designed to compensate for the different flight characteristics of this model of the aircraft. Only if it's fed faulty data it's not obvious how to turn it off unless you've been told about it beforehand. And it seems like Boeing didn't tell enough people about that.


It seems obvious how to turn if off (it's not like the switches are hidden), but you have to know what is happening to respond properly. The crew might think its the autopilot, turn that off, and not realize the computer is still adjusting the trim.
 
2019-03-20 02:23:58 PM  

db2: Investigators examining the Indonesian crash are considering how a computer ordered the plane to dive in response to data from a faulty sensor
Do you mean to tell me there's a single sensor responsible for sending a "trim way the hell down" instruction, and not at least a trio of sensors that automatically ignore any one of them that starts sending values that don't agree with the other two?


The 737 has 2 angle of attack sensors, but the MCAS only used one of them with no cross-checks.  That's because Boeing didn't classify the failure of it has a hazardous condition and they even changed the amount of trim that they had told the FAA it would use (from 0.6 degrees to 2.5) and they didn't limit the number of time it would do it if the pilot overrode it.  Those will supposedly be part of Boeing's fix.
 
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