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(New Zealand Herald)   New Zealand mosque employee grabbed gun from gunman's hands, chased him off   (nzherald.co.nz) divider line
    More: Hero, American films, English-language films, Death, Old age, survivor of the Al Noor Mosque, Gerontology, Al-Nobani, Al Noor mosque  
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5695 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2019 at 12:43 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-03-15 12:44:30 PM  
Give that employee a medal.
 
2019-03-15 12:46:12 PM  
bravery on a scale few will understand.
 
2019-03-15 12:47:51 PM  

asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.


I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.
 
2019-03-15 12:49:01 PM  
So this was at the second mosque, where only seven or so folks were killed?  That makes a great deal more sense now.  At one of the two locations the shooter roamed free; at the other he got chased off quick.   While I understand the run, hide, fight metric, it sure seems like fight ended up the best choice for those folks.

No, this is not an "arm everybody post."  I just mean that a group of motivated victims-to-be can quickly overwhelm a single attacker, albeit at the cost of a few of their lives.  Sadly it may be time to re-calibrate thinking to more of a "Let's Roll" 9/11 model, when you assume you're already dead at the moment you see the bad racist with the gun.
 
2019-03-15 12:50:07 PM  
You know what takes a lot less courage than that? Standing up to the tiny acts of bigotry that you see in your daily life which, left unchecked, lead to horrible events like today.
 
2019-03-15 12:50:45 PM  
according to people who watched the video, someone attempted to stop him at the first location too 😔
 
2019-03-15 12:50:46 PM  
Of course the Breitbart idiots are claiming that the Mosque was armed.
 
2019-03-15 12:50:59 PM  

bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.


No one really knows what they'd do.  I have no idea and I sure as hell hope I never have to find out.  There's not a whole lot of time to think in that situation.
 
2019-03-15 12:51:27 PM  
How dare he? Now another lunatic nazi will have to run amok and kill another 40+ people to defend the honor of his ilk. Those muslims just don't have any sense for responsability.
 
2019-03-15 12:51:32 PM  

Warthog: So this was at the second mosque, where only seven or so folks were killed?  That makes a great deal more sense now.  At one of the two locations the shooter roamed free; at the other he got chased off quick.   While I understand the run, hide, fight metric, it sure seems like fight ended up the best choice for those folks.

No, this is not an "arm everybody post."  I just mean that a group of motivated victims-to-be can quickly overwhelm a single attacker, albeit at the cost of a few of their lives.  Sadly it may be time to re-calibrate thinking to more of a "Let's Roll" 9/11 model, when you assume you're already dead at the moment you see the bad racist with the gun.


The realization that this guy probably saved dozens of lives at the risk of his own is sobering.
 
2019-03-15 12:51:42 PM  

bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.


You're human. Who wouldn't be scared to grim death? I gotta applaud this guy, though. That takes quite a bit of resolve and courage.
 
2019-03-15 12:51:44 PM  

Warthog: So this was at the second mosque, where only seven or so folks were killed?  That makes a great deal more sense now.  At one of the two locations the shooter roamed free; at the other he got chased off quick.   While I understand the run, hide, fight metric, it sure seems like fight ended up the best choice for those folks.

No, this is not an "arm everybody post."  I just mean that a group of motivated victims-to-be can quickly overwhelm a single attacker, albeit at the cost of a few of their lives.  Sadly it may be time to re-calibrate thinking to more of a "Let's Roll" 9/11 model, when you assume you're already dead at the moment you see the bad racist with the gun.


Yeah...When instinct, adrenaline, and initial confusion set in it's very hard to guess how any individual will react in such a situation.
 
2019-03-15 12:52:25 PM  

Torgo_of_Manos: Of course the Breitbart idiots are claiming that the Mosque was armed.


Why are you paying any attention to what the Breitbart idiots are saying at a time like this? They're unhinged bigoted assholes - they're not going to suddenly have a humanitarian epiphany...
 
2019-03-15 12:53:27 PM  

Action Replay Nick: You know what takes a lot less courage than that? Standing up to the tiny acts of bigotry that you see in your daily life which, left unchecked, lead to horrible events like today.


Citation required
 
2019-03-15 12:54:58 PM  

bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.


Any reputable self-defense class will tell you that option #1 is run away.
 
2019-03-15 12:55:05 PM  
I keep reading NZ as an acronym for NAZI today. WTF?!

And 'Christchurch Mosque' is another thing making me go 'hmmmm'. What a weird world I live in. I think I need a social media break.
 
2019-03-15 12:55:51 PM  

Munden: according to people who watched the video, someone attempted to stop him at the first location too 😔


and also according to the article that you obviously didn't read
 
2019-03-15 12:55:52 PM  

FormlessOne: Torgo_of_Manos: Of course the Breitbart idiots are claiming that the Mosque was armed.

Why are you paying any attention to what the Breitbart idiots are saying at a time like this? They're unhinged bigoted assholes - they're not going to suddenly have a humanitarian epiphany...


Breitbart is run by Russian trolls at this point who do nothing but to stoke the flames of hate.
 
2019-03-15 12:56:11 PM  
Last week my Unitarian Youth group visited a local mosque and were welcomed with a tour and potluck.

We had a guy shoot up our liberal church becasue we welcomed gay folks (Knoxville UU 2008)
One of our members was a big guy who jumped in front of a shotgun blast. RIP Greg McKendry
(the shooting was during a musical for children)  Some other guys managed to subdue the shooter.
 
2019-03-15 12:57:51 PM  
Soooo good guy with a form tackle?
 
2019-03-15 12:58:17 PM  
Imagine how... nah I can't even make a good guy with a gun joke here.
This dude is a hero.  I am going to be doing my damned best to avoid seeing that video, I've heard nothing but horror stories already.
 
2019-03-15 12:58:28 PM  

asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.



Well said.
 
2019-03-15 12:58:57 PM  

jaytkay: bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.

Any reputable self-defense class will tell you that option #1 is run away.


That presumes an open arena with cover, as well as close range weapon. In an enclosed environment where the victims know the layout better and the shooter most likely does not have close confrontation training and presumes a compliant set of victims, confrontation is just as valid an option.
 
2019-03-15 12:59:22 PM  

Warthog: Sadly it may be time to re-calibrate thinking to more of a "Let's Roll" 9/11 model, when you assume you're already dead at the moment you see the bad racist with the gun.


proxy.duckduckgo.comView Full Size


I keed, I keed

/it was just such an easy set up
 
2019-03-15 12:59:33 PM  

Markoff_Cheney: Imagine how... nah I can't even make a good guy with a gun joke here.
This dude is a hero.  I am going to be doing my damned best to avoid seeing that video, I've heard nothing but horror stories already.



Same here.....no desire what so ever to watch it.
 
2019-03-15 01:00:18 PM  
"The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun ... he ran behind him but there were people waiting for him in the car and he fled."

Hmmmm
 
2019-03-15 01:00:47 PM  

Warthog: So this was at the second mosque, where only seven or so folks were killed?  That makes a great deal more sense now.  At one of the two locations the shooter roamed free; at the other he got chased off quick.   While I understand the run, hide, fight metric, it sure seems like fight ended up the best choice for those folks.

No, this is not an "arm everybody post."  I just mean that a group of motivated victims-to-be can quickly overwhelm a single attacker, albeit at the cost of a few of their lives.  Sadly it may be time to re-calibrate thinking to more of a "Let's Roll" 9/11 model, when you assume you're already dead at the moment you see the bad racist with the gun.


Fight is always the best approach if you can't run.  Predators can be thrown off by one victim expected to be passive resisting.  Make that 4 or 5 and you have a chance.  The Let's Roll approach is correct.  I know some people aren't capable of it but it is far better to go down fighting than just passively getting shot.

I am former military and law enforcement and even with all my training I can't predict how I would react.  .  I am stunned that anyone took a stand.  Bravo to this man
 
2019-03-15 01:01:39 PM  
Need to get a picture of the guy who did it and post it with "sheepdog" on a rw forum and watch the foam fly
 
2019-03-15 01:06:52 PM  

whither_apophis: Warthog: Sadly it may be time to re-calibrate thinking to more of a "Let's Roll" 9/11 model, when you assume you're already dead at the moment you see the bad racist with the gun.

[proxy.duckduckgo.com image 620x413]

I keed, I keed

/it was just such an easy set up


In some instances, you sadly are not wrong: https://www.documentcloud.org/​document​s/3439212-FBI-White-Supremacist-Infilt​ration-of-Law.html

/Though of course everything is blacked out of relevant info from the FBI
 
2019-03-15 01:08:38 PM  

gbv23: Last week my Unitarian Youth group visited a local mosque and were welcomed with a tour and potluck.

We had a guy shoot up our liberal church becasue we welcomed gay folks (Knoxville UU 2008)
One of our members was a big guy who jumped in front of a shotgun blast. RIP Greg McKendry
(the shooting was during a musical for children)  Some other guys managed to subdue the shooter.


I am not one who is a fan of religion but if I had to choose a church who wins the pearly gate lottery it would be the Unitarians. My wife comes from a charismatic church (I am a sceptical lapsed Catholic) and we have gone to a couple Unitarian events (masses, gatherings (I can't remember what they call them)). The welcoming general attitude to everybody is very evident. She goes to a regular woman's meetings they have every month and it has helped with her concussion recovery as there are a number of older women in the group who have dealt with health issues as well and to be frank have been much more supportive and nurturing than her mother has.
TL;DR: Unitarians are cool in my book
 
2019-03-15 01:11:34 PM  

Torgo_of_Manos: Of course the Breitbart idiots are claiming that the Mosque was armed.


Well, now it was.
"The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun"
Though it had poor gun control.
 
2019-03-15 01:11:36 PM  

rikkards_alt: Need to get a picture of the guy who did it and post it with "sheepdog" on a rw forum and watch the foam fly


He qualifies by the pure definition of the term.

"If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath-a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path."

-Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman
On Combat
 
2019-03-15 01:12:01 PM  
AngryDragon:

I am former military and law enforcement and even with all my training I can't predict how I would react.

The fear is not only getting yourself shot, but getting other people shot.
 
2019-03-15 01:12:19 PM  

Somacandra: jaytkay: bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.

Any reputable self-defense class will tell you that option #1 is run away.

That presumes an open arena with cover, as well as close range weapon. In an enclosed environment where the victims know the layout better and the shooter most likely does not have close confrontation training and presumes a compliant set of victims, confrontation is just as valid an option.

OK, Rambo. You go get 'em.
media.giphy.comView Full Size
Christ what a wanker.
 
2019-03-15 01:12:33 PM  

GungFu: I keep reading NZ as an acronym for NAZI today. WTF?!

And 'Christchurch Mosque' is another thing making me go 'hmmmm'. What a weird world I live in. I think I need a social media break.


I grew up suburban New England Catholic.  I formally opted out of the religion around age 15, but still went to a Catholic college based on it's size and academic reputation...  It was a very inclusive experience, the priests invited, hosted clergy from other religions to find common ground and to discuss what they each found divine.

I'm as atheist as can be, but there's no real problem with a mosque in Christchurch.  In theory, it's the same god, just different prophets/definitions of prophets.
 
2019-03-15 01:14:21 PM  

jaytkay: Somacandra: jaytkay: bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.

Any reputable self-defense class will tell you that option #1 is run away.

That presumes an open arena with cover, as well as close range weapon. In an enclosed environment where the victims know the layout better and the shooter most likely does not have close confrontation training and presumes a compliant set of victims, confrontation is just as valid an option.
OK, Rambo. You go get 'em.[media.giphy.com image 186x266]Christ what a wanker.


Every single thing I said was straight out of our active shooter training from the local police at our UU church. Whatever gets the situation under control is the best option.
 
2019-03-15 01:15:21 PM  

bigfire: rikkards_alt: Need to get a picture of the guy who did it and post it with "sheepdog" on a rw forum and watch the foam fly

He qualifies by the pure definition of the term.

"If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath-a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path."

-Lieutenant Colonel David Grossman
On Combat


Yeah (I am making a seriously non-pc assumption here) but he is brown and very likely a muslim, their head will asplode
 
2019-03-15 01:17:10 PM  
FTFA: He had a car with a driver and other people waiting for him outside.

I hope they find all of them and roast them alive.
 
2019-03-15 01:18:06 PM  

FormlessOne: Torgo_of_Manos: Of course the Breitbart idiots are claiming that the Mosque was armed.

Why are you paying any attention to what the Breitbart idiots are saying at a time like this? They're unhinged bigoted assholes - they're not going to suddenly have a humanitarian epiphany...


Yeah, I understand all that.  I give the Breitbart idiots no quarter.
 
2019-03-15 01:18:08 PM  

rikkards_alt: gbv23: Last week my Unitarian Youth group visited a local mosque and were welcomed with a tour and potluck.

We had a guy shoot up our liberal church becasue we welcomed gay folks (Knoxville UU 2008)
One of our members was a big guy who jumped in front of a shotgun blast. RIP Greg McKendry
(the shooting was during a musical for children)  Some other guys managed to subdue the shooter.

I am not one who is a fan of religion but if I had to choose a church who wins the pearly gate lottery it would be the Unitarians. My wife comes from a charismatic church (I am a sceptical lapsed Catholic) and we have gone to a couple Unitarian events (masses, gatherings (I can't remember what they call them)). The welcoming general attitude to everybody is very evident. She goes to a regular woman's meetings they have every month and it has helped with her concussion recovery as there are a number of older women in the group who have dealt with health issues as well and to be frank have been much more supportive and nurturing than her mother has.
TL;DR: Unitarians are cool in my book


Right there with you.  My wife grew up Catholic, and I'm the bastard son of a reformed American Jew and a German Protestant who votes "none of the above."  We were married in a UU church that we'd never attended, as some on her side of the family would have been utterly scandalized by a non-church wedding.  They were amazingly welcoming of us and seemed tolerant of all flavors of belief.  If I had to pick an organized religion, they'd be the winners.
 
2019-03-15 01:19:58 PM  

Munden: according to people who watched the video, someone attempted to stop him at the first location too 😔


He took rounds running at him and did get the gunman on the ground briefly but (in all likelihood) died in the process. The gunman was able to get back up and resume the killing. I hope we find out his name at some point.  He died a hero and how you hope you may react in such a horrible situation if there wasn't an option to escape.
 
2019-03-15 01:20:27 PM  

Znuh: FTFA: He had a car with a driver and other people waiting for him outside.

I hope they find all of them and roast them alive.


4 are in custody so hopefully that is all of them
 
2019-03-15 01:20:37 PM  

Somacandra: jaytkay: Somacandra: jaytkay: bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.

Any reputable self-defense class will tell you that option #1 is run away.

That presumes an open arena with cover, as well as close range weapon. In an enclosed environment where the victims know the layout better and the shooter most likely does not have close confrontation training and presumes a compliant set of victims, confrontation is just as valid an option.
OK, Rambo. You go get 'em.[media.giphy.com image 186x266]Christ what a wanker.

Every single thing I said was straight out of our active shooter training from the local police at our UU church. Whatever gets the situation under control is the best option.


I get what you are saying but until the situation is over the best option is not necessarily determined especially when you have unknown variables like who will freeze. In an ideal situation where everything works perfectly yes getting the shooter unarmed especially in a close quarters situation would be best but the normal citizen in the western world is not dealing with this type of situation on a daily basis to be come accustomed to it.

I would like to think that I would keep calm but I would also not be surprised I would panic like a screaming schoolgirl (no disrespect to schoolgirls)
 
2019-03-15 01:20:38 PM  
I'm not sure what's worse. The video or the comments below it.
 
2019-03-15 01:20:49 PM  

trappedspirit: "The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun ... he ran behind him but there were people waiting for him in the car and he fled."

Hmmmm


Police apparently have three men and a woman in custody. Those may be the friends.
 
2019-03-15 01:27:00 PM  
20 minutes for police to arrive? Damn.
 
2019-03-15 01:28:11 PM  

jaytkay: Somacandra: jaytkay: bobtheme: asciibaron: bravery on a scale few will understand.

I'll admit, despite the hero fantasies, my first reaction would most likely have been to run the fark away.

Any reputable self-defense class will tell you that option #1 is run away.

That presumes an open arena with cover, as well as close range weapon. In an enclosed environment where the victims know the layout better and the shooter most likely does not have close confrontation training and presumes a compliant set of victims, confrontation is just as valid an option.
OK, Rambo. You go get 'em.[media.giphy.com image 186x266]Christ what a wanker.


Except that he is right.
 
2019-03-15 01:28:43 PM  

This text is now purple: trappedspirit: "The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun ... he ran behind him but there were people waiting for him in the car and he fled."

Hmmmm

Police apparently have three men and a woman in custody. Those may be the friends.

terrorist cell

We need to start calling white terrorists the same damned thing we call other terrorists.
 
2019-03-15 01:29:38 PM  

firefly212: This text is now purple: trappedspirit: "The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun ... he ran behind him but there were people waiting for him in the car and he fled."

Hmmmm

Police apparently have three men and a woman in custody. Those may be the friends.terrorist cell

We need to start calling white terrorists the same damned thing we call other terrorists.


We also need to start calling White terrorism by exactly those words.
 
2019-03-15 01:39:07 PM  

The_Sponge: Markoff_Cheney: Imagine how... nah I can't even make a good guy with a gun joke here.
This dude is a hero.  I am going to be doing my damned best to avoid seeing that video, I've heard nothing but horror stories already.


Same here.....no desire what so ever to watch it.


Yep.  No desire here either .   I know a guy who watches the Isis beheading videos.  Why???????
 
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