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(Time)   The admissions scandal highlights the "Big Lie" about college: It has nothing to do with education and everything to do with status   (time.com) divider line
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3323 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2019 at 11:05 AM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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5 days ago  
Networking. I think the word the author was looking for was networking.

Lots of rich an influential people went to Ivies, and they send their kids to Ivies, if you want to work with those rich and influential people, people hire people like themselves, and if you are a family friend because you know their kid, even better.
 
5 days ago  
Oh come on, subby, college most certainly does have something to do with education.  Not for some people, to be sure, but definitely for many.
 
5 days ago  
It was always about status.
 
5 days ago  
If the cheaters planned to major in one of the rare subjects with clear standards and well-defined career paths - like computer science, electrical engineering or chemistry - this would be a show-stopping question.

Generally, yes.  But don't think cheating doesn't happen in CS - cheaters in CS only have to study half as hard.
 
5 days ago  

UberDave: If the cheaters planned to major in one of the rare subjects with clear standards and well-defined career paths - like computer science, electrical engineering or chemistry - this would be a show-stopping question.

Generally, yes.  But don't think cheating doesn't happen in CS - cheaters in CS only have to study half as hard.


People who figure out how to cheat in CS deserve a degree in CS.
 
5 days ago  
It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.
 
5 days ago  
People who go to college always brag about how smart they are. You don't see people in hospitals bragging about their health.

Gallagher (maybe)
 
5 days ago  
CSB:

I had a friend in college that cheated regularly - every chance she could.

She spent three years doing this, getting good grades. She was "studying" to become a nurse.

Then there came the time to take the nursing exam, proctored outside the school with no one she knew. She failed, obviously. Four times. And was very upset.

I thought it was pretty funny, and let her know. We're not friends anymore :(
 
5 days ago  

Harry Freakstorm: People who go to college always brag about how smart they are. You don't see people in hospitals bragging about their health.

Gallagher (maybe)


If someone has to brag about how smart they are, they aren't smart.
 
5 days ago  

Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.


Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?
 
5 days ago  
As always, the moral of the story is: Try your very best to be a rich white male.

If you can't do all of those, try to be at least one of those.

/apologies for the negative attitude
//some days not even wearing your lucky rocketship underpants can make things go right
///three slashies for doing everything you can
 
5 days ago  
An article on institutional elitism by a guy with Econ degrees from Berkeley and Princeton. Nice.
 
5 days ago  

JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?


I'd say Berkeley but then again, I work in the software industry.

Only thing I know of UCLA for is its basketball program.
 
5 days ago  
 
5 days ago  
Mrs. Beef went to Northwestern, certainly an upper-tier, Ivy-ish school by reputation. She said the hard part was getting in.  She did very well and it is, in fact, a very good school but she also said it wasn't all that demanding like we're led to believe.
 
5 days ago  

nmrsnr: Networking. I think the word the author was looking for was networking.

Lots of rich an influential people went to Ivies, and they send their kids to Ivies, if you want to work with those rich and influential people, people hire people like themselves, and if you are a family friend because you know their kid, even better.


It's essentially like the east Indian caste system.
 
5 days ago  

JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?


Oh the big debate of Cal v UCLA.  Lol.
 
5 days ago  

bumfuzzled: As always, the moral of the story is: Try your very best to be a rich white male.

If you can't do all of those, try to be at least one of those.

/apologies for the negative attitude
//some days not even wearing your lucky rocketship underpants can make things go right
///three slashies for doing everything you can


Well please do get better, because currently you just sound like Smelly Pirate Hooker's alt.
 
5 days ago  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
5 days ago  

Wadded Beef: Mrs. Beef went to Northwestern, certainly an upper-tier, Ivy-ish school by reputation.


Northwestern has a much stronger engineering program than most of the Ivies.

\maybe Cornell
 
5 days ago  

max_pooper: UberDave: If the cheaters planned to major in one of the rare subjects with clear standards and well-defined career paths - like computer science, electrical engineering or chemistry - this would be a show-stopping question.

Generally, yes.  But don't think cheating doesn't happen in CS - cheaters in CS only have to study half as hard.

People who figure out how to cheat in CS deserve a degree in CS.


Having the TA slip you the test topics isn't exactly some hyper-intelligent move.  Nor is copying someone's code.  However, I did know a girl who somehow got the profs test layout off the network (she offered it to me and I turned it down because I, you know, actually wanted to learn the material).

CSB - One of the strictest profs I had was in Advanced Data Structures.  He had has classes next to the labs because there was a camera, he didn't let the TA see any test material and he randomized his tests and never repeated them.  I aced that class and half of it dropped.  In other classes, I would have people who aced tests want to borrow my code - why the hell do you need my code when you're killing the test?
 
5 days ago  
My status was printed right on my BSEE: "Single and Ready to Mingle"

/soon-I cum lots-ay
 
5 days ago  
I think learning is only half of the college experience.  The social aspect play a big role.  And not the partying but working in groups, meeting diverse and different people that don't align with the bubble most kids grew up in.
 
5 days ago  
If you can get a BS in chemistry from the same Big Ten school I got mine from, and not have gained an education, you are an alien.
 
5 days ago  

Wadded Beef: Mrs. Beef went to Northwestern, certainly an upper-tier, Ivy-ish school by reputation. She said the hard part was getting in.  She did very well and it is, in fact, a very good school but she also said it wasn't all that demanding like we're led to believe.


Northwestern had the nicest tailgaters of any school I've been to.  I had my Purdue gear on and it was free hot dogs and beers from everybody.  They weren't as happy after Drew Brees threw 6 touchdowns on them, but they were still pleasant.
 
5 days ago  

Xanadone: Oh come on, subby, college most certainly does have something to do with education.  Not for some people, to be sure, but definitely for many.


You can walk around almost any college campus and sit in on almost any lecture and take notes and get educated, all for free. But that's not why people are paying massive amounts on their student loans, they need the little piece of paper at the end or else all that knowledge is "wasted."
 
5 days ago  
 
5 days ago  

JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?


UCLA is the Southern Extension who couldn't even come up w/ their own fight song, and the less said about Leland Stanfurd Jr. University, the better.
 
5 days ago  

nmrsnr: Networking. I think the word the author was looking for was networking.

Lots of rich an influential people went to Ivies, and they send their kids to Ivies, if you want to work with those rich and influential people, people hire people like themselves, and if you are a family friend because you know their kid, even better.


And this is why affirmative action cannot die.
 
5 days ago  

Xanadone: Oh come on, subby, college most certainly does have something to do with education.  Not for some people, to be sure, but definitely for many.


I have a BA in one of those LOL subjects (Communication), and yet the more common complaints I hear about applicants across all fields is that they suck at writing and suck at interpersonal communication.

I had to write a lot of papers in college. I had to learn the structure of an argument - from Cicero, from Kennedy, from Clinton, from Marx, and a host of others - and I learned how to deconstruct things like advertising and propaganda. Which, judging by the number of people who fall for it - even "smart" people - means it's not a skill everyone just "gets".

Also helped me in my nerdery as well - things like layout and UI for the various tech projects I've been involved in.

It can be an educational tool, or it can be daycare for tools. Choose wisely.

// but yeah, STEM is the one true path
// eyeroll
 
5 days ago  

Xanadone: Oh come on, subby, college most certainly does have something to do with education.  Not for some people, to be sure, but definitely for many.


A relative of mine teaches at an Ivy League university and says that the students they teach are y and large wholly uninterested in the subjects they are studying. All they care about is networking and making connections.
 
5 days ago  
I learned anything from countless viewings of Animal House is that college was always about status. Just the first few opening scenes of this movie, indicate that and I bet the writers weren't even trying.

images2.fanpop.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  

sboyle1020: bumfuzzled: As always, the moral of the story is: Try your very best to be a rich white male.

If you can't do all of those, try to be at least one of those.

/apologies for the negative attitude
//some days not even wearing your lucky rocketship underpants can make things go right
///three slashies for doing everything you can

Well please do get better, because currently you just sound like Smelly Pirate Hooker's alt.


I'm truly very sorry. I did not realize that I had sunk that deep. Self-imposed time-out for me!
 
5 days ago  
FAIL on the author and on the submitter. The PURPOSE of higher education is just that - education. The issue is that this structure, one that was created for the advancement of a people, has been perverted and twisted by those who seek status as a tool to achieve it. They have taken what was supposed to be a good thing for both individuals and society and turned it into just another way to look down upon others. "My kid went to Hah-vahd" means sh*t if they barely passed their courses and learned nothing just so they could get a cushy gig at daddy's company.

That is why we should support state and local institutions of higher learning, including community colleges. Education can make a people better, but only if that education is for the people.
 
5 days ago  

guestguy: My status was printed right on my BSEE: "Single and Ready to Mingle"

/soon-I cum lots-ay


i.chzbgr.comView Full Size


/bsee
 
5 days ago  

Marine1: JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?

I'd say Berkeley but then again, I work in the software industry.

Only thing I know of UCLA for is its basketball program.


Consistently one of the top research universities in the world, as is Stanford.
 
5 days ago  

SirEattonHogg: JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?

Oh the big debate of Cal v UCLA.  Lol.


Marine1: JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?

I'd say Berkeley but then again, I work in the software industry.

Only thing I know of UCLA for is its basketball program.


Granted, I'm not from CA and know next to nothing about the CA higher education system, but I always thought that Berkeley was the flagship for northern CA and UCLA for southern CA, more or less.

Being from the midwest/south, we have two flagships: the liberal arts school and the "tech" schools. Sometimes, they're one and the same however:

e.g. GA has UGA and GA Tech, NC has UNC and NC State, IL has the Univ. of Illinois for everything.
 
5 days ago  
Yeah, no, subby.
 
5 days ago  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
5 days ago  

Rapmaster2000: guestguy: My status was printed right on my BSEE: "Single and Ready to Mingle"

/soon-I cum lots-ay

[i.chzbgr.com image 454x289]

/bsee


media.giphy.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  

Rapmaster2000: guestguy: My status was printed right on my BSEE: "Single and Ready to Mingle"

/soon-I cum lots-ay

[i.chzbgr.com image 454x289]

/bsee


Hey, I'm also an engineer in KCMO (bottom left corner of that sign) that's not getting laid!
 
5 days ago  
Bryan Douglas Caplan (born April 8, 1971) is an American economist. Caplan is a professor of economics at George Mason University, research fellow at the Mercatus Center, adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute,https://en.wikipedia.org/​wiki/Bryan_Ca​plan


He's also a Randian.  For those who aren't familiar with it, the Mercatus Center, it is an independent Koch funded think-tank that leases space at George Mason University and is loosely affiliated with it.  Depending on the audience, they either will or will not claim to be part of GMU.  They are akin to a virus, attempting to destroy education from the inside using the prestige of being part of a university.  It's one of the Koch's more insidious schemes.
 
5 days ago  

Rapmaster2000: Wadded Beef: Mrs. Beef went to Northwestern, certainly an upper-tier, Ivy-ish school by reputation. She said the hard part was getting in.  She did very well and it is, in fact, a very good school but she also said it wasn't all that demanding like we're led to believe.

Northwestern had the nicest tailgaters of any school I've been to.  I had my Purdue gear on and it was free hot dogs and beers from everybody.  They weren't as happy after Drew Brees threw 6 touchdowns on them, but they were still pleasant.


When she was there the football program was just horrendous. Basically it was tailgating before kickoff followed by leaving to go find something else to do.
 
5 days ago  

johnny_vegas: Marine1: JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?

I'd say Berkeley but then again, I work in the software industry.

Only thing I know of UCLA for is its basketball program.

Consistently one of the top research universities in the world, as is Stanford.


But is it a top research university because of the research taking place there, or because of the social club you get to join as a result of going there?
 
5 days ago  

Rapmaster2000: guestguy: My status was printed right on my BSEE: "Single and Ready to Mingle"

/soon-I cum lots-ay

[i.chzbgr.com image 454x289]

/bsee


Image loses points for lacking a slide rule.
 
5 days ago  

Marine1: johnny_vegas: Marine1: JAGChem82: Marine1: It has to do with status in a few universities. There are a lot of universities that do a lot of good research and that do a lot to expand the minds of young people.

Very few of those are supposedly "elite" universities. Your state's flagship public university will do more to advance the world than Stanford and UCLA do.

Isn't UCLA the state flagship of CA? Or at least second to UC-Berkeley?

I'd say Berkeley but then again, I work in the software industry.

Only thing I know of UCLA for is its basketball program.

Consistently one of the top research universities in the world, as is Stanford.

But is it a top research university because of the research taking place there, or because of the social club you get to join as a result of going there?


Partly because of the amount of money they devote to research
 
5 days ago  
Lots of people go to college to learn pottery.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size


Outside of certain fields, you can get a quality education at a much cheaper community college. Hell, even a $1.50 in late fees at the public library and free webinars. However, who is an employer going to pick, the Ivy League grad or someone who went to Bumfark Polytech regardless of their grade?
 
5 days ago  

Trocadero: Xanadone: Oh come on, subby, college most certainly does have something to do with education.  Not for some people, to be sure, but definitely for many.

You can walk around almost any college campus and sit in on almost any lecture and take notes and get educated, all for free. But that's not why people are paying massive amounts on their student loans, they need the little piece of paper at the end or else all that knowledge is "wasted."


Well, it's more than that.  You can get the equivalent of a full college education through online places like Coursera or EdX.  All the classes are there- go ahead and take them.  I've done a bunch and learned a lot

Except that if you look at the completion rate of these courses, it's dismal.  Worse, the folks who do complete it are people like me- folks who already have college/advanced degrees.

Learning new, complex concepts is *hard*.  Way, way harder than most of us are willing to admit.  College learning really isn't about the lecture, it's the support system built around it.  Being able to talk to other students, drop in to see the professor, talk to your advisor, visit the writing center, etc.  (And if you think anyone learning a STEM other than CS will have the needed equipment at home, you're nuts)  You may not need that, but 90% of the rest of the world does.
 
5 days ago  
Some people do better by not going to college.

im2.ezgif.comView Full Size
 
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