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(Slate)   "Parenting is supposed to involve both parties when applicable. When I wake up to take care of the baby, I feel my husband should too; this is a partnership. Yet my husband thinks I'm crazy and doesn't want to do it. Who's right here?"   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Infant, Family, appropriate get-togethers, Pacifier, 11-year-old son, high-energy kids, school friends, younger son  
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447 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 15 Mar 2019 at 9:05 AM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



55 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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5 days ago  
"Involving both parties" doesn't mean "every task or responsibility is split 50/50". Having both parents lose sleep on principle is ridiculous; you should be tag-teaming your schedules and tasks to help ensure that at least one of you is in good shape (mentally and physically) at all times to help cover for when the other isn't. I'm a light sleeper but my wife needs her full night in order to even consider being functional the next day, so I've usually been the one to get up (and still am; our older son has a lot of fitful sleep).
 
5 days ago  
Your husband is wrong for marrying a crazy biatch
 
5 days ago  
I thought it was well-established that parents take turns on this.
 
5 days ago  
It defeats the purpose of "taking turns" if you both get up. If breastfeeding is the issue then pump and let your husband use the pumped milk. Also, while some babies won't switch between formula and breastmilk, most will, so that's an option too. And no, despite what the parenting purists say, supplemental feeding with formula won't harm your kid (unless you're buying Chinese formula fortified with melamine). If you're so neurotic that you feel both parents should get up just to ensure equity you're probably not ready to be a parent.
 
5 days ago  

Fireproof: I thought it was well-established that parents take turns on this.


Exactly. Both parents should be in the child's life. A child tends to develop better that way.
 
5 days ago  
As a divorce attorney, i fully encourage all married couples to keep score.

/not really a divorce attorney
 
5 days ago  
If she's breastfeeding, husband should get up and change the kid's diaper and then hand it off to mom.  If they're using formula they should split it evenly-- and alternating nights works better than splitting it each night.

My first kid, we split each night, so I was on the 10 to 2 shift and she was on the 2-6 shift. We both ended up tired and cranky.  Getting a decent night's sleep makes it easier to get up with the kid the next night.
 
5 days ago  
You should make him a sammich while you're up.
 
5 days ago  

Fireproof: I thought it was well-established that parents take turns on this.


Depends on what you mean by taking turns - there are a lot of variables.
Breastfeeding? Sorry Mom, that's on you
Bottle feeding (including pumped breast milk)? Yep, Dad can do that just as well as Mom can
Random crying for no apparent reason? Diapers? Yeah, everyone can deal with that sh*t

You really need to factor in other responsibilities as well - if one parent has basically no time off work and the other either doesn't work or has decent parental leave, then yeah, the non-currently-working parent needs to take more of the nighttime duties.  Yeah, unfortunately that's almost universally means Mom is the one who's going to get crappy sleep, but she at least has the chance to sneak in a nap when the baby does. It sucks, but parenting infants is more taxing on women than men. Accept this, because you can't change it.
 
5 days ago  

BretMavrik: "Involving both parties" doesn't mean "every task or responsibility is split 50/50". Having both parents lose sleep on principle is ridiculous; you should be tag-teaming your schedules and tasks to help ensure that at least one of you is in good shape (mentally and physically) at all times to help cover for when the other isn't. I'm a light sleeper but my wife needs her full night in order to even consider being functional the next day, so I've usually been the one to get up (and still am; our older son has a lot of fitful sleep).


Done and done, just from the headline this person sounds insufferable and I bet they line item when doing tips at restaurants with groups.

Disclosure: wife is an early riser, I'm a night owl, tag teaming worked on kiddo.
 
5 days ago  
Wow. Are all parents these days this ridiculous? Take turns and don't keep score. He's probably pretty exhausted as well.

Think of others, lady.
 
5 days ago  

phenn: Wow. Are all parents these days this ridiculous? Take turns and don't keep score. He's probably pretty exhausted as well.

Think of others, lady.


They're not that ridiculous. Keep in mind that you're on a site that emphasizes odd news.
 
5 days ago  
Work this shiat out before you get knocked up.
 
5 days ago  
what a dum dum

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
When our little one was still a baby I'd keep watch till around 2am (since I'm a night owl), and it was on her from that point onward.

Luckily the little one started sleeping through the night at 6 weeks so we were able to get more sleep.
 
5 days ago  
You have to play it out, your plans don't mean shiat to the baby. There is a mother bond that a dad cannot replicate easily.
Example - my first son would NOT take a bottle until 6 months out. Nope. Doesn't matter if it was breast milk or formula or a 20 year old scotch. One time, we went to a wedding, and I took him to the hotel early cause he had 2 blow outs, and was a mess, but my wife wanted to stay.

He got hungry, and ended up crying for 3 hours. I did everything I could to settle him, and nothing worked. My wife came back, and within minutes, he was down. I bet it didn't hurt that her milk was probably 20 proof at that point, but I couldn't even get him to try a bottle.
 
5 days ago  

hobnail: If she's breastfeeding, husband should get up and change the kid's diaper and then hand it off to mom.  If they're using formula they should split it evenly-- and alternating nights works better than splitting it each night.

My first kid, we split each night, so I was on the 10 to 2 shift and she was on the 2-6 shift. We both ended up tired and cranky.  Getting a decent night's sleep makes it easier to get up with the kid the next night.


This is pretty much what my wife and I did.  He was always on formula, simply because the kid just wouldn't breast feed.  I say we lucked out.  In fact, if we have another kid, we might not even try breast feeding*.  Anyways, I slept from 9pm to 3am, and she slept from 3am to 9am.  It worked out well for us. However you do it, you need to split the work of course, but not keep score. 

*As an aside, my wife and I absolutely were sucked into the 'the baby needs to breastfeed' craze.  We tried everything in the hospital.  Finally it was almost 24 hours after being born where our son hadn't had a real meal.  We borderline had to scream at the nurses to get formula for the kid.  They were such dicks about it.  We were treated like we were already the worst parents in the history of parenting.

After leaving the hospital, a day later our son was back in for jaundice, and it was absolutely because he didn't get food for so long.  I wanted to burn that god dam hospital down after seeing my newborn in that sun tube thing.  fark those stupid breast feeding nazi sons of biatches.  Kid was on formula for a yearish, and we had no problems at all.  He's now five and we couldn't be prouder.
 
5 days ago  
He did most of the work to get you pregnant so you should do most of the work with the child. It's only fair.
 
5 days ago  

eKonk: Fireproof: I thought it was well-established that parents take turns on this.

Depends on what you mean by taking turns - there are a lot of variables.
Breastfeeding? Sorry Mom, that's on you
Bottle feeding (including pumped breast milk)? Yep, Dad can do that just as well as Mom can
Random crying for no apparent reason? Diapers? Yeah, everyone can deal with that sh*t

You really need to factor in other responsibilities as well - if one parent has basically no time off work and the other either doesn't work or has decent parental leave, then yeah, the non-currently-working parent needs to take more of the nighttime duties.  Yeah, unfortunately that's almost universally means Mom is the one who's going to get crappy sleep, but she at least has the chance to sneak in a nap when the baby does. It sucks, but parenting infants is more taxing on women than men. Accept this, because you can't change it.


As someone who's going through this right now (my son turns one month old tomorrow), this is exactly right.

I'll change his diaper and help her get set up for the breastfeed and pumping, but then I go back to bed right after because it makes no damn sense for us both to lose out on sleep. If he's STILL hungry afterwards (which happens fairly often) she'll wake me up and I'll bottle feed him.

The letter writer also needs to know that breastfeeding is no joke - it's hard work for both mom and baby, it can take a long time per session, and it's unfortunately not as instinctive as you'd hope.
 
5 days ago  

BretMavrik: "Involving both parties" doesn't mean "every task or responsibility is split 50/50". Having both parents lose sleep on principle is ridiculous; you should be tag-teaming your schedules and tasks to help ensure that at least one of you is in good shape (mentally and physically) at all times to help cover for when the other isn't. I'm a light sleeper but my wife needs her full night in order to even consider being functional the next day, so I've usually been the one to get up (and still am; our older son has a lot of fitful sleep).


Dear BM:

My wife and I have always appreciated your advice so we were eager to implement your tag-teaming parenting idea.

However, I am saddened to report, that after a week of tag-teaming, we have still been unable to pin the baby.  She always somehow manages to kick out after a two-count.  Please advise.
 
5 days ago  
jfivealive:
*As an aside, my wife and I absolutely were sucked into the 'the baby needs to breastfeed' craze.  We tried everything in the hospital.  Finally it was almost 24 hours after being born where our son hadn't had a real meal.  We borderline had to scream at the nurses to get formula for the kid.  They were such dicks about it.  We were treated like we were already the worst parents in the history of parenting.

After leaving the hospital, a day later our son was back in for jaundice, and it was absolutely because he didn't get food for so long.  I wanted to burn that god dam hospital down after seeing my newborn in that sun tube thing.  fark those stupid breast feeding nazi sons of biatches.  Kid was on formula for a yearish, and we had no problems at all.  He's now five and we couldn't be prouder.


Holy crap, we had the same experience with our daughter - it was one nurse in particular that must have been Hitler's wet nurse or something who kept insisting that we should avoid formula at all costs. In fact, even after our insistence she still never got us formula - another nurse had to do it (the second nurse was quite professional).  The focus needs to be on the kid's health, not some idiot's breast milk politics.
 
5 days ago  

jfivealive: *As an aside, my wife and I absolutely were sucked into the 'the baby needs to breastfeed' craze.  We tried everything in the hospital.  Finally it was almost 24 hours after being born where our son hadn't had a real meal.  We borderline had to scream at the nurses to get formula for the kid.  They were such dicks about it.  We were treated like we were already the worst parents in the history of parenting.


We went through some pretty awful nurses. We asked for help from one; she glanced at him and said, "Oh he's tongue and lip tied, I'll give you a referral to a surgeon who will snip him".

YOU ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO DIAGNOSE ANYTHING, YOU B*TCH.

Fortunately we found a competent lactation consultant and she's been awesome. She also fully supports formula feeding  - "I believe breast is best but it doesn't outweigh the dangers of malnutrition!". Our pediatrician did the same - loaded us up on Enfamil samples, heh.

(He's most certainly not tongue or lip tied. Aarrrgh, she makes me furious)
 
5 days ago  
Who Gets Up?: Having both of you wake up for every feeding is a terrible idea. Pump into bottles so that he can feed the baby too, and then take turns waking up.

All Kids Are Challenging, but ... : Drop the Karl/Marx friendship now, and be blunt about why. This kid is more than rambunctious; he needs some serious help.

Pacifier Blues: Anti-nailbiting nail polish for all three of you, stat. Ordinarily I'd say you could use regular nail polish, but the anti-nailbiting stuff is safer if some of it gets ingested, and since a toddler is involved, some of it will get ingested.
 
5 days ago  
That first lady needs an abortion pronto then wait a few years to mature the fark up before having a child.
Or
RUN DUDE RUN
 
5 days ago  
Waking up at the same time to hold your partner's hand, as a new parent, is flat out stupid.  Sleep time is precious and rare.  As a dad, my role was to wake up in the middle of the night, retrieve the hungry infant, hand said infant to the breastfeeding mom, sleep for a few minutes, wake back up, burp infant, change diaper and return content baby to the crib.  Then I'd wake at 4:30 am and head off to work.  I'd usually get to sleep an hour earlier.  She'd sleep later in the morning.  It was very much a tag team effort.
 
TWX
5 days ago  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: eKonk: Fireproof: I thought it was well-established that parents take turns on this.

Depends on what you mean by taking turns - there are a lot of variables.
Breastfeeding? Sorry Mom, that's on you
Bottle feeding (including pumped breast milk)? Yep, Dad can do that just as well as Mom can
Random crying for no apparent reason? Diapers? Yeah, everyone can deal with that sh*t

You really need to factor in other responsibilities as well - if one parent has basically no time off work and the other either doesn't work or has decent parental leave, then yeah, the non-currently-working parent needs to take more of the nighttime duties.  Yeah, unfortunately that's almost universally means Mom is the one who's going to get crappy sleep, but she at least has the chance to sneak in a nap when the baby does. It sucks, but parenting infants is more taxing on women than men. Accept this, because you can't change it.

As someone who's going through this right now (my son turns one month old tomorrow), this is exactly right.

I'll change his diaper and help her get set up for the breastfeed and pumping, but then I go back to bed right after because it makes no damn sense for us both to lose out on sleep. If he's STILL hungry afterwards (which happens fairly often) she'll wake me up and I'll bottle feed him.

The letter writer also needs to know that breastfeeding is no joke - it's hard work for both mom and baby, it can take a long time per session, and it's unfortunately not as instinctive as you'd hope.


Our daughter was born a little over a year and a half ago. I'd been a good boy at work the past several years and had a boatload of sick leave saved up, I took six weeks to stay home and help our household adjust to the new little one, and frankly, to try to bond with her a little bit better than many fathers can.

Our little girl still calls out for Mom if she wakes up at night though. She's getting better about calming down if I pick her up but she definitely prefers Mom at that time of night. Doesn't matter which of us puts her to bed either.

It's slowly getting easier; she passed her egg-allergy "challenge" test yesterday so no more food allergies to contend with, and she's smart as a whip and is already demonstrating some understanding of ordinal numbers, so we're hopeful for the future.

Back to TFA, the woman doesn't seem to understand that all the planning and decision-making now doesn't really amount to very much once the baby is here. They can decide and even agree as to who does what, but that could all be out the window depending on what the baby needs and wants, and doubly-so if there are any outstanding circumstances that change the equation.
 
5 days ago  
2nd letter:My husband and I have been struggling with how to maintain safe and appropriate get-togethers between our 11-year-old son, Karl, and one of his school friends, Marx. They have been in school together for many years and were both high-energy kids who needed classroom support when they were younger, so we have been familiar with Marx since early elementary.

That's too bad about Marx, but high energy kids have trouble keeping friends and..

Karl and other friends have reported Marx leading behaviors such as porch theft, shooting Nerfs at cars, and unrestricted screens.

Never mind, invite Marx over, kill him with a shovel, then use the shovel to bury him.
 
5 days ago  
Its not efficient to have both parents handling it at the same time.
 
5 days ago  
Which of you makes less money?

That parent gets up with the child.
 
5 days ago  

brap: BretMavrik: "Involving both parties" doesn't mean "every task or responsibility is split 50/50". Having both parents lose sleep on principle is ridiculous; you should be tag-teaming your schedules and tasks to help ensure that at least one of you is in good shape (mentally and physically) at all times to help cover for when the other isn't. I'm a light sleeper but my wife needs her full night in order to even consider being functional the next day, so I've usually been the one to get up (and still am; our older son has a lot of fitful sleep).

Dear BM:

My wife and I have always appreciated your advice so we were eager to implement your tag-teaming parenting idea.

However, I am saddened to report, that after a week of tag-teaming, we have still been unable to pin the baby.  She always somehow manages to kick out after a two-count.  Please advise.


You have to remember how flexible babies are, and that their necks and skulls aren't fully formed. So they're pretty much like a mouse that can contort its body to fit through a hole the size of a dime. The trick is to move their right leg forward under their opposite elbow so that their lower body strength is spread across both their sagittal and transverse planes. If you also turn their head in the same direction, it reduces the likelihood of them using their back strength as correction leverage.

Of course, there is always the chance of the nuclear diaper blowout option, but you didn't get into this line of work for the glamour or the unstained clothing. Stay strong and never show mercy.

/Also, this is why parenting classes should really be mandatory.
 
5 days ago  
This couple should have a daily online vote among friends and family about who will have to get up that night.

All votes should be publicly declared so that everyone knows well in advance which side each person will be on during the divorce.
 
5 days ago  
Mrs. Fan was a stay at home mom so no sharing of night crying/feeding.  She could get up, feed the baby and go back to bed and also catch naps during the middle of the day while I got up to head off to work.  I was making some good coin at the time and I realize that not all are in the same situation.  Having both parents up every night seems stupid.
 
5 days ago  
Yeah, yikes.

I was half expecting this to be a "we didn't bother talking and level setting ahead of the kiddo being born and now it's a crisis".  I'm glad it wasn't that.

Dad is right, designing it so that both of you get up for the entirety of every wakeup is a recipe for disaster and a nasty fight in the middle of the night at about six weeks in.

Both of you will be getting up in one way or another for most of them for the first few weeks as a consequence of learning the rhythm of how to share the load.  That is very different than saying that is the intended behavior.  You need to figure out how to make sure everyone is getting enough rest to be able to be members of the family (kiddo too) and not resentful of each other.

<csd[ad]>

When both of our kids were infants we traded off.  She'd have to wake up for most of them to feed the kid, and I'd take most of the harder "get them back to sleep" adventures, we'd trade off diaper changes.  But both of us in the end felt like the other was doing the harder work.  Which is a pretty good clue you've found a good balance.  We had an exception for days that I had to drive to customer sites (an hour or more of driving) that the last two hours were hers to cover, just so that I'd have a chance to be safe to drive.

From like a year one though with both of them (4 and 2 now) I've been the primary night parent (handling most of the wakeups, bathroom and water requests, or bring the kid to our bed requests).  Just because I wake up easier, get back to sleep easier, and most critically... if it had been her, they'd've just fought to nurse all night all the time.  It's a balance that works for our family, and that's what's important.

</csd>
 
5 days ago  

eKonk: You really need to factor in other responsibilities as well - if one parent has basically no time off work and the other either doesn't work or has decent parental leave, then yeah, the non-currently-working parent needs to take more of the nighttime duties.  Yeah, unfortunately that's almost universally means Mom is the one who's going to get crappy sleep, but she at least has the chance to sneak in a nap when the baby does. It sucks, but parenting infants is more taxing on women than men. Accept this, because you can't change it.


We did the opposite. My wife stayed at home for six months when our oldest was born. Her days consisted of feeding and changing the baby. I went to work and had conversations with grownups. So I took all the night shifts and ensured she had at least a decent night's sleep before going full groundhog day the next morning. Same thing with the second baby. To this day (they're 8 and 5 now) they're calling for dad whenever something happens at night. I sleep doorside in our room and I need less sleep than she does. And I love her, too.
 
5 days ago  

eKonk: You really need to factor in other responsibilities as well - if one parent has basically no time off work and the other either doesn't work or has decent parental leave, then yeah, the non-currently-working parent needs to take more of the nighttime duties.  Yeah, unfortunately that's almost universally means Mom is the one who's going to get crappy sleep, but she at least has the chance to sneak in a nap when the baby does. It sucks, but parenting infants is more taxing on women than men. Accept this, because you can't change it.


You know, except for all the cases where people have changed it.
 
5 days ago  
Our daughter started sleeping through the night at 9 weeks.

Momma is a night owl so she did the late shift until 1 or 2 am and I got her around 6 am.  Everyone was happy and got sleep.

Parents need some non-baby sanity and adult interaction time.
 
5 days ago  

TheGreatGazoo: Our daughter started sleeping through the night at 9 weeks.

Momma is a night owl so she did the late shift until 1 or 2 am and I got her around 6 am.  Everyone was happy and got sleep.

Parents need some non-baby sanity and adult interaction time.


When my son was born, he was a preemie. Once he finally got home, we had to wake him every three hours to eat. Wife pumped so we had the bottle option. I would do the 9pm and midnight feeding then go to sleep (probably about 1am once all was done)

My wife took the 3am and went back to sleep while I took the 6am and went to work (after paternity leave was over)


It was rough on both of us, but we each got at least 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night plus naps when we could.

Of course, this was in Canada where I was off for 12 weeks (added vacation to paternity leave) and my wife was off for a year.
 
5 days ago  
The wife breastfed our son.  At nights most of the time she heard him and got up before I even woke up.  On the nights she didn't want to get up she normally would nudge me and tell me to go get him.  If he was wet I would change him then drop him off for her to feed.  Once we switched to mostly formula we split it, but I would be lying if I said it was 50/50.  She probably got up more often then I did.  Luckily he started sleeping through the night at a pretty early age.

This lady dumb.  I bet she even voted for Trump.

/Trumped it up!
//You're welcome!
 
5 days ago  
Run, dude. Run.
 
5 days ago  

Mugato: Run, dude. Run.


.... that's not true, you have to do right by your kid. But if you ever get hold of a time machine, go back to when you first met her and run.

.....but then you wouldn't have the kid, who you're probably attached to. Well, you're farked.
 
5 days ago  
The first month is always rough, no matter how well you plan it in advance. Go with what works.

HOWEVER, get the kid on a schedule ASAP. Seriously, this is literally the most important thing to do when having a newborn. Both of my kids were scheduled within a month. Put down at 8pm after feeding / diaper, around midnight woke baby up for feeding / diaper and then back to sleep. Kid usually woke up hungry around 7am.
Poof, we got our lives back. I normally go to sleep after midnight and my wife normally gets up after 6am. So we still had couple-time at night and plenty of sleep. Seriously, schedule.
 
5 days ago  
You're not ready to raise  a human being. Give the baby up for adoption, problem solved. You're welcome.

If you insist on keeping the baby, follow that bible story about offering to cut the baby in two. The bible is never wrong. Each of you can take care of half the baby. Problem solved. You're welcome.
 
5 days ago  

brap: BretMavrik: "Involving both parties" doesn't mean "every task or responsibility is split 50/50". Having both parents lose sleep on principle is ridiculous; you should be tag-teaming your schedules and tasks to help ensure that at least one of you is in good shape (mentally and physically) at all times to help cover for when the other isn't. I'm a light sleeper but my wife needs her full night in order to even consider being functional the next day, so I've usually been the one to get up (and still am; our older son has a lot of fitful sleep).

Dear BM:

My wife and I have always appreciated your advice so we were eager to implement your tag-teaming parenting idea.

However, I am saddened to report, that after a week of tag-teaming, we have still been unable to pin the baby.  She always somehow manages to kick out after a two-count.  Please advise.


What's that music? Bah Gawd, King! It's Fano with the Stone Cold Stunner! The baby is out!
 
5 days ago  
Yeah, she's being unreasonable. Husband is right; they'll both end up being sleep deprived. Since he'll be working through most of it, it seems reasonable that she carry the lion's share, but he covers on the weekends/whenever he won't be working, so she can catch up on sleep as much as possible.

That's what my wife and I did, and it worked great. Just my two cents.
 
5 days ago  
Take turns because it also gets both parents totally familiar with all needed items.   Then in an emergency both know what goes where, and the baby is relaxed with either parent, etc.

/ having other family/friends help too - its lovely when the baby is at ease with a several different people
 
5 days ago  
As someone who has triplets, the problems of parents with one baby are hilarious.  Waking up every 3-4 hours? Oh no!!!

You have no idea.
 
5 days ago  

zeroman987: As someone who has triplets, the problems of parents with one baby are hilarious.  Waking up every 3-4 hours? Oh no!!!

You have no idea.


One baby?  Pffft.  That's for Quakers.
 
5 days ago  

zeroman987: As someone who has triplets, the problems of parents with one baby are hilarious.  Waking up every 3-4 hours? Oh no!!!

You have no idea.


*shutters*

Just keeping up with that is enough! I am exhausted just thinking about it!

Adding in the epic laundry, grocery, pack em up and head out to yet another Dr appointment, Clean the house, omg the lawn needs cutting - no time for any slackers at your house.
/just getting a shower is tough.
Somehow families get thru this.
 
5 days ago  
I Think Both of Us Should Get Up With the Baby. My Husband Thinks I'm Crazy.

You are either crazy or selfish, I'll leave it up to you to decide. Splitting it up as close to 50/50 is completely fair.

But making your husband wake up just because it's your turn makes you a farking biatch. He's pbviously not planning the same for you, which makes this an entirely selfish idea on your part.

Fark you lady, you aren't ready to be married, let alone a parent.
 
5 days ago  
 Hopefully this baby will grow up to Not be as dumb and unreasonable as her mother.

/Millennial's are starting to breed.  Lord help us
 
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