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(The New York Times)   Hardcore Libertarian proves that it IS possible to "vanish" completely from all the databases collecting and selling your personal information while still staying "on the grid" and hooked up to the internet. It's just insanely hard   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, IP address, Mr. Lopp, Jameson Lopp's house, Mr. Lopp's vision, new location, private investigators, much information, wealthy people  
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5702 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2019 at 8:20 AM (7 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



131 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2019-03-15 08:22:20 AM  
Does it involve a utilizing a large collection of AOL cds?
 
2019-03-15 08:22:38 AM  
Mr. Lopp, a self-described libertarian who works for a Bitcoin security company

Hehehehahahaho
 
2019-03-15 08:24:04 AM  
It's just insanely hard

res.cloudinary.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 08:26:56 AM  
Wouldn't it be easier to just constantly lie? That way sure you're on the databases, but it's utterly meaningless.
 
2019-03-15 08:28:00 AM  
There aren't enough psychologists in the world to figure out what the hell is wrong with this guy.....
 
2019-03-15 08:30:03 AM  
So, create an LLC or two, get corporate credit cards and buy a new house in cash. Okay. Shouldn't step one be, 'have a ton of money'?
 
2019-03-15 08:31:36 AM  

Smashed Hat: So, create an LLC or two, get corporate credit cards and buy a new house in cash. Okay. Shouldn't step one be, 'have a ton of money'?


Should also be step one in "Becoming a libertarian"
 
2019-03-15 08:31:45 AM  

ModernLuddite: There aren't enough psychologists in the world to figure out what the hell is wrong with this guy.....


Not really.  Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.

One other thing he can't do is get married.  We were able to find my wife's birth mother who was an absolute off the grid ghost (not on purpose, she just lived offline and out in the sticks) and the marriage certificate application was like a giant beacon to the PI we had hired.
 
2019-03-15 08:32:46 AM  
i.telegraph.co.ukView Full Size


Can't get any more off the grid, then this...
 
2019-03-15 08:34:04 AM  
Shocking

Neckbeard, beer snob

Hey Ladies!

3mgj4y44nc15fnv8d303d8zb-wpengine.netdna-ssl.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 08:35:28 AM  
He's definitely still being tracked, it's just in multiple, different threads, and given time, connections will be made between them.
 
2019-03-15 08:35:57 AM  
Probably still gets a dozen robocalls a day
 
2019-03-15 08:37:23 AM  
I'm sure it helped that he changed his legal name to Robert'); DROP TABLE.
 
2019-03-15 08:38:00 AM  

AdamK: Wouldn't it be easier to just constantly lie? That way sure you're on the databases, but it's utterly meaningless.


Exactly. You should read my reviews I post on Google (which they constantly nag me for). It's insane! No telling what the marketing databases think I prefer besides blondes.
 
2019-03-15 08:38:43 AM  
 
Xai [TotalFark] [BareFark]
2019-03-15 08:38:59 AM  
I searched for 'Hardcore Libertarian' and didn't find this guy... I need bleach for my eyes...
 
2019-03-15 08:39:20 AM  
So we should all register ourselves as LLCs? In other words, the SovCits were kind of right about something?
 
2019-03-15 08:39:52 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 08:40:03 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.


Like the case of the guy who freaked out at Target when they started mailing his teenage daughter maternity/newborn offers, because they knew before he did?
 
2019-03-15 08:42:15 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: ModernLuddite: There aren't enough psychologists in the world to figure out what the hell is wrong with this guy.....

Not really.  Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.

One other thing he can't do is get married.  We were able to find my wife's birth mother who was an absolute off the grid ghost (not on purpose, she just lived offline and out in the sticks) and the marriage certificate application was like a giant beacon to the PI we had hired.


There a lots of things you can't do if you want to remain 'anonymous'.   Never have a job that pays taxes.  Never have health insurance.  Never have a driver license.  Never attend school.  Never have a utility bill.  etc. etc.
 
2019-03-15 08:42:17 AM  

UNC_Samurai: I'm sure it helped that he changed his legal name to Robert'); DROP TABLE.


I gave you a funny, but the joke is incomplete because it would just return an error.  You're not telling it *WHICH* table to drop.  In the XKCD cartoon, it's Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;--

You would have failed at hot beef SQL injection.
 
2019-03-15 08:46:54 AM  
Step 1: 
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 08:47:30 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 08:48:13 AM  

kittyhas1000legs: TheGreatGazoo: Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.

Like the case of the guy who freaked out at Target when they started mailing his teenage daughter maternity/newborn offers, because they knew before he did?


Well, that would be pretty easy to spoof too.  Target has computers for bridal and maternity gift registries right by the customer service desk.  Pretty easy to get someone on a mailing list as a prank.
 
2019-03-15 08:49:19 AM  
Don't forget to sand off your fingerprints daily and only handle pennies with red latex gloves. Otherwise, your dna is immediately transmitted to the IBM beast mainframe in Provo Utah and your life is reduced to a single 80 column punch card. I admit. It's not as scary as it was in the 1970s.
 
2019-03-15 08:50:00 AM  

Smashed Hat: So, create an LLC or two, get corporate credit cards and buy a new house in cash. Okay. Shouldn't step one be, 'have a ton of money'?


Not necessarily, but it would be complicated.

Assuming you incorporated in a state like Maryland where the names on the company need not be disclosed, you have an LLC without a name backstopping it that's a legal entity.

You couldn't necessarily do a corporate credit card as those still require your personal information to go with it in my experience, though maybe there's a way around it to where the card is only tied ot the business, and not to the employee to whom the card is issued.

As far as buying a house in cash, that'd actually be simpler, though your footprint would be more of an obfuscated one than non-existent.  To do it, and supposing you needed a loan to do it, you start by getting a business loan for your LLC/company. Your name would still be on the loan, in theory, as the officer representing the company doing the signing (though arguably you could enlist an attorney or an accountant to handle it as a responsible party/representative of the business, keeping your name out of it).

The money gets deposited into the corporate bank account (again, your name would be somewhere as at least a person with access to make withdrawls from the account, but not necessarily.) You then make regular withdrawals from the corporate account through some means or other, so you have the cash on hand. Only record at that point is that you, as a representative of your company, have made withdrawals for cash on a fairly regular basis.  Voila, you have the cash for your house in hand with no record tying the house buy with the corporate accounts.

Alternatively, although this would be harder to explain, depending, you could use your corporate credit cards to make purchases of things like bearer bonds or gold, which you could then in turn sell for cash without a record of the transaction. Again, voila, you have cash in hand to pay for the house, and the house's purchase has no direct ties to your business or any loans or whatever your business has.

The price wouldn't even necessarily have to be a big one, so long as you shop the foreclosure market. A friend of mine buys rental properties that way and just recently got a good, recently-renovated house for $25k, which includes appliances.

As long as you run all your income through the business, your business taxes are all legit and up to date, and you have an established flow of cash in and out, it'd be hard to link expenditures with private assets like a house.

A good forensic accountant could probably follow the trail and figure it out, but it would take significant backtracking, and would also assume that you didn't set things up to where your name was on as few of the corporate documents and business paperwork as possible, such as any loan paperwork, etc.
 
2019-03-15 08:51:48 AM  

Driedsponge: He's definitely still being tracked, it's just in multiple, different threads, and given time, connections will be made between them.


Do you use the internet? Congratulations, you have an electronic signature that's unique to you which can be identified and tracked through publicly available/non confidential information sources. Once they have that, it's just a matter of time before they can glean your identity by watching what you access.
 
2019-03-15 08:56:31 AM  
If you think you've managed to scrub yourself from databases, you're deluding yourself.  But, then again, this guy is a libertarian.  Deluding yourself is #1 in the job description.
 
2019-03-15 08:56:39 AM  

Travis_Bickle: Shocking

Neckbeard, beer snob

Hey Ladies!

[3mgj4y44nc15fnv8d303d8zb-wpengine.net​dna-ssl.com image 696x449]


Sour.  Gose.  Belgian with ginger.

fun fact: nobody actually likes those beers.  Sour beer is particularly objectionable.  Sour is right there in the name for god's sake.
 
2019-03-15 08:57:24 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: One other thing he can't do is get married.

I'm thinking marriage is not on his to-do list.
 
2019-03-15 08:59:38 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: kittyhas1000legs: TheGreatGazoo: Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.

Like the case of the guy who freaked out at Target when they started mailing his teenage daughter maternity/newborn offers, because they knew before he did?

Well, that would be pretty easy to spoof too.  Target has computers for bridal and maternity gift registries right by the customer service desk.  Pretty easy to get someone on a mailing list as a prank.


But in this case that's not how itr happened.  instead it had to do with them tracking purchases and noticing she was suddenly buying things like  vitamins, and clothes in a larger size
 
2019-03-15 08:59:48 AM  

Fissile: TheGreatGazoo: ModernLuddite: There aren't enough psychologists in the world to figure out what the hell is wrong with this guy.....

Not really.  Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.

One other thing he can't do is get married.  We were able to find my wife's birth mother who was an absolute off the grid ghost (not on purpose, she just lived offline and out in the sticks) and the marriage certificate application was like a giant beacon to the PI we had hired.

There a lots of things you can't do if you want to remain 'anonymous'.   Never have a job that pays taxes.  Never have health insurance.  Never have a driver license.  Never attend school.  Never have a utility bill.  etc. etc.


That's not strictly true.  It all depends on what you mean by "anonymous".

If you're trying to avoid showing up in commercial databases to the extent possible, you can still have a job that pays taxes, have health insurance, and a drivers license, etc.   You just have to eschew modern communications like cell phones, the Internet, etc.  That's where the vast majority of information on you comes from.

My father has a very small footprint.  He doesn't have Internet or a smart phone or e-mail or any of the modern conveniences, except for a "dumb" flip phone, which we kind of insist he have because he's in his 80's now.  For all intents and purposes, he's "anonymous" on the Internet.  Not completely and totally anonymous:  You can go to the County GIS website and look up his parcel of land, for example.  But there is nothing connecting him to any online presence because he in effect doesn't have one.  So while his existence might be known, there is almost no commercial information about him out there, aside from his location (from cell phone tower pings).  And he could, if he wished, mitigate that by simply leaving his phone at home.

If you're talking anonymous to both commercial and government databases, that's a whole other kettle of whores of a different color.  To completely disappear you've got to do as you point out.
 
2019-03-15 09:02:05 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: Don't forget to sand off your fingerprints daily and only handle pennies with red latex gloves. Otherwise, your dna is immediately transmitted to the IBM beast mainframe in Provo Utah and your life is reduced to a single 80 column punch card. I admit. It's not as scary as it was in the 1970s.


Each punch card contains only 72 characters worth of data.   You have succeeded in going off the grid if all the info the Feddle Gummint has on you fits on one card.

Also, mainframes run on SSD storage, nowadays, not punched cards.
 
2019-03-15 09:04:56 AM  
It's funny that he thinks it's possible to "turn off all geolocation services" on a cell phone.
 
2019-03-15 09:05:11 AM  
previews.123rf.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 09:07:39 AM  

Thank You Black Jesus!: Travis_Bickle: Shocking

Neckbeard, beer snob

Hey Ladies!

[3mgj4y44nc15fnv8d303d8zb-wpengine.net​dna-ssl.com image 696x449]

Sour.  Gose.  Belgian with ginger.

fun fact: nobody actually likes those beers.  Sour beer is particularly objectionable.  Sour is right there in the name for god's sake.


img.fark.netView Full Size


I like sours. I will pass on the ginger though...
 
2019-03-15 09:12:38 AM  
I have an ex girlfriend who has been off the web her entire life. She's almost invisible.  She's also been completely paranoid about secrecy. She's never had a phone or car in her name, never carried a credit card in her name, and uses cash for everything. To reach her on the home phone registered to her father I had to call, let it ring once, hang up, wait ten seconds and call again.  She's also extremely intelligent and has three degrees, including an M.D., but doesn't practice medicine.

Fortunately she is married to someone else.
 
2019-03-15 09:14:01 AM  
I missed where in TFA he identified himself as a Libertarian, or the "hardcore" (and nuts) version of that, the "Sovereign Citizen".  Perhaps I lack reading comprehension skills.  Or perhaps I don't draw conclusions and state them as fact.
 
2019-03-15 09:15:18 AM  
What I learned from this article is that any random person can call the FBI and have them storm your house by claiming kidnapping.


Now this being the NYT, a fine example of infallible journalism, I'm not going to call BS.  But I would've thought the FBI would maybe send a local officer first, do some verification, etc.

But nope.  Straight to storming the house full SWAT.
 
2019-03-15 09:15:51 AM  

Kit Fister: Driedsponge: He's definitely still being tracked, it's just in multiple, different threads, and given time, connections will be made between them.

Do you use the internet? Congratulations, you have an electronic signature that's unique to you which can be identified and tracked through publicly available/non confidential information sources. Once they have that, it's just a matter of time before they can glean your identity by watching what you access.


Well, I'm safe then. I've never used the internet in my life.

/this message was dictated but not read
 
2019-03-15 09:16:36 AM  
Conversely a good disguise is all you need to be out there, but not be seen.

/  I'm really a 18 year old girl.
// In a wheelchair.
/// Morgan Fairchild is my grandmother.
 
2019-03-15 09:18:07 AM  

jjorsett: It's funny that he thinks it's possible to "turn off all geolocation services" on a cell phone.


At the very least, the carrier knows which tower you are connected to, and can pinpoint you to a mile or so.
 
2019-03-15 09:19:19 AM  

TheGreatGazoo: ModernLuddite: There aren't enough psychologists in the world to figure out what the hell is wrong with this guy.....

Not really.  Marketing and similar databases know more about you than you know about you, and it's rather annoying.

One other thing he can't do is get married.  We were able to find my wife's birth mother who was an absolute off the grid ghost (not on purpose, she just lived offline and out in the sticks) and the marriage certificate application was like a giant beacon to the PI we had hired.


What Is a Confidential Marriage License and Why Does California Offer Them?
 
2019-03-15 09:19:56 AM  
Everybody crapping on this guy for being a tin foil hat weirdo.  Sure its a bit over the top but it is pretty enlightening the lengths you have to go to have complete privacy.   For the most part I accept that my information is out there.  I use my real name, pseudo-anonymous and completely anonymous personas depending on the situation.

When using my real name, and I do a lot, I take the approach of what kind of person I want to present to my family and friends who google my name after I am gone.  I would never say something there that I wouldn't shout out on a street corner.  What digital legacy do you want to leave.

Pseudo anonymous is for fun stuff like Fark.  I want to joke around and say things with like minded people without watching every word for fear of misinterpretation.  I still keep it clean with all you assholes (heh).  I am under no illusion that my pseudo-anonymous accounts can't be linked to me.

Completely anonymous accounts are what I use for financial discussions and the like. I don't want people knowing my personal affairs.  Good luck linking me.  But it is helpful to discuss specific topics with people I don't know who have more expertise than I have without blasting out my personal info.
 
2019-03-15 09:21:50 AM  

jjorsett: It's funny that he thinks it's possible to "turn off all geolocation services" on a cell phone.


Well, it is possible....

20mm vs Nokia 3310 - Slow Motion
Youtube m5seBNQb0M4
 
2019-03-15 09:22:56 AM  

GDubDub: I missed where in TFA he identified himself as a Libertarian, or the "hardcore" (and nuts) version of that, the "Sovereign Citizen".  Perhaps I lack reading comprehension skills.  Or perhaps I don't draw conclusions and state them as fact.


About three paragraphs in.
 
2019-03-15 09:25:40 AM  

Hack Patooey: If you think you've managed to scrub yourself from databases, you're deluding yourself.  But, then again, this guy is a libertarian.  Deluding yourself is #1 in the job description.


The gist I'm getting is that basically everything in this story is bogus.

So congrats NYT, you're newspaper is practically fiction.
 
2019-03-15 09:33:24 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: What I learned from this article is that any random person can call the FBI and have them storm your house by claiming kidnapping.


Now this being the NYT, a fine example of infallible journalism, I'm not going to call BS.  But I would've thought the FBI would maybe send a local officer first, do some verification, etc.

But nope.  Straight to storming the house full SWAT.


Yes, you might think that sort of thing.  And the FBI might in fact tend to investigate a bit first.

But nobody ever SWATs with the FBI.  They use the local piggies, who are more than happy to oblige by quickly sending their 'roid-ragingest pigs out as quickly as possible to break down doors and shoot dogs.

Now that it's a known thing that happens, it's actually slightly (but only slightly) less likely to be done without investigating anything.  But a quick call from a local-appearing phone number with a report of a domestic violence/hostage situation, children kidnapped, that sort of thing will quickly get the jackboots dispatched to the target location, while the caller remains safely anonymous in another state or country, and if they've set the call up correctly, utterly untraceable.

People have died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swattin​g
 
2019-03-15 09:34:15 AM  
The best way to stop being tracked by most bullshiat is to stop using personal data data mining operations fronting as social media platforms. The social science advancement potential is huge but it's all driven by owning and selling your data and then selling you potentially damaging bull shiat. Fight the urge to attention whore on the internet.
 
2019-03-15 09:35:47 AM  

cards fan by association: The best way to stop being tracked by most bullshiat is to stop using personal data data mining operations fronting as social media platforms. The social science advancement potential is huge but it's all driven by owning and selling your data and then selling you potentially damaging bull shiat. Fight the urge to attention whore on the internet.


But how else am I supposed to get validation from my peers than by posting pictures of my dinner plate from last night?
 
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