Skip to content
Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Vox)   The best $2,000 I ever spent: the defense attorney who got my band out of drug trafficking charges. I'm sure the outcome would have been exactly the same if they were poor, black, and had a public defender   (vox.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Salt Lake City, Prison, Utah, The Band, six-week tour, entire tour, day-old Arby's bags, list of the best criminal attorneys  
•       •       •

4685 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2019 at 6:29 AM (7 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



103 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2019-03-15 04:13:02 AM  
I don't think TFA says the band name, but the author was in The Lemons in 1995
 
2019-03-15 04:15:34 AM  
As much as everyone hates lawyers, when you need one you'll love the motherfarker if you win.
 
2019-03-15 04:40:46 AM  
Fundamentally very similar to the USC admission scandal. A situation where something is assumed to be fair, but isn't
 
2019-03-15 06:39:39 AM  

davidphogan: As much as everyone hates lawyers, when you need one you'll love the motherfarker if you win.


"Not hate him as much" =/= love.

It's like any other asshole in a position you find useful: "He's an asshole, but he's a wiz at..." etc.
 
2019-03-15 06:43:41 AM  
Last I checked it's not impossible for black people to go to college, take out student loans, get a good education, then a good paying job in their industry of choice.

In fact, it's been a while since I went to college but where I went they were actively recruiting "people of color" with outstanding incentives to attend their campus.  Not so much for whitey.
 
2019-03-15 06:48:38 AM  
Well, I'm sure if the lawyer was poor and black, they'd be more grateful in this case the migitating bastards.
 
2019-03-15 06:53:27 AM  

Krieghund: I don't think TFA says the band name, but the author was in The Lemons in 1995


I liked The Lemons back in the day.
 
2019-03-15 06:56:50 AM  

Mattbastard: Not so much for whitey.


Waah?
 
2019-03-15 06:57:24 AM  

Mattbastard: Last I checked it's not impossible for black people to go to college, take out student loans, get a good education, then a good paying job in their industry of choice.

In fact, it's been a while since I went to college but where I went they were actively recruiting "people of color" with outstanding incentives to attend their campus.  Not so much for whitey.


Shall we talk about the systemic racism that makes it so difficult for them to RECRUIT people of color?

I'll give you a hint: it starts waaaaaay before college.
 
2019-03-15 07:00:21 AM  
themoviescene.co.ukView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 07:04:57 AM  
I talked my way out of a search during a traffic stop in Texas when I was 19, mostly because I was a clean-cut white kid.
If the state trooper had searched my car and found the grass, I would have been eligible for 2-10 years in the state penitentiary.
 
2019-03-15 07:06:03 AM  
Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.
 
2019-03-15 07:08:04 AM  
It includes a letter ensuring me that if I'm ever asked if I've been arrested in connection with this incident, the answer is, truthfully, "No."

Assuring?
 
2019-03-15 07:10:38 AM  
I'm in general agreement with what this guy is saying, but this:

A short conversation ensued in which the driver - our singer - revealed to the officer (and his bandmates) that he'd been driving without a license.

What a farking idiot.  Even my young, dumb late-90s ass knew, the quickest way to get in trouble was to have ANY lapse in your license and registration.  And we were just carrying enough to get us through the weekend.
 
2019-03-15 07:12:59 AM  

IDisposable: It includes a letter ensuring me that if I'm ever asked if I've been arrested in connection with this incident, the answer is, truthfully, "No."

Assuring?


No, ensuring, he gets a free nutrition shake every time he's asked,
static.abbottnutrition.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 07:15:09 AM  

UNC_Samurai: I'm in general agreement with what this guy is saying, but this:

A short conversation ensued in which the driver - our singer - revealed to the officer (and his bandmates) that he'd been driving without a license.

What a farking idiot.  Even my young, dumb late-90s ass knew, the quickest way to get in trouble was to have ANY lapse in your license and registration.  And we were just carrying enough to get us through the weekend.


This. Who decided that guy could drive. A band van. With individually packaged baggies of weed (wtf on its own). In farking Utah.

This guy's label (4AD is solid and he's been associated with some great acts. Glad he didn't go to prison instead.
 
2019-03-15 07:20:58 AM  

wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.


Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...
 
2019-03-15 07:32:43 AM  

Dick Gozinya: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...


For some reason I translate that to "I sure miss when Fark wasn't so uptight and we could all laugh at a good racist joke."

Dunno why.
 
2019-03-15 07:32:58 AM  
Why is this so hard? You get the best stuff your money can buy. TVs. Shoes. Spinny rims. iPhones. Drugs. Why should justice be any different? You get Dollar General shoes, you get Dollar General quality. You cheap out and go with public defenders, you get public defender quality. Just buy less crack this month, and pay for a good lawyer.
 
2019-03-15 07:33:07 AM  

wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.


That's true, it's more class privilege than white privilege, but on average white people are less likely to be poor.  Even if they aren't well off they are far more likely to have a bank account, a credit card, or own a home, which are all ways to scrape together cash for a lawyer.
 
2019-03-15 07:36:21 AM  

MythDragon: Why is this so hard? You get the best stuff your money can buy. TVs. Shoes. Spinny rims. iPhones. Drugs. Why should justice be any different? You get Dollar General shoes, you get Dollar General quality. You cheap out and go with public defenders, you get public defender quality. Just buy less crack this month, and pay for a good lawyer.


Aaaah there's the good stuff.
 
2019-03-15 07:36:48 AM  

Mattbastard: Last I checked it's not impossible for black people to go to college, take out student loans, get a good education, then a good paying job in their industry of choice.

In fact, it's been a while since I went to college but where I went they were actively recruiting "people of color" with outstanding incentives to attend their campus.  Not so much for whitey.


The school I attended actively recruited whitey to attend giving a full, free ride to any white person with a pulse and a high school diploma while I was there.  I had to post a 4.0 plus GPA as well as high ACT score to get my scholarship.  I guess it's all about personal experiences.
 
2019-03-15 07:37:50 AM  

wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.


Ultimately it isn't so much about race, but class, poor people suffer way more than rich people (regardless of skin colour.)

Yes a high percent of darker skinned people are in jail, but it is because more of them are poor.  Poor white people get shot by cops too, not so much if they are rich.
 
2019-03-15 07:38:17 AM  
I don't know why we're shiatting on the public defender in the headline. 
The PD's I know work just as hard and are as much a pain in the ass as the paid attorneys. 
Hell, I do more trials with PD's than I do with paid attorneys and they beat me more often, too. In the past year I can't recall losing a trial to a paid attorney and I lost a trial to a PD last week. 
So much BS in the story, too. I've never flinched at the naming of a defense attorney. No prosecutor worth their salt would. It's the facts and the evidence that make a case easy or hard to prove. Not the name or the suit. Usually discussions of quality revolve around "Would I hire that guy to defend me." Never "Oh no! He's hired Dave Dingus! I'd better offer a plea. There's no way we can win." 
These results were clearly the result of a plea. One that was 100% worked out before this preliminary hearing. Getting a good plea has little to do with the "quality" of opposing counsel and everything to do with the quality of the evidence. I give the same plea deals to PD's that I give to pay lawyers. 
Picking on PD's is a pet peeve of mine.

/Wanted to be a PD, but was hired by the prosecutor's office instead.
 
2019-03-15 07:38:22 AM  

Krieghund: I don't think TFA says the band name, but the author was in The Lemons in 1995


Was he also in Lemon Party? Lemon Party was huge - look 'em up.
 
2019-03-15 07:39:32 AM  

Langdon_777: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Ultimately it isn't so much about race, but class, poor people suffer way more than rich people (regardless of skin colour.)

Yes a high percent of darker skinned people are in jail, but it is because more of them are poor.  Poor white people get shot by cops too, not so much if they are rich.


Of course it's not because black people have laws targeted directly against them, nope not at all, they just happen to be poor too.

Jesus Christ.
 
2019-03-15 07:39:51 AM  
Oh MLK didn't get assassinated when he was talking about black rights, he got killed when he started talking about class rights.
 
2019-03-15 07:40:03 AM  

Dick Gozinya: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...


*spins*

Thread mentioning boobies or giggity without pics.
 
2019-03-15 07:40:04 AM  

libranoelrose: Dick Gozinya: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...

For some reason I translate that to "I sure miss when Fark wasn't so uptight and we could all laugh at a good racist joke."

Dunno why.


Probably because you go around looking for things to misconstrue so you can get your daily dose of outrage?
 
2019-03-15 07:40:28 AM  

gar1013: Krieghund: I don't think TFA says the band name, but the author was in The Lemons in 1995

Was he also in Lemon Party? Lemon Party was huge - look 'em up.


That was his side project with Nick Cave.
 
2019-03-15 07:41:15 AM  

Dick Gozinya: libranoelrose: Dick Gozinya: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...

For some reason I translate that to "I sure miss when Fark wasn't so uptight and we could all laugh at a good racist joke."

Dunno why.

Probably because you go around looking for things to misconstrue so you can get your daily dose of outrage?


Naw, I don't do that. I'm pretty laid back.

Must be something else.
 
2019-03-15 07:42:11 AM  

MythDragon: Why is this so hard? You get the best stuff your money can buy. TVs. Shoes. Spinny rims. iPhones. Drugs. Why should justice be any different? You get Dollar General shoes, you get Dollar General quality. You cheap out and go with public defenders, you get public defender quality. Just buy less crack this month, and pay for a good lawyer.


How dare some lawyers be better than others!

It's an outrage that good lawyers command more money for their abilities!
 
2019-03-15 07:44:06 AM  

libranoelrose: Dick Gozinya: libranoelrose: Dick Gozinya: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...

For some reason I translate that to "I sure miss when Fark wasn't so uptight and we could all laugh at a good racist joke."

Dunno why.

Probably because you go around looking for things to misconstrue so you can get your daily dose of outrage?

Naw, I don't do that. I'm pretty laid back.

Must be something else.


libranoelrose: Of course it's not because black people have laws targeted directly against them, nope not at all, they just happen to be poor too.

Jesus Christ.


Yep....that's you laid back all right.
 
2019-03-15 07:44:15 AM  

libranoelrose: Langdon_777: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Ultimately it isn't so much about race, but class, poor people suffer way more than rich people (regardless of skin colour.)

Yes a high percent of darker skinned people are in jail, but it is because more of them are poor.  Poor white people get shot by cops too, not so much if they are rich.

Of course it's not because black people have laws targeted directly against them, nope not at all, they just happen to be poor too.

Jesus Christ.


Oh I will not discount racism in policing as a serious problem (I have watched 2nd Amendment open carry vids involving different people and the police response) - but ultimately it comes down to how much money you have.  This article exemplifies it.
 
2019-03-15 07:45:40 AM  

TheYeti: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

That's true, it's more class privilege than white privilege, but on average white people are less likely to be poor.  Even if they aren't well off they are far more likely to have a bank account, a credit card, or own a home, which are all ways to scrape together cash for a lawyer.


Isn't it time to have a conversation about Asian privilege then, if those are your barometers?  That could be problematic, as it might demonstrate that hard work and embracing education can make a significant difference over the span of a single generation.

Or are we just going to pretend that as a group, they don't score well in those measurements and continue quietly discriminating against them in the college application process under the guise of looking for "well rounded" students?
 
2019-03-15 07:48:20 AM  

wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.


Some 65% of prisoners in the US are white Christian males between the ages of 18 and 35 or so.  Most of them are there on at least part of a drug conviction.  Those numbers do change for border states like AZ where Mexican nationals make up a much higher % than the national average.
So yes, law enforcement and the DA offices target the poor and get easy convictions.  The cost to defend a mandatory minimum drug charge of the DA wants to put you away is around $500,000 in legal fees.  This is after they freeze your bank accounts and seize your property under civil asset forfeiture.
The war on drugs is a complete and total failure.  We are now losing the war on prescription medication in the open marketplace due to high level corruption.  The Mercer family become billionaires while the poor die in the streets or go to prison and face low wage dead end jobs for life.  The heroin being imported into the US is being guarded by the US occupying forces in Afghanistan, at a massive direct and indirect cost to taxpayers.
But we can't decriminalize and treat addicts because reasons.
 
2019-03-15 07:49:23 AM  

Mattbastard: Last I checked it's not impossible for black people to go to college, take out student loans, get a good education, then a good paying job in their industry of choice.

In fact, it's been a while since I went to college but where I went they were actively recruiting "people of color" with outstanding incentives to attend their campus.  Not so much for whitey.


I used to think like that in college. I was upset when I found out my girlfriend, who was hispanic, got a scholarship from her highschool designated for minorities. Then when I was older I realized that I hadn't put forth the effort in high school and didn't get scholarships because I didn't apply for them.

There is PLENTY of money for "whitey" out there. Don't get upset with the darker skinned kids because you're too lazy or stupid to get it.
 
2019-03-15 07:51:45 AM  

Ivandrago: I don't know why we're shiatting on the public defender in the headline. 
The PD's I know work just as hard and are as much a pain in the ass as the paid attorneys. 
Hell, I do more trials with PD's than I do with paid attorneys and they beat me more often, too. In the past year I can't recall losing a trial to a paid attorney and I lost a trial to a PD last week. 
So much BS in the story, too. I've never flinched at the naming of a defense attorney. No prosecutor worth their salt would. It's the facts and the evidence that make a case easy or hard to prove. Not the name or the suit. Usually discussions of quality revolve around "Would I hire that guy to defend me." Never "Oh no! He's hired Dave Dingus! I'd better offer a plea. There's no way we can win." 
These results were clearly the result of a plea. One that was 100% worked out before this preliminary hearing. Getting a good plea has little to do with the "quality" of opposing counsel and everything to do with the quality of the evidence. I give the same plea deals to PD's that I give to pay lawyers. 
Picking on PD's is a pet peeve of mine.

/Wanted to be a PD, but was hired by the prosecutor's office instead.


I have read just how much time a PD has for each case they are given.  I have no doubt PD is a trial via fire and results in great lawyers.  But often $ are the defining feature.

(my brother got off of shiat that he should never have gotten done for in the first place - the first time was an expensive lawyer paid by parents, the second was a PD, the PD rocked and had lawyers waiting for their case going psst this too.)
 
2019-03-15 07:52:23 AM  

Dick Gozinya: libranoelrose: Dick Gozinya: libranoelrose: Dick Gozinya: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Welcome to Fark, dude. Spin the 'Wheel of Outrage' to find out what today's topic will be...

For some reason I translate that to "I sure miss when Fark wasn't so uptight and we could all laugh at a good racist joke."

Dunno why.

Probably because you go around looking for things to misconstrue so you can get your daily dose of outrage?

Naw, I don't do that. I'm pretty laid back.

Must be something else.

libranoelrose: Of course it's not because black people have laws targeted directly against them, nope not at all, they just happen to be poor too.

Jesus Christ.

Yep....that's you laid back all right.


I'm not seeing the outrage, just a statement of fact.

It would be pretty hard to disagree with since it's pretty obvious it's been implemented so well.
 
2019-03-15 07:52:53 AM  

Langdon_777: libranoelrose: Langdon_777: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

Ultimately it isn't so much about race, but class, poor people suffer way more than rich people (regardless of skin colour.)

Yes a high percent of darker skinned people are in jail, but it is because more of them are poor.  Poor white people get shot by cops too, not so much if they are rich.

Of course it's not because black people have laws targeted directly against them, nope not at all, they just happen to be poor too.

Jesus Christ.

Oh I will not discount racism in policing as a serious problem (I have watched 2nd Amendment open carry vids involving different people and the police response) - but ultimately it comes down to how much money you have.  This article exemplifies it.


It's not just policing, it's legislation.
 
2019-03-15 07:53:01 AM  

wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.


Precisely. It is the poor and public defender that does it, not the skin color.

/ My spell checker must be Brittish.
// It wanted me to write skin colour.
 
2019-03-15 07:55:24 AM  

Ivandrago: I don't know why we're shiatting on the public defender in the headline. 
The PD's I know work just as hard and are as much a pain in the ass as the paid attorneys. 
Hell, I do more trials with PD's than I do with paid attorneys and they beat me more often, too. In the past year I can't recall losing a trial to a paid attorney and I lost a trial to a PD last week. 
So much BS in the story, too. I've never flinched at the naming of a defense attorney. No prosecutor worth their salt would. It's the facts and the evidence that make a case easy or hard to prove. Not the name or the suit. Usually discussions of quality revolve around "Would I hire that guy to defend me." Never "Oh no! He's hired Dave Dingus! I'd better offer a plea. There's no way we can win." 
These results were clearly the result of a plea. One that was 100% worked out before this preliminary hearing. Getting a good plea has little to do with the "quality" of opposing counsel and everything to do with the quality of the evidence. I give the same plea deals to PD's that I give to pay lawyers. 
Picking on PD's is a pet peeve of mine.

/Wanted to be a PD, but was hired by the prosecutor's office instead.


Also depends on who the attorney knows. I arrested a 27 year old man last year for driving while intoxicated. He blew over .20. His attorney was a prosecutor and the charge was dropped to Careless and Imprudent Driving with two years probation. Lawyers. fark em.
 
2019-03-15 07:57:28 AM  

MizzouFTW: He blew over .20.


In a row?

/sorry
 
2019-03-15 07:58:16 AM  

holdmybones: MizzouFTW: He blew over .20.

In a row?

/sorry


That will always make me laugh.
 
2019-03-15 08:03:26 AM  

Northern: So yes, law enforcement and the DA offices target the poor and get easy convictions.  The cost to defend a mandatory minimum drug charge of the DA wants to put you away is around $500,000 in legal fees.


Dear god where did you get this information? I don't know a single defense attorney who has ever made $500,000 on a single case. I've never heard of anything of $100,000 for even a murder. Maybe on TV that's what these things cost, but I can promise you that $500,000 is nowhere near a standard state drug charge. Maybe if it's federal and you're El Chapo?
Also, my boss, the Chief ADA for my division essentially told us this week "I don't care if you win, I just want you to do your job legally and competently."
I have no idea what my "conviction rate" is. Because I don't care. I'm not interested in easy convictions. Easy convictions mean the person who did it is probably guilty and then they usually plead guilty.
Lets say I see you with one count of driving under a suspended license (the most common thing we run across) and an accompanying charge of simple weed possession. I will always dismiss the weed if you plea to the license charge, and every one of my colleagues will do the same because we all think weed tickets are stupid. I literally did this yesterday for some guy.
 
2019-03-15 08:08:22 AM  
The guy was poor and black.
 
2019-03-15 08:13:25 AM  

Ivandrago: I don't know why we're shiatting on the public defender in the headline. 
The PD's I know work just as hard and are as much a pain in the ass as the paid attorneys. 
Hell, I do more trials with PD's than I do with paid attorneys and they beat me more often, too. In the past year I can't recall losing a trial to a paid attorney and I lost a trial to a PD last week. 
So much BS in the story, too. I've never flinched at the naming of a defense attorney. No prosecutor worth their salt would. It's the facts and the evidence that make a case easy or hard to prove. Not the name or the suit. Usually discussions of quality revolve around "Would I hire that guy to defend me." Never "Oh no! He's hired Dave Dingus! I'd better offer a plea. There's no way we can win." 
These results were clearly the result of a plea. One that was 100% worked out before this preliminary hearing. Getting a good plea has little to do with the "quality" of opposing counsel and everything to do with the quality of the evidence. I give the same plea deals to PD's that I give to pay lawyers. 
Picking on PD's is a pet peeve of mine.

/Wanted to be a PD, but was hired by the prosecutor's office instead.


I thought Dave Dingus was an accountant.  That's what shows up in a Google search on LinkedIn anyways...

/and a security manager, and a middle manager, and....
//who the fark would keep the last name Dingus?
///was their last name before Kluwlassmothafacka?
 
2019-03-15 08:21:14 AM  

gar1013: TheYeti: wearetheworld: Yes, sybby.  Because poor white people are immune from these problems.   Tired of Fark race baiting.

That's true, it's more class privilege than white privilege, but on average white people are less likely to be poor.  Even if they aren't well off they are far more likely to have a bank account, a credit card, or own a home, which are all ways to scrape together cash for a lawyer.

Isn't it time to have a conversation about Asian privilege then, if those are your barometers?  That could be problematic, as it might demonstrate that hard work and embracing education can make a significant difference over the span of a single generation.

Or are we just going to pretend that as a group, they don't score well in those measurements and continue quietly discriminating against them in the college application process under the guise of looking for "well rounded" students?


It's not my barometer.  Poor people can't afford good lawyers, more black people are poor as a percentage than white people.  I have no idea about Asian people, but I'd guess that they are have higher median income, but with fewer at the very top (in America) to drag their average way up.

I'm not introducing any social theory here (though I'm sure that there are some that would apply).
 
2019-03-15 08:23:06 AM  

gar1013: Krieghund: I don't think TFA says the band name, but the author was in The Lemons in 1995

Was he also in Lemon Party? Lemon Party was huge - look 'em up.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-15 08:33:23 AM  

davidphogan: As much as everyone hates lawyers, when you need one you'll love the motherfarker if you win.


On the other hand, you're also being persecuted by a lawyer on the prosecution side.

And the judge is also a lawyer.
 
Displayed 50 of 103 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter




In Other Media
Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report