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(BBC-US)   The truth about nitrates in your food: sometimes they're actually good for you   (bbc.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Ammonia, Nitrosamine, Meat, Nutrition, nitrite preservatives, Nitric oxide, Nitrogen, Nitrite  
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441 clicks; posted to Food » on 13 Mar 2019 at 8:35 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



15 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2019-03-13 05:06:26 PM  
Hey, it's the weekly "scientists say this food is bad/good for you". I'm going to see how the whole vodka/fried chicken things turns out.
 
2019-03-13 06:29:53 PM  

Mugato: Hey, it's the weekly "scientists say this food is bad/good for you". I'm going to see how the whole vodka/fried chicken things turns out.


I don't think cirrhotic chicken livers are a good idea.
 
2019-03-13 08:50:33 PM  
Nutritional science has been more besotted by poorly planned research, poorly devised statistics, and an over-reliance on non-human subjects that nearly all of the findings are either completely irrelevant or factually opposite of the truth.

1) Humans are obligate omnivores by evolution. Studying plant eating animals will reveal as little about humans as studying carnivores would reveal about herbivores. We are neither of those.

2) The research which purported to show that fat is the devil was factually wrong and may have been either faked or contaminated. The reality is that too much of anything is bad and too little of anything is bad. There are compounds in fats which are essential for good health and a low-fat diet will fail to meet those biological needs.

3) Statistics which purport to link consumption of X with an increase in Y problem are potentially flawed. Does X actually cause an increase in Y problem or do people who avoid X have a naturally better lifestyle habit including exercise which would mitigate Y completely?

The scientists aren't necessarily wrong. The reporting mechanism is wrong. Governments adopting bad science are definitely wrong. We need a reckoning which starts with good science, moves to good education, allows good reporting, and good government will follow. What we have is far too sensationalist to allow any good decision on any health matter. Which is precisely why we have so many public health problems in the first place!
 
2019-03-13 09:10:37 PM  
The day rates are cheaper.
 
2019-03-13 09:16:57 PM  
Your body makes more nitrates than you'll ever eat
Nearly all nitrates in your diet come from vegetables
Nitrates in cured meats typically come from celery
Spinach has 700x the nitrates as bacon

So if you think nitrates are bad for you, the only solution is to avoid all vegetables and commit suicide.
The rest of us will eat bacon!
/ mmm bacon
 
2019-03-13 09:17:03 PM  
John Tukey had plenty to say about this stuff in the early 1960s. He uh, did a few other notable things as well.

The linked paper is a good read that isn't overly math heavy, but the "How Shall We Proceed?" section at the end is particularly relevant. The current reproducibility crisis in which we find ourselves embroiled is definitely not a new, unforeseen phenomenon.
 
2019-03-13 09:54:40 PM  
Carbon
Hydrogen
Oxygen
Nitrogen

The common primary elements of life.  There are a zillion "nitrates", and what can be made of them.

You can't lump them together, as good or bad. We'd die without a bunch of them operating in our bodies, or by eating the natural strychnine nitrate from the plant that makes it.

I've gone through my life watching people jump to simple conclusions and recommend inappropriate medical treatment based on it, often symptomatic to cancel the body's defenses.  Lower that fever in the kids quick, aspirin them down. Well, not any more, it gives them Reye's Syndrome, but "children's aspirin" is stil sold, ironically to old people to prevent heart disease. Look at those saturated fats, solid at room temperature. Imagine them to be plaque slathered inside your arteries. Yuck! Better substitute trans-fats into that cookie instead of coconut oil! I actually read an old Readers Digest article arguing the FDA was murdering untold numbers of people by not allowing "heart-healthy" medical claims in ads for trans-fats and foods containing them. Which conservatism turned out pretty wise in the long run.  Oh, anti-oxidants!  Drink your anthocyanins! breed super-purple GMO potatoes! Never mind isotope tracing has shown the carbon and oxygen they contain never ends up in your system, like that in your Acetyl-Coenzyme A supplements never gets into your mitochondria. But we can at least pretend they're in there fighting our own body's immune system trying to kill bacteria and cancer cells with oxidants.

And any vitamins that support and stimulate cell growth are going to magically do the opposite in cancer cells instead of promoting and supplying their need to grow quickly. Love that one too.

But "nitrates" in general? What's next, avoid onions because something else bad contains sulphur?
 
2019-03-13 10:46:11 PM  

NakedDrummer: Your body makes more nitrates than you'll ever eat
Nearly all nitrates in your diet come from vegetables
Nitrates in cured meats typically come from celery
Spinach has 700x the nitrates as bacon

So if you think nitrates are bad for you, the only solution is to avoid all vegetables and commit suicide.
The rest of us will eat bacon!
/ mmm bacon


Strangely, I just had this discussion with the wife.  She bought "nitrate free" sliced ham and couldn't figure out why I was giving her the "you're too dumb to be real" look.

Then I asked her to read the ingredients.  Sure enough, celery powder.

"So sweetheart, what do you think is in celery powder?"

She figured it out.
 
2019-03-14 04:43:49 AM  

casual disregard: Nutritional science has been more besotted by poorly planned research, poorly devised statistics, and an over-reliance on non-human subjects that nearly all of the findings are either completely irrelevant or factually opposite of the truth.

1) Humans are obligate omnivores by evolution. Studying plant eating animals will reveal as little about humans as studying carnivores would reveal about herbivores. We are neither of those.

2) The research which purported to show that fat is the devil was factually wrong and may have been either faked or contaminated. The reality is that too much of anything is bad and too little of anything is bad. There are compounds in fats which are essential for good health and a low-fat diet will fail to meet those biological needs.

3) Statistics which purport to link consumption of X with an increase in Y problem are potentially flawed. Does X actually cause an increase in Y problem or do people who avoid X have a naturally better lifestyle habit including exercise which would mitigate Y completely?

The scientists aren't necessarily wrong. The reporting mechanism is wrong. Governments adopting bad science are definitely wrong. We need a reckoning which starts with good science, moves to good education, allows good reporting, and good government will follow. What we have is far too sensationalist to allow any good decision on any health matter. Which is precisely why we have so many public health problems in the first place!


This is the way science works. Accepted ideas can be shot down or refined with further research, and it goes on and on...hopefully. As far as the reporting goes....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
2019-03-14 07:50:42 AM  
Anectdotally, some form of nitrates, or something closely correlated with nitrates, gives my wife blinding headaches. We've been together for almost 20 years and I've seen it happen multiple times.

Too much traditional cured bacon? Headache. 'Uncured' bacon (with celery extract), no headache.

Margarita from a mix? Headache. Fresh margarita? No headache.

Same with many other things (uncured meats, etc), and the ones with celery extract don't cause her headaches.

The strangest one was correlated with seafood. She kept getting her 'margarita mix' headaches after eating at various seafood restaurants, and we couldn't figure it out. One day at home I cooked up some wild-caught shrimp with nothing else and her headache hit big time.

After doing some research we found many/most that commercial shrimpers douse their catch in nitrates right out of the net to prevent discoloration, and retailers are not required to list it as an ingredient.

Again, this is a sample size of one, but I've seen it happen consistently enough to know it's happening to her, and it's correlated with "nitrate" as a separate ingredient, but not with celery extract.
 
2019-03-14 08:19:56 AM  

EngineerBoy: Anectdotally, some form of nitrates, or something closely correlated with nitrates, gives my wife blinding headaches. We've been together for almost 20 years and I've seen it happen multiple times.

Too much traditional cured bacon? Headache. 'Uncured' bacon (with celery extract), no headache.

Margarita from a mix? Headache. Fresh margarita? No headache.

Same with many other things (uncured meats, etc), and the ones with celery extract don't cause her headaches.

The strangest one was correlated with seafood. She kept getting her 'margarita mix' headaches after eating at various seafood restaurants, and we couldn't figure it out. One day at home I cooked up some wild-caught shrimp with nothing else and her headache hit big time.

After doing some research we found many/most that commercial shrimpers douse their catch in nitrates right out of the net to prevent discoloration, and retailers are not required to list it as an ingredient.

Again, this is a sample size of one, but I've seen it happen consistently enough to know it's happening to her, and it's correlated with "nitrate" as a separate ingredient, but not with celery extract.


My wife was chronic migraines.  We also avoid nitrates because they seem to trigger them.  I make my own ranch dressing, ketchup and stock (among other things) to avoid nitrates and onions.
 
2019-03-14 09:17:00 AM  
Saving our bacon for years.
 
2019-03-14 11:59:06 AM  
Nitrates breakdown to form nitrites that break down to form nitrous oxide. It is the NOx that kills the anaerobic bacteria.

If you smoke meats, either smoke at a high enough temp to cook or use nitrates/nitrites if a low temp.
 
2019-03-14 02:02:25 PM  

rohar: NakedDrummer: Your body makes more nitrates than you'll ever eat
Nearly all nitrates in your diet come from vegetables
Nitrates in cured meats typically come from celery
Spinach has 700x the nitrates as bacon

So if you think nitrates are bad for you, the only solution is to avoid all vegetables and commit suicide.
The rest of us will eat bacon!
/ mmm bacon

Strangely, I just had this discussion with the wife.  She bought "nitrate free" sliced ham and couldn't figure out why I was giving her the "you're too dumb to be real" look.

Then I asked her to read the ingredients.  Sure enough, celery powder.

"So sweetheart, what do you think is in celery powder?"

She figured it out.


Your post reads like the embodiment of "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole."
 
2019-03-14 07:18:28 PM  
I prefer nitrotes, myself.

/also nitrotes
//and delicious, delectable nitrutes
///supper time!
 
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