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(CBC)   Now America's hat puts a cap on the Max 8. Stick a fork in it, it's done   (cbc.ca) divider line
    More: Followup, Airline, Lufthansa, Southwest Airlines, Air New Zealand, wake of the Ethiopian Airlines crash, Federal Aviation Administration, Avianca, Transport Minister Marc Garneau  
•       •       •

5424 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2019 at 12:39 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-03-13 12:40:26 PM  
Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.
 
2019-03-13 12:41:39 PM  
Good for Canada.

What's your excuse, FAA?
 
2019-03-13 12:41:52 PM  

deanis: Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.


Trump doesn't know which way is potato.
 
2019-03-13 12:42:04 PM  
"Canadia is only doing this to make Trump look bad!"
- Donald J. Trump
 
2019-03-13 12:42:12 PM  

deanis: Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.


I don't get why Boeing isn't asking them to ground 'em all.  As bad as this is now, imagine a Southwest flight goes down on top of the other two?  There would probably be criminal charges.
 
2019-03-13 12:42:17 PM  

BlackPete: Good for Canada.

What's your excuse, FAA?


Misplaced the right form to use.
 
2019-03-13 12:43:09 PM  

BlackPete: What's your excuse, FAA?


Republicans are in charge.
 
2019-03-13 12:44:01 PM  
We need to make one of those old school 70s disaster movies. Airport 2019 MAX

/and shoot it in iMax.
 
2019-03-13 12:44:10 PM  
So let's say I am supposed to fly on a Max 8 today, and do not think it is safe...are the US airlines charging change/cancelation fees?
 
2019-03-13 12:44:41 PM  
Cheque didn't clear?
 
2019-03-13 12:44:47 PM  
 
2019-03-13 12:45:16 PM  
The Boeing employees in the US Congress would never ground Boeing planes.
 
2019-03-13 12:45:19 PM  

Endive Wombat: So let's say I am supposed to fly on a Max 8 today, and do not think it is safe...are the US airlines charging change/cancelation fees?


Does the Pope shiat in the woods?
 
2019-03-13 12:47:28 PM  
Prediction: Donnie is going to tweet that Canada is only doing this to help push Canadair's new C100 (now A220) jet, whose rollout was hurt by Donnie's tariff-tantrum.
 
2019-03-13 12:47:47 PM  

BlackPete: Good for Canada.

What's your excuse, FAA?


Probly hasn't reached minimum death count yet.
 
2019-03-13 12:48:24 PM  

deanis: Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.


Just a phone call (few links down from the NyTimes). Trump's a cheap date.

Boeing's chief executive, Dennis A. Muilenburg, called from Chicago and expressed to Mr. Trump his confidence in the safety of the 737 Max 8 jets, according to two people briefed on the conversation. Two of the planes flown by overseas carriers have crashed in recent months in similar accidents.
 
2019-03-13 12:48:26 PM  

nekom: deanis: Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.

I don't get why Boeing isn't asking them to ground 'em all.  As bad as this is now, imagine a Southwest flight goes down on top of the other two?  There would probably be criminal charges.


Boeing is opening themselves up to a huge liability if another one goes down.
 
2019-03-13 12:49:02 PM  
Since all the aviation experts on Fark are convinced MCAS did it... I'm sure you all know that the Ethiopian pilots had just completed training on how to disable the system if the encounter the fault?

So.. all the Fark aviation "experts" all think that Ethiopian is negligent in their maintenance and has incompetent pilots?  So, uh.. why exactly do you think it's Boeings fault?
 
2019-03-13 12:49:51 PM  

deanis: Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.


At this point I am surprised the airlines don't yank them. If there is an accident now they are farked.
 
2019-03-13 12:50:22 PM  
Even if Boeing issues a patch which "fixes" the problem, who the hell is really going to trust it? People are now more and more aware of patches which supposedly "fix" their OS/Fallout/Anthem and still leaves it borked six ways till Sunday, so they certainly ain't going to trust this one.
 
2019-03-13 12:50:23 PM  
Whole lotta rocket scientists in this thread.
 
2019-03-13 12:51:00 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Since all the aviation experts on Fark are convinced MCAS did it... I'm sure you all know that the Ethiopian pilots had just completed training on how to disable the system if the encounter the fault?

So.. all the Fark aviation "experts" all think that Ethiopian is negligent in their maintenance and has incompetent pilots?  So, uh.. why exactly do you think it's Boeings fault?


There's also a link in the business tab that says American pilots have had the same nosedive problem while autopilot was engaged and MCAS was supposedly off.

Something is seriously wrong with these planes.
 
2019-03-13 12:51:38 PM  

wearetheworld: Whole lotta rocket surgeons in this thread.


Fixed.
 
2019-03-13 12:51:38 PM  

Endive Wombat: So let's say I am supposed to fly on a Max 8 today, and do not think it is safe...are the US airlines charging change/cancelation fees?


As of yesterday, yes.
 
2019-03-13 12:52:14 PM  

BlackPete: Good for Canada.

What's your excuse, FAA?


Well, after Trump's personal pilot got shut down as the head of the FAA, there's only been an acting head. And bribes from Boeing.
 
2019-03-13 12:52:26 PM  
Remember, sports fans, the FAA only has an acting director - two years into the Trump administration.
 
2019-03-13 12:52:37 PM  
 
2019-03-13 12:54:03 PM  
FAA won't  do anything until a jet crashes in America.
Guess what? You're the guinea pig.
Feeling lucky punk? passenger?
 
2019-03-13 12:54:35 PM  
Mr_Vimes: ..."fixes" the problem

What problem?  You want Boeing to fix Lion Air so they don't dispatch aircraft with broke AoA sensors?  You want Boeing to fix Lion Airs pilots so they know how to use the trim controls?

The software "fix" that Boeing is issuing is so that the MCAS reads both the pilots and co-pilots AoA sensor and needs to see agreement before it acts.  That introduces it's own unique set of problems.
 
2019-03-13 12:54:44 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Since all the aviation experts on Fark are convinced MCAS did it... I'm sure you all know that the Ethiopian pilots had just completed training on how to disable the system if the encounter the fault?

So.. all the Fark aviation "experts" all think that Ethiopian is negligent in their maintenance and has incompetent pilots?  So, uh.. why exactly do you think it's Boeings fault?


So, the pilot and co-pilot had fish for dinner?
 
2019-03-13 12:56:27 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Since all the aviation experts on Fark are convinced MCAS did it... I'm sure you all know that the Ethiopian pilots had just completed training on how to disable the system if the encounter the fault?

So.. all the Fark aviation "experts" all think that Ethiopian is negligent in their maintenance and has incompetent pilots?  So, uh.. why exactly do you think it's Boeings fault?


img.fark.netView Full Size


https://twitter.com/tugberkdmn/status​/​1104740575893430273?s=21
 
2019-03-13 12:57:09 PM  
Might create an opportunity to get some Boeing stock at a good price.
 
2019-03-13 12:57:36 PM  

Walker: FAA won't  do anything until a jet crashes in America.
Guess what? You're the guinea pig.
Feeling lucky punk? passenger?


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
 
2019-03-13 12:57:54 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Mr_Vimes: ..."fixes" the problem

What problem?  You want Boeing to fix Lion Air so they don't dispatch aircraft with broke AoA sensors?  You want Boeing to fix Lion Airs pilots so they know how to use the trim controls?

The software "fix" that Boeing is issuing is so that the MCAS reads both the pilots and co-pilots AoA sensor and needs to see agreement before it acts.  That introduces it's own unique set of problems.


I wonder if there's a local anomaly with the AoA sensors. They are usually stuck on near the nose, and different aircraft configurations can introduce all sorts of errors with shifting boundary layers. Maybe the Max-8 wasn't vetted well enough to this effect, considering a major aircraft software component relies on those data.
 
2019-03-13 12:59:44 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Since all the aviation experts on Fark are convinced MCAS did it... I'm sure you all know that the Ethiopian pilots had just completed training on how to disable the system if the encounter the fault?

So.. all the Fark aviation "experts" all think that Ethiopian is negligent in their maintenance and has incompetent pilots?  So, uh.. why exactly do you think it's Boeings fault?


Because Lion Air flight that crashed would have had to have the some shortcomings in their maintenance and pilot skills.  Plus if the issue were maintenance and pilot skill then the chances of it being the exact same model of plane would be reduced.
 
2019-03-13 01:00:22 PM  
I was supposed to fly from WI > Sacramento today.  I was supposed to be on a 737 but not a MAX 8.

Between the weather crapping on half the country and the potential fall-out if the FAA did pull these planes I canceled.  I don't see any good coming from flying anywhere this week.
 
2019-03-13 01:00:29 PM  
This whole thing seems a bit overblown, the problem has happened at least 2 times in the US without catastrophe, with proper training and competent pilots it's not nearly as unsafe as the media is making it out to be.
 
2019-03-13 01:01:15 PM  

Billy Liar: BlackPete: Good for Canada.

What's your excuse, FAA?

Probly hasn't reached minimum death count yet.


<Fight_Club_Recall.Mpeg>
 
2019-03-13 01:01:19 PM  

Billy Liar: BlackPete: Good for Canada.

What's your excuse, FAA?

Probly hasn't reached minimum death count yet.


Close.  It hasn't reached the AMERICAN death count of >0 (in America or an American airline).  Once that happens, that backlash will be impossible to ignore.
 
2019-03-13 01:03:16 PM  

Endive Wombat: So let's say I am supposed to fly on a Max 8 today, and do not think it is safe...are the US airlines charging change/cancelation fees?


Hell, they'll charge you a preemptive insurance payout handling charge if you stay on the flight.
 
2019-03-13 01:03:45 PM  
If it's Boing, I aint going.
 
2019-03-13 01:05:01 PM  

swaniefrmreddeer: This whole thing seems a bit overblown, the problem has happened at least 2 times in the US without catastrophe, with proper training and competent pilots it's not nearly as unsafe as the media is making it out to be.


Um... saying that the problem has occurred many times and didn't end in catastrophe is NOT a good way to claim that things are fine. It's a way of saying, "hey, there's a problem here, and let's fix it before the next pilot isn't so lucky."
 
2019-03-13 01:06:08 PM  

koinbahd:

Yes, MCAS will re-engage until the pilots use either the electrically driven trim button on their control yoke or the manual trim wheel next to their knee.  Just like they should be doing while hand flying the plane anyways. (MCAS doesn't work on autopilot).  Yes, that means that the regular process of flying the plane by hand would have fixed the problem.  Yes, that means the Lion Air pilots would have saved the plane if they were competent in Stick and Rudder 101.

Muta: Because Lion Air flight that crashed would have had to have the some shortcomings in their maintenance and pilot skills.


They did.  Both.  The aircraft was dispatched repeatedly with a known faulty AoA sensor.  In fact, the MCAS fault showed up in an earlier flight and that flight crew didn't crash the plane because they knew how to fly the jet.  The incident crew on the other hand...
 
2019-03-13 01:06:10 PM  
HEY, BOEING!!

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-13 01:07:55 PM  

JDAT: Might create an opportunity to get some Boeing stock at a good price.


Theres that typical republican thought pattern.

Fark you I got (or will get) mine!
 
2019-03-13 01:08:38 PM  

deanis: Boeing must have made a large donation to Trump for him to allow us to fly those clap traps.


The top three (acting) FAA officials and the (ex-Boeing exec) Secretary of Defense (also acting) had no comment.
 
2019-03-13 01:09:24 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Mr_Vimes: ..."fixes" the problem

What problem?  You want Boeing to fix Lion Air so they don't dispatch aircraft with broke AoA sensors?  You want Boeing to fix Lion Airs pilots so they know how to use the trim controls?

The software "fix" that Boeing is issuing is so that the MCAS reads both the pilots and co-pilots AoA sensor and needs to see agreement before it acts.  That introduces it's own unique set of problems.


Boeing: we added this mcas thing to prevent stalls caused by the aerodynamics of the plane.

Also Boeing: just turn that thing off if it misbehaves, jeez
 
2019-03-13 01:10:01 PM  
Just out of curiosity, how does the sensor work, exactly?

It looks like a small vane that is rotated by drag, so if the aircraft is going straight forward, it should basically be aligned with the horizontal plane of the aircraft, but I'm confused about how that would show AOA through, say, an extended climb, because wouldn't the airflow past the plane also essentially be front to back at that point and cause the vane to align with the horizontal plane of the aircraft?  I would expect it to be off horizontal during a change in AOA when the angle of the aircraft isn't quite aligned with its actual direction of travel, but I would think airflow would settle it back to horizontal.

What am I missing?  Software witchcraft?
 
2019-03-13 01:10:16 PM  

swaniefrmreddeer: This whole thing seems a bit overblown, the problem has happened at least 2 times in the US without catastrophe, with proper training and competent pilots it's not nearly as unsafe as the media is making it out to be.


How do we set up a gofundme for you on one of these planes
 
2019-03-13 01:12:05 PM  
Oblig on these threads: How the Lion Air flight went down.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/20​18/12/26/world/asia/lion-air-crash-12-​minutes.html
 
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