Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   India bans Boeing 737 MAX planes from its airspace. So does gravity   (reuters.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Airline, Southwest Airlines, Jet Airways Ltd, Lufthansa, Aircraft, SpiceJet Ltd, Boeing, US Airways  
•       •       •

761 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2019 at 9:45 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2019-03-13 09:49:23 AM  
Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.
 
2019-03-13 09:51:37 AM  
Sure, maybe. In the future, perhaps. Nothing seems to be actually known at the moment, save "I'm from the government/industrial duopoly, and I'm here to help. Enjoy your flight!"
 
2019-03-13 09:52:13 AM  
Please do the needful??
 
2019-03-13 09:52:29 AM  
They are just sikhing a solution.
 
2019-03-13 09:56:20 AM  
Stick and Rudder Flying 101 here, people.  The "problem" is that the airframe has some software that tries to crash the plane, but if you pull up on the zipboards and trim out the rudder planes then the pitch up grabs on to the pedal cyclon and that allows you to readjust the planefazer to level out the aircraft.  These guys didn't know a banana lever from a turboknob.  These guys couldn't even fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong.
 
2019-03-13 10:00:40 AM  

KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.


Technically, they are. This problem has occurred on a number of flights. They check the instruments to see that two out of three angle of attack indicators are operating correctly and switch control to the other pilot. The crashes are in all likelihood due to poor CRM and/or pilots who are way too reliant on letting the plane fly itself. Yes, there is a problem with the angle of attack sensors. There is a bigger problem with the pilots not being able to take the stick and fly the plane.
 
2019-03-13 10:04:12 AM  

KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.


New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.
 
2019-03-13 10:06:21 AM  

KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.


If it was just human error, then the plane wouldn't be grounded across most of the world

There's something more to it.

Hell regulatory agencies love pilot errors because you can blame one person and move on without changing anything. The fact that pilot error isn't being accepted as the excuse this time should indicate something more troubling
 
2019-03-13 10:06:42 AM  
Are you saying they poo-poo'd it?
 
2019-03-13 10:07:23 AM  

fsbilly: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

Technically, they are. This problem has occurred on a number of flights. They check the instruments to see that two out of three angle of attack indicators are operating correctly and switch control to the other pilot. The crashes are in all likelihood due to poor CRM and/or pilots who are way too reliant on letting the plane fly itself. Yes, there is a problem with the angle of attack sensors. There is a bigger problem with the pilots not being able to take the stick and fly the plane.


I'll need a citation for "pilots not being able to fly a plane" please
 
2019-03-13 10:08:31 AM  

Gubbo: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

If it was just human error, then the plane wouldn't be grounded across most of the world

There's something more to it.

Hell regulatory agencies love pilot errors because you can blame one person and move on without changing anything. The fact that pilot error isn't being accepted as the excuse this time should indicate something more troubling


Black Box data hasn't even been released yet and everyone is grounding the planes. How do they know it has to be something else?
 
2019-03-13 10:12:26 AM  

fsbilly: There is a bigger problem with the pilots not being able to take the stick and fly the plane.


When the new "feature" isn't even mentioned in the updated pilots docs...
And when the plane itself fights you for control when you, the pilot, notice the problem...

Boeing farked up and pulled an airbus.
 
2019-03-13 10:16:37 AM  
Ok having read an article that didn't take 5 paragraphs to say "India grounded their planes, but some airlines grounded them before the crash because they can't afford maintenance," I see that there may be a problem.
 
2019-03-13 10:16:56 AM  
If this was an Airbus problem, would all the defenders be here?
 
2019-03-13 10:25:32 AM  
And the USA is the only country not to have grounded this plane.
 
2019-03-13 10:26:19 AM  
I like trains.
 
2019-03-13 10:28:43 AM  

KangTheMad: Ok having read an article that didn't take 5 paragraphs to say "India grounded their planes, but some airlines grounded them before the crash because they can't afford maintenance," I see that there may be a problem.


I must have read it wrong because I don't see that line?
 
2019-03-13 10:30:52 AM  

thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.


Agreed.  If these human errors, as the madman calls them, were that frequent, then you would see all models of jetliners crashing more frequently.
 
2019-03-13 10:36:33 AM  

kpaxoid: thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.

Agreed.  If these human errors, as the madman calls them, were that frequent, then you would see all models of jetliners crashing more frequently.


I can see the logic. The plane's software not knowing it's angle of attack sensor is sending bad data and insisting on trying to put the plane into a dive despite the pilot fighting it to pull up instead is a feature, not a bug. Therefore, pilot error.
 
2019-03-13 10:46:46 AM  

pheelix: kpaxoid: thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.

Agreed.  If these human errors, as the madman calls them, were that frequent, then you would see all models of jetliners crashing more frequently.

I can see the logic. The plane's software not knowing it's angle of attack sensor is sending bad data and insisting on trying to put the plane into a dive despite the pilot fighting it to pull up instead is a feature, not a bug. Therefore, pilot error.


If a car's lane assist feature uses a bad sensor and steers me into another car, I can see how the driver would be at fault since they have ultimate manual override control. However if the feature could override my manual control every 10 seconds by design, that is a different story. 

Lion Air:
"In their fight against the automatic system, the pilots repeatedly held down the electric stabilizer trim switch to bring the plane's nose up. But it was only a temporary fix, and after about 10 seconds, the automatic system kicked back in. "
 
2019-03-13 10:52:30 AM  

Gubbo: If this was an Airbus problem, would all the defenders be here?


No
 
2019-03-13 11:06:13 AM  

thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.


Possibly.

Or it could be that hackers have found a way to compromise the flight computer.. Boeing is the 5th largest military contractor and the US leads in aviation development and manufacturing. China is trying desperately to sell their airliners and become a respected player in aviation. It's a wild conspiracy theory but not outside the realm of reality.

The max builds off of the decades of 737 development and the flight systems build of previous versions. I find it hard to believe that a flight control logic problem made it past development and testing.
 
2019-03-13 11:08:22 AM  

Gubbo: KangTheMad: Ok having read an article that didn't take 5 paragraphs to say "India grounded their planes, but some airlines grounded them before the crash because they can't afford maintenance," I see that there may be a problem.

I must have read it wrong because I don't see that line?


India banned the airplane from flying in their airspace. The article goes on to mention an Indian airline responded to tweets by saying they don't even own the 737MAX, and then the article mentions that airline grounded a couple dozen entirely different planes before the Ethiopian crash because they couldn't afford to maintain them. Which is entirely unnecessary to mention.
 
2019-03-13 11:08:59 AM  
Planes banned. Cows have spoken.
 
2019-03-13 11:10:51 AM  

KangTheMad: Gubbo: KangTheMad: Ok having read an article that didn't take 5 paragraphs to say "India grounded their planes, but some airlines grounded them before the crash because they can't afford maintenance," I see that there may be a problem.

I must have read it wrong because I don't see that line?

India banned the airplane from flying in their airspace. The article goes on to mention an Indian airline responded to tweets by saying they don't even own the 737MAX, and then the article mentions that airline grounded a couple dozen entirely different planes before the Ethiopian crash because they couldn't afford to maintain them. Which is entirely unnecessary to mention.


No actually. The article says they couldn't make financing payments. Nothing about maintenance.
 
2019-03-13 11:11:48 AM  

Gubbo: KangTheMad: Gubbo: KangTheMad: Ok having read an article that didn't take 5 paragraphs to say "India grounded their planes, but some airlines grounded them before the crash because they can't afford maintenance," I see that there may be a problem.

I must have read it wrong because I don't see that line?

India banned the airplane from flying in their airspace. The article goes on to mention an Indian airline responded to tweets by saying they don't even own the 737MAX, and then the article mentions that airline grounded a couple dozen entirely different planes before the Ethiopian crash because they couldn't afford to maintain them. Which is entirely unnecessary to mention.

No actually. The article says they couldn't make financing payments. Nothing about maintenance.


Apparently I cannot function in the mornings.
 
2019-03-13 11:13:09 AM  

Dadoody: Planes banned. Cows have spoken.


Speaking is tolerated, but the damn farting is gonna be legislated out of existence.
 
2019-03-13 11:26:27 AM  

penetrating_virga: thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.

Possibly.

Or it could be that hackers have found a way to compromise the flight computer.. Boeing is the 5th largest military contractor and the US leads in aviation development and manufacturing. China is trying desperately to sell their airliners and become a respected player in aviation. It's a wild conspiracy theory but not outside the realm of reality.

The max builds off of the decades of 737 development and the flight systems build of previous versions. I find it hard to believe that a flight control logic problem made it past development and testing.


Boeing made significant changes to the MAX on the same systems being called into question after the crashes. More good stuff about what they changed here. The saying "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" applies in this case.
 
2019-03-13 11:27:58 AM  

thehobbes: pheelix: kpaxoid: thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.

Agreed.  If these human errors, as the madman calls them, were that frequent, then you would see all models of jetliners crashing more frequently.

I can see the logic. The plane's software not knowing it's angle of attack sensor is sending bad data and insisting on trying to put the plane into a dive despite the pilot fighting it to pull up instead is a feature, not a bug. Therefore, pilot error.

If a car's lane assist feature uses a bad sensor and steers me into another car, I can see how the driver would be at fault since they have ultimate manual override control. However if the feature could override my manual control every 10 seconds by design, that is a different story. 

Lion Air:
"In their fight against the automatic system, the pilots repeatedly held down the electric stabilizer trim switch to bring the plane's nose up. But it was only a temporary fix, and after about 10 seconds, the automatic system kicked back in. "


My comment was pure sarcasm, so yeah, what you said.
 
2019-03-13 11:34:43 AM  
cdn.skim.gsView Full Size
 
2019-03-13 11:36:01 AM  
Remember the old 'If it's not Boeing, I ain't going'? Now it's '737? Get ready for heaven.'
 
2019-03-13 11:36:48 AM  
One might crash into the Ganges and make a slightly cleaner spot.
 
2019-03-13 11:48:46 AM  

pheelix: thehobbes: pheelix: kpaxoid: thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.

Agreed.  If these human errors, as the madman calls them, were that frequent, then you would see all models of jetliners crashing more frequently.

I can see the logic. The plane's software not knowing it's angle of attack sensor is sending bad data and insisting on trying to put the plane into a dive despite the pilot fighting it to pull up instead is a feature, not a bug. Therefore, pilot error.

If a car's lane assist feature uses a bad sensor and steers me into another car, I can see how the driver would be at fault since they have ultimate manual override control. However if the feature could override my manual control every 10 seconds by design, that is a different story. 

Lion Air:
"In their fight against the automatic system, the pilots repeatedly held down the electric stabilizer trim switch to bring the plane's nose up. But it was only a temporary fix, and after about 10 seconds, the automatic system kicked back in. "

My comment was pure sarcasm, so yeah, what you said.


My sarcasm detector was made by Boeing.

And I think I've read that exact argument from a Boeing defender this week..
 
2019-03-13 11:51:23 AM  
Canada just grounded the 737 MAX. They said they received new information this morning which prompted action. 

Now we wait for the FAA.
 
2019-03-13 12:04:25 PM  

thehobbes: Canada just grounded the 737 MAX. They said they received new information this morning which prompted action. 

Now we wait for the FAA.


Well. This isn't good.
 
2019-03-13 12:09:13 PM  

skinink: And the USA is the only country not to have grounded this plane.


Only stupid people would get on one. Self correcting behavior.
 
2019-03-13 12:15:43 PM  

thehobbes: Canada just grounded the 737 MAX. They said they received new information this morning which prompted action. 

Now we wait for the FAA.


It's going to take a while I bet .That would inconvenience Southwest having a bunch of planes down. So they will allow it, while making concerned noises

/Most dangerous thing in aviation; 2 Southwest jets on a collision course. Both have right of way
 
2019-03-13 12:22:15 PM  
Maybe the Pilots should try flying the plane. Thats what they are paid for.
 
2019-03-13 12:24:39 PM  

oldfarthenry: I like trains.


are you Fred Eaglesmith?
 
2019-03-13 12:26:44 PM  
What's a plain?
- Darnold Trump
 
2019-03-13 01:04:18 PM  

fsbilly: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

Technically, they are. This problem has occurred on a number of flights. They check the instruments to see that two out of three angle of attack indicators are operating correctly and switch control to the other pilot. The crashes are in all likelihood due to poor CRM and/or pilots who are way too reliant on letting the plane fly itself. Yes, there is a problem with the angle of attack sensors. There is a bigger problem with the pilots not being able to take the stick and fly the plane.


That would be wonderful and all, but Boeing's own engineers have said it is a fatal flaw.  If this was just some test plane that they were fixing "bugs" on whatever. Pilots shouldn't have to fight and adjust the AOA on a common air passenger plane.  This shouldn't be a thing on a commercially available and plane used to carry passengers.
 
2019-03-13 01:21:34 PM  

thehobbes: KangTheMad: Watch the crashes turn out to have been human error.

New plane model and 2 crashes within 6 months with similar flight profiles?

This is an engineering/programming problem.


It's a programming.  The original "fix" was supposed to be released in January, but since the government shutdown happened the FAA could not review/test and give it's stamp of approval.  So now its expected out in April.
 
2019-03-13 02:14:16 PM  
So, you all made a Smart Plane that could fly itself and now it doesn't want you to fly it?

NICE JOB!!
 
2019-03-13 02:26:31 PM  

Gubbo: 'll need a citation for "pilots not being able to fly a plane" please


Here's one article. I am not saying there isn't something wrong with the plane. I am saying proper CRM can, and has, allowed pilots to correct for and recover from this exact issue. The plane was flyable. The error was recoverable early on. Inexperience, poor training and possibly even crew culture likely impeded recovery.
 
2019-03-13 02:33:49 PM  

fsbilly: Gubbo: 'll need a citation for "pilots not being able to fly a plane" please

Here's one article. I am not saying there isn't something wrong with the plane. I am saying proper CRM can, and has, allowed pilots to correct for and recover from this exact issue. The plane was flyable. The error was recoverable early on. Inexperience, poor training and possibly even crew culture likely impeded recovery.


The safety system that they weren't told existed?
 
2019-03-13 03:01:56 PM  
Gubbo:
The safety system that they weren't told existed?

I'm not sure what you're arguing at this point. All I am saying is that ultimately this could have been recovered from. They lost situational awareness. They crashed the plane that was totally still flyable. It has happened before.

Yes. Boeing probably should have done more. Still doesn't mean the pilots are without fault. Can't wait to read the CVR transcript.
 
Displayed 46 of 46 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter




In Other Media
Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report