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(Vox)   Obama: Here's overtime pay to you workers getting screwed out of wages. Trump: *yoink*   (vox.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Employment, Fair Labor Standards Act, Organizational studies and human resource management, Wage, Salary, Department of Labor, Labour relations, President of the United States  
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2250 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Mar 2019 at 3:11 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2019-03-13 04:16:51 AM  
So.

Much.

WINNING!!!
 
2019-03-13 04:30:46 AM  
Obama: Here's overtime pay to you workers getting screwed out of wages. Trump: *yoink*

I,. too, like to simplify an issue to the point where I don't actually understand it at all.
 
2019-03-13 04:43:54 AM  
Womp! Womp!
 
2019-03-13 05:01:44 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-13 05:40:49 AM  
If you can't afford to pay your workers appropriately then you shouldn't be in business.  35K limit on eligibility for mandatory overtime pay is a travesty and feeds into the lie that 'salary' means open rights to unlimited amounts of your time.
 
2019-03-13 06:22:59 AM  

2chris2: I,. too, like to simplify an issue to the point where I don't actually understand it at all.


Yeah, that's obvious.
 
2019-03-13 06:31:55 AM  
They could join\from a union. Then the workers are are taken care of proper like, right?
 
2019-03-13 06:46:45 AM  
TFA: With few exceptions, only workers who earn less than $23,000 a year can currently earn overtime pay under federal law. Overtime wages are defined as 50 percent extra hourly pay for employees who work more than 40 hours in a week.

Stopped reading there. Can someone find a less stupid article about this issue?
 
2019-03-13 07:07:51 AM  

silverfoxx1974: They could join\from a union. Then the workers are are taken care of proper like, right?


I know I am in my union.
 
2019-03-13 07:33:18 AM  

Manfred J. Hattan: TFA: With few exceptions, only workers who earn less than $23,000 a year can currently earn overtime pay under federal law. Overtime wages are defined as 50 percent extra hourly pay for employees who work more than 40 hours in a week.

Stopped reading there. Can someone find a less stupid article about this issue?


An entire editing staff that's never worked an hour of overtime in their collective lives.
 
2019-03-13 07:58:28 AM  
The US should look into forming a legislative body that could write laws and engage in wars and the like. This way things aren't done all via executive fiat.

Maybe one day.
 
2019-03-13 08:04:27 AM  
Goimir:

An entire editing staff that's never workedbeen paid an hour of overtime in their collective lives.
 
2019-03-13 09:12:36 AM  
Well I never got overtime pay from obama so Trumps just making things fair.
 
2019-03-13 09:27:55 AM  
It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime
 
2019-03-13 09:35:32 AM  

silverfoxx1974: They could join\from a union. Then the workers are are taken care of proper like, right?


In the places they're still legal, yes.
 
2019-03-13 09:41:57 AM  

machoprogrammer: It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime


It's not, but it is complicated on what makes you eligible with a lot falling to your particular duties.  And just because someone is salaried doesn't mean they don't get overtime pay under the law.
 
2019-03-13 09:46:52 AM  
The Obama OT plan was scrapped by a federal judge. Trump's labor secretary is trying to launch one that won't get tossed out.

So, obviously, Trump Scraps Obama Overtime Plan!!!
 
2019-03-13 10:00:26 AM  

Manfred J. Hattan: TFA: With few exceptions, only workers who earn less than $23,000 a year can currently earn overtime pay under federal law. Overtime wages are defined as 50 percent extra hourly pay for employees who work more than 40 hours in a week.

Stopped reading there. Can someone find a less stupid article about this issue?


I found one over at nol.gov.

Current Policy:

The employee must be compensated on a salary basis (as defined in the regulations) at a rate not less than $455* per week;

New Proposal:

On March 7, 2019 the Department of Labor announced a proposed rule that would make more than a million more American workers eligible for overtime.
Under currently enforced law, employees with a salary below $455 per week ($23,660 annually) must be paid overtime if they work more than 40 hours per week. Workers making at least this salary level may be eligible for overtime based on their job duties. This salary level was set in 2004.
This proposal would boost the proposed standard salary level to $679 per week (equivalent to $35,308 per year). Above this salary level, eligibility for overtime varies based on job duties.

The NPRM includes:
The proposal increases the minimum salary required for an employee to qualify for exemption from the currently-enforced level of $455 to $679 per week (equivalent to $35,308 per year).
The proposal increases the total annual compensation requirement for "highly compensated employees" (HCE) from the currently-enforced level of $100,000 to $147,414 per year.
A commitment to periodic review to update the salary threshold. An update would continue to require notice-and-comment rulemaking.
Allowing employers to use nondiscretionary bonuses and incentive payments (including commissions) that are paid annually or more frequently to satisfy up to 10 percent of the standard salary level.
No changes overtime protections for:
Police Officers
Fire Fighters
Paramedics
Nurses
Laborers including: non-management production-line employees
Non-management employees in maintenance, construction and similar occupations such as carpenters, electricians, mechanics, plumbers, iron workers, craftsmen, operating engineers, longshoremen, and construction workers
No changes to the job duties test.
No automatic adjustments to the salary threshold.
The Department will consider all timely comments in developing a final rule.
 
2019-03-13 10:19:24 AM  
If only there were subdivisions of government that would allow the individual units to make their own laws about things instead of us trying to administer every facet of existence at the federal level.
 
2019-03-13 10:32:44 AM  
But Obama's decision to double the limit created quite an uproar. In brief, here's what followed: Powerful businesses groups freaked out. Then they joined 21 Republican-controlled states to sue the administration before the rule went into effect in 2016. The rule was put on hold during the legal dispute. A federal judge in Texas invalidated it in 2017, arguing that the Labor Department didn't have the authority to make such a drastic change.

YEAH fark TRUMP! Trying to find a middle ground that would please everyone.
We should continue to squeeze companies bottom lines as much as you can so when they pass on the costs to us, we can complain about how much everything costs!
 
2019-03-13 10:42:55 AM  

mrsleep: But Obama's decision to double the limit created quite an uproar. In brief, here's what followed: Powerful businesses groups freaked out. Then they joined 21 Republican-controlled states to sue the administration before the rule went into effect in 2016. The rule was put on hold during the legal dispute. A federal judge in Texas invalidated it in 2017, arguing that the Labor Department didn't have the authority to make such a drastic change.

YEAH fark TRUMP! Trying to find a middle ground that would please everyone.
We should continue to squeeze companies bottom lines as much as you can so when they pass on the costs to us, we can complain about how much everything costs!


Nobody cares about executive over-reach unless the other party is in charge.

Congress has diluted its own power almost completely and the country is suffering for it.
 
2019-03-13 10:51:56 AM  

machoprogrammer: It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime


No kidding.  I lost two very talented employees because of this.
 
2019-03-13 10:58:41 AM  

Stig2112: machoprogrammer: It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime

No kidding.  I lost two very talented employees because of this.


You know, you can pay them overtime even if it's not mandatory.
 
2019-03-13 11:02:34 AM  

MugzyBrown: Stig2112: machoprogrammer: It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime

No kidding.  I lost two very talented employees because of this.

You know, you can pay them overtime even if it's not mandatory.


Unfortunately I can't.  We're in local government and our wages are set by salary ordinance.  I'm working with city council to get the ordinance changed, but even when the council is feeling agreeable it's like getting blood from a stone.
 
2019-03-13 11:05:12 AM  

machoprogrammer: It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime


That's why I took the hourly rate that pays me 15k more than the salary I was offered. I don't get the worthless insurance or the 5 days paid holiday, but I do get overtime if I have to work it. A lot of that is remote anyways.
 
2019-03-13 11:13:35 AM  

jso2897: silverfoxx1974: They could join\from a union. Then the workers are are taken care of proper like, right?

In the places they're still legal, yes.


They're legal everywhere. What you mean is in the places where they're not mandatory.
 
2019-03-13 11:25:23 AM  

Stig2112: MugzyBrown: Stig2112: machoprogrammer: It'd be nice if IT was no longer exempt from overtime

No kidding.  I lost two very talented employees because of this.

You know, you can pay them overtime even if it's not mandatory.

Unfortunately I can't.  We're in local government and our wages are set by salary ordinance.  I'm working with city council to get the ordinance changed, but even when the council is feeling agreeable it's like getting blood from a stone.


Check out https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17​e​_computer.htm You might be able to find a workaround by changing their "primary" duty a little here & there over time.
 
2019-03-13 11:26:55 AM  

zeroflight222: Check out https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e​_computer.htm You might be able to find a workaround by changing their "primary" duty a little here & there over time.


So you're encouraging him to defraud the local government?
 
2019-03-13 11:32:40 AM  

MugzyBrown: zeroflight222: Check out https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e​_computer.htm You might be able to find a workaround by changing their "primary" duty a little here & there over time.

So you're encouraging him to defraud the local government?


Defrauding is illegally obtaining by deception.  I'm suggestion an option where the employees' jobs change enough to fall into the appropriate legal definitions, which is not deception and completely legal.
 
2019-03-13 11:34:03 AM  
*and is completely legal
 
2019-03-13 11:36:34 AM  

gunsmack: The Obama OT plan was scrapped by a federal judge. Trump's labor secretary is trying to launch one that won't get tossed out.

So, obviously, Trump Scraps Obama Overtime Plan!!!


Yeah, it seems that in the considerable pantheon of "Trump undoes something because Obama did it and for no other reason" this one falls pretty low on the list if a judge undid it first.
 
2019-03-13 11:49:10 AM  

Manfred J. Hattan: TFA: With few exceptions, only workers who earn less than $23,000 a year can currently earn overtime pay under federal law. Overtime wages are defined as 50 percent extra hourly pay for employees who work more than 40 hours in a week.

Stopped reading there. Can someone find a less stupid article about this issue?


"Today, fewer than 7 percent can earn overtime."

Clearly very few people here actually read this article to judge its reliability or accuracy.

If you don't understand a subject, maybe you shouldn't write a hand wringing, trump bashing article about it.

I don't know what's going on, even after reading the article because clearly this author has no idea what they are talking about.
 
2019-03-13 12:31:40 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: Well I never got overtime pay from obama so Trumps just making things fair.


You'd do yourself a service by committing this to memory....

goodmenproject.comView Full Size
 
2019-03-13 01:25:15 PM  

I sound fat: Manfred J. Hattan: TFA: With few exceptions, only workers who earn less than $23,000 a year can currently earn overtime pay under federal law. Overtime wages are defined as 50 percent extra hourly pay for employees who work more than 40 hours in a week.

Stopped reading there. Can someone find a less stupid article about this issue?

"Today, fewer than 7 percent can earn overtime."

Clearly very few people here actually read this article to judge its reliability or accuracy.

If you don't understand a subject, maybe you shouldn't write a hand wringing, trump bashing article about it.

I don't know what's going on, even after reading the article because clearly this author has no idea what they are talking about.


I pieced things together since this is of interest to my direct reports.  This below is all about the law; it is separate from what an employer may promise or an employee or union may successfully demand. And there are a few occupation-specific exceptions and small employer exceptions.

Basically, if someone makes less than X an employer may not deny overtime even if they somehow manage to slap a manager tag on the person.

If someone makes more than Y, then the employer may deny overtime to the person even if he or she is not a manager as long as the person is not engaged in manual labor.

Between X and Y there's a test that basically comes down to if a person is a manager or professional the employer may deny overtime. Regular wage slaves without managerial responsibilities are entitled to overtime.

Right now, X is $23,660 and Y is $100,000.  The Obama adminstation wanted to increase X to about $47,000 and Y to about $134,000.  A judge slapped them down.  They were appealing, but they were gonna lose -- a bunch of states joined the usual suspects in opposing it.

Trump comes in and says, OK, we'll abide by the ruling and not appeal as long as you say that *some* salary threshold can be part of the rule.  Judge says OK.

Now the Trump administration is saying X should increase to $35,000 instead of the $47,000 that got denied. And Y should increase to $147,000 instead of the $137,000 that got denied.

And that's it. That's the outrage.  On a scale from "looks like a radioactive raccoon" to "does Putin's bidding" this falls somewhere between "eats junk food" and "cheats at golf."
 
2019-03-13 01:28:48 PM  

roc6783: Best Princess Celestia: Well I never got overtime pay from obama so Trumps just making things fair.

You'd do yourself a service by committing this to memory....

[goodmenproject.com image 611x611]


Seems like committing to deluding oneself is a disservice.
 
2019-03-13 02:01:58 PM  
Like everything else in this administration, winners are corporations and shareholders. Losers are those who have to work for a living.
 
2019-03-13 04:16:55 PM  

roc6783: Best Princess Celestia: Well I never got overtime pay from obama so Trumps just making things fair.

You'd do yourself a service by committing this to memory....

[goodmenproject.com image 611x611]


Under FARKProg logic, the tall guy had to make all three boxes and only had enough wood for two...so the government came and set fire to all the wood.
 
2019-03-13 05:28:37 PM  

Cataholic: roc6783: Best Princess Celestia: Well I never got overtime pay from obama so Trumps just making things fair.

You'd do yourself a service by committing this to memory....

[goodmenproject.com image 611x611]

Under FARKProg logic, the tall guy had to make all three boxes and only had enough wood for two...so the government came and set fire to all the wood.


shoulda bought tickets then
 
2019-03-13 06:30:02 PM  

mrsleep: But Obama's decision to double the limit created quite an uproar. In brief, here's what followed: Powerful businesses groups freaked out. Then they joined 21 Republican-controlled states to sue the administration before the rule went into effect in 2016. The rule was put on hold during the legal dispute. A federal judge in Texas invalidated it in 2017, arguing that the Labor Department didn't have the authority to make such a drastic change.

YEAH fark TRUMP! Trying to find a middle ground that would please everyone.
We should continue to squeeze companies bottom lines as much as you can so when they pass on the costs to us, we can complain about how much everything costs!


Meanwhile more and more people get forced to work 40+ hour weeks without overtime, because the company made them a "manager", despite them working the same job.

Look into the robo-signing and "burger king kids" from the 2008 housing crisis for companies giving peons impressive sounding titles to circumvent laws.

/Work harder comrade, the shareholders are depending on you!
//After decades of working in tech, I believe overtime pay is a fundamental right. Working overtime w/o pay is too often abused
 
2019-03-13 08:36:57 PM  
But the libs were owned.
 
2019-03-13 10:04:59 PM  

mrsleep: But Obama's decision to double the limit created quite an uproar. In brief, here's what followed: Powerful businesses groups freaked out. Then they joined 21 Republican-controlled states to sue the administration before the rule went into effect in 2016. The rule was put on hold during the legal dispute. A federal judge in Texas invalidated it in 2017, arguing that the Labor Department didn't have the authority to make such a drastic change.

YEAH fark TRUMP! Trying to find a middle ground that would please everyone.
We should continue to squeeze companies bottom lines as much as you can so when they pass on the costs to us, we can complain about how much everything costs!


Costs keep going up anyway, but hey, at least the people producing the content/products aren't benefiting from it.
 
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