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(Some Guy)   Ummm, if you are planning on flying on a Boeing 737 X anytime soon, you might want to read this article. Ain't no way subby is getting on one until they get this figured out   (theaircurrent.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Boeing 787, Boeing 737, All Nippon Airways, Boeing Commercial Airplanes, United Airlines, electric trim override operation, Stall, new system  
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1307 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Mar 2019 at 5:31 AM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2019-03-11 10:35:06 PM  
It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.
 
2019-03-11 10:50:17 PM  

eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.


But my understanding is that Boeing did NOT push new training or simulator experiences for the Max edition. They did not update the manual.

That was the whole marketing gimmick for the Max, you didn't need to do anything new in training for it.

So the new system was not part of any new training regime.

In which case, bragging about how great US pilots are doesn't mean they knew shiat about the MCAS - and they seemingly did not until the Lion crash - and therefore did not necessarily know how to cope with it acting oddly based on any of their existing training.
 
2019-03-11 11:03:28 PM  

wejash: eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.

But my understanding is that Boeing did NOT push new training or simulator experiences for the Max edition. They did not update the manual.

That was the whole marketing gimmick for the Max, you didn't need to do anything new in training for it.

So the new system was not part of any new training regime.

In which case, bragging about how great US pilots are doesn't mean they knew shiat about the MCAS - and they seemingly did not until the Lion crash - and therefore did not necessarily know how to cope with it acting oddly based on any of their existing training.


I have flown regional African and eastern Europe airlines and getting on a US or western european based carrier is less likely to cause an issue. I still think the Russian pilots are allowed to drink in the cockpit.
 
2019-03-11 11:33:16 PM  
Capissen 38 engine?
 
2019-03-12 03:36:44 AM  
Sounds a lot like that quick fix they added to 727s to prevent stalls, except probably a lot more rushed and undocumented.
 
2019-03-12 05:47:14 AM  

eurotrader: wejash: eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.

But my understanding is that Boeing did NOT push new training or simulator experiences for the Max edition. They did not update the manual.

That was the whole marketing gimmick for the Max, you didn't need to do anything new in training for it.

So the new system was not part of any new training regime.

In which case, bragging about how great US pilots are doesn't mean they knew shiat about the MCAS - and they seemingly did not until the Lion crash - and therefore did not necessarily know how to cope with it acting oddly based on any of their existing training.

I have flown regional African and eastern Europe airlines and getting on a US or western european based carrier is less likely to cause an issue. I still think the Russian pilots are allowed to drink in the cockpit.


Russians, much like robots, run on alcohol.
 
2019-03-12 06:13:27 AM  

eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.


Training does nothing for you when it is an automated system that you don't have control over.
 
2019-03-12 06:24:34 AM  

cew-smoke: eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.

Training does nothing for you when it is an automated system that you don't have control over.


Doesn't help when Boeing deliberately withholds information from pilots, either.
link
 
2019-03-12 06:45:35 AM  

eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.


It's a DESIGN issue. The aircraft is unstable due to engine placement.

Piling electronic controls on top of it doesn't make it 'more' stable, it only reduces the number of times pilots will experience the inherent stall.
Failing to tell pilots about this system--with the bullshiat argument of "Inexperienced pilots can't figure it out" should push the FAA to ground this POS.
 
2019-03-12 06:58:12 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-12 07:03:53 AM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]


I love how Yahoo is trying to blame Boeing for the design problems of the DC-10
 
2019-03-12 07:16:46 AM  

OkieDookie: eurotrader: wejash: eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.

But my understanding is that Boeing did NOT push new training or simulator experiences for the Max edition. They did not update the manual.

That was the whole marketing gimmick for the Max, you didn't need to do anything new in training for it.

So the new system was not part of any new training regime.

In which case, bragging about how great US pilots are doesn't mean they knew shiat about the MCAS - and they seemingly did not until the Lion crash - and therefore did not necessarily know how to cope with it acting oddly based on any of their existing training.

I have flown regional African and eastern Europe airlines and getting on a US or western european based carrier is less likely to cause an issue. I still think the Russian pilots are allowed to drink in the cockpit.

Russians, much like robots, run on alcohol.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-03-12 07:24:01 AM  

wooden_badger: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

I love how Yahoo is trying to blame Boeing for the design problems of the DC-10


And the MD11 and the DC9 and... wait, maybe that graphic is just full of shiat.
 
2019-03-12 07:24:20 AM  

wooden_badger: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

I love how Yahoo is trying to blame Boeing for the design problems of the DC-10


those early days of commercial flying.....we were all guinea pigs.  crash and learn, crash and learn.  How many people died from that damn cargo door alone?
 
2019-03-12 07:42:09 AM  

eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.


Try rtfa. How can they be trained about something only Boeing knew existed?
 
2019-03-12 07:55:23 AM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]


How many flights globally are there per year does anyone know?
 
2019-03-12 07:56:16 AM  

WTFDYW: eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.

Try rtfa. How can they be trained about something only Boeing knew existed?


Especially when a Boeing selling point was that you didn't need to retrain your pilots.
 
2019-03-12 08:11:25 AM  

ltdanman44: Russians, much like robots, run on alcohol.

[img.fark.net image 480x360]


As a former flight instructor the poor OPSEC in that picture makes me laugh.
(That's a VT-6 Marine student, picture was taken in the summer before we switched to year-round greens again)
 
2019-03-12 08:28:03 AM  
While not flying on a 737 Max sounds great, toss in a side order of dump all boeing stock for about 5 months to maybe forever.

Looks like Boeing dropped the ball. And the reason most 737 pilots missed out on the secret pop quiz (pass / fail only) is because their runway was long enough that they would have a lesser angle of attack on take off.

/ Too early to officially brand Boeing as stoopidly liable.
// But the Iron is getting hot as I type.
 
2019-03-12 08:51:07 AM  

eurotrader: I still think the Russian pilots are allowed to drink in the cockpit.


Well yeah. Otherwise they go into DTs
 
2019-03-12 09:16:11 AM  

centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]


Concorde crashes once and the chart makes it look like it was raining Concordes
 
2019-03-12 09:17:21 AM  

Raider_dad: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

Concorde crashes once and the chart makes it look like it was raining Concordes


To be fair, the list doesn't include those deafened by those loud farkers.
 
2019-03-12 09:30:48 AM  

Gubbo: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

How many flights globally are there per year does anyone know?


GMA said 8,200 a week for the Max.
 
2019-03-12 09:43:50 AM  

wow just wow: Gubbo: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

How many flights globally are there per year does anyone know?

GMA said 8,200 a week for the Max.


I meant in total. Because those numbers actually seemed high for crashes per million flights
 
2019-03-12 10:27:00 AM  
FTFA:

"From my perspective as a Captain who flies the MAX, I observe that the engineers sitting in their chairs on the ground have done a marvelous job overwhelming 189 innocents with the engineers' arrogance and stupidity. If you've introduced a new system designed to exert authority over a primary flight control, well, that's a nice thing to know."

They're 100% correct.
 
2019-03-12 11:24:32 AM  

Znuh: FTFA:

"From my perspective as a Captain who flies the MAX, I observe that the engineers sitting in their chairs on the ground have done a marvelous job overwhelming 189 innocents with the engineers' arrogance and stupidity. If you've introduced a new system designed to exert authority over a primary flight control, well, that's a nice thing to know."

They're 100% correct.


Also, an "average" Captain of a vessel with 189 Souls aboard should not be "inundated with too much information" while FLYING THROUGH THE SKY, INCREDIBLY.
/average
//my arse
///A Professional Engineer signed off on this
////And is going to jail
//Boeing to jail, do not pass Go
 
2019-03-12 11:53:20 AM  

eurotrader: wejash: eurotrader: It is a training issue. US based commercial airlines pilots are actually well trained with simulators  on the multi million dollar plane they fly.

But my understanding is that Boeing did NOT push new training or simulator experiences for the Max edition. They did not update the manual.

That was the whole marketing gimmick for the Max, you didn't need to do anything new in training for it.

So the new system was not part of any new training regime.

In which case, bragging about how great US pilots are doesn't mean they knew shiat about the MCAS - and they seemingly did not until the Lion crash - and therefore did not necessarily know how to cope with it acting oddly based on any of their existing training.

I have flown regional African and eastern Europe airlines and getting on a US or western european based carrier is less likely to cause an issue. I still think the Russian pilots are allowed to drink in the cockpit.


It's always been the rule elsewhere "Eight hours from bottle to throttle".

My understanding of the Russian rules is "No drinking within eight meters of the aircraft"
 
2019-03-12 11:56:15 AM  

wooden_badger: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

I love how Yahoo is trying to blame Boeing for the design problems of the DC-10


I didn't notice that at first -nice catch.

The "Boeing DC-9" is on there too

/idiots
 
2019-03-12 12:12:42 PM  

Slide10000: wooden_badger: centrifugal bumblepuppy: [img.fark.net image 425x425]

I love how Yahoo is trying to blame Boeing for the design problems of the DC-10

I didn't notice that at first -nice catch.

The "Boeing DC-9" is on there too

/idiots


While McDonnell-Douglas merged with Boeing in 1997 (so officially it's Boeing), Boeing made design improvements to the DC-10 that improves its reliability.
 
2019-03-12 04:07:45 PM  
I don't get the FAA at all. If I fart in the wrong direction, FAA revokes my medical, but a plane appears to have some serious safety issues....wait and see?

Seems like the FAA will always gives Boeing, Lockheed et al. a pass, yet do everything to make life in general aviation difficult.

WTF!
 
2019-03-13 01:56:26 AM  

Frothy Panties: I don't get the FAA at all. If I fart in the wrong direction, FAA revokes my medical, but a plane appears to have some serious safety issues....wait and see?

Seems like the FAA will always gives Boeing, Lockheed et al. a pass, yet do everything to make life in general aviation difficult.

WTF!


It is not at all difficult to figure out. What kind of lucrative position or opportunity can you offer the regulators after they leave the FAA? It's not quid pro quo to give 6-figure positions to regulators who were friendly to you if you did not explicitly outline it in the first place. So long as it's merely an unofficial industry norm it's perfectly fine.
 
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