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(LA Times)   In the battle between the giant university system and the giant publishing company, I guess I'll go with the giant university system   (latimes.com) divider line
    More: News, Academic publishing, Open access, open access model, Publishing, logical system, Open access advocates, Elsevier subscriptions, Research  
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886 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Mar 2019 at 5:12 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



15 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2019-03-07 03:59:34 PM  
TL;DR version: The University of California system, which is responsible for 10% of all research in the US, wanted to make all its research public, and Elsevier, its publisher, who gets free articles to publish and makes over a billion a year off charging access to them, didn't want that. So U of C officially said f*ck off.

On a more editorial note, the research paper publishing industry appears to be a total scam and is costing taxpayers money and is probably contributing to the ridiculous cost of tuition.
 
2019-03-07 04:45:50 PM  
Lexis/Nexis is also owned by Reed Elsevier. Georgia has asserted that the "Official" version of the State law is subject to copyright, and so they can let Lexis/Nexis charge huge sums to get a copy. The 11th Circuit recently disagreed with that idea.
 
2019-03-07 05:20:43 PM  
I was hoping for a rebuke of textbook publishers. I've heard that it's even worse now with one time codes for attached online content.
 
2019-03-07 06:24:50 PM  
Reform of the publishing industry is long overdue.  If they are going to sell our work, we (as the researchers doing the work) need to get paid.

I am a little uneasy about the "pay to publish" model, but high impact peer reviewed journals can probably use their status to keep standards high.  PLOS seems to be doing a good job there.
 
2019-03-07 07:38:16 PM  
On one hand, they make a boatload of money publishing these things.  On the other hand, why should they do it for free?

Let the college establish their own publishing and pay for the infrastructure and maintenance.
 
2019-03-07 08:34:11 PM  
Elsever is utterly sleazy, but so are most academic publishers these days. They pay nothing for content and charge hundreds (sometimes thousands) of dollars to colleges for subscriptions. They have the college under a barrel -- people need the journals to keep up on their fields and it's been draining the money faster than putting an IV into wall suction.

I had a runin with a similar magazine years ago. They wanted to put an article from my web page in their magazine. Now I write professionally, so I asked what they would offer for payment and what rights they were buying. They said they couldn't afford to pay me.

They charged over $300 a year for subscription.  I ran a small magazine for several years with a $15 fee and we still were able to pay our contributors (nominal, but something).

And they wanted all rights. No author should sell all rights unless they're getting a hatful of money for it. I wrote back, saying there was no way I would give up all rights, and said I expected to be paid for licensing the work.  I was thinking a flat fee plus a small percentage of each reprint they sold ("how we make money," they said, as though you couldn't make money with $300 subscriptions).

They never got back to me.

Elsever is the same exploitative shiat, and I'm glad someone is standing up to them.
 
2019-03-08 06:25:22 AM  
New rule: academic books cannot cost more than the price of the paper and ink it print them + 3%

Textbooks cannot be given a new version unless there are signifigant changes to its content, at a fine of 400% of the books cost per book printed for violations
 
2019-03-08 06:45:39 AM  
NotThatGuyAgain: On one hand, they make a boatload of money publishing these things. On the other hand, why should they do it for free?

The Universities are paying to get articles published in those journals AND they are paying to read those same f*cking articles in the journals.
 
2019-03-08 08:07:36 AM  

lifeslammer: New rule: academic books cannot cost more than the price of the paper and ink it print them + 3%

Textbooks cannot be given a new version unless there are signifigant changes to its content, at a fine of 400% of the books cost per book printed for violations


who sets the price of the textbook?  the school* bookstore or the publishers?  

$0.10 per page

100 page book = $10.00, add 3% upcharge = $10.30;  each book is worth $0.30 profit to bookstore.

Bookstore Economics:
Min wage for someone to work the register at the bookstore: $9
The store would need to sell 30 books every hour just to pay one person to work the register.

Publishers:
265 million textbooks in the US;  3% upcharge = $7.98 million revenue.  Estimated cost of publishers = $17 million.  It looks like it would need to be higher than 3%

Not saying that textbook costs are not an issue, but capping them in such a manner might not be prudent.

We could go the gig economy route and just let anyone write an eTextbook for sale or free in an open-source market.

Textbooks under go a bit more of a vetting process than a Stephen King novel.

/have been paid as one editor among many other editors/content reviewers for just one textbook
//if you have a textbook on genomics, then you need people educated in genomics to edit and review it.  Not quite the same as just finding someone good at spotting grammar and spelling errors to review a novel.
///Open-Source textbooks are becoming a thing, just going to take a few more years to catch on
 
2019-03-08 08:11:42 AM  

Hyjamon: lifeslammer: New rule: academic books cannot cost more than the price of the paper and ink it print them + 3%

Textbooks cannot be given a new version unless there are signifigant changes to its content, at a fine of 400% of the books cost per book printed for violations

who sets the price of the textbook?  the school* bookstore or the publishers?  

$0.10 per page

100 page book = $10.00, add 3% upcharge = $10.30;  each book is worth $0.30 profit to bookstore.

Bookstore Economics:
Min wage for someone to work the register at the bookstore: $9
The store would need to sell 30 books every hour just to pay one person to work the register.

Publishers:
265 million textbooks in the US;  3% upcharge = $7.98 million revenue.  Estimated cost of publishers = $17 million.  It looks like it would need to be higher than 3%

Not saying that textbook costs are not an issue, but capping them in such a manner might not be prudent.

We could go the gig economy route and just let anyone write an eTextbook for sale or free in an open-source market.

Textbooks under go a bit more of a vetting process than a Stephen King novel.

/have been paid as one editor among many other editors/content reviewers for just one textbook
//if you have a textbook on genomics, then you need people educated in genomics to edit and review it.  Not quite the same as just finding someone good at spotting grammar and spelling errors to review a novel.
///Open-Source textbooks are becoming a thing, just going to take a few more years to catch on


scratch that, mis-typed 0.03 profit per book instead of 0.30 for the publishers, so 79 million revenue may be enough.

/never do math in public
 
2019-03-08 09:02:42 AM  

lennavan: NotThatGuyAgain: On one hand, they make a boatload of money publishing these things. On the other hand, why should they do it for free?

The Universities are paying to get articles published in those journals AND they are paying to read those same f*cking articles in the journals.


What's your point?

Publishing costs money.  There's a lot more to it than just printing and slapping documents up on a web page.
 
2019-03-08 10:23:02 AM  

lennavan: NotThatGuyAgain: On one hand, they make a boatload of money publishing these things. On the other hand, why should they do it for free?

The Universities are paying to get articles published in those journals AND they are paying to read those same f*cking articles in the journals.


And they are paying the professors who peer review articles in those same journals for free. The big research universities should really get together to create new, high prestige journals and let the legacy ones rot into irrelevance.
 
2019-03-08 10:32:04 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: lennavan: NotThatGuyAgain: On one hand, they make a boatload of money publishing these things. On the other hand, why should they do it for free?

The Universities are paying to get articles published in those journals AND they are paying to read those same f*cking articles in the journals.

What's your point?

Publishing costs money.  There's a lot more to it than just printing and slapping documents up on a web page.


Sure, there are costs beyond copying and pasting the paper, and a profit for a private entity is necessary otherwise they'd have no reason to continue the publication. But a 37% profit margin?  Over a billion dollars in profit on less than 4 billion in revenue?  That seems excessive, especially given that the raw material they are using is bought and paid for by others - often the same "others" that are paying for the right to read the paper.

A federal grant pays for the research, a state university provides the facility, the output is written by the professor who must publish it somewhere.  RELX publishes it, charges the people who funded and facilitated the research at a rate that provides a 37% profit. Profit after covering expenses, like the CEO's £20,000,000 compensation in 2014.

Publishing does cost money. This is getting farked. I'm not proposing price controls, by the way, just supporting the hand of the free market, where the producers and consumers are trying to get a better deal out of the middleman.
 
2019-03-08 04:49:15 PM  
Research papers, turned out by the use of PUBLIC FUNDING, should then the FOOOK be openly , at no cost, available to the public that already fooking paid for it.
And these for profit jag rag drips that lock away publicly funded knowledeg behind pay walls so high only the rich or large institutions with deep pockets have any access.

the, I will politely call human, that would do this. That would lock away knowledge form their own fellow citizens in a private for profit scheme when they already helped fund that knowledge being had in the fist place.

that's the kinda human i'd willingly keep a death penalty active for. They are willing, not to simplistically violently harm one of us, but were willingly to harm and keep held back our entire nation, our entire society, just for their personal greed.

All of us, we are all "sold out" by those a holes, that to me is just so soulless i can find no humanity in such a person to give any sympathy or empathy of any kind.

From my POV, the harm this cause to our society, is tantamount to a federal treason crime.
 
2019-03-08 08:02:18 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: lennavan: NotThatGuyAgain: On one hand, they make a boatload of money publishing these things. On the other hand, why should they do it for free?

The Universities are paying to get articles published in those journals AND they are paying to read those same f*cking articles in the journals.

What's your point?

Publishing costs money.  There's a lot more to it than just printing and slapping documents up on a web page.


It's like selling Steven King novels, profiting from the sales, AND charging Steven King $100,000 just to get the book printed, AND you don't pay him a f*cking cent.

How the f*ck are you not getting this.
 
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