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(Reuters)   Turns out that ISIS may actually be on the verge of defeat. For real this time. Seriously   (reuters.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Iraq, Syrian Democratic Forces, Spokesman Mustafa Bali, Euphrates, jihadist group, Fertile Crescent, Islamic State's last enclave, help of U.S. air strikes  
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4930 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2019 at 12:21 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2019-02-16 10:11:37 AM  
So long as the idiots in Washington think that ISIS is a band of people this will never end. When they accept that ISIS is a political and religious ideology, only then will progress be made.  So, never.
 
2019-02-16 10:22:30 AM  
Right. An idea has been killed. Sure. Done. Mission accomplished.
 
2019-02-16 10:25:01 AM  

stir22: So long as the idiots in Washington think that ISIS is a band of people this will never end. When they accept that ISIS is a political and religious ideology, only then will progress be made.  So, never.


As soon as they grasp it's an ideology they'll start pushing democratization and nation building which for many means pushing Christianity. We dropped the term Global War on Terrorism when we figured out it would never end but quickly relabel the fight as needed.
 
2019-02-16 10:35:29 AM  
Did Russia stop funding them? Has the ideology changed? No? Then they aren't going anywhere. They might go underground for a bit to regroup and even go by a different name, but it isn't going away.
 
2019-02-16 11:24:38 AM  
Strictly a JV team. Never a varsity athlete.
 
2019-02-16 11:41:26 AM  
Literally thousands of foreign fighters have returned to their respective homelands.

ISIS "territory" is almost retaken. There are still plenty of ideologically committed personnel.

We'll see more low-tech (e.g., truck attacks, stabbings) attacks in Europe and the Middle East occur with the perpetrator claiming allegiance to ISIS (or whatever it morphs into).
 
2019-02-16 12:23:09 PM  
Yes - ideas can be killed. That's why we never have problems with neo-nazis.
 
2019-02-16 12:28:03 PM  
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2019-02-16 12:28:59 PM  
Has Vlad cut off their allowance?
 
2019-02-16 12:35:37 PM  
Hahaha, yeah..................................​.....................no.
 
2019-02-16 12:37:01 PM  
Can we finally call it WasWas?
 
2019-02-16 12:46:05 PM  
Religious ideologies can't be killed. Right.

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2019-02-16 12:46:35 PM  

Red Shirt Blues: Strictly a JV team. Never a varsity athlete.


The UofCaliphate ISIS are dirty rotten cheats and the NCAA should blow up the whole program.
 
2019-02-16 12:48:47 PM  
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Sure, sure
 
2019-02-16 12:51:31 PM  
They'll rebrand and be back with a new name in a few months. If only someone would had warned GWB about the effects of creating a power vacuum in Iraq.
 
2019-02-16 12:58:45 PM  
The KKK doesn't have any territory, either. Have they been "defeated?" Oh sure, they're less dangerous than ISIS by a damn sight. And to the extent that that's true, it's because we treated the cause rather than the symptoms.

I mean, don't get me wrong, we did a PROFOUNDLY shiatty job of treating the cause of the KKK. But we did at least do something other than drop bombs on people who looked like they might be vaguely Klan-affiliated from 4,000 miles away.

Call me when ISIS is as dangerous as the Klan. Which, again, will still be far too farking dangerous, but at least it'll be a meaningful benchmark.
 
2019-02-16 01:09:02 PM  
I guess, in the same way Russia defeated the mujahideen, or Britain defeated the IRA, or France defeated the  FLA or all the insurgencies since time began.

The state can kill most of the terrorists, jail the rest, crush the revolt--but unless the underlying REASON for the insurgency is addressed, like it was in Algeria and wasn't in Afghanistan, the insurgency will eventually grow back.
 
2019-02-16 01:10:01 PM  
Like playing Wack-a-Mole. They will pop up someplace else, under new name.
 
2019-02-16 01:13:03 PM  

ltnor: Did Russia stop funding them? Has the ideology changed? No? Then they aren't going anywhere. They might go underground for a bit to regroup and even go by a different name, but it isn't going away.


How in the fark could you be stupid enough to think Russia is funding ISIS?

You know who's funding ISIS? Illegal oil
Smuggling (when they had a border with Turkey) and Rich Sunni Muslims making donations through Qatar:

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/u​p​loads/Documents/infographics/Islamic-S​tate-of-Iraq-and-al-Sham-ISIS-Funding.​pdf
 
2019-02-16 01:15:50 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2019-02-16 01:19:42 PM  

ColonelCathcart: ltnor: Did Russia stop funding them? Has the ideology changed? No? Then they aren't going anywhere. They might go underground for a bit to regroup and even go by a different name, but it isn't going away.

How in the fark could you be stupid enough to think Russia is funding ISIS?

You know who's funding ISIS? Illegal oil
Smuggling (when they had a border with Turkey) and Rich Sunni Muslims making donations through Qatar:

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/up​loads/Documents/infographics/Islamic-S​tate-of-Iraq-and-al-Sham-ISIS-Funding.​pdf


They hurt the West so yes, Russia is assisting them.
 
2019-02-16 01:20:52 PM  
Still won't matter.  These people have been fighting since BEFORE Christ!  It's all they know.
Even if they got 100% of what they wanted, they would STILL fight.  It's tribal, and always will
be unless you rid the entire planet of them, and, considering how they reproduce, that won't happen.
 
2019-02-16 01:23:18 PM  
They may kill 'Islamic Assholes but that just gives freedom to a whole bunch of freelance assassins.

As  Gyrfalcon says:The state can kill most of the terrorists, jail the rest, crush the revolt--but unless the underlying REASON for the insurgency is addressed, like it was in Algeria and wasn't in Afghanistan, the insurgency will eventually grow back.

/How do you kill a God..or two?
//the only real way to kill the religious wars that have plagued us since Deep in the BCE
///Start with the commandments...
 
2019-02-16 01:24:39 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: ColonelCathcart: ltnor: Did Russia stop funding them? Has the ideology changed? No? Then they aren't going anywhere. They might go underground for a bit to regroup and even go by a different name, but it isn't going away.

How in the fark could you be stupid enough to think Russia is funding ISIS?

You know who's funding ISIS? Illegal oil
Smuggling (when they had a border with Turkey) and Rich Sunni Muslims making donations through Qatar:

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/up​loads/Documents/infographics/Islamic-S​tate-of-Iraq-and-al-Sham-ISIS-Funding.​pdf

They hurt the West so yes, Russia is assisting them.


Citation needed.

Russia is happy having ISIS around in the Levant to test their weapons (and sell them to countries by showing their effectiveness).

Russia was happy that a shiat load of Chechens left to join ISIS (not our problem anymore).

Russia is happy that ISIS members are going home (except for the Chechens) to cause problems.

That is a far cry from supporting them financially or otherwise.
 
2019-02-16 01:25:29 PM  

ColonelCathcart: ltnor: Did Russia stop funding them? Has the ideology changed? No? Then they aren't going anywhere. They might go underground for a bit to regroup and even go by a different name, but it isn't going away.

How in the fark could you be stupid enough to think Russia is funding ISIS?

You know who's funding ISIS? Illegal oil
Smuggling (when they had a border with Turkey) and Rich Sunni Muslims making donations through Qatar:

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/up​loads/Documents/infographics/Islamic-S​tate-of-Iraq-and-al-Sham-ISIS-Funding.​pdf


This would be right up their alley. Fund the ones operating in and around Syria with weapons and supplies to help keep thing unstable.
 
2019-02-16 01:28:25 PM  
The reason we have involved ourselves in domestic wars in the middle east is to reduce terrorist attacks. How many times has ISIS attacked America in the last two years?
 
2019-02-16 01:31:56 PM  

ColonelCathcart: That is a far cry from supporting them financially or otherwise.


there's not much doubt that assad and putin used isis to taint all other syrians trying to move their country past assad
 
2019-02-16 01:36:07 PM  

angryjd: The reason we have involved ourselves in domestic wars in the middle east is to reduce terrorist attacks. How many times has ISIS attacked America in the last two years?


Have you looked at our Southern border? It's an emergency!
 
2019-02-16 01:37:30 PM  

21-7-b: ColonelCathcart: That is a far cry from supporting them financially or otherwise.

there's not much doubt that assad and putin used isis to taint all other syrians trying to move their country past assad


Al Nusra and ISIS did a great job wiping out the "moderate" Syrian opposition as much as Assad's bullets or Russian bombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter​-​rebel_conflict_during_the_Syrian_Civil​_War

Your hate for Russia blinds you.
 
2019-02-16 01:38:48 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: [img.fark.net image 300x168]


I feel like that show missed an opportunity to have a cold open with Mallory on the phone with someone and screaming something like "They did WHAT? They can't take our name! That's our name!"
 
2019-02-16 01:39:05 PM  

ColonelCathcart: Al Nusra and ISIS did a great job wiping out the "moderate" Syrian opposition as much as Assad's bullets or Russian bombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-​rebel_conflict_during_the_Syrian_Civil​_War

Your hate for Russia blinds you.


sorry, are you arguing that assad didn't use isis to taint other syrians trying to move their country past assad?
 
2019-02-16 01:43:20 PM  

21-7-b: ColonelCathcart: Al Nusra and ISIS did a great job wiping out the "moderate" Syrian opposition as much as Assad's bullets or Russian bombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-​rebel_conflict_during_the_Syrian_Civil​_War

Your hate for Russia blinds you.

sorry, are you arguing that assad didn't use isis to taint other syrians trying to move their country past assad?


I concede the point that ISIS (and Al-Nusra and Tahrir Al-Sham) we're used to paint the limited democratic opposition as terrorists, but that the actual terrorists were fighting them too.

The bad news is that by 2016 there was little, if any, non-Islamist opposition to Assad other than the Kurds. (Some of) The Kurds and Assad have been  playing nice and dividing the country among themselves and even share control of Qamishili and Aleppo.

My point is that the terrorists did a great job of self-funding and didn't need any help from Russia (other than allowing Chechens to leave the country to make it easier to note which were terrorists and to also fight them abroad and not at home).

Also, the Russians used Chechens to infiltrate ISIS as well.
 
2019-02-16 01:45:13 PM  

ltnor: Did Russia stop funding them? Has the ideology changed? No? Then they aren't going anywhere. They might go underground for a bit to regroup and even go by a different name, but it isn't going away.


Give the Russians some credit for intelligence. They've learned the hard way that funding Sunni extremists only turns around and bites them in the Caucasus.
 
2019-02-16 01:45:39 PM  

FarkOffAndEatShirts: Yes - ideas can be killed. That's why we never have problems with neo-nazis.


Sub in Nazis for Hitmen
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2019-02-16 01:50:15 PM  
I think we can all agree Mission Acomplished.
 
2019-02-16 01:51:42 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: They hurt the West so yes, Russia is assisting them.


21-7-b: sorry, are you arguing that assad didn't use isis to taint other syrians trying to move their country past assad?


I see the goalposts are being rapidly moved from "funded" to "assistnig" to

You're grasping at straws because you're unaware that Syria is not a 2-sided war.  Be quiet and sit on your hands. You're not qualified to comment on the situation.

Russia and Assad are fighting ISIS and US-backed groups.

Syria is such a melee that at one time the Pentagon was funding groups who were fighting CIA funded groups.
 
2019-02-16 01:52:15 PM  

Sin'sHero: Red Shirt Blues: Strictly a JV team. Never a varsity athlete.

The UofCaliphate ISIS are dirty rotten cheats and the NCAA should blow up the whole program.


Is it weird I like ISIS more than the NCAA?
 
2019-02-16 01:53:15 PM  

ColonelCathcart: I concede the point that ISIS (and Al-Nusra and Tahrir Al-Sham) we're used to paint the limited democratic opposition as terrorists, but that the actual terrorists were fighting them too.

The bad news is that by 2016 there was little, if any, non-Islamist opposition to Assad other than the Kurds. (Some of) The Kurds and Assad have been  playing nice and dividing the country among themselves and even share control of Qamishili and Aleppo.

My point is that the terrorists did a great job of self-funding and didn't need any help from Russia (other than allowing Chechens to leave the country to make it easier to note which were terrorists and to also fight them abroad and not at home).

Also, the Russians used Chechens to infiltrate ISIS as well.



from a chapter in the recently published and much lauded 'The Syrian Uprising':

Over the decades the Syrian regime manipulated ethnic and sectarian cleavages to maintain its rule ... At the same time, although discussions of sectarianism were totally banned from public debate, accusations of instigating sectarian tensions were part of a political discourse adopted by the regime to criminalize dissent and as part of its claim that only an authoritarian regime was capable of preserving the complex mosaic of Syrian society from sedition and sectarian chaos (Dibo 2014).

Bashar al-Asad's role in actually fomenting sectarianism in the early period of the Uprising was part of what Frederic C Hof (2013) called the regime's 'sectarian survival strategy.' It time to undermine the legitimacy of the popular Uprising by portraying the demonstrators as foreign-backed takfiris and terrorists and to raise the spectre of sectarian strife in order to present itself as the sole guarantor of Syria's national unity and social fabric.

Indeed, the articulation of the regime discourse passed through a number of distinct phases (Slyer 2012) ... etc ... etc ... etc ...

etc ...

The survival of the al-Asad regime largely depended on the credibility of its sectarian argument ... etc ... etc ... etc ...
 
2019-02-16 01:54:59 PM  
/it aimed to undermine the legitimacy

//p225
 
2019-02-16 01:55:32 PM  

21-7-b: ColonelCathcart: I concede the point that ISIS (and Al-Nusra and Tahrir Al-Sham) we're used to paint the limited democratic opposition as terrorists, but that the actual terrorists were fighting them too.

The bad news is that by 2016 there was little, if any, non-Islamist opposition to Assad other than the Kurds. (Some of) The Kurds and Assad have been  playing nice and dividing the country among themselves and even share control of Qamishili and Aleppo.

My point is that the terrorists did a great job of self-funding and didn't need any help from Russia (other than allowing Chechens to leave the country to make it easier to note which were terrorists and to also fight them abroad and not at home).

Also, the Russians used Chechens to infiltrate ISIS as well.


from a chapter in the recently published and much lauded 'The Syrian Uprising':

Over the decades the Syrian regime manipulated ethnic and sectarian cleavages to maintain its rule ... At the same time, although discussions of sectarianism were totally banned from public debate, accusations of instigating sectarian tensions were part of a political discourse adopted by the regime to criminalize dissent and as part of its claim that only an authoritarian regime was capable of preserving the complex mosaic of Syrian society from sedition and sectarian chaos (Dibo 2014).

Bashar al-Asad's role in actually fomenting sectarianism in the early period of the Uprising was part of what Frederic C Hof (2013) called the regime's 'sectarian survival strategy.' It time to undermine the legitimacy of the popular Uprising by portraying the demonstrators as foreign-backed takfiris and terrorists and to raise the spectre of sectarian strife in order to present itself as the sole guarantor of Syria's national unity and social fabric.

Indeed, the articulation of the regime discourse passed through a number of distinct phases (Slyer 2012) ... etc ... etc ... etc ...

etc ...

The survival of the al-Asad regime largely depended on the credibility of its sectarian argument ... etc ... etc ... etc ...


Assad replies, "I learned it from you, old chap and mon frer"

The British and French were doing the sectarian dividing of Syria long before it was cool:

https://www.mepc.org/troubles-syria-s​p​awned-french-divide-and-rule
 
2019-02-16 01:56:17 PM  
/and ... (Spyer 2012)

//autouncorrect, sorry
 
2019-02-16 01:56:50 PM  

stir22: So long as the idiots in Washington think that ISIS is a band of people this will never end. When they accept that ISIS is a political and religious ideology, only then will progress be made.  So, never.


Those idiots are Christians, so there is a flaw in the hope.
 
2019-02-16 01:57:31 PM  

ColonelCathcart: Assad replies, "I learned it from you, old chap and mon frer"

The British and French were doing the sectarian dividing of Syria long before it was cool:

https://www.mepc.org/troubles-syria-sp​awned-french-divide-and-rule


at least you tried to create a false narrative before going for the whataboutism this time.
 
2019-02-16 02:01:10 PM  

21-7-b: ColonelCathcart: Assad replies, "I learned it from you, old chap and mon frer"

The British and French were doing the sectarian dividing of Syria long before it was cool:

https://www.mepc.org/troubles-syria-sp​awned-french-divide-and-rule

at least you tried to create a false narrative before going for the whataboutism this time.


It's not whatabboutism if it literally sets the stage for the modern divisions within Syria.

But nice.

"False narrative" (internecine fighting among Syrians led to the destruction of the moderate opposition as much as Assad) and "whatabboutism" (The Brits and French exploited these divisions for generations).

Nothing I wrote is wrong. You're just mad that your side lost, and is continuing to lose everywhere it sticks it's nose.

Russia managed to defeat ISIS with minimal investment and even managed to turn it into arms sales that probably paid for the intervention.

Millions of Syrians are thankful. Get over it. Your terrorists lost
 
2019-02-16 02:01:38 PM  

jaytkay: I see the goalposts are being rapidly moved from "funded" to "assistnig" to


you're the one trying to move the goalposts, as the original quote I was responding to was 'that is a far cry from supporting them financially or otherwise.'

and we could also look at the movement of anti-american fighters through syria into iraq prior to the syrian uprising, if you want. - eg: michael weiss and hassan hassan, chapter 7, 'Assad's Proxy'
 
2019-02-16 02:03:15 PM  
Al Qaida = ISIS = whatever will come next

So no, we haven't stopped bad people from being bad.
 
2019-02-16 02:05:02 PM  

ColonelCathcart: It's not whatabboutism if it literally sets the stage for the modern divisions within Syria.

But nice.

"False narrative" (internecine fighting among Syrians led to the destruction of the moderate opposition as much as Assad) and "whatabboutism" (The Brits and French exploited these divisions for generations).

Nothing I wrote is wrong. You're just mad that your side lost, and is continuing to lose everywhere it sticks it's nose.

Russia managed to defeat ISIS with minimal investment and even managed to turn it into arms sales that probably paid for the intervention.

Millions of Syrians are thankful. Get over it. Your terrorists lost


whatbaoutism, from wiki, for you

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

the argument you were 'defending' was: 'That is a far cry from [russia] supporting them financially or otherwise.'

iow, classic whataboutism
 
2019-02-16 02:05:03 PM  

p51d007: Still won't matter.  These people have been fighting since BEFORE Christ!  It's all they know.
Even if they got 100% of what they wanted, they would STILL fight.  It's tribal, and always will
be unless you rid the entire planet of them, and, considering how they reproduce, that won't happen.


I'm not sure the Sumerians/Babylonians/Akkadians/Etc were bloodthirsty enough in comparison to their contemporaries to warrant that sort of anger.

Unless you're postulating some sort of..Time Travelling Muslim jihadist..

/Who had the keys to Obama's time machine last?
 
2019-02-16 02:05:46 PM  

21-7-b: ColonelCathcart: It's not whatabboutism if it literally sets the stage for the modern divisions within Syria.

But nice.

"False narrative" (internecine fighting among Syrians led to the destruction of the moderate opposition as much as Assad) and "whatabboutism" (The Brits and French exploited these divisions for generations).

Nothing I wrote is wrong. You're just mad that your side lost, and is continuing to lose everywhere it sticks it's nose.

Russia managed to defeat ISIS with minimal investment and even managed to turn it into arms sales that probably paid for the intervention.

Millions of Syrians are thankful. Get over it. Your terrorists lost

whatbaoutism, from wiki, for you

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

the argument you were 'defending' was: 'That is a far cry from [russia] supporting them financially or otherwise.'

iow, classic whataboutism


I like whataboutery. Sounds funnier
 
2019-02-16 02:07:38 PM  

ColonelCathcart: I like whataboutery. Sounds funnier


it's difficult for me to comment on that without knowing how thick your russian accent is
 
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