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(Boston Herald)   Bill James: The players matter as much to baseball as the beer vendor does. Boston Red Sox: Yeah, maybe now's not a good time, could you try again never?   ( bostonherald.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Major League Baseball, Red Sox, San Francisco Giants, Twitter, Baseball, players, Boston Red Sox, St. Louis Cardinals  
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829 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Nov 2018 at 9:23 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-11-09 09:20:47 AM  
"If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway
 
2018-11-09 09:23:18 AM  
As James later tweeted, "Twitter is inherently frustrating as a place to have a serious conversation."


well, at least you realize your problem
 
2018-11-09 09:42:55 AM  
He is not entirely wrong but if you cant keep your clamhole shut then there are far better ways to say something that nobody wants or needs to hear in the first place. True or not.
 
2018-11-09 09:43:48 AM  
Jesus Christ could you imagine baseball without beer vendors?
 
2018-11-09 09:49:08 AM  
"I never realized how boring this game actually was"
-- Homer Simpson, after alcohol ban in Springfield
 
2018-11-09 09:49:28 AM  
In my universe, Mr. James is spot-on correct. The GAME is much larger than any player, owner, coach, or beer vendor.  If that were not the case, there would be no continuity and ownership would not be holding cities hostage for taxpayers to pay the bill for billions of dollars worth of stadia. Again, IMHO.

Except for Danny Jackson & Jung-Ho Kang, of course. And Javier Baez. And Mike Trout. Eric Kratz. Jose Altuve. Ohtani-San. Wang Chen-chih. Roberto Clemente.
 
2018-11-09 10:00:00 AM  
Baseball is all about the homeruns and the strikeouts.

Sure, if you get rid of all the players of today, you'll get rid of the superstar hitters who are better at producing the former and the superstar pitchers who are better at producing the former.

But the replacement hitters would be facing lesser pitchers, and the replacement pitchers would be facing lesser hitters, so perhaps the rates would stay about the same?

Of course, the answer to this question is readily available if I were curious enough to go look at college / minor league statistics, but I'm not.  Maybe I'll look it up during the commercial break between the 6th and 7th inning next time I'm at a game.
 
2018-11-09 10:00:03 AM  
James has had a pretty questionable year on Twitter, IIRC.
 
2018-11-09 10:01:55 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Jesus Christ could you imagine baseball without beer vendors?


jesus would probably want to serve wine anyway
 
2018-11-09 10:04:56 AM  
Baseball is all about history and stats
 
2018-11-09 10:06:02 AM  
He is correct on some levels.

Any league/sport at any level is based on the talent level they can attract based on pay.   The "majors" in the U.S. get the best players in the world (for the 4 "main" league sports, obviously not MLS, because we don't pay as much as foreign teams) because they pay the most.  The rising costs of going to games and broadcasting games and player salaries are because of each side escalating up more than they would just based on simple overall societal inflation.

But, if every MLB player on a roster right now were not there tomorrow for whatever reason, the next best players would now be the "best players in the world", and they would get paid likely accordingly and the talent "level" at the top would still be roughly "equal" relative to each other around the league.  And you'd still root for your teams jersey.  That is the crux of James argument.

Obviously, the players and their union are going to be "offended" by that, but, that doesn't change the fact that it isn't true.
 
2018-11-09 10:21:42 AM  

dletter: But, if every MLB player on a roster right now were not there tomorrow for whatever reason, the next best players would now be the "best players in the world", and they would get paid likely accordingly and the talent "level" at the top would still be roughly "equal" relative to each other around the league.  And you'd still root for your teams jersey.  That is the crux of James argument.


His argument is that if MLB players ceased to exist tomorrow, you could simply call up AAA players and have the same game.

Except if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB.
 
2018-11-09 10:23:15 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway


People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.
 
2018-11-09 10:26:21 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway

People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.


If every player retired, you'd then have teams full of MUCH less talented players.  There's a reason nobody wants to see expansion teams play.  Because the play on the field (or court or rink) is garbage.
 
2018-11-09 10:36:13 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway

People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.


marlins park was real crowded this year

much less skilled play and people no one knows is a tough sell to any fans that isn't really into the game.  those people will stay, just as most did after the strike
 
2018-11-09 10:37:08 AM  

LL316: Dr Dreidel: Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway

People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.

If every player retired, you'd then have teams full of MUCH less talented players.  There's a reason nobody wants to see expansion teams play.  Because the play on the field (or court or rink) is garbage.


40 million people attended minor league games this year, more if you count AL Central games. People like going to baseball games. If the best 750 players were replaced overnight with the next best 750 players, people would still attend those games, and people would still watch on tv.

Expansion teams generally stink because they're compared to established teams. With a level playing field, games will still be competitive, maybe more so than they are now.
 
2018-11-09 10:40:49 AM  

LL316: Dr Dreidel: Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway

People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.

If every player retired, you'd then have teams full of MUCH less talented players.  There's a reason nobody wants to see expansion teams play.  Because the play on the field (or court or rink) is garbage.


The play on the field is garbage in relation to the teams they are playing.  If you took a AAA team and put them in the majors, they would be a hot mess.  That doesn't change the fact that your average fan could not tell the difference AAA talent and major league talent were they to watch teams of both levels play one another.  Of course most fans will tell you they could.  But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.
 
2018-11-09 10:40:50 AM  

mikaloyd: He is not entirely wrong but if you cant keep your clamhole shut then there are far better ways to say something that nobody wants or needs to hear in the first place. True or not.


"The game remains the same only the names change."  - Bob Seger

And you are right.  Some people just don't know when to not upset the delicate sensibilities of sensitive snowflakes.  And Twitter is a hell of a place to blow up your career.
 
2018-11-09 10:42:11 AM  

LL316: Dr Dreidel: Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway

People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.

If every player retired, you'd then have teams full of MUCH less talented players for the next 2-3 years. There's a reason nobody wants to see expansion teams play.  Because the play on the field (or court or rink) is garbage.


Fixed that for you to reflect Bill's point.
 
2018-11-09 10:43:29 AM  

This text is now purple: dletter: But, if every MLB player on a roster right now were not there tomorrow for whatever reason, the next best players would now be the "best players in the world", and they would get paid likely accordingly and the talent "level" at the top would still be roughly "equal" relative to each other around the league.  And you'd still root for your teams jersey.  That is the crux of James argument.

His argument is that if MLB players ceased to exist tomorrow, you could simply call up AAA players and have the same game.

Except if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB.


You're correct, except for the part where James allowed three years for it to level back out.....
 
2018-11-09 10:43:45 AM  

Trainspotr: 40 million people attended minor league games this year, more if you count AL Central games.


Ok, you win the thread.
 
2018-11-09 10:44:59 AM  

Maybe you should drive: LL316: Dr Dreidel: Dead for Tax Reasons: "If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever.

worked out well in '94/'95, right bill?  fans came right back, no problem...

'retire' isn't the same as 'strike/lockout' but a lot of people would give up on the game anyway

People gave up on the game because the circumstances of the strike/lockout soured them on the whole thing. If the players all coincidentally retired on the same day, there wouldn't be that sourness. Life would go on, even baseball life. (Also, how many months did it take MLB to get back to the average 92-94 attendance figures? Less than 3 years?)

Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.

If every player retired, you'd then have teams full of MUCH less talented players.  There's a reason nobody wants to see expansion teams play.  Because the play on the field (or court or rink) is garbage.

The play on the field is garbage in relation to the teams they are playing.  If you took a AAA team and put them in the majors, they would be a hot mess.  That doesn't change the fact that your average fan could not tell the difference AAA talent and major league talent were they to watch teams of both levels play one another.  Of course most fans will tell you they could.  But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.


And the talent on the field in early 1900s would not even be ranked as AA.  Yes, I went there.  I compared baseball of yesteryear to today.  But, that's Bill's point.  If you removed all the players, next man up.  Game would keep on moving.  Bill just made his point poorly.
 
2018-11-09 10:48:35 AM  
Bill James has been saying dumb shiat for a while now in a desperate bid to remain relevant
 
2018-11-09 10:49:03 AM  
Justin Verlander with Fark-like levels of reading comprehension:

"Wonder if the @RedSox win the World Series with a replacement player for @mookiebetts or @JDMartinez14 or @DAVIDprice24 or #Bogaerts or @JackieBradleyJr or #ChrisSale or @RickPorcello or @asben16 or #Devers or @kimbrel46 or........"
 
2018-11-09 10:49:09 AM  
Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.
 
2018-11-09 10:54:15 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.


What's it called for pitchers?
 
2018-11-09 11:05:17 AM  

Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?


Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.
 
2018-11-09 11:17:22 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.


After what the Red Sox did, the Ryan Madson Massacre, and the what the Brewers did, not to mention the Rays and A's, the whole starter/reliever paradigm is going to blur even worse than before. And the tactics split between 162 and playoffs is going to get even worse. You would think the better managers would circle a few division series a season and go full playoff mode (starters coming in from the bullpen, closers in the 7-8 innings for 6 outs, etc).
 
2018-11-09 11:19:12 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.


So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?
 
2018-11-09 11:22:51 AM  
Dead for Tax Reasons:

What he said   "  . . .  the game would go on; in three years

What you said:   worked out well in '94/'95

And you think you refuted his argument? Truth, you didn't.
 
2018-11-09 11:24:21 AM  
What a surprise that a guy like him thinks numbers are more important than people.
 
2018-11-09 11:25:58 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dead for Tax Reasons:

What he said   "  . . .  the game would go on; in three years

What you said:   worked out well in '94/'95

And you think you refuted his argument? Truth, you didn't.


James' problem is two-fold.  First, not many people understand what he actually said.  Second, there was no real reason for him to say what he said in the first place.
 
2018-11-09 11:27:35 AM  

Slow To Return: This text is now purple: dletter: But, if every MLB player on a roster right now were not there tomorrow for whatever reason, the next best players would now be the "best players in the world", and they would get paid likely accordingly and the talent "level" at the top would still be roughly "equal" relative to each other around the league.  And you'd still root for your teams jersey.  That is the crux of James argument.

His argument is that if MLB players ceased to exist tomorrow, you could simply call up AAA players and have the same game.

Except if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB.

You're correct, except for the part where James allowed three years for it to level back out.....


I'm not sure it would work.

AAA players are, on average, 3.5 years older than MLB rookies.

Six years is closer, I think. The average player plays for around six years, so the mean player will rotate out on around that time frame. Now, you lose all the banked star players who have longer careers.

What I'm really looking for is average WAR by career-season, but I can't find that.
 
2018-11-09 11:30:13 AM  

Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.

So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?


I was asked a question and answered it in the first sentence. I chose to expound on that answer as a form of conversation in the thread. You could have quit at the first sentence if it's too much for your farking brain to handle, dick.

For example:

Dick Gozinya: "Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards...."

img.fark.netView Full Size


See how easy that was? Now you can go on being smug at the kiddie table while the rest of the adults in the thread have a conversation.
 
2018-11-09 11:32:00 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.

So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?

I was asked a question and answered it in the first sentence. I chose to expound on that answer as a form of conversation in the thread. You could have quit at the first sentence if it's too much for your farking brain to handle, dick.

For example:

Dick Gozinya: "Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards...."

[img.fark.net image 215x234]

See how easy that was? Now you can go on being smug at the kiddie table while the rest of the adults in the thread have a conversation.


And your smug comment, "It's called the Mendoza Line" added soooo much to the conversation?  Got it, Mr. Gozinya.
 
2018-11-09 11:35:19 AM  
Also the Mendoza line was something Chris Berman came up w/, and like most of his oeuvre, should be banished from our collective memory. It was never that clever.
 
2018-11-09 11:36:13 AM  

Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.

So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?

I was asked a question and answered it in the first sentence. I chose to expound on that answer as a form of conversation in the thread. You could have quit at the first sentence if it's too much for your farking brain to handle, dick.

For example:

Dick Gozinya: "Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards...."

[img.fark.net image 215x234]

See how easy that was? Now you can go on being smug at the kiddie table while the rest of the adults in the thread have a conversation.

And your smug comment, "It's called the Mendoza Line" added soooo much to the conversation?  Got it, Mr. Gozinya.


There was absolutely no smug in my initial comment. I even linked the Wiki entry on it so people who may never have heard of it could read up on it themselves. How the fark is that smug?
 
2018-11-09 11:36:53 AM  

Trocadero: Also the Mendoza line was something Chris Berman came up w/, and like most of his oeuvre, should be banished from our collective memory. It was never that clever.



No. Not even close
 
2018-11-09 11:40:20 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.

So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?

I was asked a question and answered it in the first sentence. I chose to expound on that answer as a form of conversation in the thread. You could have quit at the first sentence if it's too much for your farking brain to handle, dick.

For example:

Dick Gozinya: "Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards...."

[img.fark.net image 215x234]

See how easy that was? Now you can go on being smug at the kiddie table while the rest of the adults in the thread have a conversation.

And your smug comment, "It's called the Mendoza Line" added soooo much to the conversation?  Got it, Mr. Gozinya.

There was absolutely no smug in my initial comment. I even linked the Wiki entry on it so people who may never have heard of it could read up on it themselves. How the fark is that smug?


I'm sorry, I'm a grumpy old man.  My reply should have read, "The Mendoza Line?  Gee, in all my years of following baseball, I've never heard of it.  Thanks for inviting me to big kids' table and pointing that out for me.  Oooh, and with a handy dandy link for more information!"

Please ignore all my previous posts and pretend that was my original reply.
 
2018-11-09 11:44:41 AM  
In a way, he's right.  The game would go on.  It might not be as good immediately but as time goes on the players will become better and equal to the current players.
 
2018-11-09 11:47:32 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Regardless, there are plenty of teams (or, I'm guessing at least 5) that have no players from 3 years ago, and yet people still root for the team.


That's why I never take the trolley to San Diego Padres games, choosing only sail into the nearby harbor on the ship of Theseus.
 
2018-11-09 11:55:21 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dead for Tax Reasons:

What he said   "  . . .  the game would go on; in three years

What you said:   worked out well in '94/'95

And you think you refuted his argument? Truth, you didn't.


and you really refuted my argument?   truth, you didn't
 
2018-11-09 12:02:46 PM  
As a life long Mariners fan, he is not wrong.  The Seattle Mariners are always replacing crappy players with other crappy players.  Without the beer and or beer vendors, why would Mariner fans even want to go?
 
2018-11-09 01:05:24 PM  
I work in tech. If I had a nickel every time I encountered "Guy Who Is Exceptional At Quantitative Analysis States A Poorly Worded Qualitative Opinion", I'd have been a billionaire already. And I'm still in my early 30s.
 
2018-11-09 01:11:18 PM  

Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.

So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?

I was asked a question and answered it in the first sentence. I chose to expound on that answer as a form of conversation in the thread. You could have quit at the first sentence if it's too much for your farking brain to handle, dick.

For example:

Dick Gozinya: "Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards...."

[img.fark.net image 215x234]

See how easy that was? Now you can go on being smug at the kiddie table while the rest of the adults in the thread have a conversation.

And your smug comment, "It's called the Mendoza Line" added soooo much to the conversation?  Got it, Mr. Gozinya.

There was absolutely no smug in my initial comment. I even linked the Wiki entry on it so people who may never have heard of it could read up on it themselves. How the fark is that smug?

I'm sorry, I'm a grumpy old man.  My reply should have read, "The Mendoza Line?  Gee, in all my years of following baseball, I've never heard of it.  Thanks for inviting me to big kids' table and pointing that out for me.  Oooh, and with a handy dandy link for more information!"


Ok, I'll play along:

You're still an asshole. You're not the only person to read replies to your post, which I quoted for the benefit of thread continuity. The "handy dandy link for more information" is there for everyone who reads the thread, not just you. If you're already aware of such linked information, I guess you can sleep better tonight knowing you're smarter than the average Farker. You don't have to be an asshole about it.

Asshole.

We cool then?
 
2018-11-09 01:37:11 PM  
FTFA: If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever. The players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are."

Dumbest thing I've read today.
 
2018-11-09 01:44:02 PM  

Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Slow To Return: Dick Gozinya: Maybe you should drive: ....But the reality is that the difference in talent between a AAA player and a major league player is pretty damn subtle.

Its called the Mendoza Line. One point above or below is the difference between a life in AAA and a life in MLB.

What's it called for pitchers?

Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards. ERA gets too high, you go to the bullpen. Blow too many saves in the bullpen and you get sent to minors/released. But what that threshold is, I don't know. Lots of shiatty relief pitchers still hanging around in MLB when they should have been sent packing because good relief pitching is hard to come by these days. Just look at this year's playoffs. The Red Sox used Chris Sale as a closer in the clinching game because even their bullpen sucks and can't be trusted.

So his post was just fine without your clarification, then?

I was asked a question and answered it in the first sentence. I chose to expound on that answer as a form of conversation in the thread. You could have quit at the first sentence if it's too much for your farking brain to handle, dick.

For example:

Dick Gozinya: "Don't know; pitchers are judged by different standards...."

[img.fark.net image 215x234]

See how easy that was? Now you can go on being smug at the kiddie table while the rest of the adults in the thread have a conversation.

And your smug comment, "It's called the Mendoza Line" added soooo much to the conversation?  Got it, Mr. Gozinya.

There was absolutely no smug in my initial comment. I even linked the Wiki entry on it so people who may never have heard of it could read up on it themselves. How the fark is that smug?

I'm sorry, I'm a grumpy old man.  My reply should have read, "The Mendoza Line?  Gee, in all my years of following baseball, I've never heard of it.  Thanks for inviting me to big kids' table and pointing that out for me.  Oooh, and with a handy dandy link for more information!"

Ok, I'll play along:

You're still an asshole. You're not the only person to read replies to your post, which I quoted for the benefit of thread continuity. The "handy dandy link for more information" is there for everyone who reads the thread, not just you. If you're already aware of such linked information, I guess you can sleep better tonight knowing you're smarter than the average Farker. You don't have to be an asshole about it.

Asshole.

We cool then?


Man you'd think someone with the handle "Dick Goes in ya" would have a slightly thicker skin.

Mendoza Line, indeed.
 
2018-11-09 01:48:53 PM  

This text is now purple: Slow To Return: This text is now purple: dletter: But, if every MLB player on a roster right now were not there tomorrow for whatever reason, the next best players would now be the "best players in the world", and they would get paid likely accordingly and the talent "level" at the top would still be roughly "equal" relative to each other around the league.  And you'd still root for your teams jersey.  That is the crux of James argument.

His argument is that if MLB players ceased to exist tomorrow, you could simply call up AAA players and have the same game.

Except if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB.

You're correct, except for the part where James allowed three years for it to level back out.....

I'm not sure it would work.

AAA players are, on average, 3.5 years older than MLB rookies.

Six years is closer, I think. The average player plays for around six years, so the mean player will rotate out on around that time frame. Now, you lose all the banked star players who have longer careers.

What I'm really looking for is average WAR by career-season, but I can't find that.


You are both IMO missing the point.

Your basis on "if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB" is based on the fact that the players RIGHT NOW in MLB are "the best".  If all of those players didn't exist?   The players that make up the bulk of AAA would be "the best", and thus playing in MLB... you wouldn't even know that there was this "fictional slate" of better players that are "supposed" to exist in MLB instead.  Who knows, maybe in another "universe" these guys are "AAA" and there is another "level" of even better players that are "really" the top level.

Just because players before "stars/celebrities" within MLB, doesn't mean that without them, a whole other group wouldn't be the "stars/celebrities" in MLB instead.  Which is his point... to an extent, as long as the talent is seen as "the best" in the sport (which is basically based on how the teams/leagues promote and model the rosters) then "it is".
 
2018-11-09 02:01:09 PM  

dletter: This text is now purple: Slow To Return: This text is now purple: dletter: But, if every MLB player on a roster right now were not there tomorrow for whatever reason, the next best players would now be the "best players in the world", and they would get paid likely accordingly and the talent "level" at the top would still be roughly "equal" relative to each other around the league.  And you'd still root for your teams jersey.  That is the crux of James argument.

His argument is that if MLB players ceased to exist tomorrow, you could simply call up AAA players and have the same game.

Except if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB.

You're correct, except for the part where James allowed three years for it to level back out.....

I'm not sure it would work.

AAA players are, on average, 3.5 years older than MLB rookies.

Six years is closer, I think. The average player plays for around six years, so the mean player will rotate out on around that time frame. Now, you lose all the banked star players who have longer careers.

What I'm really looking for is average WAR by career-season, but I can't find that.

You are both IMO missing the point.

Your basis on "if AAA were as good as MLB, they would already be in the MLB" is based on the fact that the players RIGHT NOW in MLB are "the best".  If all of those players didn't exist?   The players that make up the bulk of AAA would be "the best", and thus playing in MLB... you wouldn't even know that there was this "fictional slate" of better players that are "supposed" to exist in MLB instead.  Who knows, maybe in another "universe" these guys are "AAA" and there is another "level" of even better players that are "really" the top level.

Just because players before "stars/celebrities" within MLB, doesn't mean that without them, a whole other group wouldn't be the "stars/celebrities" in MLB instead.  Which is his point... to an extent, as long as the talent is seen as "the best" in the sport (which is ...


That's an interesting take on it, and of course true.  But (some of) the superstars of tomorrow (three years from now tomorrow...) ARE currently playing in AAA.  Therefore, the product of tomorrow (three years from now tomorrow), while degraded, would still have "today-level" superstars, just not as many.
 
2018-11-09 02:16:40 PM  

The Drawing Board: FTFA: If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever. The players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are."

Dumbest thing I've read today.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
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