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(CBS Baltimore)   Pro tip: when the police show up at your door at 5 in the morning and ask you to surrender your gun, don't point it at them   ( baltimore.cbslocal.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Anne Arundel County, Police, Arundel County Police, Law, Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, United States Constitution, Gary J. Willis, Constable  
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6124 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Nov 2018 at 11:28 AM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



206 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-11-08 09:19:25 AM  
What a farking surprise. Who could ever have known?
Is there, by chance, a threshold of power/wealth where this will not be applied?
I love surprises that are no surprise.
 
2018-11-08 09:45:55 AM  
The guy is no longer a danger to the public at least, he has no one to blame for his death except himself.
 
2018-11-08 09:53:52 AM  
Cold dead hands yadda yadda
 
2018-11-08 10:03:06 AM  
Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint
 
2018-11-08 10:19:21 AM  
Anne Arundel County Police confirmed the police-involved shooting happened in the 100 block of Linwood Avenue around 5:17 a.m.

Officials said Willis answered the door while holding a handgun.


Something tells me the cops are lying. SHOCKING!

TFA makes it sound like it was a friendly visit that went awry. If the cops are at your house at 5:17 in the AM, they aren't knocking.
 
2018-11-08 10:21:00 AM  
Civilized countries have a mental health system to deal with this.  The US sends in trained killers instead.

And he's dead.

Mission accomplished!
 
2018-11-08 10:23:39 AM  

PreMortem: Anne Arundel County Police confirmed the police-involved shooting happened in the 100 block of Linwood Avenue around 5:17 a.m.

Officials said Willis answered the door while holding a handgun.

Something tells me the cops are lying. SHOCKING!

TFA makes it sound like it was a friendly visit that went awry. If the cops are at your house at 5:17 in the AM, they aren't knocking.


According to police, two officers serving a new Extreme Risk Protective Order (Red Flag Law), a Maryland protective order to remove guns from a household, shot and killed the man listed on that order.
"Under the law, family, police, mental health professionals can all ask for the protective orders to remove weapons," said Sgt. Jacklyn David, with Anne Arundel County Police.

Sounds like someone thought that this guy posed a legitimate threat and should have his firearms removed. I'm guessing a family member called the police to say that he was not stable and shouldn't have a gun. So not a "friendly visit" by any means.
 
2018-11-08 11:19:50 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint


Yea, but I cannot in good faith award full points to the cops when he is cornered in the house and not running away.

BTW, have you ever tried shooting fish in a barrel? It ain't that easy. And it is kinda tough on the barrel.
 
2018-11-08 11:32:14 AM  
Sometimes problems just solve themselves.
 
2018-11-08 11:33:50 AM  

beerrun: Sounds like someone thought that this guy posed a legitimate threat


Seems as though that someone may have been right.
 
2018-11-08 11:35:18 AM  
I read the comments Ray!

By the way, he set the gun down beside the door to read the seizure order, realized it was not a legal search warrant and pick the gun back up to protect him self from illegal search and seizure without a warrant. By constitutional law he was attempting to legally protect himself, his home, and his rights under the Constitution. Amazing how the media does not report that little fact.

yes...i always grab my gun to protect myself from those deadly illegal search orders!
 
2018-11-08 11:35:51 AM  
There is a definite lesson there, with a mass shooting happening weekly, don't expect cops to have a sense of humor when you wave a gun in their face.
 
2018-11-08 11:36:56 AM  
And nothing of value was lost.
 
2018-11-08 11:37:18 AM  
It's been 25 years since I lived there but back then AA county were lying, corrupt and shamelessly racist. I wouldn't take them at their word on anything.
 
2018-11-08 11:39:49 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint


According to the gun nuts he never stopped being a responsible gun owner, and the police were illegally trying to violate his 2nd amendment rights so he was justified in shooting at the cops.
 
2018-11-08 11:39:51 AM  
I need to know his race in order to trust the polices word on this incident
 
2018-11-08 11:40:41 AM  
I'm sure this incident won't at all be used to foment the "They're coming to take our guns!" mania.
 
2018-11-08 11:42:12 AM  

rich_mitch: It's been 25 years since I lived there but back then AA county were lying, corrupt and shamelessly racist. I wouldn't take them at their word on anything.


AA county "cops," that is.
 
2018-11-08 11:42:24 AM  

swaniefrmreddeer: The guy is no longer a danger to the public at least, he has no one to blame for his death except himself.


Right.  Sounds like there was good reason to remove the firearm from the premises.  Better him than his wife, or the neighbor kid, or the UPS man, or someone trying to GOTV for a democrat.
 
2018-11-08 11:44:42 AM  
They pretty much murdered that man in his own home.
 
2018-11-08 11:45:31 AM  
Did the cops then proceed to take it from his cold dead hands?
 
2018-11-08 11:46:21 AM  
Sounds like the law is working as intended. He was dangerous, now he isn't.

In the absence of sensible gun control to prevent these types of encounters up front, this is the sort of high risk alternative you're left with.
 
2018-11-08 11:46:50 AM  
I will cry for the family member or friend who thought he posed a life-threatening risk to themselves and others; they just wanted him to turn in his gun and not present danger to the public. I will not cry for the dead man who decided to show the world that he indeed presented danger to the public and instigated a gunfight.
 
2018-11-08 11:47:18 AM  

koinbahd: I read the comments Ray!

By the way, he set the gun down beside the door to read the seizure order, realized it was not a legal search warrant and pick the gun back up to protect him self from illegal search and seizure without a warrant. By constitutional law he was attempting to legally protect himself, his home, and his rights under the Constitution. Amazing how the media does not report that little fact.

yes...i always grab my gun to protect myself from those deadly illegal search orders!


wrywingpolitics.comView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 11:48:55 AM  
Darwin approves.
 
2018-11-08 11:49:02 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Move over, Assistant Crack Whore, there's a new worst job in America: the guy assigned to take the guns away from people red-flagged as being too dangerous to have guns.

Wow.
 
2018-11-08 11:49:19 AM  

leehouse: Dr Dreidel: Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint

According to the gun nuts he never stopped being a responsible gun owner, and the police were illegally trying to violate his 2nd amendment rights so he was justified in shooting at the cops.


He should have just done what the cops asked but I'd expect nothing less from a common thug.
 
2018-11-08 11:49:33 AM  
Agreed just cause there were political buzzwords ex: cops, shooting, gun, and the mention of common sense laws being enforced does not make it a political issue.
 
2018-11-08 11:50:16 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 11:50:43 AM  

leehouse: Dr Dreidel: Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint

According to the gun nuts he never stopped being a responsible gun owner, and the police were illegally trying to violate his 2nd amendment rights so he was justified in shooting at the cops.


Every person who claims they need a gun to protect themselves from the government is an aspiring cop killer. They literally want to maintain the ability to kill law enforcement. It won't be the oppressive DMV clerks showing up at the door. It will be cops. So make sure you put a blue lives matter sticker on your guns so cops know you support them while gunning down their colleagues.
 
2018-11-08 11:51:19 AM  
Serious question:

If the guy presented such a danger that his firearms should be taken from him, isn't he also such a danger that he should not be left in society?

Isn't there ways to involuntarily commit someone? Wouldn't that be a better solution than just taking away his guns? Being free in society, he can still stalk, harass, build bombs, grab a knife, etc, etc.
 
2018-11-08 11:51:45 AM  

snocone: What a farking surprise. Who could ever have known?
Is there, by chance, a threshold of power/wealth where this will not be applied?
I love surprises that are no surprise.


Well, a Judge one county over from where this happened went down in an actual hail of gunfire in a similar incident.   On the police's behalf however, I should note that PTSD and Alzheimer's is a NASTY combination in a man who was a Vietnam vet and ex Green Beret
 
2018-11-08 11:52:37 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Civilized countries have a mental health system to deal with this.  The US sends in trained killers instead.

And he's dead.

Mission accomplished!


If it was a regular mental health intervention I'd agree, but they were there to confiscate a gun.  Mental health workers are a magic cure all.  The guy who shot all those people just down the thread had been evaluated recently.  They decided nothing was wrong with him.  

If you have a gun you are assuming extra risks and responsibilities.
 
2018-11-08 11:52:45 AM  

dwrash: They pretty much murdered that man in his own home.


So the police weren't standing their ground?

Tangential question; Are you the kind of libertarian who has both "blue lives matter" and "come and take it" bumperstickers on your econoline van?
 
2018-11-08 11:53:06 AM  
"Ok guys, we have a person that might be a danger to himself or others, how should we handle it?

How about we surprise him at 5:17am, wake his ass up, hope that he doesn't shoot anyone in the house, and then kill him?

Can we have the paperwork done before they stop selling McMuffins?

Sure.

Ok, it's go time."
 
2018-11-08 11:53:57 AM  
Here's an article with more detail.

His niece "attributed that visit by police to "family being family" but declined to elaborate."

Good rule of thumb: make real damn sure you want the police involved if you're going to involve the police.
 
2018-11-08 11:54:29 AM  
Some new training might be in order.  Let's bumrush the known crazy guy with a gun just doesn't seem like a winning strategy
 
2018-11-08 11:54:30 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint


It's interesting to me that this is being presented as a "new" law, I worked in MD's courts when the first DV protective order law was passed n the 90's and even back then the Ex parte restraining order has a box the judge could check to instruct the Sheriff to secure any weapons owned by the person they were serving it on.  Maybe the difference here is that there doesn't need to be apredicate incident of violence?
 
2018-11-08 11:55:22 AM  

fsufan: [img.fark.net image 640x368]


that's...that's the exact opposite of due process you gigantic moron.
 
2018-11-08 11:55:35 AM  
I wonder what the minimum bar is for triggering a red flag event.

"He looked at me funny! And I was ascared!!!"
 
2018-11-08 11:56:34 AM  

Hickory-smoked: dwrash: They pretty much murdered that man in his own home.

So the police weren't standing their ground?

Tangential question; Are you the kind of libertarian who has both "blue lives matter" and "come and take it" bumperstickers on your econoline van?


No... I don't even own any guns.    But sending armed police to anyone's house to remove a gun is a special kind of stupid and unnecessarily risky for the police officers.  They should have detained him after he left the house and then searched his house for the gun.  If a judge issued an order for the removal of the gun, i am sure he would issue a warrant for the police to enter his house and remove his weapons.

Stupid on so many levels.
 
2018-11-08 11:56:36 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 11:57:12 AM  

TheYeti: "Ok guys, we have a person that might be a danger to himself or others, how should we handle it?

How about we surprise him at 5:17am, wake his ass up, hope that he doesn't shoot anyone in the house, and then kill him?

Can we have the paperwork done before they stop selling McMuffins?

Sure.

Ok, it's go time."


Back When I had guys servng warrants for me (mostly DV stuff) they explained that early morning are ideal because people tend to be at their most compliant and docile thanks to their natural circadian rythym .
 
2018-11-08 11:57:54 AM  

Destructor: I wonder what the minimum bar is for triggering a red flag event.

"He looked at me funny! And I was ascared!!!"


I wonder that too. Apparently a family member instigated the red flag call.
 
2018-11-08 11:58:36 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Uh, he picked up a gun while talking to the cops, and fired it. Seems like this law worked as- well, not QUITE as intended, but this guy was definitely not the kind of levelheaded responsible person you want in control of firearms.

Tangential question: when, in this story, did lose his Responsible Gun Owner status? Was it when he answered the door holding a firearm? Was it when he picked it up while talking to the cops? Was it when he fired at them? Or was it when he did whatever he did to run into the Red Flag law (stalking, harassment, domestic violence, etc) in the first place?

// cops have killed many more people for much less
// at least this guy was holding an actual gun, not the waistband of his pants or a wallet or his phone or a plastic toy or (heaven forbid) a lit joint


A different article I read said "during the struggle the gun went off," which is quite a bit different.

Regardless, if a cop tells you to put your gun down you do it and leave it down if you want to live.  Of course, someone filed to have him red tagged so he proabably didn't think straight in the first place.
 
2018-11-08 11:59:00 AM  
That guy was a danger to everyone. They really ought to have taken away his gun.
 
2018-11-08 11:59:54 AM  

bainsguy: Destructor: I wonder what the minimum bar is for triggering a red flag event.

"He looked at me funny! And I was ascared!!!"

I wonder that too. Apparently a family member instigated the red flag call.


What does it consist of? Can anyone just claim anything? Merely hurl wild allegations is all it takes to make all the guns go away?

Neat! I know of at least one political party that can have a lot of fun with that.
 
2018-11-08 12:00:24 PM  

dwrash: They pretty much murdered that man in his own home.


You should join black lives matter. Police kill black people all the time on their own property all the time for much flimsier legal reasons.

Wait? What's that? You're a right wing apologist who regularly bashes black lives matter? Oh well then. Maybe if we held police accountable in these earlier extralegal murders of black people, then perhaps we could have placed a lead on their power before they killed somebody you actually gave a shiat about, like a violent white man who answers the police with a gun.
 
2018-11-08 12:01:16 PM  
thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 12:03:24 PM  

TheYeti: "Ok guys, we have a person that might be a danger to himself or others, how should we handle it?

How about we surprise him at 5:17am, wake his ass up, hope that he doesn't shoot anyone in the house, and then kill him?

Can we have the paperwork done before they stop selling McMuffins?

Sure.

Ok, it's go time."


never understood why they don't wait for the person to leave the residence, get them for some minor traffic violation, and detain them that way or wait until they get to their destination and are on foot. You have a warrant. You can go into the home later. Takes longer but safer for all those involved.
 
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