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(FOX6Now)   More fire departments charging crash cleanup fees after accidents - even if you were not at fault   ( fox6now.com) divider line
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4039 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Nov 2018 at 9:35 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-11-08 08:43:16 AM  
So what are our taxes for? How much to run into a burning home to save a child? Are pets extra? Who do you charge to drive your pretty trucks in the Veterans Day parade?

As I often post, it's not income taxes that are killing us, it's this shiat.
 
2018-11-08 08:56:56 AM  
Good.

Fire departments are socialism. The sooner we get rid of them, the sooner we'll all be truly free.
 
2018-11-08 09:15:15 AM  
hidden fees are so much better than paying taxes!
 
2018-11-08 09:37:43 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 09:38:03 AM  
That's why I drive a 1978 Ford Pinto that's not registered in my name. Accident? Walk away. Parking ticket? Walk away.
 
2018-11-08 09:38:15 AM  

edmo: So what are our taxes for?


If you're not a resident of the city, you're not paying taxes. That's the point of billing drivers who don't live there.
 
2018-11-08 09:39:03 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Fire departments are socialism. The sooner we get rid of them, the sooner we'll all be truly free.


https://politics.theonion.com/liberta​r​ian-reluctantly-calls-fire-department-​1819567309
 
2018-11-08 09:39:28 AM  

edmo: So what are our taxes for? How much to run into a burning home to save a child? Are pets extra? Who do you charge to drive your pretty trucks in the Veterans Day parade?

As I often post, it's not income taxes that are killing us, it's this shiat.


"Yeah, so we can run in and save your kids, but each one will cost you $100"
"Ummmmm two are twins. Can I get a discount"
"Nah, it's $100 per child"
"OK.....ummmm you can leave the ugly one up there"
 
2018-11-08 09:39:59 AM  
They tried this on me back in 2010.  My insurance told them to eat shiat.  First problem is that they sent it directly to me, which they aren't supposed to do.  It's supposed to be sent to insurance as part of the claim.  I guess they figured I didn't know any better and would just pay it.  They knew it wasn't a lawful charge and that my insurance would tell them so if it was sent to them as required.
 
2018-11-08 09:40:20 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Good.

Fire departments are socialism. The sooner we get rid of them, the sooner we'll all be truly free.


Won't it be awesome to watch that house burn down as the fire brigade patiently watches for it to spread to the neighbor who subscribes to fire service.  Rockin' it like it's 1799!
 
2018-11-08 09:40:26 AM  

Notabunny: That's why I drive a 1978 Ford Pinto that's not registered in my name. Accident? Walk away. Parking ticket? Walk away.


That you would walk away from an accident or a parking ticket is more likely to be why you drive a 1978 Ford Pinto.
 
2018-11-08 09:42:25 AM  
Oh, mighty Rome, how do we miss thee, mother city
 
2018-11-08 09:42:33 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Good.

Fire departments are socialism. The sooner we get rid of them, the sooner we'll all be truly free.


Hell, why are we still using publicly funded road?  It's socialism.  Get rid of 'em!
 
2018-11-08 09:42:36 AM  
Maybe vote Yes on the next mill levy for the FD?
 
2018-11-08 09:42:53 AM  
AloysiusSnuffleupagus:
Won't it be awesome to watch that house burn down as the fire brigade patiently watches for it to spread to the neighbor who subscribes to fire service.  Rockin' it like it's 1799!

Old News:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/ns​/​us_news-life/t/no-pay-no-spray-firefig​hters-let-home-burn/#.W-RLTZNKiUk
 
2018-11-08 09:44:04 AM  
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 09:44:29 AM  
Where I live, the tow truck company is responsible for cleanup.  The fire department leaves the scene when there are no more injuries or fires to take care of.  The CHP and tow company are left to make the road clean again.
 
2018-11-08 09:47:47 AM  
Had this, but several years ago. FD showed up at my house because some brush in my backyard had caught fire and was smoking.
I told them their services weren't needed and to have a great day. I didn't apologize as I didn't call them.
Two days later got a $2700 bill in the mail, from the FD. I called their number and it was literally a collections agency telling me they'd take me to court, to which I agreed.

Nothing ever happened. About a month later, the local indie newspaper ran a scathing article about how the FD had been pulling this stunt on people, without out city approval. The scathing part was that the city, when informed of the scam, tried to cover it up. End game, lotsa lawsuits and firings, and FD went back to being all cordial at least.
 
2018-11-08 09:48:29 AM  

JamesSirBensonMum: Where I live, the tow truck company is responsible for cleanup.  The fire department leaves the scene when there are no more injuries or fires to take care of.  The CHP and tow company are left to make the road clean again.


Same here. If I got a bill for getting run into I think my last brain cell blow out.
 
2018-11-08 09:48:34 AM  
Can I send them a bill for disposal of their unlawful bill?  For the exact same amount?
 
2018-11-08 09:49:35 AM  

Intoxoman: JamesSirBensonMum: Where I live, the tow truck company is responsible for cleanup.  The fire department leaves the scene when there are no more injuries or fires to take care of.  The CHP and tow company are left to make the road clean again.

Same here. If I got a bill for getting run into I think my last brain cell blow out.


"would blow out" sorry
 
2018-11-08 09:50:09 AM  

mrmopar5287: edmo: So what are our taxes for?

If you're not a resident of the city, you're not paying taxes. That's the point of billing drivers who don't live there.


I'm not a resident of that city and I pay a shiatload of taxes. If you happen to have an accident in my town they'll still hose down the blood for free.
 
2018-11-08 09:52:04 AM  

JamesSirBensonMum: Where I live, the tow truck company is responsible for cleanup.  The fire department leaves the scene when there are no more injuries or fires to take care of.  The CHP and tow company are left to make the road clean again.


Yup. The tow company is responsible for picking up the damaged vehicle. Bring a broom for the little bits. Charge the insurance company (they will pay it).

If the car parts are blocking the flow of traffic, then the FD often will sweep them over towards the damaged vehicles to allow traffic to pass through. That's the public service aspect.
 
2018-11-08 09:53:50 AM  
I once saw our local firefighters pull up to a fire at the gas canopy for a car wash, and proceed to use water hoses on it. They spread the fire to the entire canopy and almost burned down the main building as well.

Brave professionals, but not too bright.
 
Ant
2018-11-08 09:54:13 AM  
So if you're in a vehicle accident and it's not your fault and you get a bill, you can submit that bill to the at-fault party's insurance company," Pooler advised.

People who are not at fault shouldn't even have to do that. What'd happen if he didn't pay at all?
 
2018-11-08 10:02:57 AM  
There is a few BASIC things a city should be responsible for. Police, Fire, water & sewer, streets, and Schools. All else is suplusage that the city takes on by request of the citizenry (which means they shouldn't biatch about it). Don't like your taxes, quit expecting the city to handle your personal problems.

/Yes, the city should HELP you solve your problems....BUT
// and schools should be a city problem, With state certification.
/// My town had the streets repaved thru a LID... and doesn't fix potholes.
 
2018-11-08 10:04:06 AM  

Ant: So if you're in a vehicle accident and it's not your fault and you get a bill, you can submit that bill to the at-fault party's insurance company," Pooler advised.

People who are not at fault shouldn't even have to do that. What'd happen if he didn't pay at all?


I think I'd just reply with "The at-fault party's insurance company is such and such. I suggest you stick your hand in their pocket. Good luck, and have a nice life."
 
2018-11-08 10:06:56 AM  
A lot of people will just pay this when they get the invoice.
I am not one of those people.
 
2018-11-08 10:07:40 AM  

Mikeyworld: There is a few BASIC things a city should be responsible for. Police, Fire, water & sewer, streets, and Schools. .


I am continuously shocked by how de-prioritized fire protection is.  A big part of this great land relies on volunteers.
 
2018-11-08 10:10:08 AM  
Sounds like these guys are using the medical billers playbook.  See also "balance bills"
 
2018-11-08 10:10:10 AM  

steklo: [img.fark.net image 500x332]


Ha! My local fire department parked one of its trucks too close to a fire and burned the side off of it.  Got it fixed for $200,000, and promptly went out and burned the side off of it again.
 
2018-11-08 10:11:58 AM  

mrmopar5287: edmo: So what are our taxes for?

If you're not a resident of the city, you're not paying taxes. That's the point of billing drivers who don't live there.


So they can assure me that they receive absolutely no funding or support from any county, state or federal source correct?
 
2018-11-08 10:13:42 AM  
If the accident isn't my fault, if I'm not the one getting a traffic ticket, then there's no way I would pay that bill.
 
2018-11-08 10:16:56 AM  
Their calendar sales aren't doing to well..
 
2018-11-08 10:18:21 AM  

edmo: So what are our taxes for? How much to run into a burning home to save a child? Are pets extra? Who do you charge to drive your pretty trucks in the Veterans Day parade?

As I often post, it's not income taxes that are killing us, it's this shiat.


We received one of these $500 bills after an uninsured NH handyman rear ended us while texting.  The bill came from a debt collection agency with the name of our town and "Fire Department" on the letterhead to fisguise the real company.  It turns out there is a company in Detroit that manages these claims for my town.
We were plaintiffs in the case with our insurance company, but unsurprisingly the handy man rented a cheap apartment, had no assets, and walked away from his POS rusted van.  He didn't even bother to show up in court.  So the town and insurance companies end up eating the costs.  This and the massive inflation of health and dental means local governments need tax revenue to increase substantially every year to provide the same services.  Expect more pay to play fees, increasing property taxes (including the baked in cost to rent), and electronic tolls on major roads.
/who knew single payer and taxing the wealthy were important?
 
2018-11-08 10:22:17 AM  

mrmopar5287: edmo: So what are our taxes for?

If you're not a resident of the city, you're not paying taxes. That's the point of billing drivers who don't live there.


Reciprocity is the issue. Our fire department takes care of non-residents so that us citizens get equal treatment elsewhere. One hand wipes the other, so to speak. If we let fire departments do this, then we can expect this to be applied to us, at the worst time. sQuid pro quo.

/I had to look up those lawyerisms.
//I blame insurance. They're in cahoots with the repair industry.
///
 
2018-11-08 10:23:00 AM  
Tax cuts for private jets and golf courses don't pay for themselves.
 
2018-11-08 10:26:19 AM  
Yep. California Highway Patrol billed me $750 for picking up my bumper and sweeping up glass.
 
2018-11-08 10:32:16 AM  

JamesSirBensonMum: AloysiusSnuffleupagus:
Won't it be awesome to watch that house burn down as the fire brigade patiently watches for it to spread to the neighbor who subscribes to fire service.  Rockin' it like it's 1799!

Old News:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/ns/​us_news-life/t/no-pay-no-spray-firefig​hters-let-home-burn/#.W-RLTZNKiUk


I remember that one.  Guy lives in an untaxed and unserved part of the county because "muh freedom!"  Neighboring town says "Hey, we offer support and coverage" and guy tells them to piss off.  Suddenly his idiot kid sets the house on fire and he goes from libertarian master of his own destiny to begging for socialism, and gets laughed at.

Shadenfreude in action.
 
2018-11-08 10:37:02 AM  

AloysiusSnuffleupagus: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Good.

Fire departments are socialism. The sooner we get rid of them, the sooner we'll all be truly free.

Won't it be awesome to watch that house burn down as the fire brigade patiently watches for it to spread to the neighbor who subscribes to fire service.  Rockin' it like it's 1799!


sadly, i watched that exact scenario happen on christmas eve in 1979. the fire dept would not come b/c the owner did not pay the $75 fire fee.  I had never heard of such a thing up to that point. Total loss for the owner.
 
2018-11-08 11:01:11 AM  

IvanTheSilent: JamesSirBensonMum: AloysiusSnuffleupagus:
Won't it be awesome to watch that house burn down as the fire brigade patiently watches for it to spread to the neighbor who subscribes to fire service.  Rockin' it like it's 1799!

Old News:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/ns/​us_news-life/t/no-pay-no-spray-firefig​hters-let-home-burn/#.W-RLTZNKiUk

I remember that one.  Guy lives in an untaxed and unserved part of the county because "muh freedom!"  Neighboring town says "Hey, we offer support and coverage" and guy tells them to piss off.  Suddenly his idiot kid sets the house on fire and he goes from libertarian master of his own destiny to begging for socialism, and gets laughed at.

Shadenfreude in action.


Twice.  His house caught fire and the fire department took pity and put it out anyway.  They reminded him that he really needs to pay his fire bill in the future.
He continued to not pay it, and let his house caught on fire again.  The fire brigade wasn't as kind the second time.
 
2018-11-08 11:07:48 AM  
Lots of ways to play this to make it come out negative for them:

Just keep asking about the bill, in writing.  Why did I get this?  Please explain this law to me.  Please provide an itemization of the bill.  Please provide the names of all the personnel who worked on the cleanup.  Please provide documentation of their training, qualifications and certifications to perform this type of work.

Or, you could just go down to the fire station, pick up some trash and send them a bill for $1000.
Well, we didn't agree to this and no one asked you clean this up!
Exactly!
 
2018-11-08 11:08:43 AM  
I did 10 years on a small rural volunteer department.  Our (local tax funded) budget was about $10k a year.  This, for  a department that had 18 volunteers and 4 or 5 trucks.  We got the occasional federal grant for matching funds to buy a new engine (~$200k) once every 14 years.  The balance of payments on that came from our budget or from fundraising and donations from the community.  It's a tough business.

We were debating billing at the time, because we had to offset the real costs of the call.  Hazmat containment materials get used up.  So does foam, which is what your're *supposed* to use on a car fire instead of water.  I could go on - the cost of consumables is death by a thousand paper cuts for a small department.

So those material expenditures were, legally, the result of someone's negligence.  That someone is the party responsible for the accident.   We wouldn't dream of billing for a true accident, but some folks would if they thought an insurance company would pay.

The fire department is not law enforcement, and not a party to the civil court system.  So in our shoes, if we billed the involved parties, the insurance companies were to sort out who was responsible.

It sucks, but if it's what needs to be done to maintain emergency services, it's the lesser of two evils. Or, you know, fund the department to cover its actual operating costs.
 
2018-11-08 11:25:33 AM  

debug: They tried this on me back in 2010.  My insurance told them to eat shiat.  First problem is that they sent it directly to me, which they aren't supposed to do.  It's supposed to be sent to insurance as part of the claim.  I guess they figured I didn't know any better and would just pay it.  They knew it wasn't a lawful charge and that my insurance would tell them so if it was sent to them as required.


My buddy had this happen, laugh of laughs, in West Allis.

Same kind of situation, in his case some bint was yakking on her cell phone and smashed up the back of car a little. The department sends him a bill, and he doesn't live terribly far away so he drove to the town for a chat. He handed them them an itemized bill, along with a letter from his lawyer, his direct bill (he charges $300/hr as a consultant) for 2 hours. When he was asked what he thought he was doing, he told them they filed the bill wrong requiring him to drive to his lawyer's office and pay for that letter to protect his credit, followed by him driving to their office, because they sent the bill 1) to the person not the insurance company listed in the police report and, 2) he had to do all this during "office hours" costing him billable hours. Some clerk stammered for a minute, he politely interrupted her and said he didn't have time for this as he only allotted 2 hours total, and politely told her to tell the fire department to go pound sand. He also said his lawyer would file a case according to the terms of the bill if they didn't pay, but that they could call the lawyer to dispute the bill.

I don't think they ever paid, but that bill disappeared almost immediately. He got a "correction" notice in the mail two days later: balance due $0.
 
2018-11-08 11:35:15 AM  
Tow truck companies are responsible for cleanup where I live.  It's billed to each driver and the insurance companies take care of who's responsible for payment.  I'm having a hard time understanding the outrage, it's not the fire department's responsibility to investigate and determine which driver is at fault in order to send the bill.
 
2018-11-08 11:36:43 AM  
Wouldn't your insurance cover that?
 
WGJ [TotalFark]
2018-11-08 11:45:32 AM  
"We don't look at the cause of the accident. We just bill anybody involved who is not a resident of the city," explained Mason Pooler, West Allis Fire Chief.

The new version of a local speed trap. Send a local yokel to tap into somebody's rear bumper and profit.
 
2018-11-08 11:48:04 AM  
Ah America, were you get all the justice, healthcare, and 'civil service' you can afford. Just make sure you have your credit card in hand when they show up and no personal checks please!

media.nbcchicago.comView Full Size
 
2018-11-08 11:58:11 AM  
When I was a firefighter my truck caught on fire The station I worked out of billed me for their response of one enigine and one BLS rig.

/fire was out when they got there
//they did hose off the extinguisher residue with the engine's booster line
 
2018-11-08 12:13:01 PM  

Barry McCockner: That you would walk away from an accident or a parking ticket is more likely to be why you drive a 1978 Ford Pinto.


That he (or she) drives a 78 Pinto, is why he or she will be more unlikely to walk away from a accident.
 
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