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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   Has 'stand your ground' made Florida more tolerant of deadly force? Short answer: yes. Long answer is currently dodging gunfire and unable to respond   ( tampabay.com) divider line
    More: Florida, Ted Bundy, store owner, Lakeland store owner, State's Attorney, Law, The Stand, Common Ground, Stephen King  
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2558 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Nov 2018 at 2:35 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-11-02 02:04:58 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

/ducks
 
2018-11-02 02:21:22 PM  
If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.
 
2018-11-02 02:25:19 PM  
Tolerance of deadly force as deployed by non-white people or at non-white people?

/whoamikidding
 
2018-11-02 02:40:19 PM  
How the SYG laws in FL are interpreted remains scary. Too many people believe SYG gives them the right to settle any disagreement and/or confrontation with deadly force, period.
 
2018-11-02 02:44:06 PM  
Is this the thread where we use cases in which stand your ground wasn't applied to complain about the stand your ground law?

Oh, that's every SYG thread?

Okay, later.
 
2018-11-02 02:47:34 PM  
Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?
 
2018-11-02 02:48:48 PM  

Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?


Ima stand mah ground!
 
2018-11-02 02:49:06 PM  

champu: Is this the thread where we use cases in which stand your ground wasn't applied to complain about the stand your ground law?

Oh, that's every SYG thread?

Okay, later.


Drink!
 
2018-11-02 02:50:38 PM  

Dimensio: If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.


More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."
 
2018-11-02 02:51:24 PM  
They have started charging people saying it's standing their ground when it's manslaughter. Usually thanks to video and public attention.
 
2018-11-02 02:51:27 PM  

champu: Is this the thread where we use cases in which stand your ground wasn't applied to complain about the stand your ground law?

Oh, that's every SYG thread?

Okay, later.


It's all an excuse for xenophobic pant-soakers to kill minorities because different skin colors are "scary".

Who gives a fark what standard they're applying?  It's window dressing to justify panic.
 
2018-11-02 02:51:52 PM  
Bad law relies on bullshiat premise.  You never had to retreat.  It was simply that under a "reasonable force" standard, if walking away from a potentially violent encounter was an option, your decision-making and intent could be questioned if you had that option easily and safely available to you and you chose not to exercise it.  In the "someone is invading my home" or "someone is attacking me" scenarios that dishonest politicians throw out there, it is very reasonable to not retreat especially if there are others in the home, as you may well expose yourself or others to more danger by doing so.  It's more the "someone spit on me so I shot them" type of scenario where force is wildly disproportionate and clearly the shooter had other options but chose not to use them - that's where the normal legal standard allows police and prosecutors and juries to determine if they believe the force was necessary and reasonable.  "stand your ground" bullshiat makes it waaaay too hard to accurately and appropriately charge murderous instigators.
Plus it doesn't help that the cops are taking a "fark you - you want it, you got it" stance on the issue that they fought against.  They over-state how helpless they are, but they're pissed at the community for supporting it and are taking it out against the community.
 
2018-11-02 02:52:15 PM  

Alien Robot: More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."


Aww, the alien robot doesn't understand the concept of "rates".  That's cute.  Run along and play in the mud.
 
2018-11-02 02:53:02 PM  

Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?


Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.
 
2018-11-02 02:54:36 PM  

Alien Robot: Dimensio: If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.

More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."


"Compared with white men, the researchers found that black men experienced 27 more firearm homicides per 100,000 people annually nationwide (29.12 for black men vs. 2.1 for white men). The states with the highest rates of firearm homicide among black men in the data -- namely Missouri, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana -- also had the largest disparities between blacks and whites, the researchers found."

So, calling BS on your BS claim.
 
2018-11-02 02:55:10 PM  
I had a mentally- and drug-troubled guy break into our building twice recently. He has a connection to the landlord, so he says he's entitled to occupy the vacant apartment. The cops came and both times he dashed out the back way. I texted him to tell him the police and neighbors were on alert, and he should stay out of the neighborhood. He threatened me, saying never call the cops on him again.

For about 1/10th second I thought about keeping a loaded gun handy.

In that time, through my mind went the thought of all trouble I would go through if I killed him, or worse, if the jackoff got the gun and went on to shoot me or somebody  else.

Instead, I'm keeping pepper spray and a tire iron handy. If he returns I'm letting him stay until I come back with police to cover all the exits.
 
2018-11-02 02:57:07 PM  

Alien Robot: More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."


Whites commit most crimes in the United States. How many people vote based on their fear of white criminals? How much hysteria is there from Fox, AM radio and the president about white crime?
 
2018-11-02 02:58:43 PM  

phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.


Depends...are they wearing hoodies?
 
2018-11-02 02:59:18 PM  
"I stood my ground" is the white guy version of "biatch set me up".
 
2018-11-02 03:11:48 PM  

phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.


If there is a reasonable fear for the safety of yourself or others you are covered under self-defense. If there is not, you shouldn't be killing people. That is why these laws aren't needed.
 
2018-11-02 03:13:10 PM  

bborchar: Alien Robot: Dimensio: If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.

More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."

"Compared with white men, the researchers found that black men experienced 27 more firearm homicides per 100,000 people annually nationwide (29.12 for black men vs. 2.1 for white men). The states with the highest rates of firearm homicide among black men in the data -- namely Missouri, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana -- also had the largest disparities between blacks and whites, the researchers found."

So, calling BS on your BS claim.


Interestingly enough, the same aggregator of the national crime statistics (FBI) shows that most black folks are killed by black folks, and most white folks are killed by white folks. However many of the sources that contribute the data do not separate by ethnicity (just race), so 'white' often includes 'Hispanic' as indicated in the little footnotes. Just FYI about these statistics.
 
2018-11-02 03:14:32 PM  

champu: Is this the thread where we use cases in which stand your ground wasn't applied to complain about the stand your ground law?

Oh, that's every SYG thread?

Okay, later.


Juries are made up of average people, who have likely heard of SYG, but don't fully understand the technical legal aspects of what the prosecutor or judge is instructing them to do.  You have a store owner pointing a gun at a shoplifter with a hatchet.  In our safe spaces we imagine that the store owner should have let the guy go, called the police, and handed over the video evidence.  In another scenario, the armed robber would have dropped the hatchet and run away.  However both individuals decided to escalate the situation, resulting in the death of the shoplifter.  So is that jury going to convict the store owner?  In Florida?  I doubt it but I could be wrong.
 
2018-11-02 03:16:30 PM  
If you jump out of your truck and scream at me that you have a pistol and are going to kill me, yeah your clock just ran out.
 
2018-11-02 03:24:57 PM  

phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.


Do you have a small dick? Needed data to answer your question.

You post is a bit pathetic, as I was only talking about the cases in this article.
 
2018-11-02 03:26:15 PM  

cefm: Bad law relies on bullshiat premise.  You never had to retreat.  It was simply that under a "reasonable force" standard, if walking away from a potentially violent encounter was an option, your decision-making and intent could be questioned if you had that option easily and safely available to you and you chose not to exercise it.  In the "someone is invading my home" or "someone is attacking me" scenarios that dishonest politicians throw out there, it is very reasonable to not retreat especially if there are others in the home, as you may well expose yourself or others to more danger by doing so.  It's more the "someone spit on me so I shot them" type of scenario where force is wildly disproportionate and clearly the shooter had other options but chose not to use them - that's where the normal legal standard allows police and prosecutors and juries to determine if they believe the force was necessary and reasonable.  "stand your ground" bullshiat makes it waaaay too hard to accurately and appropriately charge murderous instigators.
Plus it doesn't help that the cops are taking a "fark you - you want it, you got it" stance on the issue that they fought against.  They over-state how helpless they are, but they're pissed at the community for supporting it and are taking it out against the community.


This what I always say when this issue brought up. Self defense already covered these situations. I work in the court system and watch trials all the time. Do you know how many people who own guns are robbed at gun point so the robbers can steal more guns. The home owners stash of weapons do them no good. I am sure there are scenarios where guns protect people, but in my experience people overestimate how good they are with guns. Florida is like the wild west carrying guns and feeling like they are justified to use it over any little offense since they don't have to retreat.
 
2018-11-02 03:26:45 PM  

Eli WhiskeyDik: [img.fark.net image 233x167]
/ducks


I have not been on Fark in years. First time back, and BAM, there's the gun-slinging doofus!
 
2018-11-02 03:30:56 PM  

Alien Robot: Dimensio: If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.

More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."


Are they killed in a proportion equal to or greater than their overall representation in the total population?
 
2018-11-02 03:32:15 PM  

Jelly Bean Raider: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.

Do you have a small dick? Needed data to answer your question.

You post is a bit pathetic, as I was only talking about the cases in this article.


You sound like an angry, little man.
 
2018-11-02 03:34:59 PM  

Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-11-02 03:35:10 PM  

Dimensio: Alien Robot: Dimensio: If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.

More "whites" are killed each year in the United States than "non-whites."

Are they killed in a proportion equal to or greater than their overall representation in the total population?


I hate being killed in proportion.
 
2018-11-02 03:37:16 PM  
Live in FL and have a CCW. Way too many armchair prosecutors who got an F- in GED law... I carry to protect my family and  myself from attack and aggression, both in my house ( plus in and around my yard) and when about town.  There is a fine line about knowing that the aggressor is done/ retreating and whether they are going to continue their dangerous actions ( add in drunk, on drugs or other mental illness). So yeah, was the guy with the axe done? Or was he going to swing again/ more? The average stupid farter doesn't know, wasn't there, and is eating Cheetos in his grandma's basement... so, sorry if I don't put any stock in your opinion.

Stand your Ground came about because Prosecutors were going up against the victims of crime ( house break ins, car jackings, and other attacks), not charging/ putting away violent ( often repeat) felons.  It also clarified the intruder in your house at 2am issue. Whether he is a potential "bodily harm" capable criminal ; or you need to lock your self in your own bedroom and abandon the down stairs until the police might show up.

So I am of the mind of not giving up the safety of my house (+car/ tent/ camper etc).
 
2018-11-02 03:38:34 PM  

phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.

Do you have a small dick? Needed data to answer your question.

You post is a bit pathetic, as I was only talking about the cases in this article.

You sound like an angry, little man.


Why? Because I do not feel the need to act like a child and insert myself into something that was never intended for me?

My question still stands concerning your penis size.
 
2018-11-02 03:41:28 PM  

Jelly Bean Raider: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.

Do you have a small dick? Needed data to answer your question.

You post is a bit pathetic, as I was only talking about the cases in this article.

You sound like an angry, little man.

Why? Because I do not feel the need to act like a child and insert myself into something that was never intended for me?

My question still stands concerning your penis size.


Yes, agreed, all the gangbangers out there shooting each other all have little penises. Thank you Captain Obvious.
 
2018-11-02 03:42:44 PM  

Boojum2k: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

[img.fark.net image 425x333]


That's photoshopped
 
2018-11-02 03:44:14 PM  

DiggityDynomite: Jelly Bean Raider: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.

Do you have a small dick? Needed data to answer your question.

You post is a bit pathetic, as I was only talking about the cases in this article.

You sound like an angry, little man.

Why? Because I do not feel the need to act like a child and insert myself into something that was never intended for me?

My question still stands concerning your penis size.

Yes, agreed, all the gangbangers out there shooting each other all have little penises. Thank you Captain Obvious.


My pleasure! ..!.,
 
2018-11-02 03:44:56 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Boojum2k: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

[img.fark.net image 425x333]

That's photoshopped


Ron Jeremy Dennis Hof and Calico Light Weapon Systems
Youtube D_qnqW1EYx8
 
2018-11-02 03:46:00 PM  

Boojum2k: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

[img.fark.net image 425x333]


Did he get it in her eyes?
 
2018-11-02 03:46:17 PM  

Boojum2k: Voiceofreason01: Boojum2k: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

[img.fark.net image 425x333]

That's photoshopped

[YouTube video: Ron Jeremy Dennis Hof and Calico Light Weapon Systems]


And?
 
2018-11-02 03:46:53 PM  

Swampmaster: I carry to protect my family and  myself from attack and aggression, both in my house ( plus in and around my yard) and when about town.  There is a fine line about knowing that the aggressor is done/ retreating and whether they are going to continue their dangerous actions


Sounds like you engage a lot of bad hombres. All that personal combat sounds interesting. Tell us all about that.
 
2018-11-02 03:46:58 PM  
Florida is just trying to be more progressive.

The practical effect of "Stand Your Ground" law is that anyone* can legally kill anyone, at any time, for any reason. In other states this privilege is restricted to LEOs, but Florida is pioneering a more democratic and inclusive approach.

*Offer only valid if you are whiter and/or wealthier than your victim.
 
2018-11-02 03:48:35 PM  

champu: Is this the thread where we use cases in which stand your ground wasn't applied to complain about the stand your ground law?

Oh, that's every SYG thread?

Okay, later.


Go kiss a gun.
 
2018-11-02 03:48:43 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Boojum2k: Voiceofreason01: Boojum2k: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

[img.fark.net image 425x333]

That's photoshopped

[YouTube video: Ron Jeremy Dennis Hof and Calico Light Weapon Systems]

And?


It's not photoshopped. Might want to go back to examining your pixel.
 
2018-11-02 03:48:51 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-11-02 03:52:53 PM  

Swampmaster: Live in FL and have a CCW. Way too many armchair prosecutors who got an F- in GED law... I carry to protect my family and  myself from attack and aggression, both in my house ( plus in and around my yard) and when about town.  There is a fine line about knowing that the aggressor is done/ retreating and whether they are going to continue their dangerous actions ( add in drunk, on drugs or other mental illness). So yeah, was the guy with the axe done? Or was he going to swing again/ more? The average stupid farter doesn't know, wasn't there, and is eating Cheetos in his grandma's basement... so, sorry if I don't put any stock in your opinion.

Stand your Ground came about because Prosecutors were going up against the victims of crime ( house break ins, car jackings, and other attacks), not charging/ putting away violent ( often repeat) felons.  It also clarified the intruder in your house at 2am issue. Whether he is a potential "bodily harm" capable criminal ; or you need to lock your self in your own bedroom and abandon the down stairs until the police might show up.

So I am of the mind of not giving up the safety of my house (+car/ tent/ camper etc).


Carrying a gun is notthe most effective way of treating your irrational, pants-wetting fear of everything and everyone. Your doctor can prescribe something for that.
 
2018-11-02 03:55:42 PM  

emtwo: Swampmaster: Live in FL and have a CCW. Way too many armchair prosecutors who got an F- in GED law... I carry to protect my family and  myself from attack and aggression, both in my house ( plus in and around my yard) and when about town.  There is a fine line about knowing that the aggressor is done/ retreating and whether they are going to continue their dangerous actions ( add in drunk, on drugs or other mental illness). So yeah, was the guy with the axe done? Or was he going to swing again/ more? The average stupid farter doesn't know, wasn't there, and is eating Cheetos in his grandma's basement... so, sorry if I don't put any stock in your opinion.

Stand your Ground came about because Prosecutors were going up against the victims of crime ( house break ins, car jackings, and other attacks), not charging/ putting away violent ( often repeat) felons.  It also clarified the intruder in your house at 2am issue. Whether he is a potential "bodily harm" capable criminal ; or you need to lock your self in your own bedroom and abandon the down stairs until the police might show up.

So I am of the mind of not giving up the safety of my house (+car/ tent/ camper etc).

Carrying a gun is notthe most effective way of treating your irrational, pants-wetting fear of everything and everyone. Your doctor can prescribe something for that.


I, for one, cannot stand constantly being terrified whenever I go in public just because gun nuts have to constantly live in fear.
 
2018-11-02 03:55:59 PM  

AirForceVet: How the SYG laws in FL are interpreted remains scary. Too many people believe SYG gives them the right to settle any disagreement and/or confrontation with deadly force, period.


Tampa Bay Times collected a database of cases and noted that the scariest part was the inconsistency. Very similar cases could have very different outcomes.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/publics​a​fety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-l​aw-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depen​ding-on/1233133
 
2018-11-02 03:58:01 PM  
So, their examples are two cases in which the shooter has been charged and a third where the person being shot had a lethal weapon in their hand?

Oh... Okay.. yeah.

Terrible article is terrible.
 
2018-11-02 04:04:04 PM  

Click Click D'oh: So, their examples are two cases in which the shooter has been charged and a third where the person being shot had a lethal weapon in their hand?

Oh... Okay.. yeah.

Terrible article is terrible.


What does being charged have to do with anything? SYG is a legal defense after you are chargeda, not necessarily an exemption from being charged in the first place.

Also, the place is a goddamned Army/Navy Surplus store. Every paying customer in there has a "lethal weapon" in their hand or their shopping cart. That doesn't mean they all deserve to be shot as they're leaving the building.
 
2018-11-02 04:08:09 PM  

Dimensio: If you do not want to be shot, just follow three simple rules:

1) Do not break into homes.
2) Do not attack people.
3) Do not be non-white.

A lot of people are good at following two of those rules but that is insufficient.  You need to obey all three.


And don't be in the presence of a feral white who decides he is afraid for any reason or no reason.
 
2018-11-02 04:08:18 PM  

dywed88: phenn: Jelly Bean Raider: Small men with small dicks...

Whatcha' gonna do?

Really, now?

I'm a woman. If 3 big, powerful men got into my home or rolled up on me in a parking lot, what would you recommend I do? Run and hope for the best? Yell and hope someone intervenes?

There are very good reasons for these laws. Sorry Floridians can't seem to figure out what they are.

If there is a reasonable fear for the safety of yourself or others you are covered under self-defense. If there is not, you shouldn't be killing people. That is why these laws aren't needed.


You guys keep assuming that the rest of us trust the prosecutor's office. We have prosecutors here in St. Louis that absolutely destroy people's lives over unpaid traffic tickets, and keep the poor in jail for months when they can't pay $200. And these are the people that you want me to trust to make a decision about what's "reasonable", or what my options were?

Thanks, but no thanks.
 
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