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(The Atlantic)   Psychologist devised plan where adoption agency separated twins and triplets and placed them with families of different economic levels and backgrounds, just to see how their lives differed. No word on whether he won $1   ( theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Identical Strangers, Twins, DNA, Twin, Louise Wise Services, Nature versus nurture, Pregnancy, Zygote  
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4267 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2018 at 9:50 AM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-10-12 08:55:38 AM  
We just watched this. An amazing, but sad story. The study, AFAIK, still has not been released.

Highly recommended.
 
2018-10-12 09:02:42 AM  
I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?
 
2018-10-12 09:32:00 AM  
Let's put kids in cages and see if that does anything!
 
2018-10-12 09:52:55 AM  
How Megelesque of him.
 
2018-10-12 09:54:20 AM  
Huh, so this is what a mad scientist looks like in the field of psychology...
 
2018-10-12 09:55:06 AM  
yup the sick tag ..fits
 
2018-10-12 09:55:25 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-12 09:55:55 AM  
Twins:  One goe to the rich, one goes to the poor
Triplets:  One goes to the rich, one goes to the poor.  The third stays in the lab as the control group?

3rd Triplet on his 16th birthday:  Why am I living in a lab?
Scientist:  Quiet!  You'll ruin the experiment.
 
2018-10-12 09:56:20 AM  

KarmicDisaster: Let's put kids in cages and see if that does anything!


"Children should be put in a barrel and fed through the bunghole. When they turn 18, the bunghole should be sealed."
 
2018-10-12 09:56:53 AM  
Saw Three Identical Strangers at a little art house cinema here in town. When my conservative friend saw "CNN films" He said out loud "Are you kidding me?" It was all I could do to not laugh out loud.
 
2018-10-12 09:56:58 AM  
At least they weren't raised on bologna and white bread...

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-12 09:58:49 AM  
Back in my less sane days I thought that people did certain things just to see how I'd react. For a very long time I even thought that my father faked his own death (in front of me) just to play along with everyone else. After many, many, many years of therapy and medications I had broke myself of those thoughts. And I'm doing pretty good now, if you ask me.

BUT!
Now I'm not so sure.
 
2018-10-12 09:59:08 AM  

fragMasterFlash: At least they weren't raised on bologna and white bread...

[img.fark.net image 425x318]


Those are some pretty horrific birth defects.
 
2018-10-12 09:59:21 AM  
I wonder how useful this study will be, all the children here where adopted which means they where all wanted children with caring parents who had enough money to actually afford adoption. Sure there could still be a wide range in backgrounds but having attentive parents probably plays a larger role in developing a healthy psychology more so than anything else.
 
2018-10-12 10:01:53 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
 
2018-10-12 10:02:55 AM  

Subtonic: fragMasterFlash: At least they weren't raised on bologna and white bread...

[img.fark.net image 425x318]

Those are some pretty horrific birth defects.


One like = one prayer
 
2018-10-12 10:03:12 AM  
I think I've seen this movie before...
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-12 10:04:25 AM  
Is it sick? I should see the film. I mean, I could have been adopted at birth. That's not sick. If I found out I was part of a study I'm not sure if I would be fascinated or creeped out. Maybe I'm sick. I mean this isn't Baby Albert folks.
 
2018-10-12 10:05:47 AM  
Looking Good Billy Ray
Youtube XtKydtoLucc
 
2018-10-12 10:06:48 AM  
i.kinja-img.comView Full Size
 
2018-10-12 10:09:21 AM  

Mr. Fuzzypaws: Back in my less sane days I thought that people did certain things just to see how I'd react. For a very long time I even thought that my father faked his own death (in front of me) just to play along with everyone else. After many, many, many years of therapy and medications I had broke myself of those thoughts. And I'm doing pretty good now, if you ask me.

BUT!
Now I'm not so sure.


Tell your therapist that you've been exposed to Fark.
Well, bye.
 
2018-10-12 10:09:31 AM  

stuhayes2010: [img.fark.net image 850x531]Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?


Seriously... Mengele came to mind when I read the headline.
That ain't right to experiment on the unwilling zwilling.
 
2018-10-12 10:10:47 AM  

Mr. Fuzzypaws: Back in my less sane days I thought that people did certain things just to see how I'd react. For a very long time I even thought that my father faked his own death (in front of me) just to play along with everyone else. After many, many, many years of therapy and medications I had broke myself of those thoughts. And I'm doing pretty good now, if you ask me.

BUT!
Now I'm not so sure.


I just thought you acted that way because you are from Buffalo, NY.
 
2018-10-12 10:13:19 AM  
Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.
 
2018-10-12 10:13:52 AM  
Jesus, and yet if I accidentally write in a study proposal that I'm going to interview a subject matter expert I bring the wrath of the Independent Review Board worried about human experimentation and Personal Identifying Information down upon my head.
 
2018-10-12 10:14:01 AM  

Snarfangel: Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.


Sorry.... you're thinking of gingers.
 
2018-10-12 10:14:55 AM  

Snarfangel: Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.


I thought only souless gingers weren't considered real people. Now we're throwing genetic clones into that mix too?
 
2018-10-12 10:15:16 AM  

johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?


Hopefully, no one will ever see them. This "study" should be treated as an example of unethical research, and it's actual "findings" burned. Science needs no fruit from this poisonous tree.
 
2018-10-12 10:15:58 AM  

cowgirl toffee: Snarfangel: Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.

Sorry.... you're thinking of gingers.


Goddammit.
 
2018-10-12 10:17:21 AM  

cowgirl toffee: Snarfangel: Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.

Sorry.... you're thinking of gingers.


Guilty as charged.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-12 10:18:32 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Jesus, and yet if I accidentally write in a study proposal that I'm going to interview a subject matter expert I bring the wrath of the Independent Review Board worried about human experimentation and Personal Identifying Information down upon my head.


Hell, I had to back and forth with our IRB to give a standardized survey (MISO) on campus opinions about the IT department.

/It wasn't like I was running much voltage through the electrodes while they were filling it out...
 
2018-10-12 10:27:15 AM  

Dick Gozinya: Snarfangel: Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.

I thought only souless gingers weren't considered real people. Now we're throwing genetic clones into that mix too?


Gingers have no souls. Twins have half a soul apiece. Triplets each get a third of a soul.

And if you have twin or triplet redheads...
img.fark.netView Full Size

I DIVIDED BY ZERO OH SHI--
 
2018-10-12 10:27:43 AM  

johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?


From the documentary I watched, no.  The triplets were placed with families headed by a surgeon, a teacher, and a immigrant store-owner, all in the NYC area.  All three boys struggled with mental health issues, sometimes to the point of being hospitalized.  All three seemed most fond of the store owner, who they called Bubbe, and who angrily told the adoption agency that he would have adopted all three as babies.  I came away with the feeling that if you've got your basic physical needs taken care of -- as all these kids did -- the difference is what your parents can give you in terms of their time and attention.
 
2018-10-12 10:31:37 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: How Megelesque of him.


And just like with Mengele...

johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study.


...everyone ABHORS the methodology, but is EXTREMELY INTERESTED in the results.
 
2018-10-12 10:33:13 AM  

Snarfangel: Dick Gozinya: Snarfangel: Oh come on, these were twins and triplets, not like real people.

I thought only souless gingers weren't considered real people. Now we're throwing genetic clones into that mix too?

Gingers have no souls. Twins have half a soul apiece. Triplets each get a third of a soul.

And if you have twin or triplet redheads...
[img.fark.net image 850x600]
I DIVIDED BY ZERO OH SHI--


I knew redhead identical twins growing up. No singularity, but I'm pretty sure they feasted on others' souls.
 
2018-10-12 10:36:41 AM  

kentuckienne: johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?

From the documentary I watched, no.  The triplets were placed with families headed by a surgeon, a teacher, and a immigrant store-owner, all in the NYC area.  All three boys struggled with mental health issues, sometimes to the point of being hospitalized.  All three seemed most fond of the store owner, who they called Bubbe, and who angrily told the adoption agency that he would have adopted all three as babies.  I came away with the feeling that if you've got your basic physical needs taken care of -- as all these kids did -- the difference is what your parents can give you in terms of their time and attention.


my take from like is money can't buy compassion or bonding.  In fact, people with money tend to be too distracted by their power to properly bond, hence why they do studies like this.

Poor people tend to get the short end of the stick, so if they arn't batshiat crazy, it gives you a little empathy even if you had none.  Or more likely i'd say, so the immigrant store owner is probably the most humble, and probably treats them most on the same level.

What kind of time and attention, one like play dates that are controlled by the parents?

I don't think it's really 'what it is' to be a good relationship, more 'what it's not'.  As in not controlling, not abusive etc.
 
2018-10-12 10:36:53 AM  
Sure, because for the 100 thousand or so years that humans have been on earth, it's always been a mystery as to whether the wealthy and powerful have advantages over those with less or no wealth or power.

Apparently, the investigation is ongoing. They're probably gonna have to study it for another thousand years or so, at least.
 
2018-10-12 10:37:38 AM  
Sick?  Plenty of siblings get separated via adoption, and people of all walks of life adopt children.  There was literally zero effect on the overall quality of life for any of these kids, other than removing the randomness of it.  Christ.  Whole bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires in here.  "Those kids DESERVED an equal random chance of being adopted by some rich couple!"
 
2018-10-12 10:38:13 AM  

jso2897: johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?

Hopefully, no one will ever see them. This "study" should be treated as an example of unethical research, and it's actual "findings" burned. Science needs no fruit from this poisonous tree.


I understand what you are saying. But IIRC, the study does have names of other participants that do not yet know. However they want to do it, those people need to be told.

Wikipedia ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id​entica​l_Strangers
 
2018-10-12 10:38:21 AM  
It's a psychologists job to come up with experiments to find out things like this.  It's the adoption agency's job to look after the welfare of the children and tell the psychologist "No farking way"
 
GBB
2018-10-12 10:38:35 AM  
Anecdote: My mother had a child and gave it up for adoption before she met my father.  My half brother contacted us a few years ago.  He was adopted by a prominent family and went to the US Naval Academy in Annapolis and recently retired as a LTCMDR radar plane pilot.

Meanwhile, my sister and I were raised in near poverty by our shiftless single father after Mom died.  We both did OK, but not elite school and early retirement after illustrious military career.
 
GBB
2018-10-12 10:40:00 AM  

fragMasterFlash: At least they weren't raised on bologna and white bread...

[img.fark.net image 425x318]


When Buffalo Bill is the babysitter.
 
2018-10-12 10:40:42 AM  

jso2897: johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?

Hopefully, no one will ever see them. This "study" should be treated as an example of unethical research, and it's actual "findings" burned. Science needs no fruit from this poisonous tree.


Like it or not science is filled with fruit from poisonous trees that you are currently benefitting from.  A lot of what we know about the effects of radiation on the human body, as well as cancer, comes from the military walking troops into nuclear wastelands in the desert.
 
zez
2018-10-12 10:41:37 AM  
What if a psychologist turns a single child into triplets?

brianorndorf.typepad.comView Full Size
 
2018-10-12 10:42:38 AM  

GBB: Anecdote: My mother had a child and gave it up for adoption before she met my father.  My half brother contacted us a few years ago.  He was adopted by a prominent family and went to the US Naval Academy in Annapolis and recently retired as a LTCMDR radar plane pilot.

Meanwhile, my sister and I were raised in near poverty by our shiftless single father after Mom died.  We both did OK, but not elite school and early retirement after illustrious military career.


Did he used to post on Fark as FLYNAVY?
 
2018-10-12 10:43:18 AM  
Wasn't this an episode of Law & Order?
 
2018-10-12 10:46:25 AM  

Anenu: I wonder how useful this study will be, all the children here where adopted which means they where all wanted children with caring parents who had enough money to actually afford adoption. Sure there could still be a wide range in backgrounds but having attentive parents probably plays a larger role in developing a healthy psychology more so than anything else.


In 1964 adoption was not expensive. There was an abundance of babies because birth control was not as easily available and unwed motherhood had a strong social stigma. Fees were low because the agencies needed to get the babies out. In England we had so many babies that we still had orphanages. Nowadays women can keep the baby and not be ostracized. Plus the pill and abortion mean fewer babies, so agencies charge a lot for a rare commodity.
 
2018-10-12 10:47:52 AM  

Anenu: I wonder how useful this study will be, all the children here where adopted which means they where all wanted children with caring parents who had enough money to actually afford adoption. Sure there could still be a wide range in backgrounds but having attentive parents probably plays a larger role in developing a healthy psychology more so than anything else.


NatGeo did a piece on separated twins years ago and it was fascinating. There have been a couple cases over the decades and way more of our behavior is dictated by genetics than we would perhaps like to admit. For example, a pair of Chinese girls were separated and adopted to Canadian couples (the agency lied about them being sisters). The sisters hit developmental milestones at the same time (sometimes down to the day) and developed similar interests at the same time.

As the name implies, the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart studied 137 sets of separated twins and came to the conclusion that for things like intelligence: "for people raised in the same culture with the same opportunities, differences in IQ reflected largely differences in inheritance rather than in training or education. Using data from four different tests, they came up with a heritability score of 0.75 for intelligence, suggesting the strong influence of heredity."

NatGeo article on separated twins
It's a fascinating article if you're interested in the subject.
 
2018-10-12 10:48:33 AM  

links136: kentuckienne: johnryan51: I'm very interested in the results of this study. Starting on 3rd base or tossing the ball in the parking lot. Does wealth change anything?

From the documentary I watched, no.  The triplets were placed with families headed by a surgeon, a teacher, and a immigrant store-owner, all in the NYC area.  All three boys struggled with mental health issues, sometimes to the point of being hospitalized.  All three seemed most fond of the store owner, who they called Bubbe, and who angrily told the adoption agency that he would have adopted all three as babies.  I came away with the feeling that if you've got your basic physical needs taken care of -- as all these kids did -- the difference is what your parents can give you in terms of their time and attention.

my take from like is money can't buy compassion or bonding.  In fact, people with money tend to be too distracted by their power to properly bond, hence why they do studies like this.

Poor people tend to get the short end of the stick, so if they arn't batshiat crazy, it gives you a little empathy even if you had none.  Or more likely i'd say, so the immigrant store owner is probably the most humble, and probably treats them most on the same level.

What kind of time and attention, one like play dates that are controlled by the parents?

I don't think it's really 'what it is' to be a good relationship, more 'what it's not'.  As in not controlling, not abusive etc.


Right, none of these kids were "deprived" in terms of housing, food, education, etc.  But the surgeon didn't have much time for his son, and the teacher was apparently a strict disciplinarian, to the point that he and his son never got along.  The store owner was apparently a warm, loving father -- in the movie they have a picture of him with all three boys at some sort of formal event, all smiling in tuxes.  Not all three fathers, just the triplets and the store owner.  When he died, all three grieved.
 
2018-10-12 10:49:05 AM  
Could be worse, I suppose.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
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