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(Polygon)   Forget the living world, the gorgeous visuals, the working public transit system, the disturbingly uncanny facial movements or Mark Hamill in his greatest video game performance since the 90s. No, let's biatch and moan about some $350 space ship   (polygon.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Star Citizen, Valkyrie, Release, Armoured warfare, Roberts Space Industries, Cloud Imperium Games, Star Citizen project, close attack ship  
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2359 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 11 Oct 2018 at 12:35 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2018-10-11 2:06:06 PM  
Whats wrong with you people! Don't you know Chris Roberts is giving us the gift of imagination. Look, when you play the lotto you know your not going to win. What the lotto gives us is the dream and imagination of what it would be like if we were millionaires for a cost of $2. So for a measly $330 for the attach ship with addition to your $700 Hercules Starlifter A2 and your $3000 Javelin, now you can have an even more epic space battle in your over active daydreams. Can we really put a price on that?

Star Citizen -- it's not about playing a space game, it's about the allure of playing one!
 
2018-10-11 2:09:02 PM  

kmfjd: [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/7LN0TsXLcfc]


Res ipsa loquitur.
 
2018-10-11 2:09:28 PM  

hammer85: I wouldn't be as skeptic if nearly every single update didn't come with "oh and here's something else you can buy that isn't an actual farking game for hundreds of dollars".


That's my biggest concern right there, that Roberts has painted himself into a corner to where he's either going to have to piss off the people who have spent thousands of dollars, or the people buying a box copy for $60.  Given that choice, does anyone really think he'd piss off the gravy train?

I get that it's a convention demo and the economy is far from finalized but since we don't have anything else to go off of yet, that hour+ mission paid out 4k credits, and the ships start at what, 200k in-game?
 
2018-10-11 2:11:35 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 2:11:49 PM  

Beta Tested: No one has made a" Massively Multiplayer Online First and Third Person Shooter Strategy Tactical Economy" game because that is a monumentally stupid idea.  It is dumb for the same reason making an "Animated Romance Comedy Drama Action Adventure Sci-fi Western Horror Crime Documentary" film is.  Or putting solar panels on roads.


Hey, I saw that movie!

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 2:15:29 PM  

somedude210: LucklessWonder: somedude210: shiatposting and trolling are explicitly banned in the TOS. and what he did in the thread yesterday was a clear cut example of those which would violate the TOS.

based on what you think I'm claiming, i would've reported the whole thread,

Sounds like I missed some drama. Which thread has you all up in arms? (Generic all farkers "you" not specific somedude210 "you")

was referring to reporting this thread, not the one yesterday. My apologies on the confusion.


Okay, so are you saying that you did report the thread, or is that still something that you claim you would never do.?
 
2018-10-11 2:20:43 PM  
BTW I bought Privateer 2 off GoG in the summer. Haven't gotten around loading it as I got a new gaming tower, so newer games and XCOM 2 mods have taken precedent.

Is it stable in Windows 10 or any good?
 
2018-10-11 2:25:22 PM  

Wintermute6: hammer85: I wouldn't be as skeptic if nearly every single update didn't come with "oh and here's something else you can buy that isn't an actual farking game for hundreds of dollars".

That's my biggest concern right there, that Roberts has painted himself into a corner to where he's either going to have to piss off the people who have spent thousands of dollars, or the people buying a box copy for $60.  Given that choice, does anyone really think he'd piss off the gravy train?

I get that it's a convention demo and the economy is far from finalized but since we don't have anything else to go off of yet, that hour+ mission paid out 4k credits, and the ships start at what, 200k in-game?


I have no idea how to control an economy where the biggest ships can be bought with money and therefore can dictate the prices of goods through sheer bulk, and the ability to "steal" those ships to sell or use for a single session (that the original owner can then respawn a new version) that seems ripe for abuse.
 
2018-10-11 2:29:10 PM  
They should just work on turning it into the OASIS...
 
2018-10-11 2:36:47 PM  
Glad I got my refund while I could. I'll be pre-ordering X4 presently.

I think the "uncanny valley" between the tech demos we are seeing, and the final game we want, is insurmountable. The pieces simply are not going to come together into one single, integrated, coherent, playable universe.
 
2018-10-11 2:38:16 PM  

cjoshuav: Glad I got my refund while I could. I'll be pre-ordering X4 presently.

I think the "uncanny valley" between the tech demos we are seeing, and the final game we want, is insurmountable. The pieces simply are not going to come together into one single, integrated, coherent, playable universe.


You should not pre-order anything, especially an Egosoft game.
 
2018-10-11 2:47:35 PM  

Practical_Draconian: BTW I bought Privateer 2 off GoG in the summer. Haven't gotten around loading it as I got a new gaming tower, so newer games and XCOM 2 mods have taken precedent.

Is it stable in Windows 10 or any good?


Privateer 2 has inexplicably Clive Owen doing the live action cutscenes. Clive farking Owen, movie star.
 
2018-10-11 2:50:19 PM  

Esc7: Practical_Draconian: BTW I bought Privateer 2 off GoG in the summer. Haven't gotten around loading it as I got a new gaming tower, so newer games and XCOM 2 mods have taken precedent.

Is it stable in Windows 10 or any good?

Privateer 2 has inexplicably Clive Owen doing the live action cutscenes. Clive farking Owen, movie star.


For a while everyone thought "rich media" games were going to be the next form of entertainment. That's how they sold a lot of these actors/actresses ended up with "roles" in games initially. The voice-over stuff actually worked out better, and that's why you'll still see top-tier talent doing voice-overs in some franchises.
 
2018-10-11 2:51:06 PM  

Beta Tested: You should not pre-order anything, especially an Egosoft game.


I know, I know but they always make it right in the end. I really want to support their return to the original formula, and I know how hard they've been working on this title. This is my vote of encouragement.
 
2018-10-11 3:08:14 PM  

cjoshuav: Beta Tested: You should not pre-order anything, especially an Egosoft game.

I know, I know but they always make it right in the end. I really want to support their return to the original formula, and I know how hard they've been working on this title. This is my vote of encouragement.


Is it going to more like X3? The last one I was not all that impressed with.
 
2018-10-11 3:11:56 PM  

hi13760: cjoshuav: Beta Tested: You should not pre-order anything, especially an Egosoft game.

I know, I know but they always make it right in the end. I really want to support their return to the original formula, and I know how hard they've been working on this title. This is my vote of encouragement.

Is it going to more like X3? The last one I was not all that impressed with.


it looks like a combination of both? Pulling the best parts of X: Reunion and merging it with x3. Plus you can build your own space stations and walk around outside of your ship
 
2018-10-11 3:12:24 PM  
rebirth not reunion
 
2018-10-11 3:16:03 PM  

hi13760: cjoshuav: Beta Tested: You should not pre-order anything, especially an Egosoft game.

I know, I know but they always make it right in the end. I really want to support their return to the original formula, and I know how hard they've been working on this title. This is my vote of encouragement.

Is it going to more like X3? The last one I was not all that impressed with.


As SomeDude says, they're returning to the formula of traditional X games, but you'll be able to walk around the bridge of your ships .
 
2018-10-11 3:25:30 PM  

cjoshuav: hi13760: cjoshuav: Beta Tested: You should not pre-order anything, especially an Egosoft game.

I know, I know but they always make it right in the end. I really want to support their return to the original formula, and I know how hard they've been working on this title. This is my vote of encouragement.

Is it going to more like X3? The last one I was not all that impressed with.

As SomeDude says, they're returning to the formula of traditional X games, but you'll be able to walk around the bridge of your ships .


and space stations, if the video is correct.
 
2018-10-11 3:32:57 PM  

somedude210: ...and space stations, if the video is correct.


Indeed!

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=4673345#4673345
 
2018-10-11 3:39:50 PM  
Star Citizen 3.3 PTU - First playable fps mission with AI
Youtube N52478KlIso


Impressive AI
 
2018-10-11 3:40:56 PM  

hammer85: If you're going to sell a ship for 1000 dollars, you will make that ship nearly impossible to ever obtain through normal, non-$$$ play.


QFT. The people who have spent thousands of dollars on pre-order ships would flip their shiat if you could obtain the same ships through a few dozen hours of grinding. It'll quickly become "oh, you want this ship? Either shell out some cash, or be prepared to spend tens of thousands of hours grinding for it..."
 
2018-10-11 3:52:09 PM  

Theaetetus: hammer85: If you're going to sell a ship for 1000 dollars, you will make that ship nearly impossible to ever obtain through normal, non-$$$ play.

QFT. The people who have spent thousands of dollars on pre-order ships would flip their shiat if you could obtain the same ships through a few dozen hours of grinding. It'll quickly become "oh, you want this ship? Either shell out some cash, or be prepared to spend tens of thousands of hours grinding for it..."


And that goes back to the economy too.  Anything that seems tooproductive is going to be nerfed.  Imagine if you could buy a cutter wholesale for 300 bucks in elite dangerous, and how farking fast Quince would have been nerfed into the ground when the tourist missions were figured out.  Hell, they'd be incentivized to punish people who used it as "exploiting".
 
2018-10-11 4:24:26 PM  
I built a whole new gaming rig just to play SC when it came out. That was 5 years ago. I'm still waiting.

I played a bit of the test demo and it was beautiful and cool, but unplayably buggy.  Couldn't use guns or armor, couldn't complete missions, and constant crashes.  Movement was sluggish and the controls were awkward.  Felt a bit like playing ARMA, but in space.

Looking forward to X4 next month.  I loved X2 and X3 and I spent years playing them, but the same guys also made X: Rebirth, which was an abortion, so I'm praying it doesn't suck.
 
2018-10-11 4:44:37 PM  

Slybri: I built a whole new gaming rig just to play SC when it came out. That was 5 years ago. I'm still waiting.

I played a bit of the test demo and it was beautiful and cool, but unplayably buggy.  Couldn't use guns or armor, couldn't complete missions, and constant crashes.  Movement was sluggish and the controls were awkward.  Felt a bit like playing ARMA, but in space.

Looking forward to X4 next month.  I loved X2 and X3 and I spent years playing them, but the same guys also made X: Rebirth, which was an abortion, so I'm praying it doesn't suck.


I think Egosoft is taking steps backwards with X4.  They were on the right track with Rebirth, they just bungled the detailed designs and execution.  The idea of having dedicated, modular, players ships and using drones as semi-disposable fighters is completely correct.  If you execute it properly (they didn't).

One of X3's biggest problems was how boring and repetitive the ships were, especially when it came to "player ships".  There were only a handful worth your time and there was a ton of pointless micromanagement involved.  Rebirth removed some of this annoying micromanagement, but didn't go far enough.

Carving out a niche for capital ships (i.e. they weren't flyable) was also the correct decision.  They are totally right when they said that to make cap ships behave like cap ships they would need to be very unresponsive in direct flight.  So, with X4 (assuming they are pilot-able) they will either have to make them behave like they did in X3 (basically just auto-firing giant fighters) or move properly but tedious to fly.

As much as I've played the X-series it has "programmers don't respect design as a discipline and think they can do it themselves" written all over it.  At this point the only thing on the horizon with some promise seems to be Rebel Galaxy Outlaw.
 
2018-10-11 4:46:20 PM  

Slybri: Looking forward to X4 next month.  I loved X2 and X3 and I spent years playing them, but the same guys also made X: Rebirth, which was an abortion, so I'm praying it doesn't suck.


Did you see my link, above? All signs point to them getting it right this time. I think it will have everything I need to forget I ever backed SC.
 
2018-10-11 5:02:35 PM  
Well, with one fraudster capped after Fyre Festival, I doubt complaining will be needed shortly with Star Citizen...
 
2018-10-11 5:08:33 PM  

hammer85: Theaetetus: hammer85: If you're going to sell a ship for 1000 dollars, you will make that ship nearly impossible to ever obtain through normal, non-$$$ play.

QFT. The people who have spent thousands of dollars on pre-order ships would flip their shiat if you could obtain the same ships through a few dozen hours of grinding. It'll quickly become "oh, you want this ship? Either shell out some cash, or be prepared to spend tens of thousands of hours grinding for it..."

And that goes back to the economy too.  Anything that seems tooproductive is going to be nerfed.  Imagine if you could buy a cutter wholesale for 300 bucks in elite dangerous, and how farking fast Quince would have been nerfed into the ground when the tourist missions were figured out.  Hell, they'd be incentivized to punish people who used it as "exploiting".


You both raise very legit concerns. To Hammer's point about the $1000+ ships costing a shiatton of UEC in game, large ships, particularly those in that price range (Idris, Kraken) are not ships that you and a buddy could take out joy riding. The larger ships will have to be operated by an org/clan because the cost to operate them would be astronomical simply on fuel/food/wages/etc. So yes, there will be some of those ships owned by players, 95% of them are likely owned by orgs who have the manpower and collective income to maintain that in their fleet. The other 5% are those who either really want to back the game, or are hoping to entice people to join their org because "hells yeah, I got myself a Kraken!"

Theaetetus: It'll quickly become "oh, you want this ship? Either shell out some cash, or be prepared to spend tens of thousands of hours grinding for it..."


it won't. Never will be. Once SC goes live (or whatever the state of "live" would be in), they aren't going to be selling ships via the website for money, except the likely starter packages (either an aurora or mustang alpha). They've stated all along that once ship buying/renting is in and they stop the server wipes, ships will no longer be sold.

But to the larger "pay2win" argument, there is no "end game", as it were. There's no ultimate ship. You can keep grinding all you want for the ship you want, but that ship you desire is not the same ship that dude wants or that dudette is craving. In terms of single-seat craft, there are a bunch of multi-role ships (Cutlass, Avenger, Mustang, Aurora) that do a few roles reasonably well (combat, cargo hauling, smuggling) but the few specialized craft (Prospector, Cutlass Red, Hawk, Hornet, Gladius, Herald) either can't do all the things a multi-role ship can do, but can do a specific role really freaking well.

Then if you go to multi-crew ships (Constellation, Freelancer, Hull series, Apollo), Caterpillar you can run it solo if you want, but having a crew makes you more effective simply because you have other people focusing on different roles and manning turrets. Then when you get to the small cap ships (Hammerhead, Polaris, Kraken) you'll require even more crew and shared income from the crew to pay for operating costs.

Suffice it to say, the more expensive ships are not necessarily better. Their roles may be more robust, or can do things better, but there are trade-offs.

Finally back to your point, Hammer:

hammer85: Imagine if you could buy a cutter wholesale for 300 bucks in elite dangerous, and how farking fast Quince would have been nerfed into the ground when the tourist missions were figured out. Hell, they'd be incentivized to punish people who used it as "exploiting".


The way I think SC gets around this problem is by sheer diversity of ships, and the roles/abilities that each can pull off. You could have three ships (A superhornet (military-grade fighter), a Cutlass Black (small multi-role) and a Constellation Andromeda (multi-crew multi-role)), all of them could be used as a single or multi-person ship (all three have turrets, SH co-pilot also is turret, Cutty co-pilot is just a co-pilot, Connie has 2 co-pilots, 2 turrets and a snub). But you may find yourself wanting to fly the SH for a combat mission (or if they ever do an event like a Vanduul raid in some system), or you do the cutty for some light cargo, exploration or fetch missions, or the connie for freight or whatever the heck you think you can do with your connie. You may have a mission that all three could handle with relative ease, but you can only fly one, so do you automatically go with the connie because it's the biggest or most expensive ship? The SH because it's a tank, able to take a beating? Or the Cutty because it can handle itself in combat and has more cargo than a SH?

I mean, yeah, it's not ideal for them to sell ships for exorbitant amount, but I don't see the "pay2win" scenario also ever playing out. CIG is actually very aware of the criticisms and pitfalls that may happen and try to mitigate around those possible scenarios, while also adding to the game (a more diverse ship lineup makes for a more lived-in universe)

I hope that explained it a bit better as to how SC is trying to mitigate those very real concerns you both raised.
 
2018-10-11 5:10:25 PM  

Beta Tested: They were on the right track with Rebirth, they just bungled the detailed designs and execution.


Have you played Rebirth since it's been patched? I'm told it's far better now than at launch (as it is with Egosoft), but I haven't gotten around to playing it.
 
2018-10-11 5:25:19 PM  
Waiting for trains in a space sim , smh
 
2018-10-11 5:30:40 PM  

somedude210: hammer85: Theaetetus: hammer85: If you're going to sell a ship for 1000 dollars, you will make that ship nearly impossible to ever obtain through normal, non-$$$ play.

QFT. The people who have spent thousands of dollars on pre-order ships would flip their shiat if you could obtain the same ships through a few dozen hours of grinding. It'll quickly become "oh, you want this ship? Either shell out some cash, or be prepared to spend tens of thousands of hours grinding for it..."

And that goes back to the economy too.  Anything that seems tooproductive is going to be nerfed.  Imagine if you could buy a cutter wholesale for 300 bucks in elite dangerous, and how farking fast Quince would have been nerfed into the ground when the tourist missions were figured out.  Hell, they'd be incentivized to punish people who used it as "exploiting".

You both raise very legit concerns. To Hammer's point about the $1000+ ships costing a shiatton of UEC in game, large ships, particularly those in that price range (Idris, Kraken) are not ships that you and a buddy could take out joy riding. The larger ships will have to be operated by an org/clan because the cost to operate them would be astronomical simply on fuel/food/wages/etc. So yes, there will be some of those ships owned by players, 95% of them are likely owned by orgs who have the manpower and collective income to maintain that in their fleet. The other 5% are those who either really want to back the game, or are hoping to entice people to join their org because "hells yeah, I got myself a Kraken!"


But this also leads to the pay2win argument you addressed to Theatetus, the best orgs are the people who drop thousands on the game (either prior to release if you actually believe they are going to close the store after launch, or after).  If there is no selling store post launch, that's actually an even more concrete way to establish one org rule.

This game isn't going with near unlimited space like E:D or NMS, where you can chunk our your own little space.  There's going to be org combat (presumably), and the biggest and baddest ships are going to massacre smaller orgs so they can never progress.

It just all seems incredibly short sighted.

And the argument that there's tons of ships isn't terribly persuasive.  In nearly every one of these games you have a best combat ship per tier, best trade, etc.  Sure you might have 200 ships, but I bet the vast majority of them will be pet projects while some will have massive use, comparatively.
 
2018-10-11 6:23:17 PM  

hammer85: This game isn't going with near unlimited space like E:D or NMS, where you can chunk our your own little space.


Yes, there are a finite amount of systems, but those systems are also pretty freakin' large. The Stanton System, when Microtech makes it in, will be close to a 60 minute drive from one side of the system to the other, non-stop. there may not be infinite jump points, but there's a shiatload of space between those jump points. Hell, just the size of the moons is huge. If CIG gave every back an 8km land claim, they still would be able to claim, I believe, half of Yela (the moon you see with the pretty ring)

hammer85: There's going to be org combat (presumably), and the biggest and baddest ships are going to massacre smaller orgs so they can never progress


That may happen, that may not. Logistically, you'd need several dozen players per cap ship, and even then the largest ship you can get is a Javelin (Derelict Bengals can be found, but they cannot be owned) which in itself has a crew of 80. Smaller orgs may not have the manpower to wield something like that, but a couple dozen bombers or a Polaris (crew of 9) torpedo cruiser evens the odds quite a bit.

there are checks and balances in the system and some of that comes from the skills of the player themselves. There's no leveling system or skill tree, you get better by playing and learning on your own.

hammer85: And the argument that there's tons of ships isn't terribly persuasive. In nearly every one of these games you have a best combat ship per tier, best trade, etc. Sure you might have 200 ships, but I bet the vast majority of them will be pet projects while some will have massive use, comparatively.


Agreed, just as you have a shiatload of Mitsubishi Fuso trucks now, but that doesn't mean the Ford or Chevy versions would be better or worse, just that the Fuso was likely the cheaper truck. Same goes for ships. The Hull-E has a shiatton of cargo capacity. Enough that part of the reason the series isn't in the game yet is that they could singlehandedly destroy the economy (such that it is currently) with oversupply, but that doesn't mean it's better. It has no defenses (okay, maybe one  turret) and is a giant freakin target for pirates. Whereas a Freelancer Max or Caterpillar may need more crew to be more efficient and can handle pirates better, but they could not singlehandedly destroy a system's economy.

Does that mean you won't see a shiatload of Hulls? You will, in all five sizes, some in convoys, some of the smaller ones maybe with an escort fighter or two, but they'll still be out there, and there will be a shiatload of Freelancers and Caterpillars around to. The universe is big.

and still, you may only see a handful of Orion mining rigs om noming an asteroid field in the entirety of your playtime, while you see more Prospectors mining away in every corner of the verse.

Couple all of that with the reality that CIG is aiming (and should hit) for a 10-1 NPC to Player ratio, and your fear of one org rule may not be something you need to worry about. The problem most MMOs have is that the NPCs are mission givers at best and don't really have a life outside of that one spot where they tell the same story about their uncle Rufus taken by Orc Vikings. SC plans to have NPCs act as actual members of the verse. They have jobs, routines, purpose. Chris said something about this in the livestream yesterday:

"longer term, AI will be able to do everything from playing arcade games to sweeping the floor, to having a drink, with the same system allowing the player to do the same systems and animations, so we can build a living, breathing city or location, because the thing is, in a multiplayer game, if you just rely on the players, for the population the problem is everyone's running around doing missions or earning money and just sprinting left and right, so the AI is important to giving the game a sense of life"

and you see that in the livestream with the bustle of city dwellers going about their business, and you see that in player mechanics too with something as simple as changing the gait of your movement via the mouse wheel, so you can easily go from a casual stroll to a power walk to a jog seamlessly, but that mechanic in and of itself is enough to bring players back down to earth as it were, and blend into the game world.

I think part of the problem between enthusiasts and critics is they have two different understandings of what the game is trying to be. Enthusiasts see the goal CIG is shooting for of a living universe that a player can simply exist in and go about whatever tickles their fancy. Critics look at what CIG is doing the the lens of what we've always been shown to be what makes a game (there must be an endgoal, there must be reward worth the journey, there must be purpose. Gamers never change, they will always be a power struggle between dicks or clans of dicks. It's a cash-grab because there's no coherent game or story or purpose or reward cycle yet! "pay2win!!!") and I fully understand where critics come from, having been one at the outset.

If CIG can pull this off, and I truly hope they do, I think SC could change what it means to be a game. You still have the basic reward cycles (get mission, complete mission, get reward, repeat) while also having the sandbox openness of singleplayer games and the multiplayer camaraderie. I honestly see CIG doing this as a labor of love, they aren't constrained by a publisher pushing them to do what the publisher feels what a game is supposed to be and they're trying to make a game they want, on their terms. I can't fault them for that. It may be a total and abject failure in the end, but it could also be milestone of gaming, something to stand the test of time (in however long that is in the gaming world).

Star Citizen is akin to a DARPA project, there's very high risk, but if they can pull it off, there's potential for a far higher reward.
 
2018-10-12 4:26:23 AM  
I like the idea of a massive, open universe game that bothers with things like actual public transit in individual cities with an actual schedule instead of just being fast travel points.
 
2018-10-12 12:20:33 PM  

somedude210: Beta Tested: They were on the right track with Rebirth, they just bungled the detailed designs and execution.

Have you played Rebirth since it's been patched? I'm told it's far better now than at launch (as it is with Egosoft), but I haven't gotten around to playing it.


I tried playing it again a few months ago, from my couch with a gamepad.  The ship is just so damn slow!  Having to hold down the throttle button to slowly move forward while squeezing the stick down to boost and boost and boost... it was instantly tedious. Like swimming through syrup. And having to scan every part of all those stations... ugh. I was thinking of trying the VR version but no... not even in VR would that be fun. And they want me to buy the whole game over again  just to see it in VR? Hard NO!
 
2018-10-12 12:38:22 PM  

Slybri: somedude210: Beta Tested: They were on the right track with Rebirth, they just bungled the detailed designs and execution.

Have you played Rebirth since it's been patched? I'm told it's far better now than at launch (as it is with Egosoft), but I haven't gotten around to playing it.

I tried playing it again a few months ago, from my couch with a gamepad.  The ship is just so damn slow!  Having to hold down the throttle button to slowly move forward while squeezing the stick down to boost and boost and boost... it was instantly tedious. Like swimming through syrup. And having to scan every part of all those stations... ugh. I was thinking of trying the VR version but no... not even in VR would that be fun. And they want me to buy the whole game over again  just to see it in VR? Hard NO!


the Evochron series is pretty good alternative to X series. it's made by one guy who periodically puts out a new version of the game. It's complicated like X3 but a bit easier to get into.
 
2018-10-12 2:13:02 PM  

Slybri: I tried playing it again a few months ago, from my couch with a gamepad.  The ship is just so damn slow!  Having to hold down the throttle button to slowly move forward while squeezing the stick down to boost and boost and boost... it was instantly tedious. Like swimming through syrup. And having to scan every part of all those stations... ugh. I was thinking of trying the VR version but no... not even in VR would that be fun. And they want me to buy the whole game over again  just to see it in VR? Hard NO!


The fundamental problem is that they don't have a cohesive design vision for their games.  They have a bunch of ideas for systems, mechanics, techniques and visuals but they don't know how to edit and arrange them in a self-reinforcing way.

They get bogged down in insignificant details like programming drone harvesting AI without asking themselves why the game needs such a finicky error prone harvesting system when something much more simple and robust would be just as meaningful for the player.  This happens all across the game with the net result being a game that is unnecessarily complicated and therefore fragile.  Such pointlessly fragile worlds break easily without imbuing them with the kinds of interesting and meaningful decisions players need.

It is quite clearly a game designed by programmers that like to program interesting things, which rarely makes a good game.  They desperately need a good and experienced design director to forge their ideas into actual gameplay.  I am not confident that they even realize this and thus have no faith that X4 will have actually gone anywhere worth my time.
 
2018-10-12 2:16:31 PM  
Public transit is a big deal?  I was missing the airship to Kazham before subby was born.

"GDI! I just want to go fishing and now I have to wait 10 minutes or pay a greedy farken white-mage to teleport me.

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2018-10-12 6:47:05 PM  
A relative of mine worked for Cloud Imperium for a couple years.  According to him the problems with the game's development start with the word 'Chris' and end with the word 'Roberts.'  He called the man, "the Dunningest Krugerian I've ever met" whose micromanagement of things he doesn't understand and constantly shifting, often cluelessly impossible demands were acting as sand in the gears.  He also said every time Chris got in front of a camera the devs would groan because he'd start waving his hands around and promising a dozen new features or mechanics, none of which had even been sketched on a napkin by anyone else.

He left last year though so now who knows.
 
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