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(Yahoo)   Guess which city is number one in income inequality in America. Hint: They hosted an Olympics and are known for dirty birds   ( ca.finance.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Economic inequality, U.S. Census Bureau, greatest income disparity, Dunn/Getty Images Atlanta, New Orleans, Metropolitan Policy Program, Delta Air Lines, minimum population requirement  
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9709 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Oct 2018 at 10:50 AM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



125 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-10-11 09:47:10 AM  
I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/a​rti​cles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 10:26:22 AM  

elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]


Was that a bad thing? Should they not have done that?
 
2018-10-11 10:51:49 AM  
Is dirty bird a sports reference or a slang for hot chicken?
 
2018-10-11 10:51:51 AM  
They're talking about the difference between megachurch leaders and their sheep flock, right?
 
2018-10-11 10:55:34 AM  
I'd be interested in seeing the entire list
 
2018-10-11 10:57:27 AM  

stuhayes2010: Is dirty bird a sports reference or a slang for hot chicken?


I was like pleasedontbelondon pleasedontbelondon ... oh thank dog
 
2018-10-11 10:58:10 AM  
Huh. I would have guessed Beijing, because of the
img.fark.netView Full Size

Or maybe Rio, because of the
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 11:00:43 AM  

stuhayes2010: Is dirty bird a sports reference or a slang for hot chicken?


Hot chicks?
 
2018-10-11 11:03:50 AM  
And here I was thinking "Athens, Greece" or "Sochi, Russia".  Atlanta?  Hmm...okay.
 
2018-10-11 11:06:37 AM  
The home of several Fortune 500 companies, including Delta Air Lines Inc. and Coca-Cola Co., Atlanta boasts extreme wealth, with many executives earning top-dollar salaries.

.
The argument against inequality in Atlanta demands that those companies pick up and move elsewhere.
 
2018-10-11 11:07:53 AM  
No matter how rich you are in Atlanta, you're still in Atlanta.
 
2018-10-11 11:08:19 AM  
"Every city has some of these economic extremes. Atlanta just has them in spades"
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 11:08:52 AM  
London?
 
2018-10-11 11:09:06 AM  

kyleaugustus: And here I was thinking "Athens, Greece" or "Sochi, Russia".  Atlanta?  Hmm...okay.


I thought it was Beijing.
 
2018-10-11 11:12:14 AM  

fireclown: No matter how rich you are in Atlanta, you're still in Atlanta.


Atlanta is a great city, what are you talking about?
 
2018-10-11 11:12:31 AM  

elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]


I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.
 
2018-10-11 11:16:11 AM  

kyleaugustus: And here I was thinking "Athens, Greece" or "Sochi, Russia".  Atlanta?  Hmm...okay.


TFA headline specifies within the U.S.   There are a few more criteria noted within the body of the article, (Populations of at least 250,000)

But as others have noticed, there are a few wealthy corporations headquartered in Atlanta while there is a large population living at sub poverty levels in the inner city areas.  Lets just say, there is a reason the Atlanta Braves chose to relocate to the northern suburbs last year.
 
2018-10-11 11:17:52 AM  
Dirty birds ... Santa Barbara?

Houston?

Bolsa Chica?

Butte Creek?

Buzzard's Bay?

/clearly, we haven't learned anything except how deep oil companys' pockets are
//kinda sorta started to make this funny
///now just kinda sorta heartsick
 
2018-10-11 11:22:41 AM  
Boston wouldn't be #1 in inequality, but I bet it's not far off.
 
2018-10-11 11:24:27 AM  
Not a bit surprised.
We should change the motto to "Go Be Poor Somewhere Else".
 
2018-10-11 11:27:54 AM  
The Main tab feels too serious and drab this morning...more goofy greenlights please!
 
2018-10-11 11:28:24 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 11:33:59 AM  

bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.


Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street
 
2018-10-11 11:34:19 AM  
Not surprised. It's the South. If anyone knows about owners and workers, it's them.
 
2018-10-11 11:34:19 AM  
well....
 
2018-10-11 11:37:53 AM  
Bloomberg ranked large cities -- those with populations of at least 250,000 -- based on the Gini coefficient as calculated by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Cocoa Beach has the best Gini coefficient among small towns.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 11:38:06 AM  
So...was this just for the city itself, or did the study include the entire Metro areas? I would think that would make a GIGANTIC difference in Atlanta, since the city actually only includes about 20% of the Metro population...
 
2018-10-11 11:39:05 AM  
Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!
 
2018-10-11 11:39:30 AM  

Snarfangel: Bloomberg ranked large cities -- those with populations of at least 250,000 -- based on the Gini coefficient as calculated by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Cocoa Beach has the best Gini coefficient among small towns.
[img.fark.net image 474x355]


Looks like his Gini coefficient is growing...
 
2018-10-11 11:40:16 AM  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: The home of several Fortune 500 companies, including Delta Air Lines Inc. and Coca-Cola Co., Atlanta boasts extreme wealth, with many executives earning top-dollar salaries.

.
The argument against inequality in Atlanta demands that those companies pick up and move elsewhere.


img.fark.netView Full Size

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 11:41:26 AM  
I would have guessed Salt Lake City because Mormon housewives don't generally have to work and because our state bird eats garbage.
d2v9y0dukr6mq2.cloudfront.netView Full Size
/The Bald Eagle? He's their husband
 
2018-10-11 11:42:42 AM  
Lady J:I was like pleasedontbelondon pleasedontbelondon ... oh thank dog

I totally thought it was London.

Olympics? Check
Wealth gap between homeless beggars and the Queen? Big Check
Damn pigeons? Biggest check of all.
 
2018-10-11 11:43:58 AM  
 
2018-10-11 11:44:43 AM  
They are probably counting the poor souls stuck in our airport.
 
2018-10-11 11:45:26 AM  
So, according to the survey, a city where 9.3% of households make less than $10,000 a year and 18% make more than $150,000 a year is worse than New Orleans, where 15.1% make less than $10,000 a year and 9.1% make more than $150,000 a year?

That seems pretty backwards. A city where there are more poor people than rich people is more equal than a city where there are more rich people than poor people?

It sounds more and more like the design of the Gini coefficient is to pretend it's better to have everyone poor than to have most people not-poor.
 
2018-10-11 11:45:28 AM  

Eskurido: Lady J:I was like pleasedontbelondon pleasedontbelondon ... oh thank dog

I totally thought it was London.

Olympics? Check
Wealth gap between homeless beggars and the Queen? Big Check
Damn pigeons? Biggest check of all.


They don't have homeless beggars, they have "rough sleepers."
 
2018-10-11 11:46:01 AM  

ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 11:46:31 AM  

elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street


I moved to Smith after my first quarter, then to a fraternity for sophomore year on.  Went back last year for 40th reunion, barely recognized the place.
 
2018-10-11 11:48:56 AM  
Atlanta... the San Francisco of the South. Been doing  the gentrification waltz since the 80s. Prices get too high in popular neighborhood, the nearly rich start buying up poor neighborhoods and pushing the poor out.
 
2018-10-11 11:53:37 AM  

bighairyguy: elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street

I moved to Smith after my first quarter, then to a fraternity for sophomore year on.  Went back last year for 40th reunion, barely recognized the place.


A graduated in early 90s ... so just missed all the crazy construction.

Moved back to Atlanta in 95 for a year ... then escaped to NC
 
2018-10-11 11:54:27 AM  

ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!


For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?
 
2018-10-11 11:55:27 AM  

elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street


Our daughter was a resident of Brown town. Her dorm room had a great view into the end zone at Bobby Dodd.
 
2018-10-11 12:05:23 PM  

kyleaugustus: And here I was thinking "Athens, Greece" or "Sochi, Russia".  Atlanta?  Hmm...okay.


Note that this is a US only list (although you wouldn't know that from the Fark headline).
 
2018-10-11 12:06:01 PM  

elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street


I helped build the Coca-Cola building The CCE one. And that was a not very good area.
 
2018-10-11 12:07:56 PM  

camaroash: I would have guessed Salt Lake City because Mormon housewives don't generally have to work and because our state bird eats garbage.
[d2v9y0dukr6mq2.cloudfront.net image 850x478]/The Bald Eagle? He's their husband


Maybe one of the wives don't have to work, but what about the other 4?
 
2018-10-11 12:09:12 PM  
Hotlanta also ranks worst in heat and humidity.
 
2018-10-11 12:12:06 PM  

ChadM89: ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!

For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?


If I may chime in. It's a useless metric when you completely ignore individual behavior.
 
2018-10-11 12:17:47 PM  
Been there once.  A couple friends and myself were visiting the "Underground" back in 71. Met some charming southern belles at one of the bars. When asked if we'd ever been to Atlanta before our replies were we had passed through but never stopped. One of the belles was all " Never stopped?! Oh but everybody stops in Atalanta.  Just everybody!"  To which my unthinking reply was " Sherman didn't".  My Buddies were not best pleased. Never got invited as a wing man again.  /csb
 
2018-10-11 12:18:52 PM  
bing.comView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 12:19:41 PM  
Send in the tanks.

Shermans if you got them
 
2018-10-11 12:19:45 PM  

stuhayes2010: Is dirty bird a sports reference or a slang for hot chicken?


Nickname for the Atlanta Falcons.
 
2018-10-11 12:20:31 PM  
So it rocketed from #25 in 2014 to #1 in 2018, somehow I doubt that.
 
2018-10-11 12:21:04 PM  

big pig peaches: ChadM89: ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!

For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?

If I may chime in. It's a useless metric when you completely ignore individual behavior.


It is a useless metric when all you look at is that metric.
 
2018-10-11 12:26:34 PM  

cirby: So, according to the survey, a city where 9.3% of households make less than $10,000 a year and 18% make more than $150,000 a year is worse than New Orleans, where 15.1% make less than $10,000 a year and 9.1% make more than $150,000 a year?

That seems pretty backwards. A city where there are more poor people than rich people is more equal than a city where there are more rich people than poor people?

It sounds more and more like the design of the Gini coefficient is to pretend it's better to have everyone poor than to have most people not-poor.


Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss.  So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".
 
2018-10-11 12:28:50 PM  

Snarfangel: Eskurido: Lady J:I was like pleasedontbelondon pleasedontbelondon ... oh thank dog

I totally thought it was London.

Olympics? Check
Wealth gap between homeless beggars and the Queen? Big Check
Damn pigeons? Biggest check of all.

They don't have homeless beggars, they have "rough sleepers."

unfortunates.
 
2018-10-11 12:30:40 PM  

Stephen_Falken: [img.fark.net image 400x188]


Yooooo! I haven't seen that cartoon in YEARS! I am looking for the one with the elf who was being bullied by Santa Claus! Was it "sick and twisted?"


/hahahahaaaaaa
//BRILLIANT!
 
2018-10-11 12:36:01 PM  

shut_it_down: kyleaugustus: And here I was thinking "Athens, Greece" or "Sochi, Russia".  Atlanta?  Hmm...okay.

I thought it was Beijing.


All incomes are equal in Beijing.
Some are more equal than others.
 
2018-10-11 12:38:50 PM  
Athens?
 
2018-10-11 12:43:35 PM  
I lived in an apartment overlooking Piedmont Park, while learning my trade as a surgical tech.

Rode MARTA to work, took my lunch in a local diner. Enjoyed the autopsies ...
 
2018-10-11 12:43:47 PM  
Dirty birds?
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 12:46:53 PM  
Should change the headline to include "in the U.S."

/ I'd be more interested to see an income disparity chart of the world's cities.  If you've traveled you know what I mean.
// but for that MSN.com would have to hire real journalists that don't just parrot info from other sources.
/// & if it was their own material then MSN also wouldn't have to give you links to go to the full article.
 
2018-10-11 12:56:22 PM  
atlanta is a bad place, and they've worked hard to make it that way.
this is what they wanted, who am I to question the dumbass will of the people
 
2018-10-11 12:59:13 PM  

camaroash: I would have guessed Salt Lake City because Mormon housewives don't generally have to work and because our state bird eats garbage.
[d2v9y0dukr6mq2.cloudfront.net image 850x478]/The Bald Eagle? He's their husband


i.imgflip.comView Full Size

You're not allowed to call them Mormons any more!
 
2018-10-11 01:11:39 PM  

Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".


Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?
 
2018-10-11 01:14:54 PM  

cirby: So, according to the survey, a city where 9.3% of households make less than $10,000 a year and 18% make more than $150,000 a year is worse than New Orleans, where 15.1% make less than $10,000 a year and 9.1% make more than $150,000 a year?

That seems pretty backwards. A city where there are more poor people than rich people is more equal than a city where there are more rich people than poor people?

It sounds more and more like the design of the Gini coefficient is to pretend it's better to have everyone poor than to have most people not-poor.


Gini has limitations and can't be used to definitively say a place is 'good' or 'bad'. It's just a measure of income distribution. It can be used effectively and in this case, if you RTFA, you would find that it was.

It should be agreeable that with a given amount of wealth one might find in a major American city, extreme income inequality levels are objectively bad. Wealth exists there, but has not trickled down. Vast populations of impoverished citizens will need more and more assistance to live and will be raising children in conditions that don't promote their future success. Those who would spend almost every dollar they have stimulating the local economy don't have that money to spend. A strong middle class should be the engine that powers an economy. A strong lower class can too if given the chance.

Atlanta, my suburban hometown's anchor, and Georgia generally, have an awful track record of doing anything to support the success or economic mobility of the poor. They do however, have a history of actively working against their best interest with school funding schemes, public transportation/non-automotive infrastructure decisions, health care access, police discrimination, fighting minimum wage increases, worker's rights, institutional discrimination, etc. On top of that, it is a model commuter city so workers with good jobs spend their money in suburban areas. Topping the Gini Coefficient of major American cities just draws attention to Georgia and Atlanta's long list of failures. It should be no surprise the Georgia and Metro ATL governments also top most national lists for corruption and are near the top for poor economic mobility.
 
2018-10-11 01:43:25 PM  

ChadM89: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".

Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?


Sure, we could discuss how the Gini Cofficient doesn't count debt or negative wealth and how that skews the measure.  We could also discuss how it doesn't really factor in time so it completely leaves out growth rate and whether people that were once in the bottom half of the scale have now transited into the upper part of the scale to indicate is that bad or good.  I would love to go on but then I would be TL;DR and I suspect you weren't really interested in that discussion or you would have brought up your own points instead of trying to get me to further your interests.
 
2018-10-11 01:52:06 PM  

cirby: So, according to the survey, a city where 9.3% of households make less than $10,000 a year and 18% make more than $150,000 a year is worse than New Orleans, where 15.1% make less than $10,000 a year and 9.1% make more than $150,000 a year?

That seems pretty backwards. A city where there are more poor people than rich people is more equal than a city where there are more rich people than poor people?

It sounds more and more like the design of the Gini coefficient is to pretend it's better to have everyone poor than to have most people not-poor.


Exactly.
 
2018-10-11 01:52:29 PM  
I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr here but at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.

About 56,000 State workers were just kicked off State mandated insurance (I know 4, two have families that were on plan, new insurance will cost more [2 said fark it I'll save my money and hope] they all have chronic medical needs (meds mostly) and can't see their Dr.s and will nave to travel as far as 80 miles round trip to see new Dr accepting new plan). There won't be much room to argue when people say Georgia is a sh*thole, well it really will be at this rate of constant R-Derp cuts to basic needs.
 
2018-10-11 01:52:58 PM  

AnnoyingBuzz: Atlanta... the San Francisco of the South. Been doing  the gentrification waltz since the 80s. Prices get too high in popular neighborhood, the nearly rich start buying up poor neighborhoods and pushing the poor out.


Good. Gentrification is not a bad thing. I am sick of people treating it like some evil plot.
 
2018-10-11 01:53:40 PM  

ChadM89: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".

Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?


It's really not all that complicated - why don't you ask a high school teacher in Atlanta public schools what sort of challenges they're facing preparing their students to succeed in the adult world of employment, personal responsibility & discipline, and social decency?
/Or just completely remove all expectations on able-bodied adults to care for themselves and their children, confiscate more money from the taxpayers and empty out their investment accounts, and then raise welfare payouts to the parasitic deadbeats to put them on par with the working income earned by the nerdy vanilla squares so everybody can feel equal and have all the nice things that used to incentivize maturity, sacrifice, and responsibility?
 
2018-10-11 01:56:41 PM  
So Atlanta has more successful people than other cities?
 
2018-10-11 01:59:52 PM  

mrwknd: I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr here but at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.


actually, all companies that are in compliance with the law pay $7.25/hr.  If the Fed says it's $7.25, it's that at the least in every state.  It's how our system of government works.
 
2018-10-11 02:02:19 PM  

DiggityDynomite: ChadM89: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".

Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

It's really not all that complicated - why don't you ask a high school teacher in Atlanta public schools what sort of challenges they're facing preparing their students to succeed in the adult world of employment, personal responsibility & discipline, and social decency?
/Or just completely remove all expectations on able-bodied adults to care for themselves and their children, confiscate more money from the taxpayers and empty out their investment accounts, and then raise welfare payouts to the parasitic deadbeats to put them on par with the working income earned by the nerdy vanilla squares so everybody can feel equal and have all the nice things that used to incentivize maturity, sacrifice, and responsibility?


So, you want to  discuss politics then?
 
2018-10-11 02:05:42 PM  

Magnus: ChadM89: Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

Sure, we could discuss how the Gini Cofficient doesn't count debt or negative wealth and how that skews the measure.  We could also discuss how it doesn't really factor in time so it completely leaves out growth rate and whether people that were once in the bottom half of the scale have now transited into the upper part of the scale to indicate is that bad or good.  I would love to go on but then I would be TL;DR and I suspect you weren't really interested in that discussion or you would have brought up your own points instead of trying to get me to further your interests.


Oh that's not true. I admit to not being an expert on the topic. I'm a 40-something with a job, a house I'm fixing up, a lady and hobbies. It doesn't leave me a lot of time to drill down and do a lot of research on specific topics that lay outside my field of professional expertise or that relate to my personal interests.

I do have a general interest in our society being better, being as good as it can be, and I do understand enough about economics and society in general to understand that income/wealth inequality is a bad thing though, so I tend to drop into threads like this in order to learn things, even if by osmosis.

You came across as someone speaking as if they had a high level of knowledge on the subject, yet in your comments you were not actually offering information or presenting arguments, so much as you were simply stating that everyone else wasn't thinking about it the right way. Thus my asking you what those right ways should be.

You made a point about people transferring from the low end of the scale into the upper end of the scale. Knowing what we do about the nature of wealth concentration, the rate at which it's worsening and the conditions that allow it, I'm curious that you would bring that up in such a way as to suggest that people move from the bottom to the top at a rate that could be considered statistically significant.
 
2018-10-11 02:12:45 PM  

cirby: So, according to the survey, a city where 9.3% of households make less than $10,000 a year and 18% make more than $150,000 a year is worse than New Orleans, where 15.1% make less than $10,000 a year and 9.1% make more than $150,000 a year?

That seems pretty backwards. A city where there are more poor people than rich people is more equal than a city where there are more rich people than poor people?


So in other words, you don't understand how data curves work?   It's not backwards at all.  The entire point of the Gini coefficient is to quantify the ways in which the curve is NOT bell-shaped.

"Poor"  vs. "rich" is not defined by "people making <$10K" vs. "people making >$150K".   That's just one slice of the histogram.  Those Atlanta numbers could have 80% making less than $20K (which is below poverty level for a 3-person household), 18% super-wealthy, and 2% in the middle, which would be extremely unequal.  New Orleans could be 5.8% higher in extreme poverty, but also have much larger middle class, which would lower the Gini value significantly.

It sounds more and more like the design of the Gini coefficient is to pretend it's better to have everyone poor than to have most people not-poor.

The Gini coeeficient measures income inequality.  It doesn't purport to be a catch-all measure of the quality of a society.  Only idiot neoliberals think that any criticism of income inequality is somehow antithetical to a strong economy.
 
2018-10-11 02:13:26 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Exactly


Exactly wrong. actually.
 
2018-10-11 02:14:22 PM  
Magnus

mrwknd: I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr herebut at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.

actually, all companies that are in compliance with the law pay $7.25/hr.  If the Fed says it's $7.25, it's that at the least in every state.  It's how our system of government works.


Yes, but that doesn't mean Georgia State Law must change what's on their books now at $5.15hr to $7.25hr. Does Georgia have the lowest minimum wage in the country ... . This is still the "South", and some people will still work for that amount because they're desperate, and yes most cases it would be under the table anyway.


/not enough of us goddamned Yankees moved down here yet to make real improvements...
 
2018-10-11 02:14:38 PM  

Magnus: DiggityDynomite: ChadM89: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".

Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

It's really not all that complicated - why don't you ask a high school teacher in Atlanta public schools what sort of challenges they're facing preparing their students to succeed in the adult world of employment, personal responsibility & discipline, and social decency?
/Or just completely remove all expectations on able-bodied adults to care for themselves and their children, confiscate more money from the taxpayers and empty out their investment accounts, and then raise welfare payouts to the parasitic deadbeats to put them on par with the working income earned by the nerdy vanilla squares so everybody can feel equal and have all the nice things that used to incentivize maturity, sacrifice, and responsibility?

So, you want to  discuss politics then?


No, but thank you for asking. Do you politicize every topic relevant to income disparities?
 
2018-10-11 02:19:07 PM  

Magnus: mrwknd: I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr here but at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.

actually, all companies that are in compliance with the law pay $7.25/hr.  If the Fed says it's $7.25, it's that at the least in every state.  It's how our system of government works.


I'm surprised there's someone who doesn't know that.  The only people who are paid less than that are waitstaff, and Puerto Rico (because they self govern themselves).  Which I'm all for waitstaff exemption to be removed and we put away the nonsense that their pay comes directly from the customer.  Tipping should go back to for extra service, not standard or substandard service.
 
2018-10-11 02:19:22 PM  

Magnus: big pig peaches: ChadM89: ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!

For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?

If I may chime in. It's a useless metric when you completely ignore individual behavior.

It is a useless metric when all you look at is that metric.


A high degree of wealth/income inequality by itself is a good indicator that something is wrong with an economy.  It's just not a very good window on its own into exactly what is wrong.
 
2018-10-11 02:20:06 PM  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: The home of several Fortune 500 companies, including Delta Air Lines Inc. and Coca-Cola Co., Atlanta boasts extreme wealth, with many executives earning top-dollar salaries.

.
The argument against inequality in Atlanta demands that those companies pick up and move elsewhere.


Income inequality as a single data point is useless.
 
2018-10-11 02:22:10 PM  

DiggityDynomite: Do you politicize every topic relevant to income disparities?


*snert*
 
2018-10-11 02:22:54 PM  

American-Irish eyes: sex_and_drugs_for_ian: The home of several Fortune 500 companies, including Delta Air Lines Inc. and Coca-Cola Co., Atlanta boasts extreme wealth, with many executives earning top-dollar salaries.

.
The argument against inequality in Atlanta demands that those companies pick up and move elsewhere.

Income inequality as a single data point is useless.


No it isn't.
 
2018-10-11 02:35:38 PM  

bighairyguy: elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street

I moved to Smith after my first quarter, then to a fraternity for sophomore year on.  Went back last year for 40th reunion, barely recognized the place.


I lived in Smith in '73 and '74. Not fond memories except for the ones involving flying biscuits in Brittany Dining Hall.
 
2018-10-11 02:38:34 PM  

DiggityDynomite: Magnus: DiggityDynomite: ChadM89: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".

Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

It's really not all that complicated - why don't you ask a high school teacher in Atlanta public schools what sort of challenges they're facing preparing their students to succeed in the adult world of employment, personal responsibility & discipline, and social decency?
/Or just completely remove all expectations on able-bodied adults to care for themselves and their children, confiscate more money from the taxpayers and empty out their investment accounts, and then raise welfare payouts to the parasitic deadbeats to put them on par with the working income earned by the nerdy vanilla squares so everybody can feel equal and have all the nice things that used to incentivize maturity, sacrifice, and responsibility?

So, you want to  discuss politics then?

No, but thank you for asking. Do you politicize every topic relevant to income disparities?


Actually, I do not.  In fact I avoid discussing politics.  I also try to avoid adding emotionally charged language.
 
2018-10-11 02:38:57 PM  

Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.


You can't spell "stigginit" without "gini".
 
2018-10-11 02:42:30 PM  

Z-clipped: Magnus: big pig peaches: ChadM89: ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!

For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?

If I may chime in. It's a useless metric when you completely ignore individual behavior.

It is a useless metric when all you look at is that metric.

A high degree of wealth/income inequality by itself is a good indicator that something is wrong with an economy.  It's just not a very good window on its own into exactly what is wrong.


It is an indicator.  Good or bad is debatable.
 
2018-10-11 02:46:34 PM  

mrwknd: Magnus

mrwknd: I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr herebut at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.

actually, all companies that are in compliance with the law pay $7.25/hr.  If the Fed says it's $7.25, it's that at the least in every state.  It's how our system of government works.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Georgia State Law must change what's on their books now at $5.15hr to $7.25hr. Does Georgia have the lowest minimum wage in the country ... . This is still the "South", and some people will still work for that amount because they're desperate, and yes most cases it would be under the table anyway.


/not enough of us goddamned Yankees moved down here yet to make real improvements...


???  That's exactly what a Federal system means.
 
2018-10-11 02:47:09 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.

You can't spell "stigginit" without "gini".


LOL.
 
2018-10-11 02:51:34 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2018-10-11 02:54:13 PM  

lack of warmth: Magnus: mrwknd: I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr here but at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.

actually, all companies that are in compliance with the law pay $7.25/hr.  If the Fed says it's $7.25, it's that at the least in every state.  It's how our system of government works.

I'm surprised there's someone who doesn't know that.  The only people who are paid less than that are waitstaff, and Puerto Rico (because they self govern themselves).  Which I'm all for waitstaff exemption to be removed and we put away the nonsense that their pay comes directly from the customer.  Tipping should go back to for extra service, not standard or substandard service.


There are exemptions for students and workers under 18(? maybe lower) as well.
 
2018-10-11 03:33:35 PM  
The best solution to income inequality is to get off your ass, and get to work improving yourself and your family.  Victimhood and reliance on the government isn't the answer.

"Give a Man a fish and he'll eat for a day"
"Teach a Man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime"
"Promise a Man another man's fish, and you've created a Democrat"
 
2018-10-11 03:36:46 PM  

Magnus: DiggityDynomite: Magnus: DiggityDynomite: ChadM89: Magnus: Exactly.  Gini Coefficient is only an indicator of a direction to look and can not be taken as one number by which to measure something.  The underlying information is far more important to discuss. So, if someone comes in and  says, "oh ATL is #1 in income/wealth disparity, that's a problem" I like to direct them to the politics tab because that's the only thing they can discuss.  They have very little brain power left to discuss anything other than "us v. them".

Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

It's really not all that complicated - why don't you ask a high school teacher in Atlanta public schools what sort of challenges they're facing preparing their students to succeed in the adult world of employment, personal responsibility & discipline, and social decency?
/Or just completely remove all expectations on able-bodied adults to care for themselves and their children, confiscate more money from the taxpayers and empty out their investment accounts, and then raise welfare payouts to the parasitic deadbeats to put them on par with the working income earned by the nerdy vanilla squares so everybody can feel equal and have all the nice things that used to incentivize maturity, sacrifice, and responsibility?

So, you want to  discuss politics then?

No, but thank you for asking. Do you politicize every topic relevant to income disparities?

Actually, I do not.  In fact I avoid discussing politics.  I also try to avoid adding emotionally charged language.


Okay, it sounded like you were implying that I was trying to discuss politics. I guess I don't understand the premise of your question, although I did answer it. Fair enough, good talk!
 
2018-10-11 04:08:19 PM  

filetofish bigmac quarter pounder with cheese: The best solution to income inequality is to get off your ass, and get to work improving yourself and your family.  Victimhood and reliance on the government isn't the answer.

"Give a Man a fish and he'll eat for a day"
"Teach a Man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime"
"Promise a Man another man's fish, and you've created a Democrat"


Conservative version:

1. Pretend to teach everyone to fish.
2. Restrict all the best fishing areas and equipment to white male fishermen.
3. Claim anyone who doesn't catch anything is lazy, and throw them in prison.
4. Give 98% of the fish to one "deserving" rich guy in return for rotting table scraps, as long as he makes sure women, brown people, and gays get none.
 
2018-10-11 04:10:51 PM  

flamark: bighairyguy: elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street

I moved to Smith after my first quarter, then to a fraternity for sophomore year on.  Went back last year for 40th reunion, barely recognized the place.

I lived in Smith in '73 and '74. Not fond memories except for the ones involving flying biscuits in Brittany Dining Hall.


The loud crashing noises and bottle rocket explosions you heard in winter and spring 1974 were me.
 
2018-10-11 04:13:13 PM  

Magnus: Z-clipped: Magnus: big pig peaches: ChadM89: ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!

For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?

If I may chime in. It's a useless metric when you completely ignore individual behavior.

It is a useless metric when all you look at is that metric.

A high degree of wealth/income inequality by itself is a good indicator that something is wrong with an economy.  It's just not a very good window on its own into exactly what is wrong.

It is an indicator.  Good or bad is debatable.


No. Whether Gini is a good metric for inequality might be debatable, but high wealth/income inequality is bad for a society, period.  Anyone who claims otherwise is either an idiot, or a sociopath.
 
2018-10-11 04:14:21 PM  

Z-clipped: 1. Pretend to teach everyone to fish.


We now have this thing called the internet.
It has a lot of information on it.
Why is it anybody's (read white guys) responsibility to "teach" somebody else (read minorities) to fish?
Are you suggesting they are not capability of self-learning?
 
2018-10-11 04:16:01 PM  

filetofish bigmac quarter pounder with cheese: The best solution to income inequality is to get off your ass, and get to work improving yourself and your family.


Get the hell out of here with your common sense, can't you see there are scholars trying to plot data and interpret the results rather than looking at the actual *individuals* that the data represents?
/Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.
//Teach a man to subjectively interpret statistics and he'll spend his lifetime making excuses for the man uwilling to learn to fish.
 
2018-10-11 05:04:57 PM  

bighairyguy: flamark: bighairyguy: elkboy: bighairyguy: elkboy: I was there when they bulldozed the Techwood area:

From : https://m.georgiaencyclopedia.org/ar​ticles/arts-culture/techwood-homes

[img.fark.net image 422x750]

I lived Techwood dorm in 1973.  Word was it had failed to meet code for 15 years, was condemned and supposed to be demolished but they really really needed the rooms.

Bet it was still better than the Techwood  projects housing.

/closest I lived was Brown across the street

I moved to Smith after my first quarter, then to a fraternity for sophomore year on.  Went back last year for 40th reunion, barely recognized the place.

I lived in Smith in '73 and '74. Not fond memories except for the ones involving flying biscuits in Brittany Dining Hall.

The loud crashing noises and bottle rocket explosions you heard in winter and spring 1974 were me.


I seem to remember that as part of the whole insane noise scene at the time. What bothered me most was the idiots who started banging on the steel pipes at 2 in the morning during the winter. Someone finally clued me in that that was the steam heat and the radiators in the room expanding. I stopped complaining about noises after that. Never ask stupid questions at an engineering college.
 
2018-10-11 05:55:02 PM  

ChadM89: Magnus: ChadM89: Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

Sure, we could discuss how the Gini Cofficient doesn't count debt or negative wealth and how that skews the measure.  We could also discuss how it doesn't really factor in time so it completely leaves out growth rate and whether people that were once in the bottom half of the scale have now transited into the upper part of the scale to indicate is that bad or good.  I would love to go on but then I would be TL;DR and I suspect you weren't really interested in that discussion or you would have brought up your own points instead of trying to get me to further your interests.

Oh that's not true. I admit to not being an expert on the topic. I'm a 40-something with a job, a house I'm fixing up, a lady and hobbies. It doesn't leave me a lot of time to drill down and do a lot of research on specific topics that lay outside my field of professional expertise or that relate to my personal interests.



Agreed.  I too am ignorant on the topic, have never heard of the "Gini Coefficient", and wished to know more.

Dude just kinda murdered that discussion.
 
2018-10-11 06:22:51 PM  

mr lawson: Why is it anybody's responsibility to teach" somebody else


Hark!  What's that I hear?.... I believe it's the mating cry of the Common Libertarian, taxonomically known as Oblivionus Priviligedon!  Watch how he stalks the low-hanging fruit, completely unaware of the advantages conferred on him by his daddy's genetic structure and financial standing....
 
2018-10-11 06:33:55 PM  

Z-clipped: No. Whether Gini is a good metric for inequality might be debatable, but high wealth/income inequality is bad for a society, period.  Anyone who claims otherwise is either an idiot, or a sociopath.


That means it's better to have everyone be poor than half of people doing well.  It also means that it's bad to lift some people out of poverty if you can't lift the entire world population out at once.  Even as a libby lib, I just don't how that's even close to remotely rational.  Sorry.
 
2018-10-11 07:06:03 PM  

punkwrestler: camaroash: I would have guessed Salt Lake City because Mormon housewives don't generally have to work and because our state bird eats garbage.
[d2v9y0dukr6mq2.cloudfront.net image 850x478]/The Bald Eagle? He's their husband

Maybe one of the wives don't have to work, but what about the other 4?


Oh they still work... but getting paid for that kind of work is only legal in Nevada.

BTW, the blurry seagull flying toward the camera is a grown daughter setting out on her own... for a BYU Superdate.
 
2018-10-11 07:07:31 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: That means it's better to have everyone be poor than half of people doing well.


Incorrect.  "Half the people doing well" is not a description of high income/wealth disparity in this context, and 1% of America owning 40% of the nation's wealth is definitely not "Half the people doing well".

ThrobblefootSpectre: It also means that it's bad to lift some people out of poverty if you can't lift the entire world population out at once.


This is such a ridiculous reductio ad absurdum that it's not only not right- it isn't even coherent enough to be wrong.  Try your strawmen on someone else.  I'm not falling for them.
 
2018-10-11 07:16:57 PM  

Z-clipped: This is such a ridiculous reductio ad absurdum that it's not only not right- it isn't even coherent enough to be wrong.  Try your strawmen on someone else.  I'm not falling for them.


It's your strawman.  Your the one who made the absurd claim.

Look at it this way.  Say we have an area (not necessarily in the U.S.) where almost everyone is poor.  The government (of wherever) introduces vocational training for adults and improved education for children.  Ten years later 50% of people are doing better economically, but income inequality, pretty much by definition, has increased.  I would say this is a good thing.  Are you claiming what happened to this area was bad?  IMO, only an ignorant sociopath would say it's bad that 50% of people are now doing well.
 
2018-10-11 07:45:35 PM  

Z-clipped: cirby: So, according to the survey, a city where 9.3% of households make less than $10,000 a year and 18% make more than $150,000 a year is worse than New Orleans, where 15.1% make less than $10,000 a year and 9.1% make more than $150,000 a year?

That seems pretty backwards. A city where there are more poor people than rich people is more equal than a city where there are more rich people than poor people?

So in other words, you don't understand how data curves work?   It's not backwards at all.  The entire point of the Gini coefficient is to quantify the ways in which the curve is NOT bell-shaped.

"Poor"  vs. "rich" is not defined by "people making <$10K" vs. "people making >$150K".   That's just one slice of the histogram.  Those Atlanta numbers could have 80% making less than $20K (which is below poverty level for a 3-person household), 18% super-wealthy, and 2% in the middle, which would be extremely unequal.  New Orleans could be 5.8% higher in extreme poverty, but also have much larger middle class, which would lower the Gini value significantly.


Those numbers "could" say what you suggest, but they don't.

If you have only 9.3% of households making less than $10,000 a year, it's nearly impossible to bend the income curve enough to make that many people earn just over that number.

Meanwhile, San Francisco, with its INSANE levels of economic inequality (and crazy cost of living, to the point where a "middle class" income is actually poor) actually has a better showing, and anyone who's been there knows better.
 
2018-10-11 07:50:19 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Are you claiming what happened to this area was bad?


One more time, since you seem to have diminished reading comprehension:

My claim is that high wealth/income inequality is a symptom of problems in an economy.  This is not that same as saying "any income inequality is worse than 100% poverty", and frankly, only a farking idiot would infer the second statement from the first.

The only question that remains is, are you disingenuously pretending to be this stupid, or are you actually this stupid?
 
2018-10-11 07:51:32 PM  

Z-clipped: ThrobblefootSpectre: That means it's better to have everyone be poor than half of people doing well.

Incorrect.  "Half the people doing well" is not a description of high income/wealth disparity in this context, and 1% of America owning 40% of the nation's wealth is definitely not "Half the people doing well".


A country where EVERYONE makes $1 a day has a perfect "1" on the Gini scale

A country with 1% poor people, 9% not-so-poor people, 80% well-off people, 9% rich-to-stinking-rich people, and 1% crazy-rich people, would have a much lower one. That's just math.

...and which country would you prefer to live in?
 
2018-10-11 08:01:31 PM  

cirby: If you have only 9.3% of households making less than $10,000 a year, it's nearly impossible to bend the income curve enough to make that many people earn just over that number.


It's adorable that you think that.  Most people have no concept of how vastly uneven the distribution of wealth and income are in the US.  Even the ones who recognize that it's bad.

Wealth Inequality in America EXPLAINED
Youtube zjQm83F0MhQ
 
2018-10-11 08:06:06 PM  

Z-clipped: Magnus: Z-clipped: Magnus: big pig peaches: ChadM89: ChuckRoddy: Ah, the Income inequality metric. Useless to everyone who isn't a Marxist.

But hey, Venezuela is  REALLY equal now!

For the sake of clarity: are you claiming that income and wealth disparity is not a problem for a society at all, no matter the degree, and is something that can and should be ignored entirely?

If I may chime in. It's a useless metric when you completely ignore individual behavior.

It is a useless metric when all you look at is that metric.

A high degree of wealth/income inequality by itself is a good indicator that something is wrong with an economy.  It's just not a very good window on its own into exactly what is wrong.

It is an indicator.  Good or bad is debatable.

No. Whether Gini is a good metric for inequality might be debatable, but high wealth/income inequality is bad for a society, period.  Anyone who claims otherwise is either an idiot, or a sociopath.


At what point do you think that the wealth/income inequality has reached "high"?  You seem marking people as idiots just  because they don't agree with your opinion of what is "high".  To call someone a sociopath just because they differ from your opinion seems...emotional.

For example, if my sister Amy won the lottery and quit her job, her income is zero and the income disparity between her and myself  would be very high.  I wouldn't think that is a problem.  In your view of the world, I am a sociopath.  However, our wealth disparity would be enormous with her on the other end, which I still don't see as a problem.  And still, I'm the sociopath in your view.   Leaves me to wonder where the problem actually is.

Yes, I'm being a bit facetious but your extremist position leaves the realm of rational discussion.
 
2018-10-11 08:12:02 PM  

corn-bread: ChadM89: Magnus: ChadM89: Could you shed some light on the topic by explaining what other factors should be considered and how they relate to/affect the topic?

Sure, we could discuss how the Gini Cofficient doesn't count debt or negative wealth and how that skews the measure.  We could also discuss how it doesn't really factor in time so it completely leaves out growth rate and whether people that were once in the bottom half of the scale have now transited into the upper part of the scale to indicate is that bad or good.  I would love to go on but then I would be TL;DR and I suspect you weren't really interested in that discussion or you would have brought up your own points instead of trying to get me to further your interests.

Oh that's not true. I admit to not being an expert on the topic. I'm a 40-something with a job, a house I'm fixing up, a lady and hobbies. It doesn't leave me a lot of time to drill down and do a lot of research on specific topics that lay outside my field of professional expertise or that relate to my personal interests.


Agreed.  I too am ignorant on the topic, have never heard of the "Gini Coefficient", and wished to know more.

Dude just kinda murdered that discussion.


http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~jthuang/Gini​.​pdf
https://www.saintleo.edu/economics-ba​c​helor-degree

Discussion officially unmurdered...I think.  Not sure what you mean by "murdered' the discussion.
 
2018-10-11 08:21:48 PM  

cirby: A country where EVERYONE makes $1 a day has a perfect "1" on the Gini scale


Bzzzzzzzt. Wrong.  How about you go read up on how the index is calculated before you start in with the nonsense, mmmmkay?  And even though your mistake is evident from the second paragraph, I encourage you to read on and actually learn something.  You might come out with an opinion that's actually worth posting on the internet.

cirby:
...and which country would you prefer to live in?

I would prefer to live in a country where people don't mix absolute income with percentile income in the same hypothetical and labor under the illusion that they've made some kind of intelligent point.
 
2018-10-11 08:22:44 PM  

Z-clipped: One more time, since you seem to have diminished reading comprehension:


Uh huh.   So in my example, 50% of people not benefiting from the economic progress isn't "high" to you.    But apparently 1% of people being wealthy in the U.S. with only 13% poverty rate (less than my example) is somehow worse in your mind.   And I'm the one with comprehension problems.  Right.   Comedy gold.  :D

Apparently you are going to hide behind the definition of "high" and continue to respond with insults instead of anything that makes a bit of sense.  The true sign of someone who knows he has no point whatsoever.  Sorry.  :(


Z-clipped: and 1% of America owning 40% of the nation's wealth is definitely not "Half the people doing well".


Btw - did you know the majority of Americans are in a very high income bracket globally speaking.  Including the people classified as poor here. Fact.  And I know that fact makes you angry and unhappy, and you will respond incoherently with more insults again.  :(

If you could respond with higher than 5 year old vocabulary level, maybe it would help get your point across, if you actually ever had one.  Sincere advice.  And I'm being honest.
 
2018-10-11 08:39:13 PM  

Magnus: You seem marking people as idiots just  because they don't agree with your opinion of what is "high".


I have done no such thing.  I've marked people as idiots who cannot read a simple sentence without inferring completely ridiculous conclusions that are way down some slippery slope fallacy.  No one has made any attempt to argue about what "high" means.

Magnus: For example, if my sister Amy won the lottery and quit her job, her income is zero and the income disparity between her and myself  would be very high.  I wouldn't think that is a problem.


You would if you were in competition for goods and services, and the population of your economy were limited to just the two of you. You would effectively be her slave. She would have the power to set all prices and all wages.  You would be completely at her mercy.

Your example actually proves my point quite well if you express it in relevant economic context.
 
2018-10-11 08:45:10 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: So in my example, 50% of people not benefiting from the economic progress isn't "high" to you.


You haven't provided any meaningful data, probably because you still don't understand what the word "disparity" means.  You just want to toss around the term "doing well" without defining it, probably so you can later try to pretend that 80% of America is "middle class".
 
2018-10-11 08:46:35 PM  

Z-clipped: probably so you can later try to pretend that 80% of America is "middle class".


ThrobblefootSpectre: But apparently 1% of people being wealthy in the U.S.


And there it is, in the very next sentence.

Chessmate, librarians!
 
2018-10-11 08:47:14 PM  

Magnus: For example, if my sister Amy won the lottery and quit her job, her income is zero and the income disparity between her and myself  would be very high.  I wouldn't think that is a problem.  In your view of the world, I am a sociopath.  However, our wealth disparity would be enormous with her on the other end, which I still don't see as a problem.  And still, I'm the sociopath in your view.   Leaves me to wonder where the problem actually is.


There was a fark thread about an academic study on this a few weeks ago.  Basically, why does wealth inequality actually matter.  I don't have the study in front of me, could look it up in farkives when I get home from work, but summary is: people are hardwired to be unhappy when someone else is doing better than them, even if they themselves are doing better over time also.  In other words, if you have population sample A and B.  In 1990, say, population A and B are lower middle to middle class (American level well fed and comfortable).  If, in 2010, population A has 20% more disposable income, and population B has 50% more, then population A will report being even more unhappy in 2010 than back when they were poorer.   People are actually emotionally less happy when others around them are doing comparatively well.
 
2018-10-11 09:13:36 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Magnus: For example, if my sister Amy won the lottery and quit her job, her income is zero and the income disparity between her and myself  would be very high.  I wouldn't think that is a problem.  In your view of the world, I am a sociopath.  However, our wealth disparity would be enormous with her on the other end, which I still don't see as a problem.  And still, I'm the sociopath in your view.   Leaves me to wonder where the problem actually is.

There was a fark thread about an academic study on this a few weeks ago.  Basically, why does wealth inequality actually matter.  I don't have the study in front of me, could look it up in farkives when I get home from work, but summary is: people are hardwired to be unhappy when someone else is doing better than them, even if they themselves are doing better over time also.  In other words, if you have population sample A and B.  In 1990, say, population A and B are lower middle to middle class (American level well fed and comfortable).  If, in 2010, population A has 20% more disposable income, and population B has 50% more, then population A will report being even more unhappy in 2010 than back when they were poorer.   People are actually emotionally less happy when others around them are doing comparatively well.


Otherwise known as the salty vajeen effect.
 
2018-10-11 09:52:48 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: There was a fark thread about an academic study on this a few weeks ago.


You are probably thinking about the Easterlin Paradox
 
2018-10-12 02:23:12 AM  
Fark's A-Team showed up for this thread.

Green from top to farking bottom.
 
2018-10-12 06:04:16 AM  
I grew up in north metro Atlanta. My parents still live there. Bought their home for $13k in 1966. They are surrounded by neighborhoods with houses "from $500k" and one with houses advertised. "From $800k". A whole neighborhood priced like that. Amazing. I just don't know how some of you folks do it. I make pretty good money, but damn.

Oh and Go Tech! THWG!
 
2018-10-12 07:13:31 AM  
Magnus

mrwknd: Magnus

mrwknd: I do believe that it is the Republiderps dream to stagnate pay in Georgia, it's $5.15 an hr herebut at least most companies pay the Federal minimum of $7.25, too bad that helps no one when rents have increased about 600%+ in twenty years.

actually, all companies that are in compliance with the law pay $7.25/hr.  If the Fed says it's $7.25, it's that at the least in every state.  It's how our system of government works.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Georgia State Law must change what's on their books now at $5.15hr to $7.25hr. Does Georgia have the lowest minimum wage in the country ... . This is still the "South", and some people will still work for that amount because they're desperate, and yes most cases it would be under the table anyway.


/not enough of us goddamned Yankees moved down here yet to make real improvements...

???  That's exactly what a Federal system means.


Some laws should change to keep up with the times, but then we need to question we they are, what is the purpose for not updating, or in this case is the law being held in hopes that the wage minimum would come down so they don't have to re-write the law again. To me it's funny, absurd, and dumb at the same time, but also it's a question that our "leaders" would more than likely walk away from than straight out answer. This also goes for new laws that seem to take precedence that are just wtf like, House bans eating of cats, dogs - CBS News. So I sit wondering "is the Government hiding something" because otherwise are there that many people eating their pets, their neighbors pets, or are there that many starving (or will be) in Georgia (and a few other States). What happened to fishing?

/ yep, just farking around the absurdities
 
2018-10-12 09:30:54 AM  

mrwknd: "is the Government hiding something"


I think I see what's going on here.  I'm a sleepy sheeple, aren't I?
 
2018-10-12 09:35:28 AM  

Z-clipped: Magnus: You seem marking people as idiots just  because they don't agree with your opinion of what is "high".

I have done no such thing.  I've marked people as idiots who cannot read a simple sentence without inferring completely ridiculous conclusions that are way down some slippery slope fallacy.  No one has made any attempt to argue about what "high" means.

Magnus: For example, if my sister Amy won the lottery and quit her job, her income is zero and the income disparity between her and myself  would be very high.  I wouldn't think that is a problem.

You would if you were in competition for goods and services, and the population of your economy were limited to just the two of you. You would effectively be her slave. She would have the power to set all prices and all wages.  You would be completely at her mercy.

Your example actually proves my point quite well if you express it in relevant economic context.


It would if we moved the goal posts to where you placed them.

Thread will probably be closed by time you respond, so thanks for the conversation and pulling back on the hyperbole.  I'm sure we'll get a chance to exchange thoughts another time.  Fark needs a lot more of this to halt the echo chamber like qualities that exist around here.
 
2018-10-12 12:13:57 PM  
Magnus

mrwknd: "is the Government hiding something"

I think I see what's going on here.  I'm a sleepy sheeple, aren't I?


Always question Government, especially if they make laws outlawing eating cats and dogs but not your pet fish or Parakeet because you know some sh*t is about to go down.
 
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