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(Al Jazeera)   Pakistani Navy quits anti-piracy task force after US refuses to pay for fuel, violating age-old 'ass, gas, or grass, no one walks the plank for free' rule   ( aljazeera.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Persian Gulf, task force, Red Sea, Pakistan, Al Jazeera, Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea, Iran  
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3392 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Oct 2018 at 1:50 PM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-10-10 09:39:40 AM  
Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.
 
2018-10-10 12:29:14 PM  

oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.


Yes, because that's what the entire world wanted:  The US to pay their bills for them. That's why even "staunch" US Allies like most NATO countries cut their defense budgets to the friggin' *BONE*, knowing that in a conflict, the US would step up and shoulder the burden for them.  Then they act all shocked and dismayed when someone says "Pay your fair share, or we're out of here".

But the real reason we've stopped paying for Pakistan is because they have been dragging their feet in fighting the war on terror.  I mean, we all know about the ISI ties to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-S​e​rvices_Intelligence#Support_for_milita​nts

It even alludes to that in TFA, along with Pakistan's increasingly close relationship with China.  Something NPR reported on in depth yesterday:
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/638987​4​83/in-pakistan-learning-chinese-is-coo​l-and-seen-as-a-path-to-prosperity
 
2018-10-10 01:39:19 PM  

oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.


Only now it's fake gold.
 
2018-10-10 01:47:01 PM  
Around here, grass is the only reliable reward.
 
2018-10-10 01:52:55 PM  

LosinMySenses: oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.

Only now it's fake gold.


No, more like the gold Glenn Beck sells.
 
2018-10-10 01:53:29 PM  
I T-shirt purchased by nobody

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-10 01:53:32 PM  
Pakistan has a navy? Had to see for myself and found this photo. Who knew?

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-10-10 01:55:29 PM  
Pakistan has a coastline?  Whoa, not what I imagined man, are there any cheap group Spring Break trips that go there?
 
2018-10-10 01:56:06 PM  
Pfft, like the Pakistani Navy isn't just rowboats.
 
2018-10-10 01:57:50 PM  
Sinbad can get back to his adventuring now.
 
2018-10-10 01:58:41 PM  
If you have to pay people to be your friend and hunt pirates together....they might not be the best friend ever
 
2018-10-10 01:59:54 PM  

iheartscotch: If you have to pay people to be your friend and hunt pirates together....they might not be the best friend ever


Enemy of my enemy...
 
2018-10-10 02:01:15 PM  

oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.


We have King Merdes now >.>
 
2018-10-10 02:01:48 PM  
And when a Pakistani flagged ship gets hijacked they'll be all "Why won't America help us!?!?!?"
 
2018-10-10 02:04:43 PM  
Good, we shouldn't be paying for their gas.
What other farked up deals has our government gotten us into that we don't know about?
 
2018-10-10 02:05:21 PM  
"US officials later admitted that the breakdown in ties was a mistake and helped groups such as the Taliban, al-Qaeda and others to find havens in Pakistan, which was not able to counter evolving armed groups on its own."

At least no one was harmed by that mistake.
 
2018-10-10 02:07:07 PM  
Can we stop farking around with Pakistan already, and focus on prying India away from Russia? That seems like it would be a win-win.
 
2018-10-10 02:07:44 PM  

oldfool: "US officials later admitted that the breakdown in ties was a mistake and helped groups such as the Taliban, al-Qaeda and others to find havens in Pakistan, which was not able to counter evolving armed groups on its own."

At least no one was harmed by that mistake.


Farking Pressler
 
2018-10-10 02:10:35 PM  

dittybopper: oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.

Yes, because that's what the entire world wanted:  The US to pay their bills for them. That's why even "staunch" US Allies like most NATO countries cut their defense budgets to the friggin' *BONE*, knowing that in a conflict, the US would step up and shoulder the burden for them.  Then they act all shocked and dismayed when someone says "Pay your fair share, or we're out of here".

But the real reason we've stopped paying for Pakistan is because they have been dragging their feet in fighting the war on terror.  I mean, we all know about the ISI ties to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Se​rvices_Intelligence#Support_for_milita​nts

It even alludes to that in TFA, along with Pakistan's increasingly close relationship with China.  Something NPR reported on in depth yesterday:
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/6389874​83/in-pakistan-learning-chinese-is-coo​l-and-seen-as-a-path-to-prosperity


What's a little world chaos when there's some stigginit to get done.

I'm not advocating turning a blind eye to shifty behavior, but we are the center of the world, until we aren't anymore..
 
2018-10-10 02:11:17 PM  

mrsleep: Good, we shouldn't be paying for their gas.
What other farked up deals has our government gotten us into that we don't know about?


Thanks Obama
 
2018-10-10 02:11:43 PM  

dittybopper: oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.

Yes, because that's what the entire world wanted:  The US to pay their bills for them. That's why even "staunch" US Allies like most NATO countries cut their defense budgets to the friggin' *BONE*, knowing that in a conflict, the US would step up and shoulder the burden for them.  Then they act all shocked and dismayed when someone says "Pay your fair share, or we're out of here".

But the real reason we've stopped paying for Pakistan is because they have been dragging their feet in fighting the war on terror.  I mean, we all know about the ISI ties to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Se​rvices_Intelligence#Support_for_milita​nts

It even alludes to that in TFA, along with Pakistan's increasingly close relationship with China.  Something NPR reported on in depth yesterday:
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/6389874​83/in-pakistan-learning-chinese-is-coo​l-and-seen-as-a-path-to-prosperity


This comment presumes a reality in which the US gets to dictate policy to another country, which simply isn't true.  So in some areas Pakistan is not behaving exactly as the US would like?  Well that's just cricket, Jimmy.  International relationships is the art of the possible - so if there's a thing on which Pakistan and the US agree and seek to cooperate, that's something you go ahead with as long as it is something both parties see a benefit in, regardless if there are other areas where the two disagree.  Looked at in reverse - what did the US gain and lose?  The US gained nothing because this clearly isn't going to change Pakistan's behavior.  The US either lost something of significant benefit from cutting off this relationship (in which case it's dumb to lose something for no return) or lost nothing because the US didn't value whatever it was getting out of it (in which case it just looks silly and petty and small, not to mention also dumb).
 
2018-10-10 02:12:05 PM  
You didn't want to walk the plank. It wasn't exactly a good thing.
 
2018-10-10 02:13:21 PM  

arrogantbastich: dittybopper: oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.

Yes, because that's what the entire world wanted:  The US to pay their bills for them. That's why even "staunch" US Allies like most NATO countries cut their defense budgets to the friggin' *BONE*, knowing that in a conflict, the US would step up and shoulder the burden for them.  Then they act all shocked and dismayed when someone says "Pay your fair share, or we're out of here".

But the real reason we've stopped paying for Pakistan is because they have been dragging their feet in fighting the war on terror.  I mean, we all know about the ISI ties to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Se​rvices_Intelligence#Support_for_milita​nts

It even alludes to that in TFA, along with Pakistan's increasingly close relationship with China.  Something NPR reported on in depth yesterday:
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/6389874​83/in-pakistan-learning-chinese-is-coo​l-and-seen-as-a-path-to-prosperity

What's a little world chaos when there's some stigginit to get done.

I'm not advocating turning a blind eye to shifty behavior, but we are the center of the world, until we aren't anymore..


Eh, let it go. The answer is always burn everything to the ground. No reason for moderation or statesmanship.
 
2018-10-10 02:14:33 PM  

abhorrent1: And when a Pakistani flagged ship gets hijacked they'll be all "Why won't America help us!?!?!?"


Nah because it will be a ship from South Africa, owned by a German firm and operated by a crew from India.
 
2018-10-10 02:16:04 PM  

maxandgrinch: Pakistan has a coastline?  Whoa, not what I imagined man, are there any cheap group Spring Break trips that go there?


Not sure if serious.   Pakistan has about 650 miles of actual coastline.  Though, don't blink, what is coastline today will be inland come the next earthquake.
 
2018-10-10 02:16:14 PM  

oldernell: Remember way back when the word of the US was like gold.


The lannister's always pay their debts.
 
2018-10-10 02:16:58 PM  

Dick Gozinya: iheartscotch: If you have to pay people to be your friend and hunt pirates together....they might not be the best friend ever

Enemy of my enemy...


Is your enemies enemy, nothing more, nothing less.
 
2018-10-10 02:17:03 PM  

maxandgrinch: Pakistan has a coastline?  Whoa, not what I imagined man, are there any cheap group Spring Break trips that go there?


It has a bit more coastline than Alabama or Connecticut.
 
2018-10-10 02:17:24 PM  
Wow.

Are there any countries left to insult?

And why is it all the nuclear armed bears the ones y'all gotta poke?
 
2018-10-10 02:19:26 PM  
We'll trade you for the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden.

Oh, wait, you wouldn't give us that.
 
2018-10-10 02:21:04 PM  

mrsleep: Good, we shouldn't be paying for their gas.
What other farked up deals has our government gotten us into that we don't know about?


Yeah, because having an ally that borders and/or shares waters with countries you've bombed the crap out of or threatened war with couldn't be at all symbiotic.  They MUST be freeloaders.
 
2018-10-10 02:22:00 PM  

BigNumber12: Can we stop farking around with Pakistan already, and focus on prying India away from Russia? That seems like it would be a win-win.


agree with you here. We have had fairly good relations with India for the last couple of decades. If I were India, I would keep a very open eye on China. Has everyone forgotten about China shooting at Indian soldiers on the border? This was literally last year or the year before.

Pakistan, has never been interested in being an ally of the US. Why did we have to do a night-time raid to get Osama? Oh thats right, A) they wouldn't give access to the air space, B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there. C) we are friendly with India. You think that the Israelis and Palestinians have got some issues to work through, take a read at the history between Pakistan and India. Its not pretty and was very brutal.

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. They are glad-handers, at the very best. We rightfully eye them with suspension at every turn.
 
2018-10-10 02:29:17 PM  

brizzle365: B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there.


At the time of that raid I had a Pakistani co-worker who said that particular area was very exclusive.  Only military officer families were allowed to live there, and only with the right connections.  In other words, there was absolutely no way for OBL to live there without higher ups in the military knowing about it.  Assuming that is true, Pakistan is not even close to being our friend or ally.
 
2018-10-10 02:35:36 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: maxandgrinch: Pakistan has a coastline?  Whoa, not what I imagined man, are there any cheap group Spring Break trips that go there?

Not sure if serious.   Pakistan has about 650 miles of actual coastline.  Though, don't blink, what is coastline today will be inland come the next earthquake.


starsrift: It has a bit more coastline than Alabama or Connecticut.


Seems like it could be an up and coming spring break destinations, before the man and religious nutcases start shutting all the fun college experiences down, limiting beer sales, having dress codes, not allowing MTV to film, or restricting clubs to have wet t-shirt and drinking contests.

Also thanks to the Farker who PM'd the link to GOArmyreserves.com Goa is supposed to be an epic party locale and on my bucket list, but not sure I understand how they would pay me to go there and I'm not ready to reserve anything yet, but I'll check out their site later.
 
2018-10-10 02:37:47 PM  

OgreMagi: brizzle365: B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there.

At the time of that raid I had a Pakistani co-worker who said that particular area was very exclusive.  Only military officer families were allowed to live there, and only with the right connections.  In other words, there was absolutely no way for OBL to live there without higher ups in the military knowing about it.  Assuming that is true, Pakistan is not even close to being our friend or ally.


Lots of retired military and a little, small, i am sure insignificant military academy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_T​o​wn

Oh they most certainly knew, or they are the most inept military/intelligence/government in the world, and that would be saying a lot
 
2018-10-10 02:39:31 PM  

brizzle365: BigNumber12: Can we stop farking around with Pakistan already, and focus on prying India away from Russia? That seems like it would be a win-win.

agree with you here. We have had fairly good relations with India for the last couple of decades. If I were India, I would keep a very open eye on China. Has everyone forgotten about China shooting at Indian soldiers on the border? This was literally last year or the year before.

Pakistan, has never been interested in being an ally of the US. Why did we have to do a night-time raid to get Osama? Oh thats right, A) they wouldn't give access to the air space, B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there. C) we are friendly with India. You think that the Israelis and Palestinians have got some issues to work through, take a read at the history between Pakistan and India. Its not pretty and was very brutal.

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. They are glad-handers, at the very best. We rightfully eye them with suspension at every turn.


The U.S.-Russia-China-India-Pakistan love... polyhedron... has absolutely shifted since the old Cold War faceoff of Russia-India vs. U.S.-Pakistan. Russia and India have been showcasing major developments in their relations, but they conceal underlying strain, and China's rise is going to throw a major wrench in those works. Military hardware & cooperation have been a substantial portion of Russia and India's cooperation with each other. Well, we can provide that just as easily, and Russia's been falling down on some of their joint projects. Economically, a stagnating Russia has less and less to offer a growing India. Additionally, as you mention, China and India are growing adversaries, and with Russia's making overtures towards China, that introduces further Russia-India strain. China has also been making overtures to Pakistan, as a way to stiggit to India.

We have every incentive to seize this opportunity to split that relationship. The opening is there.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/the-c​o​ming-india-russia-split/

It would be great if we could get India a seat on the UNSC. They have clear support from 4 of the 5 currently, and surprisingly, even China expressed some support, conditional on India's dropping support for Japan's bid. And let's face it, Japan isn't going to be on the UNSC, ever.
 
2018-10-10 02:44:08 PM  

OgreMagi: brizzle365: B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there.

At the time of that raid I had a Pakistani co-worker who said that particular area was very exclusive.  Only military officer families were allowed to live there, and only with the right connections.  In other words, there was absolutely no way for OBL to live there without higher ups in the military knowing about it.  Assuming that is true, Pakistan is not even close to being our friend or ally.


It's not that cut and dry.

They were supporters of the Taliban before 9/11 - the enemy of their enemy, Russia - and after, they betrayed them, for the US.
It's not surprising that the entire country didn't turn on the same dime and some of the officer corps maintained connections. Hell, they nearly went through a civil war as a result. They're on the front lines of the War on Terror, the front lines that American civilians don't really have to see or feel threatened by. They got all the follow up attacks that America was paranoid about, because the terrorists didn't need to go through easily-secured bottlenecks like flights to get at them.

And yet it's still not enough for people like brizzle365. Getting to the point where there's not much reason for anyone to try to be an ally, there's just no pleasing the US.
 
2018-10-10 02:44:23 PM  
media.giphy.comView Full Size

So we're negative on "ass" as well?
 
2018-10-10 02:46:03 PM  

Literally Addicted: mrsleep: Good, we shouldn't be paying for their gas.
What other farked up deals has our government gotten us into that we don't know about?

Yeah, because having an ally that borders and/or shares waters with countries you've bombed the crap out of or threatened war with couldn't be at all symbiotic.  They MUST be freeloaders.


Also keeping an inroad with a fairy unstable nuclear armed country that is full of terrorists that hate you might be beneficial.

In terms of nuclear weapons, Pakistan is a far greater liability than North Korea or Iran.
 
2018-10-10 02:47:59 PM  

dywed88: Literally Addicted: mrsleep: Good, we shouldn't be paying for their gas.
What other farked up deals has our government gotten us into that we don't know about?

Yeah, because having an ally that borders and/or shares waters with countries you've bombed the crap out of or threatened war with couldn't be at all symbiotic.  They MUST be freeloaders.

Also keeping an inroad with a fairy unstable nuclear armed country that is full of terrorists that hate you might be beneficial.

In terms of nuclear weapons, Pakistan is a far greater liability than North Korea or Iran.


I'm aware.  Doesn't seem like others are.
 
2018-10-10 02:50:25 PM  

maxandgrinch: Dewey Fidalgo: maxandgrinch: Pakistan has a coastline?  Whoa, not what I imagined man, are there any cheap group Spring Break trips that go there?

Not sure if serious.   Pakistan has about 650 miles of actual coastline.  Though, don't blink, what is coastline today will be inland come the next earthquake.

starsrift: It has a bit more coastline than Alabama or Connecticut.

Seems like it could be an up and coming spring break destinations, before the man and religious nutcases start shutting all the fun college experiences down, limiting beer sales, having dress codes, not allowing MTV to film, or restricting clubs to have wet t-shirt and drinking contests.

Also thanks to the Farker who PM'd the link to GOArmyreserves.com Goa is supposed to be an epic party locale and on my bucket list, but not sure I understand how they would pay me to go there and I'm not ready to reserve anything yet, but I'll check out their site later.


Goa is in India, btw.

The Makran coast is pretty damn bleak for the most part.   It's one of those weird obscure things I know about.   It puts the emerging into the term Emerging coastlines.   It's also where Alexander the Great ran into big trouble returning from "India".   Though the beaches he was on are now about 5 miles inland and now essentially a range.
 
2018-10-10 02:51:58 PM  
Why we're doing ANYTHING with Pakistan is beyond me.
 
2018-10-10 02:58:07 PM  

puddleonfire: Why we're doing ANYTHING with Pakistan is beyond me.


Probably because if we don't keep an eye on them they'd be the first nation to sell a nuke to terrorists.  Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.
 
2018-10-10 03:03:28 PM  

BigNumber12: Can we stop farking around with Pakistan already, and focus on prying India away from Russia? That seems like it would be a win-win.


For Russia, sure.
We don't need it. We're already tied to several useless countries, we certainly don't need another one.
 
2018-10-10 03:04:51 PM  

Literally Addicted: dywed88: Literally Addicted: mrsleep: Good, we shouldn't be paying for their gas.
What other farked up deals has our government gotten us into that we don't know about?

Yeah, because having an ally that borders and/or shares waters with countries you've bombed the crap out of or threatened war with couldn't be at all symbiotic.  They MUST be freeloaders.

Also keeping an inroad with a fairy unstable nuclear armed country that is full of terrorists that hate you might be beneficial.

In terms of nuclear weapons, Pakistan is a far greater liability than North Korea or Iran.

I'm aware.  Doesn't seem like others are.


Yeah I was meaning to add to your comments.
 
2018-10-10 03:05:33 PM  

puddleonfire: Why we're doing ANYTHING with Pakistan is beyond me.


Geographic location and nuclear weapons.
 
2018-10-10 03:08:11 PM  

OgreMagi: brizzle365: B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there.

At the time of that raid I had a Pakistani co-worker who said that particular area was very exclusive.  Only military officer families were allowed to live there, and only with the right connections.  In other words, there was absolutely no way for OBL to live there without higher ups in the military knowing about it.  Assuming that is true, Pakistan is not even close to being our friend or ally.


Frienemy?
 
2018-10-10 03:11:00 PM  

brizzle365: BigNumber12: Can we stop farking around with Pakistan already, and focus on prying India away from Russia? That seems like it would be a win-win.

agree with you here. We have had fairly good relations with India for the last couple of decades. If I were India, I would keep a very open eye on China. Has everyone forgotten about China shooting at Indian soldiers on the border? This was literally last year or the year before.

Pakistan, has never been interested in being an ally of the US. Why did we have to do a night-time raid to get Osama? Oh thats right, A) they wouldn't give access to the air space, B) allowed him in the country, living near one of the biggest military compounds in the country, but they totes had no idea he was there. C) we are friendly with India. You think that the Israelis and Palestinians have got some issues to work through, take a read at the history between Pakistan and India. Its not pretty and was very brutal.

In this case, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. They are glad-handers, at the very best. We rightfully eye them with suspension at every turn.


India-China trade is higher than China-USA trade already. It surpassed it around 2014 I believe.
 
2018-10-10 03:12:23 PM  
Well, it's been three quarters of a century. Long enough to forget the lessons of isolationism and fascism, it appears.
Oh well - Der Drumftenfuhrer needs a war to save his ass in 2020 anyway, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
One way or another, we'll have one.
 
2018-10-10 03:20:55 PM  

jso2897: Well, it's been three quarters of a century. Long enough to forget the lessons of isolationism and fascism, it appears.
Oh well - Der Drumftenfuhrer needs a war to save his ass in 2020 anyway, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
One way or another, we'll have one.


Would be interesting to see, he hasn't started a new military conflict yet, and would be the first pres to not do so in quite some time.
 
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