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(Denver Channel)   Taking a page from the airline management playbook, Sears decides to try blaming retirees for its failure   ( thedenverchannel.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Pension, pension plans, Sears, Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, Sears Holdings Corporation, Sears Holdings, Lampert, large pension plans  
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1082 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Sep 2018 at 2:35 PM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-09-14 02:28:24 PM  
tse4.mm.bing.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 02:45:05 PM  
Color me surprised that they hadn't dumped the pensions on the PBGC for pennies on the dollar already.
 
2018-09-14 02:49:55 PM  
"The only person without blame here is Eddie Lampert." - Eli Wexler was quoted as saying on Pebble
 
2018-09-14 02:50:30 PM  
 
2018-09-14 02:51:09 PM  

inglixthemad: Color me surprised that they hadn't dumped the pensions on the PBGC for pennies on the dollar already.


Need a Chapter 11 filing first.
 
2018-09-14 02:52:25 PM  

Another Government Employee: inglixthemad: Color me surprised that they hadn't dumped the pensions on the PBGC for pennies on the dollar already.

Need a Chapter 11 filing first.


Does not always work even with a Chapter 11. See American Airlines for an example.
 
2018-09-14 02:52:57 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 02:58:28 PM  
I worked for sears in the early 1990s.  That is when they stopped all the good retirement benefits, and either forced long time employees to retire or take buyouts. And they pretty much raided the pension plan then.

fark sears.
 
2018-09-14 03:04:02 PM  

HempHead: Another Government Employee: inglixthemad: Color me surprised that they hadn't dumped the pensions on the PBGC for pennies on the dollar already.

Need a Chapter 11 filing first.

Does not always work even with a Chapter 11. See American Airlines for an example.


Uh, yeah, the problem there was that when American filed for bankruptcy in 2012 they had $4 billion in cash on hand. It's kind of hard to claim you can't meet your obligations that way.
 
2018-09-14 03:12:18 PM  
Sears can roebuck themselves for all I care.
 
2018-09-14 03:13:06 PM  

ImpendingCynic: HempHead: Another Government Employee: inglixthemad: Color me surprised that they hadn't dumped the pensions on the PBGC for pennies on the dollar already.

Need a Chapter 11 filing first.

Does not always work even with a Chapter 11. See American Airlines for an example.

Uh, yeah, the problem there was that when American filed for bankruptcy in 2012 they had $4 billion in cash on hand. It's kind of hard to claim you can't meet your obligations that way.


They tried and almost got away with it.
 
2018-09-14 03:24:52 PM  
Lampter, the problem stares at you when you look in the mirror.
 
2018-09-14 03:45:47 PM  
Nobody is able to process the many orders rushing in by telegraph.
 
2018-09-14 03:45:49 PM  

theflatline: I worked for sears in the early 1990s.  That is when they stopped all the good retirement benefits, and either forced long time employees to retire or take buyouts. And they pretty much raided the pension plan then.
fark sears.


Or they just got rid of them. My Sis-in-law worked there for years. Good performance reviews until she got close to being vested. 2 negative reviews she felt were not justified and they fired her.
 
2018-09-14 03:51:37 PM  
I'm waiting for my mall's Sears to become JC Penny Tools, Yard and Automotive because that is all they have left. Seriously, I park by Sears because I know I will get a good spot which is sad as I really liked roaming through Sears back in the day.
 
2018-09-14 04:03:11 PM  
Good riddance.

Sears is but a relic of the past.  A testament to what happens when a business fails to adjust to changes in society and tries to coast on past glory alone.

They could have become a value brand like Kohl's, or a Service brand like Macy's, or a one stop shop like a Wal-Mart, but with appliances.  Shoot they could have been the next Amazon if they'd have moved their catalog online.
 
2018-09-14 04:03:41 PM  

The_Philosopher_King: theflatline: I worked for sears in the early 1990s.  That is when they stopped all the good retirement benefits, and either forced long time employees to retire or take buyouts. And they pretty much raided the pension plan then.
fark sears.

Or they just got rid of them. My Sis-in-law worked there for years. Good performance reviews until she got close to being vested. 2 negative reviews she felt were not justified and they fired her.


Worked there for years and they wouldn't even give her a vest?  At walmart you get your vest on your 1st day!
 
2018-09-14 04:12:51 PM  
I blame the sticky pages in the intimates section of their catalog.  It's hard to order when the pages are stuck together..

/I think they use a special kind of ink on that section.
 
2018-09-14 04:20:20 PM  
No sympathy here Sears.  You have enough other fark ups that your pensions payments are likely the least cause of your imminent demise.
 
2018-09-14 04:24:29 PM  
akya:

<groan>
 
2018-09-14 04:27:17 PM  

HempHead: [img.fark.net image 425x495]


imgs.xkcd.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 04:39:12 PM  

Geotpf: HempHead: [img.fark.net image 425x495]

[imgs.xkcd.com image 461x295]


You seriously think Sears will be around after 2020?
 
2018-09-14 05:07:57 PM  

HempHead: Geotpf: HempHead: [img.fark.net image 425x495]

[imgs.xkcd.com image 461x295]

You seriously think Sears will be around after 2020?


Given the lack of merchandise in my nearest Kmart (which is supposedly one of the 'Top 25' stores), I'd be surprised if they don't file for bankruptcy before Christmas.
 
2018-09-14 05:14:02 PM  
I'd rather see Wal*Mart go down the toilet than Sears. I got a pretty good refrigerator at Sears. And they're not farking evil.
 
2018-09-14 05:18:05 PM  

HempHead: Geotpf: HempHead: [img.fark.net image 425x495]

[imgs.xkcd.com image 461x295]

You seriously think Sears will be around after 2020?


No, but the graph was too close to the XKCD one not to post it.

Sears is farked.  Right now they are at the "waaaa we have too many retirees" stage, which only happens after a company already shrank a farkton (if you grew or remained stable, revenue would be enough to pay for all the retirees, but if you shrink, then you end up having more retirees than actual employees-but this is a (compounding) effect of a troubled company, not the root cause).

In this case, the root cause of their troubles is having a moronic Randian douchbag as CEO and majority owner.
 
2018-09-14 05:22:20 PM  

Mugato: I'd rather see Wal*Mart go down the toilet than Sears. I got a pretty good refrigerator at Sears. And they're not farking evil.


Yes, yes they are.  Well, at least their CEO is.

http://evonomics.com/the-ceo-of-sears​-​jon-haidt/
 
2018-09-14 05:27:23 PM  

Geotpf: Mugato: I'd rather see Wal*Mart go down the toilet than Sears. I got a pretty good refrigerator at Sears. And they're not farking evil.

Yes, yes they are.  Well, at least their CEO is.

http://evonomics.com/the-ceo-of-sears-​jon-haidt/


Well it's a CEO. It's by definition.
 
2018-09-14 05:37:43 PM  
I peeked inside Sears the other day while driving by. They haven't changed their ugly gold-brown carpet since I last shopped there 25 years ago. And it was worn out back then.
 
2018-09-14 05:58:50 PM  
Those pension obligations existed when you bought the company.  So the only person to blame is yourself.
 
2018-09-14 06:20:23 PM  
Sears is trying to sell its Kenmore appliance brand as well, and Lampert has offered to buy for $400 million through a hedge fund he controls. But no deal has been reached.

If he can't move money from one account to another, no wonder he can't run a company.
 
2018-09-14 06:24:57 PM  

hashtag.acronym: Sears is trying to sell its Kenmore appliance brand as well, and Lampert has offered to buy for $400 million through a hedge fund he controls. But no deal has been reached.

If he can't move money from one account to another, no wonder he can't run a company.


It would be hilarious if it weren't sad. As the majority stockholder(last i read 52%), he basically gets to pick the majority of the board. So, as there is a conflict for him to be involved in selling off a company asset to another company he owns, he's stepped away from the decision and it's been given to the board. Who he hand picked the stooge yes-men. This is basically a private company masquerading as a public one.
 
2018-09-14 06:38:05 PM  

nytmare: I peeked inside Sears the other day while driving by. They haven't changed their ugly gold-brown carpet since I last shopped there 25 years ago. And it was worn out back then.


I went in one two years ago.  It was abysmal.  Sections sheeted off, sections that were open were sparse with products, found some Levi shorts on sale for $15 and I bought them.  I won't go to a Sears again.

The worst part.  There was a person in line ahead of me.  Girl at the register went through the whole "rewards program" routine with her even though the lady wasn't interested.  Took 5 minutes (I was keeping time).  The lady finally bought the two shirts.

She then started to do it on me, I said "I'm not interested and I just want to buy some shorts", she kept on about the program while I pulled out my phone and called Dominos for some carryout, when she saw my phone she paused where I said "I'm really not interested and I know you have to do the routine so I'm gonna order pizza while you up-sell me on something I don't want."  I ordered pizza, she kept talking about the program, I finally bought my shorts and didn't have to hear the up-sell twice.

That's become my goto when stores try to up-sell me or the cashier has some thing management makes them say....If I tell you I'm not interested and you keep on yammering on then I'll do something rude to distract myself like order a pizza.  They learn and they quit doing it to me.

I once told Lowes I didn't have a phone so I couldn't give them a number to put in.  Lady called a manager over to help her get around the "customer doesn't have a phone" nag screen, then my cell phone rang, I took the call, they asked for my number again, I told them I didn't have a phone.  I was given a blank stare and then the lady put in her own phone number to get rid of me.

I'm sorry to the employees I put through that routine, but Lowes doesn't need my phone number for a 20oz soda and a can of gloss black spray paint.
 
2018-09-14 06:43:04 PM  

jayphat: hashtag.acronym: Sears is trying to sell its Kenmore appliance brand as well, and Lampert has offered to buy for $400 million through a hedge fund he controls. But no deal has been reached.

If he can't move money from one account to another, no wonder he can't run a company.

It would be hilarious if it weren't sad. As the majority stockholder(last i read 52%), he basically gets to pick the majority of the board. So, as there is a conflict for him to be involved in selling off a company asset to another company he owns, he's stepped away from the decision and it's been given to the board. Who he hand picked the stooge yes-men. This is basically a private company masquerading as a public one.


Yep.  They're "pretending" that they're doing the numbers when they're really waiting long enough so the SEC doesn't look too closely at their shenanigans.

You have to figure that anyone on the board that doesn't approve the sale will be fired and replaced with a better ass kisser so you just know it'll go through.
 
2018-09-14 06:43:38 PM  
Retirees in the sense that only people in their 80s still think Sears has the prestige of its earlier years?
 
2018-09-14 08:58:02 PM  
Yeah, how dare those retirees for retiring. This isn't Europe!
 
2018-09-14 11:38:55 PM  
The old pension systems were a trap in a society learning to grow old.  Sears would just be another old company suffering, but I'd have thought they'd outlived their obligations. Everyone switched to defined contributions in the 80s and 90s. Give 20 years to the pension problem and most of them are dead. The remaining can't be that big a problem.
 
2018-09-14 11:55:14 PM  
Eddie Lampert is a cancer on that company. He always has been.
 
2018-09-15 07:24:04 AM  

Delezaio: Good riddance.

Sears is but a relic of the past.  A testament to what happens when a business fails to adjust to changes in society and tries to coast on past glory alone.

They could have become a value brand like Kohl's, or a Service brand like Macy's, or a one stop shop like a Wal-Mart, but with appliances.  Shoot they could have been the next Amazon if they'd have moved their catalog online.


Sears should have been the first Amazon. They were the mail-order king for a century and then bit it hard just when it was becoming easier than ever to run that kind of business.
 
2018-09-15 09:23:13 AM  
When my dad retired he got a part time job at Sears. Mainly for the employee discount so he could buy his tools. After my mom figured out that it was costing them money for him to go to work, she basically fired him.  He was pissy for a week or so but got over it and many years later it's become a family tradition to bust on him at thanksgiving regarding all the tools he bought and has never used.
 
2018-09-15 10:14:45 AM  

wildcardjack: The old pension systems were a trap in a society learning to grow old.  Sears would just be another old company suffering, but I'd have thought they'd outlived their obligations. Everyone switched to defined contributions in the 80s and 90s. Give 20 years to the pension problem and most of them are dead. The remaining can't be that big a problem.


Police and Firefighter pensions are going to bankrupt a lot of cities.
 
2018-09-15 11:29:34 AM  
Sears is beyond hope.

My teenaged daughter and wife were talking about where she (daughter) should go to buy new jeans.  They were debating the relative merits of Kohls and Old Navy.  I said "What about Sears?" as a half-joke.

Wife:  "Yuck, Sears is for tools and appliances if you don't have a Lowe's"

Daughter: "What's a Sears?"

As an aside, an interesting bit of trivia from Sears' history - back in their kit-home days, they sold complete knock-down kits to build houses, with every screw, hinge, doorknob, etc. package and delivered on site.  They also offered contract services to build the homes, and eventually home mortgages. 

Sears began offering "easy payment'' mortgages in 1911, Thornton said, and there were only a few questions on the application, making it remarkably fair for the era. "There was no redlining, no telling us about your ethnicity. ... It was just 'Do you have a job?' and 'Do you own the lot?' '' Thornton said. "And if the answer to those two questions was yes, you got a mortgage.'' A buyer who owned a lot outright could even use the land as the 25 percent down payment.

That allowed people who were often shut out of the traditional mortgage market - like women, immigrants, and people of color - to buy a home. " 'Progressive' isn't even the right word, it was 'radical,' '' Thornton said. "They threw open the door of homeownership to a very different group that otherwise might have been locked out of the market.''


https://realestate.boston.com/news/20​1​7/07/27/when-sears-sold-the-american-d​ream/
 
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