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(The Atlantic)   Americans are no longer actively practicing Democracy   ( theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Murica, United States, Democracy, Audm iPhone app, democratic governance, democracy, Americans, innate democratic instinct, American government  
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2479 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2018 at 4:15 AM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-09-14 02:34:23 AM  
All part of the Republican plan. Soon corporations will rule us without having to worry about any pesky government getting in the way.
 
2018-09-14 02:34:40 AM  
conservatives blame the libruls.  libruls blame the conservatives.  meanwhile, our giant asshole of a president is busy gloating over 3k dead brown people in puerto rico, and pretending he's still running the country.  The GOP is pushing hard as they can to get an evangelical nut job and lying perjuring f*cktard on SCOTUS.  And nobody has any idea if our mid term elections are gonna get hacked by a hostile foreign power or not.

*shrug*

I know whom I think is largely responsible for the mess this country has become...but ain't nobody gonna listen to what I got to say.  so I guess I just keep my head down, try and get by as best I can day by day until something changes for the better.
 
2018-09-14 02:35:59 AM  

fusillade762: Soon corporations will rule us without having to worry about any pesky government getting in the way.


its like we shifted into the Shadowrun timeline only without the Great Ghost Dance 2.0 part.  FASA got the concentration camps right, but put the wrong minority group into 'em.
 
2018-09-14 03:45:05 AM  
Democracy 3 was a fun game, but it's easier when you use Russian mods.
 
2018-09-14 04:23:23 AM  
This is something that has really impressed me here in Norwayland. There are so many meetings. Kids in school vote on their class rules (for real! and they are pretty strict, actually). Buildings vote on whether to add a fence. There are groups for reducing traffic on streets, preserving little parks, adding bike lanes. People actually go to city council meetings, and not just the crazies. Every workplace has elected employee representatives. There is tons of democracy at all levels, all the time. I never felt that way in the US.
 
2018-09-14 04:28:26 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 04:28:37 AM  
The country started out by forbidding most people from actually participating in democracy, and the ones that could were rich and white. I don't ever believe we've had a democracy.
 
2018-09-14 04:37:21 AM  
It doesn't help that there has been a cultural zeitgeist fort the last 50 years telling people that persistent political action is worthless and you should put all your faith into a singular individual to enact the "Glorious Revolution" in one fell swoop.
 
2018-09-14 04:37:38 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: This is something that has really impressed me here in Norwayland. There are so many meetings. Kids in school vote on their class rules (for real! and they are pretty strict, actually). Buildings vote on whether to add a fence. There are groups for reducing traffic on streets, preserving little parks, adding bike lanes. People actually go to city council meetings, and not just the crazies. Every workplace has elected employee representatives. There is tons of democracy at all levels, all the time. I never felt that way in the US.


I, too, am a big fan of the way things are run in Norway.
 
2018-09-14 04:41:32 AM  
We never practiced pure democracy, because we have a republican form of government.  which appears to be working as intended for the most part.

Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't accepting demographic realities, and Im talking about people living longer and needing more education to be productive, not diversity.  Amercia will do just fine with whites in the minority but we can't seem to cope with people retiring and living longer.
 
2018-09-14 04:44:35 AM  

BlueDWarrior: It doesn't help that there has been a cultural zeitgeist fort the last 50 years telling people that persistent political action is worthless and you should put all your faith into a singular individual to enact the "Glorious Revolution" in one fell swoop.


not to mention that campaign finance laws and the bulk of our entire political process is designed to keep out the poor and anyone who isn't able or willing to carpet bomb congress with money.  then there's a corporate run and owned press that's more interested in creating and prolonging conflict to boost ratings, an electorate too lazy to do its own homework, fanatics knowingly corrupting the process with malice aforethought because they think their gods want them to BSOD the federal government (spoiler alert: he doesn't care about the federal government).

*sigh*

so there's a LOT of reasons why this country stopped practicing 'democracy'.  did you know some of my local trumpers are so anti-intellectual and opposed to knowing even basic facts that they tried to jump down my throat for reminding them that Puerto Rico is a US territory?  think about how BADLY misinformed you'd have to be to not know something like that about this country, then double down on your ignorance and attack people for pointing out you were wrong.  now imagine an entire political faction that does exactly that sort of thing on every issue.....and that's why we've got a problem.
 
2018-09-14 04:47:22 AM  
Perhaps, but observe that it says in the Constitution, that it's really OK to have a revolution when the leaders that you choose can;t quite wear the shoes... The Revolution will not be televised!
 
2018-09-14 04:50:17 AM  
We are still a democracy. It's just that a rich guys influence is 1000 times mine. You can't vote to change it because money is freedom of speech.

FOX has brainwashed a generation into thinking the poor rich people are being picked on by society and need more money to create jobs. Jobs are created by consumers.... you know the middle class.
 
2018-09-14 04:57:08 AM  
Beta Tested:

I, too, am a big fan of the way things are run in Norway.

We should have a Fark party Oslo - all 2 (3?) of us could show up (and elect a president, secretary, etc.)
 
2018-09-14 05:03:32 AM  

Weaver95: fusillade762: Soon corporations will rule us without having to worry about any pesky government getting in the way.

its like we shifted into the Shadowrun timeline only without the Great Ghost Dance 2.0 part.  FASA got the concentration camps right, but put the wrong minority group into 'em.


Only in this timeline magic doesn't come back, so no great equalizer.

The human version of lofwyr is even worse cause he's so insecure and not as close to dirty as any being comes.
 
2018-09-14 05:07:55 AM  

Weaver95: fusillade762: Soon corporations will rule us without having to worry about any pesky government getting in the way.

its like we shifted into the Shadowrun timeline only without the Great Ghost Dance 2.0 part.  FASA got the concentration camps right, but put the wrong minority group into 'em.


Maybe Seattle will get lucky as a city-state.
 
2018-09-14 05:08:43 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: This is something that has really impressed me here in Norwayland. There are so many meetings. Kids in school vote on their class rules (for real! and they are pretty strict, actually). Buildings vote on whether to add a fence. There are groups for reducing traffic on streets, preserving little parks, adding bike lanes. People actually go to city council meetings, and not just the crazies. Every workplace has elected employee representatives. There is tons of democracy at all levels, all the time. I never felt that way in the US.


Murica is a nation of rugged individuals who don't care for group activities.

Seriously, we have a really strong cultural fixation on value of the individual versus the group. Ironic that the group who shouts "snowflake" as an insult thinks laws don't apply to them, that the government is "messing with my life" or "taxation is theft"

There are people who think that when the world ends, the best way to survive is to hunker down with a bunch of supplies and....something. This is more a metaphor then it is about that weird mindset.
 
2018-09-14 05:09:39 AM  
I have a solution.

Merge my body and mind with a Great Old One from beyond the plane of sanity. I'll become an eternal philosopher-king with every one of my unsleeping eyes locked upon you at your filthiest moments. I will make everybody unhappy rather than attempt to achieve an impractical middle ground. I will nuke every HOA from orbit, though sadly for you that also means destroying what you pretend to own. I will compose prose-poetry which even lawyers cannot decipher. My favorite color is green.

You may not like the outcome, but I have a solution nonetheless.
 
2018-09-14 05:32:09 AM  

casual disregard: I have a solution.

Merge my body and mind with a Great Old One from beyond the plane of sanity. I'll become an eternal philosopher-king with every one of my unsleeping eyes locked upon you at your filthiest moments. I will make everybody unhappy rather than attempt to achieve an impractical middle ground. I will nuke every HOA from orbit, though sadly for you that also means destroying what you pretend to own. I will compose prose-poetry which even lawyers cannot decipher. My favorite color is green.

You may not like the outcome, but I have a solution nonetheless.


We don't need another Ted Cruz, thank you.
 
2018-09-14 05:32:19 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: This is something that has really impressed me here in Norwayland. There are so many meetings. Kids in school vote on their class rules (for real! and they are pretty strict, actually). Buildings vote on whether to add a fence. There are groups for reducing traffic on streets, preserving little parks, adding bike lanes. People actually go to city council meetings, and not just the crazies. Every workplace has elected employee representatives. There is tons of democracy at all levels, all the time. I never felt that way in the US.


Shouldn't we be concerned about the self-aware architecture making executive decisions on city planning or are there not enough people in Norway for it to make a difference?
 
2018-09-14 05:33:32 AM  
America needs more clubs with charters and parliamentary rules, you know Robert's Rules of Order.

And then we need to decide who belongs in those clubs, like fraternities and daughters of the confederacy.

And by the time we're done, we'll have completely captured the spirit of 1890 all over again and America will be a Better Place.

or we could just spend an half hour a day complaining on Fark and lose the obnoxious puffery.
 
2018-09-14 05:34:11 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: Beta Tested:

I, too, am a big fan of the way things are run in Norway.

We should have a Fark party Oslo - all 2 (3?) of us could show up (and elect a president, secretary, etc.)


3, I think, all American ex-pats too if I remember correctly.  No meet ups for me though, I highly value my anonymity for when the "Nazi" accusations occasionally fly my way.
 
2018-09-14 05:37:55 AM  

Weaver95: BlueDWarrior: It doesn't help that there has been a cultural zeitgeist fort the last 50 years telling people that persistent political action is worthless and you should put all your faith into a singular individual to enact the "Glorious Revolution" in one fell swoop.

not to mention that campaign finance laws and the bulk of our entire political process is designed to keep out the poor and anyone who isn't able or willing to carpet bomb congress with money.  then there's a corporate run and owned press that's more interested in creating and prolonging conflict to boost ratings, an electorate too lazy to do its own homework, fanatics knowingly corrupting the process with malice aforethought because they think their gods want them to BSOD the federal government (spoiler alert: he doesn't care about the federal government).

*sigh*

so there's a LOT of reasons why this country stopped practicing 'democracy'.  did you know some of my local trumpers are so anti-intellectual and opposed to knowing even basic facts that they tried to jump down my throat for reminding them that Puerto Rico is a US territory?  think about how BADLY misinformed you'd have to be to not know something like that about this country, then double down on your ignorance and attack people for pointing out you were wrong.  now imagine an entire political faction that does exactly that sort of thing on every issue.....and that's why we've got a problem.


-no one can buy your vote until you decide to sell it
-you're lack of participation can't be blamed on what a Trumpster is doing (or neonazis for that matter)..

Everything is about who is getting victimized these days, that's the real problem.
 
2018-09-14 05:40:36 AM  
FTA -- Every time Trump does something that just isn't done, he all but guarantees it will be done again in the future.

Hmmm. If only we had a way to make some of this crap illegal.
 
2018-09-14 05:46:03 AM  

Beta Tested: Odin's Other Eye: Beta Tested:

I, too, am a big fan of the way things are run in Norway.

We should have a Fark party Oslo - all 2 (3?) of us could show up (and elect a president, secretary, etc.)

3, I think, all American ex-pats too if I remember correctly.  No meet ups for me though, I highly value my anonymity for when the "Nazi" accusations occasionally fly my way.


img.fark.netView Full Size

img.fark.netView Full Size

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 05:58:10 AM  

casual disregard: I have a solution.

Merge my body and mind with a Great Old One from beyond the plane of sanity. I'll become an eternal philosopher-king with every one of my unsleeping eyes locked upon you at your filthiest moments. I will make everybody unhappy rather than attempt to achieve an impractical middle ground. I will nuke every HOA from orbit, though sadly for you that also means destroying what you pretend to own. I will compose prose-poetry which even lawyers cannot decipher. My favorite color is green.

You may not like the outcome, but I have a solution nonetheless.


Reminded me of this...

If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

All hail PA
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/20​0​6/04/10
 
2018-09-14 06:00:53 AM  

Weaver95: fusillade762: Soon corporations will rule us without having to worry about any pesky government getting in the way.

its like we shifted into the Shadowrun timeline only without the Great Ghost Dance 2.0 part.  FASA got the concentration camps right, but put the wrong minority group into 'em.


So when do we get magic?
 
2018-09-14 06:03:39 AM  
Shiat, a lot of Americans are no longer occupying the same reality.  It's full-on In the Mouth of Madness.
 
2018-09-14 06:08:49 AM  
We still have democracy.  We just have to redefine "democracy" to mean, "After voters select from two whole candidates, there is a seventy percent chance the one with the most votes will win".

Kind of brings a tear to this old eye...
 
2018-09-14 06:17:01 AM  
Democracy is a most unnatural act. People have no innate democratic instinct; we are not born yearning to set aside our own desires in favor of the majority's. Democracy is, instead, an acquired habit.

Like most habits, democratic behavior develops slowly over time, through constant repetition. For two centuries, the United States was distinguished by its mania for democracy: From early childhood, Americans learned to be citizens by creating, joining, and participating in democratic organizations. But in recent decades, Americans have fallen out of practice, or even failed to acquire the habit of democracy in the first place.


Uhh, you got, like, any statistics on that? Like, say, historical numbers on the percentage of the eligible voting population that actually voted? 'Cause all I'm seeing in the entire farking article is vague claims about the history of American political habits with approximately zero information to back them up.

I mean, you could make an argument based on historical information that people have simply become less active in voting and participating in the democratic process, but from what I understand, most of that information only goes back to, at most, the '30s, while TFA feels perfectly comfortable making claims that early, presumably 19th-century Americans had a "mania for democracy" without any sort of actual evidence that would justify such a narrative or back it up in any way.

These Moldbug-esque tirades are stupid as hell. I had the unfortunate experience of googling "bioleninism" a couple weeks ago and was met with some guy's blog post that was about as ultimately informative and in-depth as this one. Why do people waste their time with this crap? I guess it's because the people who know enough to tear it apart have better things to do.
 
2018-09-14 06:23:25 AM  

Gamiac: Democracy is a most unnatural act. People have no innate democratic instinct; we are not born yearning to set aside our own desires in favor of the majority's. Democracy is, instead, an acquired habit.

Like most habits, democratic behavior develops slowly over time, through constant repetition. For two centuries, the United States was distinguished by its mania for democracy: From early childhood, Americans learned to be citizens by creating, joining, and participating in democratic organizations. But in recent decades, Americans have fallen out of practice, or even failed to acquire the habit of democracy in the first place.

Uhh, you got, like, any statistics on that? Like, say, historical numbers on the percentage of the eligible voting population that actually voted? 'Cause all I'm seeing in the entire farking article is vague claims about the history of American political habits with approximately zero information to back them up.

I mean, you could make an argument based on historical information that people have simply become less active in voting and participating in the democratic process, but from what I understand, most of that information only goes back to, at most, the '30s, while TFA feels perfectly comfortable making claims that early, presumably 19th-century Americans had a "mania for democracy" without any sort of actual evidence that would justify such a narrative or back it up in any way.

These Moldbug-esque tirades are stupid as hell. I had the unfortunate experience of googling "bioleninism" a couple weeks ago and was met with some guy's blog post that was about as ultimately informative and in-depth as this one. Why do people waste their time with this crap? I guess it's because the people who know enough to tear it apart have better things to do.


and yet here you are!
 
2018-09-14 06:48:57 AM  

Lady J: casual disregard: I have a solution.

Merge my body and mind with a Great Old One from beyond the plane of sanity. I'll become an eternal philosopher-king with every one of my unsleeping eyes locked upon you at your filthiest moments. I will make everybody unhappy rather than attempt to achieve an impractical middle ground. I will nuke every HOA from orbit, though sadly for you that also means destroying what you pretend to own. I will compose prose-poetry which even lawyers cannot decipher. My favorite color is green.

You may not like the outcome, but I have a solution nonetheless.

Reminded me of this...

If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

All hail PA
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/200​6/04/10


That took me on a fun little potter about through penny arcade. This is lulz...

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 07:22:56 AM  
Actually, if both parties are collapsing it'll open up the field to more independent candidates. Sounds to me like a good thing for democracy.
 
2018-09-14 07:24:48 AM  

ShonenBat: Actually, if both parties are collapsing it'll open up the field to more independent candidates. Sounds to me like a good thing for democracy.


the ONLY thing that will make a republican agree with a democrat is that they both have to stick together to keep third parties out of the mix.
 
2018-09-14 07:26:02 AM  

ShonenBat: Actually, if both parties are collapsing it'll open up the field to more independent candidates. Sounds to me like a good thing for democracy.


Given how the legislature works, you'll get chaos for some time and then two new superparties forming, basically like the 1850s and 60s.
 
2018-09-14 07:26:50 AM  
Our fault for following the guidelines of the Founding Fathers by living in a Representative Republic rather than a pure democracy.
 
2018-09-14 07:32:21 AM  
The old "take something old and pretend it is new because reality doesn't match up with romantic notions indoctrinated in you as a kid" story again. That sure makes me thinks you're an astute person with valuable insight into current events.
 
2018-09-14 07:51:44 AM  
Reagan took democracy out back and put two in its head. Every administration since has just been a prevailing shadow of it, with Dems sometimes reviving its memory and the GOP increasingly erasing it from history.

/fight me
 
2018-09-14 08:00:10 AM  

Weaver95: conservatives blame the libruls.  libruls blame the conservatives.  meanwhile, our giant asshole of a president is busy gloating over 3k dead brown people in puerto rico, and pretending he's still running the country.  The GOP is pushing hard as they can to get an evangelical nut job and lying perjuring f*cktard on SCOTUS.  And nobody has any idea if our mid term elections are gonna get hacked by a hostile foreign power or not.

*shrug*

I know whom I think is largely responsible for the mess this country has become...but ain't nobody gonna listen to what I got to say.  so I guess I just keep my head down, try and get by as best I can day by day until something changes for the better.


Go out and volunteer for the Democrats if you think that would improve the situation.
Any time or money you can donate to help sway undecideds will help, even running a voter registration booth in a public place over the weekend could help, or knocking on doors a few evenings, would help.

It's better than keeping your head down and hoping someone comes along to save you.
 
2018-09-14 08:11:02 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 08:38:40 AM  
Unrestrained capitalism kills democracy and the two are not binary.
 
2018-09-14 08:41:06 AM  
cdn-images-1.medium.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 08:41:22 AM  
We tossed out "land of the free & home of the brave" & replaced it with willful ignorance.

Frankly im all out of sympathy, America deserves everything thats coming. In the end it will better for mankind as a whole. Perhaps future generations will decide that facts and reality actually matter more than fear & distrust.
 
2018-09-14 08:53:23 AM  
i.redditmedia.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-14 08:55:27 AM  

chewd: We tossed out "land of the free & home of the brave"


That was propaganda from the start. We were founded as essentially a white ethno-state predicated on land ownership, evolved into a white ethno-state predicated on land ownership that profits from human ownership, then further evolved into a state predicated on being white or land and capital ownership, all the while using the lower classes to feed the furnace of expansion and war required to maintain Pax Americana.

Most of our history is propaganda. We only take credit for the things we manage to accomplish that we can spin to make ourselves look good, then repeat that ad nauseam, usually in stupid chants that mean nothing. Not mentioned are our many, many atrocities. "Remember how we're racist? Still?", "We firebombed poor farmers! Woooo!", "Overthrowing democratically elected governments for several hundred years", "We're Number 1... in prison population", or "We're.... 38th in quality of life" doesn't play well with the illusion we've built ourselves.
 
2018-09-14 08:58:28 AM  

Odin's Other Eye: This is something that has really impressed me here in Norwayland. There are so many meetings. Kids in school vote on their class rules (for real! and they are pretty strict, actually). Buildings vote on whether to add a fence. There are groups for reducing traffic on streets, preserving little parks, adding bike lanes. People actually go to city council meetings, and not just the crazies. Every workplace has elected employee representatives. There is tons of democracy at all levels, all the time. I never felt that way in the US.


It used to be, apparently, until post-WWII.
 
2018-09-14 09:01:56 AM  
Our country has been a lie from our inception. We were taught that the lie was true and to question it was unpatriotic.
 
2018-09-14 09:20:42 AM  
This is news?  We haven't been for decades.
 
2018-09-14 09:25:53 AM  
Perhaps not, but some of us still practice liberty.

/chambers a round
 
2018-09-14 09:38:13 AM  

Weaver95: ShonenBat: Actually, if both parties are collapsing it'll open up the field to more independent candidates. Sounds to me like a good thing for democracy.

the ONLY thing that will make a republican agree with a democrat is that they both have to stick together to keep third parties out of the mix.


Or just a progressive Democrat.
 
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