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(YouTube)   National Solar Observatory in New Mexico closed because it was hacked by the Chinese and used to spy on our military   ( youtube.com) divider line
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1408 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Sep 2018 at 2:50 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-09-13 02:09:34 PM  
Then why is it STILL closed, I wonder.
 
2018-09-13 02:42:40 PM  
Technically possible but a lot of trouble to go to when you via much simpler means.
 
2018-09-13 02:53:35 PM  
So why evacuate the post office?
 
2018-09-13 03:02:05 PM  
The notes under that link read like a panic button that refuses to come un-stuck.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-13 03:02:50 PM  
Oh, I thought this was going to be real not a "what if" pinata.
 
2018-09-13 03:11:00 PM  
Well, I am convinced.
 
2018-09-13 03:14:30 PM  
So that's why the telescope was always pointing towards Los Alamos when I come in in the morning. Just thought third shift was watching the WACs in the showers again.
 
2018-09-13 03:15:41 PM  
DNRTFA but, is this story really worth 3 greens in one day?  Or are the Modmins on acid
 
2018-09-13 03:18:23 PM  
That's just what they want you to think! Study it out!
 
2018-09-13 03:19:46 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: So that's why the telescope was always pointing towards Los Alamos when I come in in the morning. Just thought third shift was watching the WACs in the showers again.


I remember working for NREL back in the day. We were under DOE guidelines for security and whatnot, including special steps for people heading out of country to places like China, to my continual amusement.

Like, what, we're worried China's going to steal our next big breakthrough in Solar Power?
 
2018-09-13 03:19:54 PM  

Kit Fister: That's just what they want you to think! Study it out!


WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY, KENNETH?
 
2018-09-13 03:23:22 PM  
It's closed for National Security.

Antenna arrays at the Observatory were being used by Members of the Deep State to spy on Trump's secret meetings.
 
2018-09-13 03:25:11 PM  

E.S.Q.: WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY, KENNETH?


69 MHz on the FM side!

/you're listening to WKNKY...
 
2018-09-13 03:29:37 PM  

Kit Fister: Harry Freakstorm: So that's why the telescope was always pointing towards Los Alamos when I come in in the morning. Just thought third shift was watching the WACs in the showers again.

I remember working for NREL back in the day. We were under DOE guidelines for security and whatnot, including special steps for people heading out of country to places like China, to my continual amusement.

Like, what, we're worried China's going to steal our next big breakthrough in Solar Power?


What, you mean like they've done?

infographic.statista.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-13 03:32:13 PM  

dittybopper: Kit Fister: Harry Freakstorm: So that's why the telescope was always pointing towards Los Alamos when I come in in the morning. Just thought third shift was watching the WACs in the showers again.

I remember working for NREL back in the day. We were under DOE guidelines for security and whatnot, including special steps for people heading out of country to places like China, to my continual amusement.

Like, what, we're worried China's going to steal our next big breakthrough in Solar Power?

What, you mean like they've done?

[infographic.statista.com image 850x605]


There's a difference between "stealing the research" and companies just shipping production off to China because it's a farkload cheaper.
 
2018-09-13 03:49:49 PM  

Kit Fister: There's a difference between "stealing the research" and companies just shipping production off to China because it's a farkload cheaper.


Oh, the Chinese steal a *LOT* of research.

They're famous for it.
https://observer.com/2016/04/the-unpl​e​asant-truth-about-chinese-espionage/

Also, what that graph shows isn't US companies moving production overseas to China.  It's China dumping cheap solar panels on the market to drive US businesses under.
https://solar.gwu.edu/are-chinese-dum​p​ing-cheap-solar-panels-us-market
 
2018-09-13 03:51:19 PM  

Kit Fister: dittybopper: Kit Fister: Harry Freakstorm: So that's why the telescope was always pointing towards Los Alamos when I come in in the morning. Just thought third shift was watching the WACs in the showers again.

I remember working for NREL back in the day. We were under DOE guidelines for security and whatnot, including special steps for people heading out of country to places like China, to my continual amusement.

Like, what, we're worried China's going to steal our next big breakthrough in Solar Power?

What, you mean like they've done?

[infographic.statista.com image 850x605]

There's a difference between "stealing the research" and companies just shipping production off to China because it's a farkload cheaper.


Or China making huge investments in solar / wind production, unlike the US where we consider that hippy crap.

China is now both the largest producer and consumer of renewable tech, but it's not the high-end stuff such as what Solyndra made... It's old tech, made cheap with massive government investment in manufacturing and dumped on the international market to undercut competitors.

But yeah... it's the spying that led to that spike in production of old tech that's been out there for decades... (eyeroll)
 
2018-09-13 03:55:01 PM  

dittybopper: Kit Fister: There's a difference between "stealing the research" and companies just shipping production off to China because it's a farkload cheaper.

Oh, the Chinese steal a *LOT* of research.

They're famous for it.
https://observer.com/2016/04/the-unple​asant-truth-about-chinese-espionage/

Also, what that graph shows isn't US companies moving production overseas to China.  It's China dumping cheap solar panels on the market to drive US businesses under.
https://solar.gwu.edu/are-chinese-dump​ing-cheap-solar-panels-us-market



So, you're saying that China, as part of the global economy, was able to produce an equal product at a much cheaper price point than American companies -- many of whom sprang up when Obama put the stimulus into effect and subsidized them -- and as such, American companies closed because they couldn't compete?

That's...global economics 101, and the reason why a *lot* of US manufacturing is dying or gone.
 
2018-09-13 04:23:53 PM  

Mollari: DNRTFA but, is this story really worth 3 greens in one day?  Or are the Modmins on acid


The modmin on duty is Fancy Bear. He knows Farkers would rather hear about Chinese hackers than the boring Russian sort.
 
2018-09-13 04:54:42 PM  

Kit Fister: dittybopper: Kit Fister: There's a difference between "stealing the research" and companies just shipping production off to China because it's a farkload cheaper.

Oh, the Chinese steal a *LOT* of research.

They're famous for it.
https://observer.com/2016/04/the-unple​asant-truth-about-chinese-espionage/

Also, what that graph shows isn't US companies moving production overseas to China.  It's China dumping cheap solar panels on the market to drive US businesses under.
https://solar.gwu.edu/are-chinese-dump​ing-cheap-solar-panels-us-market


So, you're saying that China, as part of the global economy, was able to produce an equal product at a much cheaper price point than American companies -- many of whom sprang up when Obama put the stimulus into effect and subsidized them -- and as such, American companies closed because they couldn't compete?

That's...global economics 101, and the reason why a *lot* of US manufacturing is dying or gone.


Looks less like Chinese malfeasance (without denying that they definitely do it) and more like American default on solar generation compared to others.
 
2018-09-13 05:19:09 PM  

aungen: The notes under that link read like a panic button that refuses to come un-stuck.

[img.fark.net image 225x225]


I LOOKED AT THE ADS! MOMMY, HELP ME!
 
2018-09-13 05:45:47 PM  
We have military bases on the sun?
 
2018-09-13 08:45:57 PM  

Kit Fister: dittybopper: Kit Fister: There's a difference between "stealing the research" and companies just shipping production off to China because it's a farkload cheaper.

Oh, the Chinese steal a *LOT* of research.

They're famous for it.
https://observer.com/2016/04/the-unple​asant-truth-about-chinese-espionage/

Also, what that graph shows isn't US companies moving production overseas to China.  It's China dumping cheap solar panels on the market to drive US businesses under.
https://solar.gwu.edu/are-chinese-dump​ing-cheap-solar-panels-us-market


So, you're saying that China, as part of the global economy, was able to produce an equal product at a much cheaper price point than American companies -- many of whom sprang up when Obama put the stimulus into effect and subsidized them -- and as such, American companies closed because they couldn't compete?

That's...global economics 101, and the reason why a *lot* of US manufacturing is dying or gone.


Yeah, well, when you pay your workers less than $300 a month, you can make stuff so cheap you can dump it on the market and drive competitors who have to pay a decent wage out of business.

I worked for a company that was literally driven out of business after China was NTR'd.
 
2018-09-13 10:47:13 PM  

Wellon Dowd: We have military bases on the sun?


No, but the aliens are hiding their ships in the coronosphere so our space telescopes can't detect them by visual means. The telescope in New Mexico had advanced technology to detect the ships by filtering out solar radiation.
The aliens have plants in the government and this is just the alien's way of keeping the ships a secret before the invasion.
 
2018-09-13 11:33:51 PM  
"Overlooks white sands missile range".  ....Hold the fark up!
Yea. The espionage thing sounds a bit more plausible I guess.

Someone mounted some spy equipment to the tower, maybe?
 
2018-09-14 01:39:07 AM  
Hadn't heard about this, well until now. I know a few people up Cloudcroft way, I might try to get ahold of one or two. Folks in small towns are a nosy lot, if there is anything to know they will find out.
 
2018-09-14 01:42:25 AM  

dittybopper: Yeah, well, when you pay your workers less than $300 a month, you can make stuff so cheap you can dump it on the market and drive competitors who have to pay a decent wage out of business.

I worked for a company that was literally driven out of business after China was NTR'd.


That's why it's incredibly stupid to subsidize your companies that compete with other businesses that are also subsidized. We should've just said "thanks for the cheap solar panels" and when they get tired of wasting money, start competing. The entire reason stupidity so often wins is because people treat it as a competitive sport.
 
2018-09-14 01:48:29 AM  
To clairify I meant the 'if there is anything to know they will find out' as a generic group of small town folk. Not that I could call up a couple of people and get 100% of the true story, I'd probably not come up with more than their guesses. I know lots of people but I'm not 'connected' to those in the know. Might be interesting to get a semi-local idea or two though.

Personally the close proximity to White Sands Missle Range seems like this is a spying issue of some sort, at least to me.
 
2018-09-14 01:50:59 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: dittybopper: Yeah, well, when you pay your workers less than $300 a month, you can make stuff so cheap you can dump it on the market and drive competitors who have to pay a decent wage out of business.

I worked for a company that was literally driven out of business after China was NTR'd.

That's why it's incredibly stupid to subsidize your companies that compete with other businesses that are also subsidized. We should've just said "thanks for the cheap solar panels" and when they get tired of wasting money, start competing. The entire reason stupidity so often wins is because people treat it as a competitive sport.


Certain resources should be kept in your control tho.
I don't think they are subsidizing solar just to compete, they also intend to control the world market. Like a big box store that opens with sale prices, it just does that to kill off the smaller businesses. Once gone they can raise the prices and largely control the technology. For others to jump back into the game they'd have to spend money and time, and they risk getting shut out again by another round of subsidized competition.  Banks wouldn't be keen to play that game.

Since things like energy and food and steel are critical national resources, you'd want to subsidize your own just to keep some reserve capability. Likely paid for by tariffs on the competition when you control a large number if their customers.
 
2018-09-14 07:09:36 AM  

dittybopper: Yeah, well, when you pay your workers less than $300 a month, you can make stuff so cheap you can dump it on the market and drive competitors who have to pay a decent wage out of business.

I worked for a company that was literally driven out of business after China was NTR'd.


And in a global economy, that's how it's always going to be. Manufactured goods will be made wherever they can get the minimum acceptable quality at the cheapest price, same as any other commodity.

That's what labor is in an economy, a commodity. You've heard the old term "vote with your dollars"? Well, suck it up, buttercup, because that's exactly what happens: Few people are willing to spend (or, increasingly, able to afford) the extra cost to buy products made here in the US as opposed to goods made overseas where it's cheaper.

You could always try to do what Trump's doing and impose tariffs on goods on the theory that the prices of foreign goods will increase to match or go higher than domestic goods, but that only works if everything from the raw materials to the technology and skills to manufacture and distribute exist entirely within your own borders.  It doesn't work in a globalized economy because those same tariffs will turn around and bite you in the ass as it drives up the prices of raw materials you need to import to continue to produce goods, precisely as our trade war with China is once again demonstrating.

And even if you managed to somehow cut the overall costs of a company here in the US to match the operating costs of, say, China or Malaysia, you'd then face economic factors like foreign powers jacking up the prices of raw materials or restricting their exports in order to give their own businesses the economic advantage, especially in cases like rare earth materials used in electronics which are found only in specific geographic regions we don't control, making us dependent on those foreign powers either way.
The only way you manage to balance it all out in such a system, in my opinion, is to go all-in on a globalized economy, hammering out treaties like NAFTA and the TPP -- except going a step further where nations have specific economic agreements and contracts to exchange goods so that countries poor in resources to manufacture can trade other goods or services to countries rich in them on an equal and equitable basis, allowing all to flourish.Of course, that sort of system is also dependent on an economic circumstance where no one is trying to get the upper hand or get greedy in the attempt to maximize their own benefit over others, which runs directly counter to basic human nature and will never happen. So, here we are in a system where everyone works towards their own benefit from a national standpoint on down the line.  Governments have to varying degrees made efforts to try and equalize things, which is where taxes and social programs should, and do, come into play in order to prevent abject feudalism and balance out greed, especially as automation and new technologies reduce the need for human labor, which otherwise would be excess population above and beyond the "carrying capacity" of our environment.
 
2018-09-14 10:47:21 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: dittybopper: Yeah, well, when you pay your workers less than $300 a month, you can make stuff so cheap you can dump it on the market and drive competitors who have to pay a decent wage out of business.

I worked for a company that was literally driven out of business after China was NTR'd.

That's why it's incredibly stupid to subsidize your companies that compete with other businesses that are also subsidized. We should've just said "thanks for the cheap solar panels" and when they get tired of wasting money, start competing. The entire reason stupidity so often wins is because people treat it as a competitive sport.


It doesn't work that way.  Once a company is driven out of business, it's *GONE*.  You can't just magically shiat out factories and trained workers on a whim.  And aside from that, you've got the psychological factor:  Who is going to invest in a business where the expectation is that you're going to be undersold by overseas businesses paying slave wages?

We've been in an economic war with China for over 2 decades now, and we've been getting our asses royally handed to us.  Just so you can buy that $1 package of socks at Wal*Mart.  China should have never been given permanent normalized trade relation status.  Especially not after Tienanmen Square.

They've actually got a *PLAN*.  They think the 21st Century is going to be "China's Century", just like the 20th Century was "America's Century".  They actually want to supplant the US as the dominant world superpower.  And because they have an essentially unbroken power structure that doesn't change hands between different political parties like the US does, and because unlike the US the government has pretty much unlimited control over industry, they can make plans that last for decades without being scrapped by political opponents when they get in power, because there are no political opponents of any worth to the Chinese Communist Party.

But they can't do that without our help, and for nearly 3 decades, we've been helping them by allowing them to flood the market with cheap, inexpensive goods.  Nobody cared back when all they could produce was cheap plastic trinkets and the aforementioned cheap socks, but now a very large part of our high-tech stuff is built in China.

Which is also a strategic military problem.  Without a decent domestic high tech manufacturing base, we can't make the high-tech weaponry we might need to use in the future against China without some Chinese parts.  That's a problem from a supply issue, and also from a "we can remotely brick your computerized weapons" standpoint if we do come to blows with China, either directly or in some kind of proxy war.
 
2018-09-14 10:50:11 AM  

Kit Fister: And in a global economy, that's how it's always going to be. Manufactured goods will be made wherever they can get the minimum acceptable quality at the cheapest price, same as any other commodity.


And there is the problem right there.

You're looking at it solely from an economic standpoint without considering the political and military implications.

There are situations where it costs less in the long run to pay more upfront.
 
2018-09-14 03:13:48 PM  
Waited a day, and I knew the thread would explain what really happened (hint: it'll never be aliens...) 

Did they hack the post office, too?
 
2018-09-14 10:26:03 PM  

dittybopper: Kit Fister: And in a global economy, that's how it's always going to be. Manufactured goods will be made wherever they can get the minimum acceptable quality at the cheapest price, same as any other commodity.

And there is the problem right there.

You're looking at it solely from an economic standpoint without considering the political and military implications.

There are situations where it costs less in the long run to pay more upfront.


China invested in massive solar production while the US was sucking Inhoef's snowballs. That's why they're eating the US's lunch. The same thing happened when the Japanese crashed the US steel industry, not because their spies found some new Bessemer tech.
 
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