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(Stars and Stripes)   New VA Secretary opposes benefits for sailors exposed to Agent Orange in the Vietnam War, apparently because they can't prove they're not just old belly-aching crybabies who can't power through soft-tissue sarcoma and amyloidosis without a handout   ( stripes.com) divider line
    More: Murica, United States Senate, Water Navy veterans, United States Congress, Vietnam War, Blue Water, Blue Water Navy, Agent Orange, Wilkie  
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1102 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2018 at 7:39 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-09-12 04:21:39 PM  
Liars.  They were never exposed to Agent Orange.  He got all those deferments for his "bone spurs."
 
2018-09-12 04:26:21 PM  
The VA is conducting a study to compare the health of deployed Vietnam War veterans, including Blue Water Navy veterans, to others of similar age who weren't deployed. Wilkie urged senators to wait until the study publishes in late 2019 before deciding on the legislation.

"Look, we got mid-terms in a couple of months and we got to keep the vets voting for the GOP.  After that, we can get back to screwing them over"
 
2018-09-12 04:31:32 PM  
A veteran should get benefits for cancer even if it is not related to exposure to harmful chemicals while in the service.

And so should every American.
 
2018-09-12 04:35:23 PM  
People who insult veterans should have to develop permanent explosive diarrhea.
 
2018-09-12 04:42:14 PM  
Dickhead.

Perhaps he doesn't remember Admiral Zumwalt and his son, who served on the river boats and died in his early 40's as well as having a disabled son.  Zumwalt (and his son before he died) spoke out about Agent Orange being responsible.
 
2018-09-12 05:04:59 PM  

Dewey Fidalgo: Dickhead.

Perhaps he doesn't remember Admiral Zumwalt and his son, who served on the river boats and died in his early 40's as well as having a disabled son.  Zumwalt (and his son before he died) spoke out about Agent Orange being responsible.


Those are, presumably, "brown water" boats, and they're covered. These are the larger boats, that stayed in so-called "blue water," and have had a devil of a time proving that Agent Orange traveled far enough out into the bays and seas around Vietnam to qualify for coverage. Although the Aussies took care of their people who were in the same situation decades ago.

The vets who fall into this category know damn well what's going on in Congress as they and their shipmates fall ill and die. It passed the House, unanimously if I recall correctly, and looked like it was going to sail through right until Wilkie came on board and became the turd in the punch bowl. I bet a disturbing amount of them are going to still vote R in the midterms too.
 
2018-09-12 07:06:47 PM  
'Agent Orange' is the code that the secret service gives the poor agent who has to a stand in the bathroom with Trump while he Tweets on the toilet.
 
2018-09-12 07:12:14 PM  
I didn't know that Trump smelled THAT bad....

/ Agent Orange is probably his code name....
 
2018-09-12 07:22:13 PM  
Good to know somebody has their back. He's holding a knife to them but still, he's got their back.
 
2018-09-12 07:36:24 PM  
Remember, Trump things Agent Orange is napalm and his source for this is his mixed-up memory of Apocalypse Now.

/not joking - there was a Fark thread on this.
 
2018-09-12 07:42:02 PM  
To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?
 
2018-09-12 07:42:48 PM  
egbertowillies.comView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 07:46:43 PM  
I've never understood how issues surrounding the VA could be so controversial.
This is literally the easiest thing you could possibly choose to work on.
With all the crap we choose to spend money on, taking care of people who have served this country just seems like a no-brainer.  I can't think of a single reason why anyone would not be tripping over themselves to support getting their facilities up to top-notch levels
 
2018-09-12 07:46:56 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: A veteran should get benefits for cancer even if it is not related to exposure to harmful chemicals while in the service.

And so should every American.


I haven't read TFA, but as a veteran in the VA health care system, I can say every veteran discharged on good terms gets medical care for everything. They are probably talking about Agent Orange exposure related to service-connected disability benefits (a check every month to make up for your disabiliyt diminishing your capacity to work).
 
2018-09-12 07:47:06 PM  

kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?


Obama's guy did a great job with the VA, but we cannot have that now.

So we put a guy in charge with no medical background who has been a lackey all of his life.

A guy who worked for Trent Lotte.
 
2018-09-12 07:48:05 PM  

mrshowrules: Remember, Trump things Agent Orange is napalm and his source for this is his mixed-up memory of Apocalypse Now.

/not joking - there was a Fark thread on this.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-a​n​d-omarosa-had-a-farking-weird-fight-wi​th-vietnam-vets
After some vocal public shaming from military veterans and advocates, Trump, accompanied by Manigault-Newman, met with principals from various vets organizations in the Roosevelt Room on March 17, 2017.
...
During the course of the meeting, Weidman brought up the issue of Agent Orange, an extremely notorious component of the U.S. herbicidal warfare on Vietnam. Weidman was imploring the president and his team to permit access to benefits for a broader number of vets who have said they were poisoned by Agent Orange.
Trump responded by saying, "That's taken care of," according to people in the room.
His reply puzzled the group.

Attendees began explaining to the president that the VA had not made enough progress on the issue at all, to which Trump responded by abruptly derailing the meeting and asking the attendees if Agent Orange was "that stuff from that movie."
...
Source present at the time tell The Daily Beast that multiple people-including Vietnam War veterans-chimed in to inform the president that the Apocalypse Now set piece he was talking about showcased the U.S. military using napalm, not Agent Orange.

Trump refused to accept that he was mistaken and proceeded to say things like, "no, I think it's that stuff from that movie."

Trump is a walking, talking, gaslight.
 
2018-09-12 07:50:16 PM  
Agent Orange goes into the trees.  Leaves fall off and into the rivers.  Rivers run to the sea.  US Navy ships desalinate water and US Sailors drink it.

Anyone that gives an actual shiat about veterans issues shouldn't be voting for Republicans.
 
2018-09-12 07:51:39 PM  
[Wikipedia] Up to four million people in Vietnam were exposed to the defoliant. The government of Vietnam says as many as 3 million people have suffered illnesses because of Agent Orange.[3] The Red Cross of Vietnam estimates that up to 1 million people are disabled or have health problems as a result of Agent Orange contamination.[4] The United States government has challenged these figures as being unreliable.[5]

[Agent Orange Record] Vietnam today is no enemy, but one of America's strongest Asian allies. Yet the dioxin from Agent Orange is placing a new generation at risk on both sides of the Pacific. The newly cooperative relationship between the two countries lets us work together to address the ongoing health and environmental impacts of Agent Orange.
 
DVD [TotalFark]
2018-09-12 07:51:52 PM  

whidbey: People who insult veterans should have to develop permanent explosive diarrhea.


There are a few Farkers who might take offence to that statement?

One thing that Beto might do is come out more strongly for specific vet issues and stay loud on them.  That would help in Texas, quite a lot of GOP veterans in Texas.
 
2018-09-12 07:52:08 PM  

kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?


Because some of us want to live for something greater than ourselves. We don't do it for the benefits, we do it for our country and all the people within.
 
2018-09-12 07:53:36 PM  
John McCain was in the Navy during the Vietnam War, and he got cancer.

That's probably the reason Trump is going out of his way to f*ck over the people who got cancer while serving in the Navy during the Vietnam War. He's almost certainly doing this specifically to spite McCain, and for some reason I'm pretty sure that Trump isn't gonna let some minor detail like "McCain died nearly a month ago" stop him from trying to hurt someone he doesn't like.
 
2018-09-12 07:53:59 PM  
He likes soldiers who weren't cancered.
 
2018-09-12 07:54:49 PM  

kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?


Most veterans I've met have been at the wrong end of bureaucratic errors. At least two had to scramble to save their GI Bill grant while taking classes because of someone's mistake. It's something to be aware of.

One thing I really don't get is why in the hell republican types are so gung-ho for a government apparatus that trains, feeds, clothes, houses, cares for, and then pays a bunch of young people with no prior professional experience. Sounds like some sort of bullshiat make-work socialism.
 
2018-09-12 07:57:10 PM  
Honestly, we just shouldn't give out Veteran's healthcare at all.

We shouldn't support soldiers who lose limbs, get shot, suffer trauma and other ailments that come from wars and combat.  After all, we like soldiers who come back fully intact and able bodied and don't get damaged or captured.  If we support soldiers who get injured, then they'll just get injured to collect that sweet sweet disability check, and that's commie socialist welfare.

So thank you for your service if you came back fully able bodied and without any mental health problems, otherwise, you need to be punished for not doing your best.

I'll stick a little ribbon on my roll-coal pickup for you though, so you know I still support ya.
 
2018-09-12 07:59:49 PM  

mgshamster: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Because some of us want to live for something greater than ourselves. We don't do it for the benefits, we do it for our country and all the people within.


When was the last time the US military acted in accordance with something greater than an individual's life?  First Gulf War?  World War 2?  How many times does the US government have to send people to die for no good reason before you stop and think?

There are plenty of other careers where you can make a greater contribution to society than the US military. Long gone are the days of the armed forces being used for righteousness.
 
2018-09-12 08:01:27 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Dewey Fidalgo: Dickhead.

Perhaps he doesn't remember Admiral Zumwalt and his son, who served on the river boats and died in his early 40's as well as having a disabled son.  Zumwalt (and his son before he died) spoke out about Agent Orange being responsible.

Those are, presumably, "brown water" boats, and they're covered. These are the larger boats, that stayed in so-called "blue water," and have had a devil of a time proving that Agent Orange traveled far enough out into the bays and seas around Vietnam to qualify for coverage. Although the Aussies took care of their people who were in the same situation decades ago.

The vets who fall into this category know damn well what's going on in Congress as they and their shipmates fall ill and die. It passed the House, unanimously if I recall correctly, and looked like it was going to sail through right until Wilkie came on board and became the turd in the punch bowl. I bet a disturbing amount of them are going to still vote R in the midterms too.


My Dad was a brown water river rat on the Mekong.  They were exposed to all sorts of dioxin from spraying, etc.  Lots of his friends got mystery cancers.  One of the things not talked about often, and I don't know if this applies to blue water sailors, is that there was a practice of reusing the 40 gallon drums that the dioxins came in, giving em a quick rinse, then filling them with drinking water...  So these guys weren't just sprayed from above, they were actually fed that crap.
 
2018-09-12 08:02:05 PM  

UsikFark: mrshowrules: Remember, Trump things Agent Orange is napalm and his source for this is his mixed-up memory of Apocalypse Now.

/not joking - there was a Fark thread on this.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-an​d-omarosa-had-a-farking-weird-fight-wi​th-vietnam-vets
After some vocal public shaming from military veterans and advocates, Trump, accompanied by Manigault-Newman, met with principals from various vets organizations in the Roosevelt Room on March 17, 2017.
...
During the course of the meeting, Weidman brought up the issue of Agent Orange, an extremely notorious component of the U.S. herbicidal warfare on Vietnam. Weidman was imploring the president and his team to permit access to benefits for a broader number of vets who have said they were poisoned by Agent Orange.
Trump responded by saying, "That's taken care of," according to people in the room.
His reply puzzled the group.
Attendees began explaining to the president that the VA had not made enough progress on the issue at all, to which Trump responded by abruptly derailing the meeting and asking the attendees if Agent Orange was "that stuff from that movie."
...
Source present at the time tell The Daily Beast that multiple people-including Vietnam War veterans-chimed in to inform the president that the Apocalypse Now set piece he was talking about showcased the U.S. military using napalm, not Agent Orange.
Trump refused to accept that he was mistaken and proceeded to say things like, "no, I think it's that stuff from that movie."

Trump is a walking, talking, gaslight.


Does that mean the VA won't help veterans who were exposed to napalm either?
 
2018-09-12 08:02:10 PM  

mgshamster: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Because some of us want to live for something greater than ourselves. We don't do it for the benefits, we do it for our country and all the people within.


You were in ww2?
 
2018-09-12 08:02:12 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-09-12 08:02:38 PM  

DVD: whidbey: People who insult veterans should have to develop permanent explosive diarrhea.

There are a few Farkers who might take offence to that statement?

One thing that Beto might do is come out more strongly for specific vet issues and stay loud on them.  That would help in Texas, quite a lot of GOP veterans in Texas.


He has monthly meeting with veterans and has for the entire time he's held office.

My friend, who was a leader within Student Veterans of America and now lobbies on behalf of veterans in DC, was touting him for his Senate race basically as soon as he started having opportunities to talk with the guy.

There is no reason any human should vote for Cruz.

/Also, man, that 2012 election that got Cruz elected is fishy as hell, the switch from primary to runoff...
 
2018-09-12 08:03:15 PM  

UsikFark: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Most veterans I've met have been at the wrong end of bureaucratic errors. At least two had to scramble to save their GI Bill grant while taking classes because of someone's mistake. It's something to be aware of.

One thing I really don't get is why in the hell republican types are so gung-ho for a government apparatus that trains, feeds, clothes, houses, cares for, and then pays a bunch of young people with no prior professional experience. Sounds like some sort of bullshiat make-work socialism.


Bureaucratic errors are just a fact of life, for everyone.  It sucks, but people do make honest mistakes.  The VA problems we've seen over the years aren't merely boneheaded human errors though.  They are by design, apparently done to maximize the suffering of people that were promised and are entitled to certain benefits.  It should serve as a warning to anyone that wants to sign up today, "these people will not honor their word".
 
2018-09-12 08:06:18 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: A veteran should get benefits for cancer even if it is not related to exposure to harmful chemicals while in the service.

And so should every American.


This.

Fix the VA problem by instituting Medicare for All.
 
2018-09-12 08:06:54 PM  

kudayta: mgshamster: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Because some of us want to live for something greater than ourselves. We don't do it for the benefits, we do it for our country and all the people within.

When was the last time the US military acted in accordance with something greater than an individual's life?  First Gulf War?  World War 2?  How many times does the US government have to send people to die for no good reason before you stop and think?

There are plenty of other careers where you can make a greater contribution to society than the US military. Long gone are the days of the armed forces being used for righteousness.


I mean, it is a nice jobs and training program. I appreciated the pay and 100% job security while I figured out what I wanted to do, and having college and living expenses covered when I was done was wonderful. I also enjoyed putting nothing down on a house and not having to pay PMI.

It's a great socialist program, with its forced diversity, travel to other lands, relatively merit-based seniority system, etc.

It's just the getting sent to war part that sucks.
 
2018-09-12 08:08:10 PM  

kudayta: UsikFark: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Most veterans I've met have been at the wrong end of bureaucratic errors. At least two had to scramble to save their GI Bill grant while taking classes because of someone's mistake. It's something to be aware of.

One thing I really don't get is why in the hell republican types are so gung-ho for a government apparatus that trains, feeds, clothes, houses, cares for, and then pays a bunch of young people with no prior professional experience. Sounds like some sort of bullshiat make-work socialism.

Bureaucratic errors are just a fact of life, for everyone.  It sucks, but people do make honest mistakes.  The VA problems we've seen over the years aren't merely boneheaded human errors though.  They are by design, apparently done to maximize the suffering of people that were promised and are entitled to certain benefits.  It should serve as a warning to anyone that wants to sign up today, "these people will not honor their word".


I spend almost 20 years going to the VA with my dad for his treatments.

And a lot of it was terrible.  But the guy under Obama did wonders, and my southern GOP step dad, who was a hopspital administrator and clinic manager(for 40 years) who knew the business, saw the change, and admired how the guy could do it with such a huge system of clinics and hospitals.
 
2018-09-12 08:08:21 PM  
Long long ago I was involved in some of the attempts to get Agent Orange ailments listed as service connected. The VA was using a study done on Air Force members who were responsible for loading planes as their model for exposure and they weren't seeing many strong statistical links.

So they were using the guys who handled full barrels, with gloves and other personal protective gear, who got to take nice long hot showers afterwards, as the model for exposure --- comparing this to grunts in the field who would occasionally be in the field when the stuff was dropped, and were often sent into the field right after a drop. And guys who would sometimes load the stuff up into backpack sprayers to go out and personally spray it with no protective gear whatsoever. These guys weren't taking nice long hot showers afterwards but were sleeping out in the jungle, or what was left of the jungle, after the stuff had been rained down.

Oh, and the VA was denying that people were exposed in that way because they found manuals and instructions that said you weren't supposed to go into the field right after a defoliant spray, and you weren't supposed to use it in backpack sprayers, and it didn't matter that there was testimony that it nevertheless happened. The 80s were a magic time for the VA.
 
2018-09-12 08:10:43 PM  
Still voting for the republicans, my veteran brothers? STILL?


Sadly, the answer is probably yes.
 
2018-09-12 08:13:25 PM  

LiberalWeenie: I haven't read TFA, but as a veteran in the VA health care system, I can say every veteran discharged on good terms gets medical care for everything.


Ah, so I can take my DD-214 to the VA and get healthcare?
 
2018-09-12 08:14:01 PM  
The government knows if they can stall just a bit longer, it will mostly be a moot point.
 
2018-09-12 08:15:40 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: LiberalWeenie: I haven't read TFA, but as a veteran in the VA health care system, I can say every veteran discharged on good terms gets medical care for everything.

Ah, so I can take my DD-214 to the VA and get healthcare?


You did not know that?
 
2018-09-12 08:16:02 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: LiberalWeenie: I haven't read TFA, but as a veteran in the VA health care system, I can say every veteran discharged on good terms gets medical care for everything.

Ah, so I can take my DD-214 to the VA and get healthcare?


More or less, yes.

Just know that there may be some bureaucracy involved. Getting a lawyer is recommended, if you're planning on getting disability benefits.
 
2018-09-12 08:17:05 PM  

kudayta: UsikFark: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Most veterans I've met have been at the wrong end of bureaucratic errors. At least two had to scramble to save their GI Bill grant while taking classes because of someone's mistake. It's something to be aware of.

One thing I really don't get is why in the hell republican types are so gung-ho for a government apparatus that trains, feeds, clothes, houses, cares for, and then pays a bunch of young people with no prior professional experience. Sounds like some sort of bullshiat make-work socialism.

Bureaucratic errors are just a fact of life, for everyone.  It sucks, but people do make honest mistakes.  The VA problems we've seen over the years aren't merely boneheaded human errors though.  They are by design, apparently done to maximize the suffering of people that were promised and are entitled to certain benefits.  It should serve as a warning to anyone that wants to sign up today, "these people will not honor their word".


Yeah, but what would that do to recruitment?
 
2018-09-12 08:25:38 PM  

mrshowrules: Remember, Trump things Agent Orange is napalm and his source for this is his mixed-up memory of Apocalypse Now.

/not joking - there was a Fark thread on this.


In a meeting with Vietnam War veterans.  The only thing bigger than his cowardice is his ignorance.
 
2018-09-12 08:27:54 PM  

King Something: Petit_Merdeux: LiberalWeenie: I haven't read TFA, but as a veteran in the VA health care system, I can say every veteran discharged on good terms gets medical care for everything.

Ah, so I can take my DD-214 to the VA and get healthcare?

More or less, yes.

Just know that there may be some bureaucracy involved. Getting a lawyer is recommended, if you're planning on getting disability benefits.


Wait...

Like, for non-service-connected stuff? I wasn't told anything about having any coverage unless I had at least a 0% disability claim.
 
2018-09-12 08:30:45 PM  

zombietheclown: I've never understood how issues surrounding the VA could be so controversial.
This is literally the easiest thing you could possibly choose to work on.
With all the crap we choose to spend money on, taking care of people who have served this country just seems like a no-brainer.  I can't think of a single reason why anyone would not be tripping over themselves to support getting their facilities up to top-notch levels


Because it costs money. Lots of money. And VA Drs are government employees, not private physicians donating to politicos. So you are asking for Congresscritters to vote to spend revenue better used for a tax cut on money to pay the salaries of government employees who won't have the common decency to donate back to those Critters. The sailors themselves? They aren't megadonors either.
 
2018-09-12 08:31:33 PM  

UsikFark: kudayta: UsikFark: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Most veterans I've met have been at the wrong end of bureaucratic errors. At least two had to scramble to save their GI Bill grant while taking classes because of someone's mistake. It's something to be aware of.

One thing I really don't get is why in the hell republican types are so gung-ho for a government apparatus that trains, feeds, clothes, houses, cares for, and then pays a bunch of young people with no prior professional experience. Sounds like some sort of bullshiat make-work socialism.

Bureaucratic errors are just a fact of life, for everyone.  It sucks, but people do make honest mistakes.  The VA problems we've seen over the years aren't merely boneheaded human errors though.  They are by design, apparently done to maximize the suffering of people that were promised and are entitled to certain benefits.  It should serve as a warning to anyone that wants to sign up today, "these people will not honor their word".

Yeah, but what would that do to recruitment?



Bullet
Rhymefest
Straight outta high school he didn't know what to do 
Wanted to go to college but no money was nothin' new 
Wanted to get away go see the world and do somethin' new 
He got approached in the mall by the army recruit 
Told him "If you wanna go to school we got money too 
Sign up at eighteen you be you when you twenty-two" 
He joined the army airborne got his uniform went to boot camp got some 
Discipline Iraq is where they shipped him 
He's in the mission where bullets flyin' and missin' him 
Wishin' he was a kid again with his family in Michigan 
In the midst of fightin' militiamen, one round took down six of them 
He ain't really a killa though, takin' a lotta risks 
This is what a poor person do for a scholarship
He turned around and got a face full of hollow-tips 
But don't be mad, he died for the flag"


Probably not a lot of as recruitment is the only the super-poor  way out of the blackhole of poverty.
 
2018-09-12 08:32:01 PM  

UsikFark: kudayta: UsikFark: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Most veterans I've met have been at the wrong end of bureaucratic errors. At least two had to scramble to save their GI Bill grant while taking classes because of someone's mistake. It's something to be aware of.

One thing I really don't get is why in the hell republican types are so gung-ho for a government apparatus that trains, feeds, clothes, houses, cares for, and then pays a bunch of young people with no prior professional experience. Sounds like some sort of bullshiat make-work socialism.

Bureaucratic errors are just a fact of life, for everyone.  It sucks, but people do make honest mistakes.  The VA problems we've seen over the years aren't merely boneheaded human errors though.  They are by design, apparently done to maximize the suffering of people that were promised and are entitled to certain benefits.  It should serve as a warning to anyone that wants to sign up today, "these people will not honor their word".

Yeah, but what would that do to recruitment?


If people were rational and paid attention to stuff like this, it would plummet.  At least until they fixed their problems.  Which is the point.  No one should join an organization that consistently fails to keep its word.
 
2018-09-12 08:36:04 PM  
Running a fever and typing don't mix kids.

"Probably not a lot of as recruitment is the only the super-poor  way out of the blackhole of poverty."

What I meant was.

Probably not a lot as recruitment is one of the only ways for the super-poor to escape the blackhole of poverty.
 
2018-09-12 08:42:51 PM  

kudayta: mgshamster: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Because some of us want to live for something greater than ourselves. We don't do it for the benefits, we do it for our country and all the people within.

When was the last time the US military acted in accordance with something greater than an individual's life?  First Gulf War?  World War 2?  How many times does the US government have to send people to die for no good reason before you stop and think?

There are plenty of other careers where you can make a greater contribution to society than the US military. Long gone are the days of the armed forces being used for righteousness.


Since we have no way of knowing what the world political climate will be in the next 2-20 years, you can't say for certain that anyone joining now with aspirations of serving their country for the good of the poeple will be a wasted effort.

Even when I joined, 17 years ago, we didn't know we'd be going to Iraq over a false war. Even when we were going to Iraq, the majority of the country believed it was the right thing. Hell, only one (1) congress person voted against it right after 9/11.

Beyond that, my own service involved peace keeping missions as a part of NATO, helping save the lives of allies and civilians in the Balkans, and while they're not *my* people, they're still people caught in the thralls of war, and I was happy to be of service to them.

That's the thing - those of us who joined hoping to do good in the world don't do so because of the *current* political climate, we do so because we want to serve something greater than ourselves. We serve for the ideals of what our country *should* be and hope for what it could be. We don't do it for some notion of what how we could personally benefit from our service.

That some look at service as a method of personal benefits only goes to show the difference in character between those who wish to serve for something greater and those who do not.
 
2018-09-12 08:50:28 PM  

mgshamster: kudayta: mgshamster: kudayta: To anyone that might be thinking of joining the military:

What the fark is wrong with you?  This story isn't even close to the first time the VA has farked some soldier over.  Why would you think they're going to change when you leave the service?

Because some of us want to live for something greater than ourselves. We don't do it for the benefits, we do it for our country and all the people within.

When was the last time the US military acted in accordance with something greater than an individual's life?  First Gulf War?  World War 2?  How many times does the US government have to send people to die for no good reason before you stop and think?

There are plenty of other careers where you can make a greater contribution to society than the US military. Long gone are the days of the armed forces being used for righteousness.

Since we have no way of knowing what the world political climate will be in the next 2-20 years, you can't say for certain that anyone joining now with aspirations of serving their country for the good of the poeple will be a wasted effort.

Even when I joined, 17 years ago, we didn't know we'd be going to Iraq over a false war. Even when we were going to Iraq, the majority of the country believed it was the right thing. Hell, only one (1) congress person voted against it right after 9/11.

Beyond that, my own service involved peace keeping missions as a part of NATO, helping save the lives of allies and civilians in the Balkans, and while they're not *my* people, they're still people caught in the thralls of war, and I was happy to be of service to them.

That's the thing - those of us who joined hoping to do good in the world don't do so because of the *current* political climate, we do so because we want to serve something greater than ourselves. We serve for the ideals of what our country *should* be and hope for what it could be. We don't do it for some notion of what how we could personally benefit from o ...


Oh, ok, you're not going to answer the questions I posed to you and instead will keep wrapping yourself up in the flag.

I'll put it to you bluntly:  No one that has signed up for the military since Vietnam (and I'm only cutting it off there because the draft was still in effect) has served an interest greater than themselves.  It's all been lies, damned lies and oil.
 
2018-09-12 08:50:49 PM  

thiefofdreams: Running a fever and typing don't mix kids.

"Probably not a lot of as recruitment is the only the super-poor  way out of the blackhole of poverty."

What I meant was.

Probably not a lot as recruitment is one of the only ways for the super-poor to escape the blackhole of poverty.


I know a few people who  told me they joined up because it seemed like the only way to get out of their home state. It's obvious in retrospect, but they left nowhere for a warzone.
 
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